Is Time and existing in the spiritual world?

[Guruvani]

Time has no effect on the soul.

We all know that even though we have been around the material world forever that time has not withered away or erroded the soul.

 

So, in the same way, time does not effect anything or anyone in the spiritual world as the whole realm is spiritual energy.

 

What is time to the eternal soul?

 

Time means nothing to eternity.

It's just a part of the Lord's lila.

[Guruvani]

Here in this verse of Sri Chaitanya Caritamrita we find the term "unlimted time" (ananta samaya — unlimited time)

 

 

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 5.25

 

ei tina loke kṛṣṇa kevala-līlā-maya

nija-gaṇa lañā khele ananta samaya

 

SYNONYMS

ei — these; tina — three; loke — in the locations; kṛṣṇa — Lord Kṛṣṇa; kevala — only; līlā-maya — consisting of pastimes; nija-gaṇa lañā — with His personal associates; khele — He plays; ananta samaya — unlimited time.

 

 

TRANSLATION

Only in these three places [Dvārakā, Mathurā and Gokula] does the all-sporting Lord Kṛṣṇa perform His endless pastimes with His personal associates.

 

[vijay]

 

 

So, I don't see that the original verse says that there is no time.

It says:

 

 

It says certainly "api" (nevertheless) (eternal) time.

 

I don't see the original text as saying that time in the spiritual world is an "eternal now".

 

What it means to me is that time is never lost in the spiritual world, therefore there is no aging or deterioration due to the enervating influence of time as it affects matter.

 

Time does not affect the spiritual energy as it does the material energy.

 

Time is eternal and matter is inferior energy and thus is affected by time.

 

As far as im aware the translation is by Bhaktisidhanta saraswati takhur and still needs to be explained as he's realisation of it is expresssed in the translation. He says

"where there is eternal existence of transcendental time, who is ever present and without past or future and hence is not subject to the quality of passing away even for the space of half a moment."

 

That seems to me to be saying there is no past or future in goloka ?

[Guruvani]

 

As far as im aware the translation is by Bhaktisidhanta saraswati takhur and still needs to be explained as he's realisation of it is expresssed in the translation. He says

"where there is eternal existence of transcendental time, who is ever present and without past or future and hence is not subject to the quality of passing away even for the space of half a moment."

 

That seems to me to be saying there is no past or future in goloka ?

 

from what I heard the Brahma-Samhita was actually translated by Professor Sanyal.

 

Srila Saraswati Thakur wrote the introduction, but to me the style of the book doesn't reflect the usual style of Srila Saraswati Thakur.

[Guruvani]

 

 

That seems to me to be saying there is no past or future in goloka ?

There certainly is no past or future in Goloka as we understand it here in the material world.

 

I can't pretend I have mastered the understanding.

I certainly have not.

I am not a finished professor by any means.

 

I am still trying to understand how time works in the the spiritual world, as without some form of time to "regulate" the pastimes everything would come to a standstill.

 

"Past" means that it is gone and vanished.

There is no "past" in the spiritual world because nothing vanishes into history.

 

But, we know Krishna's pastimes are unlimted and ever-increasing, so there has to be something other than just a circular repitition of pastimes over and over again.

[vijay]

 

There certainly is no past or future in Goloka as we understand it here in the material world.

 

I can't pretend I have mastered the understanding.

I certainly have not.

I am not a finished professor by any means.

 

I am still trying to understand how time works in the the spiritual world, as without some form of time to "regulate" the pastimes everything would come to a standstill.

 

"Past" means that it is gone and vanished.

There is no "past" in the spiritual world because nothing vanishes into history.

 

But, we know Krishna's pastimes are unlimted and ever-increasing, so there has to be something other than just a circular repitition of pastimes over and over again.

 

Its interesting, I guess i'll have to wait until and if i get there. Didnt realize bramha samhita was translated by someone else have you got a link for more info?

[Guruvani]

 

Its interesting, I guess i'll have to wait until and if i get there. Didnt realize bramha samhita was translated by someone else have you got a link for more info?

 

I don't have a link, but when I was with Bhakti Sudhir Maharaja at Sri Chaitanya Saraswata Mandal many years ago I heard from him the he found out at SCSM that the Brahma-Samhita was tranlsated by Professor Sanyal.

 

I saw some talk about it on one of the forums a few years back and there seemed to be several devotees confirming what I heard before.

 

Babhru probably has heard something about that.

If he reads this topic maybe he can shed some light on the matter.

[HerServant]

 

There is no past or future in the spiritual world, only an eternal NOW, but couldn´t one say that this is absolute time, time which cannot be related to in terms of yesterday and tomorrow?

 

And if there is an yesterday and tomorrow, how can it then be only NOW?

 

In the spiritual world Krishna is the Time, but how is it functioning there?

 

 

And what about the space?

 

Here in the material world the space is relative, it can be measured and related, but what about the space in the spiritual world?

 

"Heaven and earth shall pass away but my word shall not pass away" - Mark 13:31

 

We have in contemporary physics the understanding that there are 4 basic aspect to physical phenomenon which have their analogues in vedic "cosmology":

 

Time (kala)

space (desa)

matter (anu)

energy (om)

 

If we consult the vedas and other western theistic scriptures we find that God is:

 

Timeless (eternal)

Omniscient (not bounded by space or dimension)

Omnipresent (non localized -- classical matter (ie particle) )

His Word (Om) which is simultaneously manifested externally and present without external manifestation

 

From the timeless comes time, from the indivisible comes division (atoms) etc.

 

Time in modern physics is relative to light in some context. It cannot be conceptualized without light (and darkness). Darkness is present even in relativistic cosmology (e.g. singularity, black hole, etc.) Time is also understood with respect space. That is, in there has to be a "frame of reference" in scientific analysis.

 

In the vedic literature, it is said that the heavenly planets are the ones closer to the center of the galaxies, having so many suns, that there is no darkness as we understand. Be even still, light must travel from these places in the cosmic manifestation. Hence, these places too are in time.

 

We can expect that in the presence of many suns, light may behave differently that we can understand or predict. For example, read this page on quantum teleportation

 

http://www.its.caltech.edu/~qoptics/teleport.html

 

For example, it may be easy to understand being in 2 places at once if you lived in a world having many (strange) interactions of many high energy light sources.

 

So these are merely some physical possibilities. The Lord of Time is still beyond the physics and time of the center of galaxies.

 

HS and yours

[Guruvani]

 

...past, future and impermanence has no meaning in the personal pastimes of Krishna and His Vishnu expansions because everything is always happening now.

 

 

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/1051552-post1.html

 

That is how Vigraha confuses people.

He writes stuff and tries to pass it off as shastric or siddhanta.

 

This quote you are refering to is the personal writings of Vigraha.

It does not come from the authoritative books of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Vigraha invents stuff and then posts it to confuse people about the philosophy because he is confused because he doen't read the books.

 

He most usually quotes letters to neophytes from the 60s and early 70's before Srila Prabhupada got his books published with the conclusive siddhanta.

 

Even in the books if you don't pay close attention you can get confused because Srila Prabhupada is preaching to different devotees on different levels of understanding and he is trying to give something for everyone from the lower levels to the more advanced levels of understanding the philosophy.

 

 

When it is all said and done Srila Prabhupada gives the higher philosophy, but at the same time he tries to nurture the beginners as well.

 

It's not easy preaching to the whole world and to different levels of devotees all at the same time.

It takes some finesse which I think Srila Prabhupada managed brilliantly.

 

Not an easy task for sure.

I can't imagine of anyone else that could have done it as expertly as Srila Prabhupada.