Did Krishna left Bhagavad-gita to be commented?

[Kulapavana]

Btw. This story takes nothing away from the value of the McMillan Gita. Quite the contrary - it shows Prabhupada's priorities and lack of attachment to his own version of Gita's verses. Radhakrishnan's translations were actually quite good an scholarly - Prabhupada used these translations openly in his early lectures on the Gita in our first temples.

[Guruvani]

 

Btw. This story takes nothing away from the value of the McMillan Gita. Quite the contrary - it shows Prabhupada's priorities and lack of attachment to his own version of Gita's verses. Radhakrishnan's translations were actually quite good an scholarly - Prabhupada used these translations openly in his early lectures on the Gita in our first temples.

 

Those BBT editors need to keep their mouths shut about the private matters of editing and publishing the Bhagavad-gita As It Is.

 

They are shedding a bad light on the Bhagavad-Gita At It Is.

It will permanently be a stain on the book.

 

These fools are commiting offense with this foolishness.

 

They are doing it to make excuses why it is OK if they tamper with the books of Srila Prabhupada.

 

No matter, they have no excuse to tamper with the books that Srila Prabhupada approved.

 

Srila Prabhupada might have approved of Dr. Radhakrishnan's version, but he never approved of Jayadvaita's version.

[Kulapavana]

 

Srila Prabhupada might have approved of Dr. Radhakrishnan's version, but he never approved of Jayadvaita's version.

 

That is a very valid point

[ksbh]

While I agree that some things are best left alone, you are simply exaggerating the effect.

 

Nothing that Jayadvaita Maharaja does is "butchering the reputation of Bhagavad-Gita As It Is". It is a fantastic masterpiece by Srila Prabhupada which will continue to be the best selling version of the Bhagavad Gita in the Western world.

 

 

 

Whatever happened in the editing and publishing of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is, Jayadvaita Swami shouldn't be going around blabbing something based on a couple of sentences of Hayagriva who is not around anymore to confirm or deny anything.

The internal matters of what occured in the publishing of the Gita should be kept internal and NOT blabbed all over the internet so Jayadvaita Swami can cover his ass for tampering with the authorized version of Bhagavad-Gita As It Is.

 

At this point the whole issue hinges on about two sentences written by a deceased devotee.

A cloud of suspicion and doubt should not be cast over the Bhagavad-gita As It Is for the purposes of defending the ego of Jayadvaita Swami.

 

Internal affairs between the editors and Srila Prabhupada should not be broadcast openly when neither Srila Prabhupada nor Hayagriva are here to confirm or deny anything.

 

Jayadvaita Swami is butchering the reputation of Bhagavad-Gita As It Is in an attempt to defend his own ego and pride.

 

I personally think it is disgusting.

[suchandra]

 

While I agree that some things are best left alone, you are simply exaggerating the effect.

 

 

It is as such that the mayavada camp feels victorious - very victorious. While present Vaishnava family is fully occupied, working to full capacity to argue whether to reject or accept Prabhupada's position as current link of the Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya-Sampradaya and what his literal lifework concerns, the mayavadis flood the internet with such propaganda and even remain undetected by the "bussy" Vaishnavas:

 

http://www.dvaita.org/shaastra/gita/prabhupada_review.shtml

 

Let's remember what is stated in Prabhupada's pranam mantra: namas te sarasvati deve gaura vani pracarine nirvisesa sunyavadi pasccatya desa tarine. Our respectful obeisances unto you, O servant of Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message of Gaurasundara and delivering the Western countries which are filled with impersonalism and voidism.

 

Filled with impersonalism and voidism, will this ever change?

[ksbh]

Yes, so let's stop wasting time arguing amongst ourselves and work to defeat the mayavada philosophers who distract people and draw them away from Krishna.

 

 

It is as such that the mayavada camp feels victorious - very victorious. While present Vaishnava family is fully occupied, working to full capacity to argue wether to reject or accept Prabhupada's position as current link of the Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya-Sampradaya and what his literal lifework concerns, the mayavadis flood the internet with such propaganda and even remain undetected by the "bussy" Vaishnavas:

 

http://www.dvaita.org/shaastra/gita/prabhupada_review.shtml

 

Let's remember what is stated in Prabhupada's pranam mantra: namas te sarasvati deve gaura vani pracarine nirvisesa sunyavadi pasccatya desa tarine. Our respectful obeisances unto you, O servant of Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message of Gaurasundara and delivering the Western countries which are filled with impersonalism and voidism.

 

Filled with impersonalism and voidism, will this ever change?

[suchandra]

 

Yes, so let's stop wasting time arguing amongst ourselves and work to defeat the mayavada philosophers who distract people and draw them away from Krishna.

 

Thanks so much transient Vaishnavi!

[ksbh]

Please also accept my humble obeisances prabhu.

 

I'm sometimes staggered to see the lengthy posts that just have 1 purpose ... to defeat the opposing Vaisnava when the rampant mayavadis and foolish fanatic Christians are busy painting using their conversion brush!

 

 

Thanks so much transient Vaishnavi!

[suchandra]

 

Please also accept my humble obeisances prabhu.

 

I'm sometimes staggered to see the lengthy posts that just have 1 purpose ... to defeat the opposing Vaisnava when the rampant mayavadis and foolish fanatic Christians are busy painting using their conversion brush!

 

In deed, heavy equipment is needed, something like Caitanya Caran das'

 

THE TRAGEDY OF SELF-DESTRUCTION

 

 

 

THE SPIRITUAL SCIENTIST

 

 

 

A Cyber Magazine for Those Who Think

 

 

 

 

The trout is caught by the fisherman’s lure, the mouse by cheese. A tragic irony of the struggle for existence is that living beings areoften destroyed by what they desire. But at least the fish and the mouse have excuses: the bait and the cheese look like sustenance. Also the fish and the mouse do not know in advance that they will be trapped. Humans seldom have either of these excuses. The temptations that wreck their lives are quite often pure indulgences that are known to be dangerous. For example, no one has to smoke for survival and almost all smokers are aware that smoking is dangerous.

 

 

 

 

TRAGICALLY TRAPPED

 

 

 

 

 

Consider the following World Health Organization

 

 

 

 

statistics:

 

 

• Tobacco kills nearly 10,000 people worldwide every day.
  
• By 2020 it is predicted that tobacco use will cause over 12% of all deaths

 

• globally. This is more deaths worldwide than HIV, tuberculosis, maternalmortality, motor vehicle accidents, suicide and homicide combined.

 

 

 

• Half of those who start smoking in adolescence will die in middle age,

 

• 
  
  

losing around 22 years of normal life expectancy.

 

 

 

 

Add the facts that an average cigarette contains 401 poisons

 

and 43 cancer-causing chemicals and that there are around 1.1 billion smokers in

the world (about one-third of the global population aged 15 and over) and we

have quite a sobering picture of the world around us. The statistics about other

self-destructive behavioral patterns – alcoholism, substance abuse and suicide -

are equally, if not more, alarming. And even among so-called normal people,

practically everyone is victimized by some form of self-destructive behavioral

pattern - unwarranted expression of anger that turn out to be disastrous,

unintentional use of caustic words that break hearts and ruin lives and so on.

 

 

 

 

 

A question naturally arises: how does an intelligent human

 

 

being embark on such a destructive course? Most people know that when they

start, say, smoking, they are treading into a danger zone. But the media, the

 

friends circle, the peddlers persuade them to experiment just once. Seeking a

break from the humdrum daily life with its inane pleasures, they acquiesce. The

impression of instant pleasure gets embedded in their mind and in future

whenever they face a reversal, they tend to seek immediate relief through

smoking. Every successive experience of smoking reinforces the earlier

impressions, strengthens the tendency to seek momentary relief and weakens the

voice of intelligence and conscience. Till smoking becomes an irresistible

demand, a compulsive need, an addictive habit. They are by then helpless

victims, driven again and again towards smoking like a moth attracted towards

fire.

 

 

 

 

CURRENT SOLUTIONS

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let us now analyze some of the methods currently used for

 

 

 

 

 

 

de-addiction:

 

 

 

 

Knowledge

 

 

 

: It would seem that if

 

 

 

 

people knew about the dangers involved, that would deter them from indulgence.

Sometimes. But not generally. Sometimes knowledge has the opposite effect. For

example, after governmental regulations made it mandatory to display,

“Cigarette smoking is injurious to health” on every cigarette ad and pack,

cigarette sales increased; the warning tended to evoke a dare-devilish spirit

in smokers.

 

 

 

 

 

Emotional Support

 

 

 

: Often people turn

 

 

 

 

to addictions when they are emotionally let down or betrayed by their loved

ones. Also adolescents who have not been emotionally cared for tend to be more

susceptible to addictions. So providing emotional support through personal

counseling is thought of as a solution. But this often leads to the addicts

becoming chronically dependent on their counselor. In the fast-paced modern

lifestyle few people can invest the time and energy to provide intensive

emotional support consistently. Seeking professional guidance entails

prohibitive costs. Moreover psychologists and psychiatrists often become so

harassed by calls for help from distressed patients at unearthly hours that

they themselves sometimes end up in need of counseling.

 

 

 

 

Sublimation

 

 

 

: Sublimation involves

 

 

 

 

replacing a gross physical drive with a more refined substitute. For example,

an alcoholic might try to seek refuge in music instead of alcohol. But this

can work only if he has a strong liking for music and if his addiction to

alcohol is not overpowering. Another problem is that, due to recent mental

impressions of indulgence in alcohol, that urge generally appears far more

attractive than its substitute.

 

 

 

 

Willpower

 

 

 

: Seeing the physical and

 

 

 

 

emotional pain that he is inflicting upon himself and his loved ones, an

addict may sometimes by sheer determination decide to give up his perverted

habit. Unfortunately few people are able to muster the necessary willpower.

Even if successful, they face the grim prospect of an entire lifetime of

constant inner struggle with the fear of succumbing at any moment. And failure

often brings with it intolerable feelings of guilt, making living itself an

agony.

 

 

 

 

Religion

 

 

 

: Statistical surveys have

 

 

 

 

shown that the religiously committed are less likely to succumb to seeking

perverted pleasures. Adopting religious principles rigorously also sometimes

helps addicts to free themselves. Dr Patrick Glynn writes in his book God:

The Evidence, “It is difficult to find a more consistent correlative of

mental health, or a better insurance against self-destructive behaviors, than

a strong religious faith.”

 

 

 

 

While each of these methods has had some small success,

 

 

 

humanity at large is mostly in darkness as regards a clear understanding about

the factors that impel self-destructive behavior and the means to permanently

rectify such behavior. Let us now consider the Vedic perspective about

self-destruction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

THE VEDIC PARADIGM

 

 

In the Bhagavad-gita (3.36), Arjuna asks Lord Krishna, “By what

 

 

 

 

is one impelled to sinful acts, even unwillingly, as if engaged by force?” Lord

Krishna replies, “It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the

mode of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring

sinful enemy of this world.”

 

 

 

 

 

The background of this dialogue is as follows. The fundamental

 

 

 

teaching of the Bhagavad-gita is that the source of life in the material body,

the actual self, is a non-material particle of spirit, known as the atman

or the soul. The essential need of the soul is to love and be loved and to

experience unbounded happiness through loving exchange. Being spiritual by

constitution, the soul belongs to a higher dimensional milieu, the spiritual

world. There the loving propensity of the soul finds complete fulfillment in the

supremely lovable all-attractive person, who personally reciprocates with his

love. In fact, the Vedic texts state: eko bahusyam. The Supreme has

expanded into infinite subordinates for the purpose of loving reciprocation. The

Vedanta Sutra explains: raso vai sah. The Supreme is the reservoir of all

divine loving emotions. The Shrimad Bhagavatam confirms that this Supreme Person

is all-attractive and is therefore best known by the name Krishna, which means

all-attractive in Sanskrit. In the spiritual world Krishna is the pivot of all

relationships and the soul continually relishes ever-intensifying and

ever-expanding ecstasies of love in relationship with Him there.

 

 

 

 

 

Love necessitates freedom; only when the object of love freely

 

 

 

chooses to reciprocate one’s love does the experience of love becomes truly

satisfying and fulfilling. The soul is therefore endowed with a minute free will

to enable him to experience the joy of loving the Supreme Person Krishna. But

when the soul misuses his free will and becomes causelessly unwilling to love

Krishna, he has to find a substitute in whom to repose his loving propensity. Of

course by definition there can be no substitute for the Supreme and by

constitution the soul cannot find happiness in loving anyone other than the

Supreme. But for those souls who insist on making that attempt, the world of

matter (where all of us currently reside) provides the necessary arrangement for

experimentation and rectification.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THE ENEMY WITHIN

 

As soon as the soul comes to the material world, his love for

Krishna becomes perverted into lust. Lust is a formidable illusory force that

offers the soul various surrogate objects of love to experiment with. Lust

creates and perpetuates the misidentification of the soul with the material body

that he is given. Lust causes within all living beings the overpowering drive

for gross sexual enjoyment in specific, and all forms of material enjoyment in

general.

 

Modern civilization with its media, social environment, culture

and overall values aggravates lust disproportionately. Especially the celluloid

promises of unending sexual bliss provoke wild erotic fantasies. But the actual

experience of sexual enjoyment is heartbreakingly brief; dreams cherished for

years vanish within moments. Though what people experience is so pathetically

little as compared to the hype, the media blitz goads them on. Sexual enjoyment,

especially illicit, is a complicated affair; it involves money, time, intense

emotions, interpersonal relationship dynamics, risk for prestige and so on. And

the attempt for such enjoyment, even if somehow successful, leaves one feeling

disappointed and cheated - and craving for more. And if unsuccessful it creates

great anger. Either way the victims are soon so enslaved by lust that the more

they try, the more they get frustrated, and yet the more they become impelled to

keep trying. Eventually the accumulated enormous frustration makes instant

relief a desperate necessity. Such people easily fall prey to the lure of quick

pleasure offered by addictions.

 

Lust is thus the internal enemy, which causes all

self-destructive behavioral patterns. The Gita (18.39) describes vividly the

nature of all perverted pleasures: they appear to be like nectar at first but

poison at the end. Srila Prabhupada comments, “While one enjoys sense

gratification, it may be that there is some feeling of happiness, but actually

that so-called feeling of happiness is the ultimate enemy of the sense

enjoyer.”

 

Lust is present in everyone in varying degrees. That is why

everyone, no matter how materially successful he may be, has some tendencies

towards self-destructive behavior. People generally become concerned about such

tendencies only when it exceeds socially acceptable limits. But actually lust

throttles the ability of everyone to make meaningful contributions toward

society and even towards their own future; the difference is only in degree.

From the spiritual point of view, lust is inherently self-destructive; it strips

the soul of the unlimited spiritual happiness that is his birthright and forces

him to labor for paltry material sensations of pleasure that can never satisfy

his immortal longing.

 

 

 

THE SUPREME CONQUEST

 

 

Lust being a perversion of our original, essential nature,

cannot possibly be annihilated, suppressed, repressed or even sublimated. But it

can be reverted to its original nature by redirecting our loving propensity back

to Krishna through the scientific process of devotional service. Action on the

spiritual platform is what Lord Krishna recommends to Arjuna as the key to

overcoming lust, “Therefore knowing oneself to be transcendental to the material

senses, mind and intelligence, O mighty-armed Arjuna, one should steady the mind

by deliberate spiritual intelligence (Krishna consciousness) and thus – by

spiritual strength – conquer this insatiable enemy known as lust.”

(Bhagavad-gita 3.43) The channeling of consciousness from matter back to Krishna

is most easily and effectively executed through the medium of divine sound. The

Supreme Person Krishna being omnipotent is fully present in His Holy Names.

Chanting of the Holy Names therefore connects one immediately with Krishna, who

is the supreme pleasure principle. Regular meditation on the Holy Names enables

one to experience happiness streaming down from the spiritual dimension. This

spiritual pleasure is so satisfying that it soon frees one from the craving for

perverted mundane pleasure like drugs, alcohol etc.

 

Millions of people all over the world have experienced the

purifying potency of the Holy Names of God. During the period of the

counterculture in the US in 1960s and 1970s, Srila Prabhupada propagated the

congregational chanting of the Holy Names and saved thousands of young people

from a condemned life of drug addiction. All over the globe ISKCON devotees who

practice mantra meditation – chanting of the maha mantra Hare Krishna Hare

Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare -

everyday for two hours are easily able to eschew intoxication (of all forms),

gambling, meat-eating and illicit sex, which are the primary self-destructive

activities impelled by lust. Ability to follow these four regulative principles

is not necessary to begin chanting, but as these four activities greatly obscure

the original consciousness of the soul, abstaining from them helps to accelerate

the process of purification. While many people in the modern times are so

captivated and enslaved by lust that they consider life without these activities

an impossibility, devotees lead lives that are natural, peaceful, satisfying,

meaningful and constructive, protected as they are by their mantra

meditation.

 

But the benefits of chanting do not stop with freedom from

addiction, nor is chanting meant only for those victimized by self-destructive

behavioral patterns. Chanting the Holy Names of God is a universal, time-tested,

non-sectarian method of bringing about the blossoming of consciousness to its

highest bloom of pure love for God and all living beings. Chanting frees one

from all selfish desires, which throttle the flow of the fullness of life. It

enables one to experience within oneself continuous happiness, which is

absolutely independent of the state of the body and the external world. Chanting

thus heralds the advent of a life of selfless spiritual service to God and all

His children. This selflessness within individuals alone can form the basis of

lasting world peace and harmony. Srila Prabhupada succinctly summarizes,

“Without the awakening of divine consciousness within the individual, there is

no use of crying for world peace.”

 

The world-famous Beatle, late George Harrison, a diligent

lifelong practitioner of mantra meditation, sings:

 

If you open up your heart,

You will know what I mean

We’ve been polluted so long

But here’s a way for you to get clean

By chanting the name of the Lord and

You’ll be free

The Lord is awaiting on you all to awaken

And see.

 

<DIR></DIR>- ‘Awaiting On You All’

from the album ‘All Things Must Pass’

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ksbh]

Great article prabhu. Smoking is for fools because it kills and they know it. Who can be more foolish than a smoker?

 

I was a fool for a few years, being addicted to smoking. Thankfully, I was able to give it up and Vaisnava association played a huge role in my giving up smoking.

 

 

 

In deed, heavy equipment is needed, something like Caitanya Caran das'

 

THE TRAGEDY OF SELF-DESTRUCTION

 

 

 

THE SPIRITUAL SCIENTIST

 

 

 

A Cyber Magazine for Those Who Think

 

 

 

 

The trout is caught by the fisherman’s lure, the mouse by cheese. A tragic irony of the struggle for existence is that living beings areoften destroyed by what they desire. But at least the fish and the mouse have excuses: the bait and the cheese look like sustenance. Also the fish and the mouse do not know in advance that they will be trapped. Humans seldom have either of these excuses. The temptations that wreck their lives are quite often pure indulgences that are known to be dangerous. For example, no one has to smoke for survival and almost all smokers are aware that smoking is dangerous.

 

 

 

 

TRAGICALLY TRAPPED

 

 

 

 

 

Consider the following World Health Organization

 

 

 

 

statistics:

 

 

• Tobacco kills nearly 10,000 people worldwide every day.
  
• By 2020 it is predicted that tobacco use will cause over 12% of all deaths

 

 

• globally. This is more deaths worldwide than HIV, tuberculosis, maternalmortality, motor vehicle accidents, suicide and homicide combined.

 

• Half of those who start smoking in adolescence will die in middle age,

 

•  

   

  losing around 22 years of normal life expectancy.

  
  
  

 

 

Add the facts that an average cigarette contains 401 poisons

 

 

 

and 43 cancer-causing chemicals and that there are around 1.1 billion smokers in

the world (about one-third of the global population aged 15 and over) and we

have quite a sobering picture of the world around us. The statistics about other

self-destructive behavioral patterns – alcoholism, substance abuse and suicide -

are equally, if not more, alarming. And even among so-called normal people,

practically everyone is victimized by some form of self-destructive behavioral

pattern - unwarranted expression of anger that turn out to be disastrous,

unintentional use of caustic words that break hearts and ruin lives and so on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A question naturally arises: how does an intelligent human

 

 

being embark on such a destructive course? Most people know that when they

start, say, smoking, they are treading into a danger zone. But the media, the

 

friends circle, the peddlers persuade them to experiment just once. Seeking a

break from the humdrum daily life with its inane pleasures, they acquiesce. The

impression of instant pleasure gets embedded in their mind and in future

whenever they face a reversal, they tend to seek immediate relief through

smoking. Every successive experience of smoking reinforces the earlier

impressions, strengthens the tendency to seek momentary relief and weakens the

voice of intelligence and conscience. Till smoking becomes an irresistible

demand, a compulsive need, an addictive habit. They are by then helpless

victims, driven again and again towards smoking like a moth attracted towards

fire.

 

 

 

 

CURRENT SOLUTIONS

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let us now analyze some of the methods currently used for

 

 

 

 

 

 

de-addiction:

 

 

 

 

Knowledge

 

 

 

: It would seem that if

 

 

 

 

 

people knew about the dangers involved, that would deter them from indulgence.

 

 

Sometimes. But not generally. Sometimes knowledge has the opposite effect. For

example, after governmental regulations made it mandatory to display,

“Cigarette smoking is injurious to health” on every cigarette ad and pack,

cigarette sales increased; the warning tended to evoke a dare-devilish spirit

in smokers.

 

 

 

 

 

Emotional Support

 

 

 

: Often people turn

 

 

 

 

 

to addictions when they are emotionally let down or betrayed by their loved

 

 

ones. Also adolescents who have not been emotionally cared for tend to be more

susceptible to addictions. So providing emotional support through personal

counseling is thought of as a solution. But this often leads to the addicts

becoming chronically dependent on their counselor. In the fast-paced modern

lifestyle few people can invest the time and energy to provide intensive

emotional support consistently. Seeking professional guidance entails

prohibitive costs. Moreover psychologists and psychiatrists often become so

harassed by calls for help from distressed patients at unearthly hours that

they themselves sometimes end up in need of counseling.

 

 

 

 

Sublimation

 

 

 

: Sublimation involves

 

 

 

 

 

replacing a gross physical drive with a more refined substitute. For example,

 

 

an alcoholic might try to seek refuge in music instead of alcohol. But this

can work only if he has a strong liking for music and if his addiction to

alcohol is not overpowering. Another problem is that, due to recent mental

impressions of indulgence in alcohol, that urge generally appears far more

attractive than its substitute.

 

 

 

 

Willpower

 

 

 

: Seeing the physical and

 

 

 

 

 

emotional pain that he is inflicting upon himself and his loved ones, an

 

 

addict may sometimes by sheer determination decide to give up his perverted

habit. Unfortunately few people are able to muster the necessary willpower.

Even if successful, they face the grim prospect of an entire lifetime of

constant inner struggle with the fear of succumbing at any moment. And failure

often brings with it intolerable feelings of guilt, making living itself an

agony.

 

 

 

 

Religion

 

 

 

: Statistical surveys have

 

 

 

 

 

shown that the religiously committed are less likely to succumb to seeking

 

 

perverted pleasures. Adopting religious principles rigorously also sometimes

helps addicts to free themselves. Dr Patrick Glynn writes in his book God:

The Evidence, “It is difficult to find a more consistent correlative of

mental health, or a better insurance against self-destructive behaviors, than

a strong religious faith.”

 

 

 

 

While each of these methods has had some small success,

 

 

 

humanity at large is mostly in darkness as regards a clear understanding about

 

 

the factors that impel self-destructive behavior and the means to permanently

rectify such behavior. Let us now consider the Vedic perspective about

self-destruction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

THE VEDIC PARADIGM

 

 

 

 

 

In the Bhagavad-gita (3.36), Arjuna asks Lord Krishna, “By what

 

 

 

 

 

 

is one impelled to sinful acts, even unwillingly, as if engaged by force?” Lord

Krishna replies, “It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the

mode of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring

sinful enemy of this world.”

 

 

 

 

 

The background of this dialogue is as follows. The fundamental

 

 

 

teaching of the Bhagavad-gita is that the source of life in the material body,

the actual self, is a non-material particle of spirit, known as the atman

or the soul. The essential need of the soul is to love and be loved and to

experience unbounded happiness through loving exchange. Being spiritual by

constitution, the soul belongs to a higher dimensional milieu, the spiritual

world. There the loving propensity of the soul finds complete fulfillment in the

supremely lovable all-attractive person, who personally reciprocates with his

love. In fact, the Vedic texts state: eko bahusyam. The Supreme has

expanded into infinite subordinates for the purpose of loving reciprocation. The

Vedanta Sutra explains: raso vai sah. The Supreme is the reservoir of all

divine loving emotions. The Shrimad Bhagavatam confirms that this Supreme Person

is all-attractive and is therefore best known by the name Krishna, which means

all-attractive in Sanskrit. In the spiritual world Krishna is the pivot of all

relationships and the soul continually relishes ever-intensifying and

ever-expanding ecstasies of love in relationship with Him there.

 

 

 

 

 

Love necessitates freedom; only when the object of love freely

 

 

 

chooses to reciprocate one’s love does the experience of love becomes truly

satisfying and fulfilling. The soul is therefore endowed with a minute free will

to enable him to experience the joy of loving the Supreme Person Krishna. But

when the soul misuses his free will and becomes causelessly unwilling to love

Krishna, he has to find a substitute in whom to repose his loving propensity. Of

course by definition there can be no substitute for the Supreme and by

constitution the soul cannot find happiness in loving anyone other than the

Supreme. But for those souls who insist on making that attempt, the world of

matter (where all of us currently reside) provides the necessary arrangement for

experimentation and rectification.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THE ENEMY WITHIN

 

 

As soon as the soul comes to the material world, his love for

 

 

 

 

Krishna becomes perverted into lust. Lust is a formidable illusory force that

offers the soul various surrogate objects of love to experiment with. Lust

creates and perpetuates the misidentification of the soul with the material body

that he is given. Lust causes within all living beings the overpowering drive

for gross sexual enjoyment in specific, and all forms of material enjoyment in

general.

 

 

 

 

 

Modern civilization with its media, social environment, culture

 

 

 

and overall values aggravates lust disproportionately. Especially the celluloid

promises of unending sexual bliss provoke wild erotic fantasies. But the actual

experience of sexual enjoyment is heartbreakingly brief; dreams cherished for

years vanish within moments. Though what people experience is so pathetically

little as compared to the hype, the media blitz goads them on. Sexual enjoyment,

especially illicit, is a complicated affair; it involves money, time, intense

emotions, interpersonal relationship dynamics, risk for prestige and so on. And

the attempt for such enjoyment, even if somehow successful, leaves one feeling

disappointed and cheated - and craving for more. And if unsuccessful it creates

great anger. Either way the victims are soon so enslaved by lust that the more

they try, the more they get frustrated, and yet the more they become impelled to

keep trying. Eventually the accumulated enormous frustration makes instant

relief a desperate necessity. Such people easily fall prey to the lure of quick

pleasure offered by addictions.

 

 

 

 

 

Lust is thus the internal enemy, which causes all

 

 

 

self-destructive behavioral patterns. The Gita (18.39) describes vividly the

nature of all perverted pleasures: they appear to be like nectar at first but

poison at the end. Srila Prabhupada comments, “While one enjoys sense

gratification, it may be that there is some feeling of happiness, but actually

that so-called feeling of happiness is the ultimate enemy of the sense

enjoyer.”

 

 

 

 

 

Lust is present in everyone in varying degrees. That is why

 

 

 

everyone, no matter how materially successful he may be, has some tendencies

towards self-destructive behavior. People generally become concerned about such

tendencies only when it exceeds socially acceptable limits. But actually lust

throttles the ability of everyone to make meaningful contributions toward

society and even towards their own future; the difference is only in degree.

From the spiritual point of view, lust is inherently self-destructive; it strips

the soul of the unlimited spiritual happiness that is his birthright and forces

him to labor for paltry material sensations of pleasure that can never satisfy

his immortal longing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THE SUPREME CONQUEST

 

Lust being a perversion of our original, essential nature,

cannot possibly be annihilated, suppressed, repressed or even sublimated. But it

can be reverted to its original nature by redirecting our loving propensity back

to Krishna through the scientific process of devotional service. Action on the

spiritual platform is what Lord Krishna recommends to Arjuna as the key to

overcoming lust, “Therefore knowing oneself to be transcendental to the material

senses, mind and intelligence, O mighty-armed Arjuna, one should steady the mind

by deliberate spiritual intelligence (Krishna consciousness) and thus – by

spiritual strength – conquer this insatiable enemy known as lust.”

(Bhagavad-gita 3.43) The channeling of consciousness from matter back to Krishna

is most easily and effectively executed through the medium of divine sound. The

Supreme Person Krishna being omnipotent is fully present in His Holy Names.

Chanting of the Holy Names therefore connects one immediately with Krishna, who

is the supreme pleasure principle. Regular meditation on the Holy Names enables

one to experience happiness streaming down from the spiritual dimension. This

spiritual pleasure is so satisfying that it soon frees one from the craving for

perverted mundane pleasure like drugs, alcohol etc.

 

Millions of people all over the world have experienced the

purifying potency of the Holy Names of God. During the period of the

counterculture in the US in 1960s and 1970s, Srila Prabhupada propagated the

congregational chanting of the Holy Names and saved thousands of young people

from a condemned life of drug addiction. All over the globe ISKCON devotees who

practice mantra meditation – chanting of the maha mantra Hare Krishna Hare

Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare -

everyday for two hours are easily able to eschew intoxication (of all forms),

gambling, meat-eating and illicit sex, which are the primary self-destructive

activities impelled by lust. Ability to follow these four regulative principles

is not necessary to begin chanting, but as these four activities greatly obscure

the original consciousness of the soul, abstaining from them helps to accelerate

the process of purification. While many people in the modern times are so

captivated and enslaved by lust that they consider life without these activities

an impossibility, devotees lead lives that are natural, peaceful, satisfying,

meaningful and constructive, protected as they are by their mantra

meditation.

 

But the benefits of chanting do not stop with freedom from

addiction, nor is chanting meant only for those victimized by self-destructive

behavioral patterns. Chanting the Holy Names of God is a universal, time-tested,

non-sectarian method of bringing about the blossoming of consciousness to its

highest bloom of pure love for God and all living beings. Chanting frees one

from all selfish desires, which throttle the flow of the fullness of life. It

enables one to experience within oneself continuous happiness, which is

absolutely independent of the state of the body and the external world. Chanting

thus heralds the advent of a life of selfless spiritual service to God and all

His children. This selflessness within individuals alone can form the basis of

lasting world peace and harmony. Srila Prabhupada succinctly summarizes,

“Without the awakening of divine consciousness within the individual, there is

no use of crying for world peace.”

 

The world-famous Beatle, late George Harrison, a diligent

lifelong practitioner of mantra meditation, sings:

 

If you open up your heart,

You will know what I mean

We’ve been polluted so long

But here’s a way for you to get clean

By chanting the name of the Lord and

You’ll be free

The Lord is awaiting on you all to awaken

And see.

 

 

<DIR></DIR>- ‘Awaiting On You All’

from the album ‘All Things Must Pass’

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guruvani]

I am beside meself how this long article or dissertation found itself a home on this thread.

 

this stuff really clogs up a topic and is a big distraction from the topic at hand.

 

it probably deserves it's own thread.

[suchandra]

 

I am beside meself how this long article or dissertation found itself a home on this thread.

 

this stuff really clogs up a topic and is a big distraction from the topic at hand.

 

it probably deserves it's own thread.

Well, I expected you write a reply to the challenge, see below, "dissertation" above is a demonstration how the teachings of Bhagavad-gita can uproot addictive behaviour for material illusion. Plaintiffs can show that global US tobacco/coffee companies manipulated nicotine/caffeine levels in their products in an attempt to foster addiction in their global consumers. Why is such a post ("In the Bhagavad-gita (3.36), Arjuna asks Lord Krishna, “By what is one impelled to sinful acts, even unwillingly, as if engaged by force?”)

 

 

clogging a topic?

 

 

http://www.dvaita.org/shaastra/gita/prabhupada_review.shtml

"Bhagavad Gita As It Is" -- A Review

 

In the Upanishads, the sacred Vedanta texts of yore, one finds in more than one place the well known metaphor of a blind person leading other blind people astray, to illustrate what happens when an incompetent, styling himself a learned man, attempts to teach others what he knows not himself. This metaphor is very apt to describe Prabhupada's translation and purport for the Bhagavad Gita. For while he claims that his translation and purports follow a "disciplic succession" (see bottom of Prabhupada's Introduction) of traditional commentaries and understanding of the work deriving from the dualistic school of Vedanta of Madhva (number 5 on Prabhupada's claimed list of succession), they in fact show a great divergence and opposition to the traditional understanding found in the latter's works.

In fact, given the evidence, it is far more correct to say that Prabhupada's interpretations derive from Shankara's than from Madhva's. For instance, in explaining XI-47, Shankara clearly says `tvadanyena tvattaH anyena kenachit.h na dR^ishhTapUrvam.h' -- none other than you had ever seen this (Universal Form of Krishna) before.

Prabhupada follows suit by saying, in translation: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, happily have I shown you, by My internal potency, this supreme universal form within the material world. No one before you has ever seen this primal form, unlimited and full of glaring effulgence."

Here's what Madhva says in explaining XI-47 in the gItA-tAtparya: there he anticipates the mistaken exposition, and explains the correct interpretation of `tvad.h anyena na dR^ishhTapUrvam.h' --

 

mayA prasannena tavA.arjunedaM |

rUpaM paraM darshitamAtmayogAt.h |

tejomayaM vishvamanantamAdyam.h |

yanme tvadanyena na dR^ishhTapUrvam.h || 47 ||

 

tAtparya --

`vishvanAmA sa bhagavAn.h yataH pUrNaguNaH' iti pAdme |

`tvadanyena na dR^ishhTapUrvaM' ityanena tenaivendrasharIreNa

dR^ishhTamiti j~nAyate | tvadanyeneti tvadavarApexayA |

tairapi tadvanna dR^ishhTamityeva |

`vishvarUpaM prathamato brahmA.apashyachchaturmukhaH |

tachchhatAMshena rudrastu tachchhatAMshena vAsavaH |

yathendreNa purA dR^ishhTumapashyat.h so.arjuno.api san.h |

tadanye kramayogena tachchhatAMshAdidarshanaH ||'

-- iti brahmANDe || 47 ||

 

"He, the Lord, is called Vishva, for being of complete attributes,"

says the Padma. By `tvadanyena na dR^ishhTapUrvaM' is

indicated the fact that you (Arjuna) alone, in the body of Indra,

had seen it before. By `tvadanyena', people lower than you are

indicated. That they did not see as you saw, thus only.

"The vishva-rUpa was first seen by the Chaturmukha-Brahma;

a hundredth of that by Rudra, and a hundredth of that by the

deities; as had been seen by Indra previously, so too was seen by

Arjuna; other than he, according to worth, was seen a hundredth,

and so forth," says the Brahmanda. Therefore, Madhva's reading of `tvadanyena na dR^ishhTapUrvaM' is to say, "they, the people less than you in worth, did not see as you did." This is stated by Sri Raghavendra as:

tvadanyena na dR^ishhTapUrvamityasya tvatto.adhamairadR^ishhTa-

pUrvamityarthaH | tairapi svayogyatAnurodhena dR^ishhTatve.api

arjunavanna dR^ishhTamityadR^ishhTatvoktiH | tathA tvayA tu

indrasharIreNa dR^ishhTapUrvamityapi tvadanyeneti visheshhaNAllabhyate |

 

By saying `tvadanyena na dR^ishhTapUrvaM', that it had never been

seen by people lower than you in worth, thus is the meaning. While

even such people had seen according to their worth, they had not

seen as Arjuna did (i.e., did not have the same grasp), so

[by his standard], non-sight is stated. Also, by you (Arjuna), this

had been seen previously through the body of Indra -- for that reason,

too, "none other than you," such a qualification applies. Therefore, Madhva says, as clarified by his commentator, that "none other than you had seen this" means "none who were less than you ever saw as you did," and also that "it was none other than you, who saw this previously [as Indra]." While followers of Prabhupada may have any number of objections against this interpretation, it is important to remember that our purpose here is only to establish an irreconcilable difference in this matter between Madhva and Prabhupada, and that is achieved. Egregious as Prabhupada's error in this instance is, it is not the only one; his explanation of the Bhâgavata's `<t>kR^ishhNastu bhagavAn.h svayam.h'</t> is radically opposed to what Madhva has said in his commentary on Bhagavad Gita X-41 and elsewhere. It is clear that Prabhupada lied through his teeth in claiming that his purports followed a "disciplic succession" as claimed.

In addition, Prabhupada's lack of understanding of even the most basic facts of science and astronomy is manifest, so much so that one wonders if he ever passed high school. Consider for instance what he says under X-21: "There are fifty varieties of winds blowing in space," and later, "It appears from this verse that the moon is one of the stars; therefore the stars that twinkle in the sky also reflect the light of the sun. The theory that there are many suns within the universe is not accepted by Vedic literature. The sun is one, and as by the reflection of the sun the moon illuminates, so also do the stars. Since Bhagavad-gita indicates herein that the moon is one of the stars, the twinkling stars are not suns but are similar to the moon." Incidentally, Madhva reads the verse to say that the moon is not like the stars, so Prabhupada's grand delusion that he is in accordance with a "disciplic succession" of understanding "Vedic literature" cannot be taken seriously.

In all, a very poor work, which is to be read and understood only for what it most certainly is not -- a qualified, balanced representation of the meaning of the Bhagavad Gita. It is indeed a travesty that it is often taken seriously by those believing it to have the sanction of Madhva.

 

[Guruvani]

 

Nothing that Jayadvaita Maharaja does is "butchering the reputation of Bhagavad-Gita As It Is".

 

I beg to differ.

 

If it becomes widely known and publicised that the translation to the verses in the Bhagavad-gita As It Is were plagiarized from the translation of an Advaitin scholar, then I think that it will cast a bad light on the Bhagavad-gita As It Is in the minds of many people who hear such propaganda that is being publicised by some BBT editors for the sake of justifying their tampering with the books of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Some things should be kept confidential.

 

Undoubtedly, the scholarship of Dr. Radhakrishnan was very high.

His translations certainly were true to the original texts.

 

His comments though were undoubtedly based on the Advaitin outlook and not the Vaishnava understanding.

[Guruvani]

It is a fact that Srila Prabhupada was not so critical of other translations of Bhagavad-Gita but of the commentaries on the translations.

He explains here that he felt a need for a proper commentary.

Dr. Radhakrishnan was a very qualified Sanskrit scholar, and his translations were very accurate.

Where he butchered the Gita was in his commentary, not in his translations.

So, it is true that the commentary is all important.

There are many accurate translations of the Gita around, but the Vaishnava commentary is the vital element that seperates the good from the bad.

 

 

 

Bhagavad-gītā is also known as Gītopaniṣad. It is the essence of Vedic knowledge and one of the most important Upaniṣads in Vedic literature. Of course there are many commentaries in English on the Bhagavad-gītā, and one may question the necessity for another one. This present edition can be explained in the following way. Recently an American lady asked me to recommend an English translation of Bhagavad-gītā. Of course in America there are so many editions of Bhagavad-gītā available in English, but as far as I have seen, not only in America but also in India, none of them can be strictly said to be authoritative because in almost every one of them the commentator has expressed his own opinions without touching the spirit of Bhagavad-gītā as it is.

so, personally I can deal with the idea that Hayagriva took some help from the translations of Dr. Radhakrishnan, but I think it is still bad policy for the BBT editors to be making this information public on a broad scale.

[ksbh]

Then let's agree to disagree.

 

One cannot spoil the surface of the moon by throwing mud at it. Similary, the reputation of Bhagavad Gita As It Is cannot be spoiled by anyone because it is the spotless work of a person who has pure love for Krsna.

 

H.H. Jayadvaita Maharaja is not doing anything to spoil the reputation of the book. Or in short .... I ain't buyin what you sayin!

 

 

I beg to differ.

 

If it becomes widely known and publicised that the translation to the verses in the Bhagavad-gita As It Is were plagiarized from the translation of an Advaitin scholar, then I think that it will cast a bad light on the Bhagavad-gita As It Is in the minds of many people who hear such propaganda that is being publicised by some BBT editors for the sake of justifying their tampering with the books of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Some things should be kept confidential.

 

Undoubtedly, the scholarship of Dr. Radhakrishnan was very high.

His translations certainly were true to the original texts.

 

His comments though were undoubtedly based on the Advaitin outlook and not the Vaishnava understanding.

[suchandra]

 

Then let's agree to disagree.

 

One cannot spoil the surface of the moon by throwing mud at it. Similary, the reputation of Bhagavad Gita As It Is cannot be spoiled by anyone because it is the spotless work of a person who has pure love for Krsna.

 

H.H. Jayadvaita Maharaja is not doing anything to spoil the reputation of the book. Or in short .... I ain't buyin what you sayin!

Some nice collection of Madhudvisa prabhu how Prabhupada wants his books to be treated ("The entire book has been "revised and enlarged" by Jayadvaita Swami."):

A Question Of Authority

<hr> BY MADHUDVISA DASA

EDITORIAL, July 17 (VNN) — "So, when you change, then the authority is lost. Just like in our society, sometimes they do something nonsense and they say, 'Prabhupada said.' (laughter) They are doing that. We know that. It is deteriorated like that.

Therefore Krsna said, sa kaleneha mahata yogo nastah kaunteya: 'And in due course of time, this yoga was lost. Therefore I am repeating the same thing, old philosophy to you.' So it requires like that." (750509rc.per Conversations)

There is currently something of a controversy over the changing of "The Blessed Lord" to "The Supreme Personality of Godhead" in Srila Prabhupada's "Bhagavad-gita As It Is." However, the real issue is not of one particular change. The entire book has been "revised and enlarged" by Jayadvaita Swami. He has changed more than 70% of the purports and translations. Many of his changes significantly alter the meaning of the text in the original book which was read daily by Srila Prabhupada without any complaints.

The original "Bhagavad-gita As It Is" was clearly considered quite satisfactory by Srila Prabhupada. With the exception of "cattle raising" he did not request any changes.

The unabridged edition was published in 1968 and it clearly says "The Blessed Lord" and Srila Prabhupada reads it himself many times on folio and hears it read by devotees so many times, but he never says it should be changed. If he wanted to change it he had nine whole years to request the change. If he wanted it changed he could have easily asked the devotees to change it before 1972 when the unabridged edition was printed. But Srila Prabhupada did not request anyone to change it.

"Vrndavana dasa Thakura has previously elaborately described this. That which is clear need not be scrutinized for good qualities and faults." (Adi 16.26)

The issue is not if a particular change is good or bad. The issue is AUTHORITY. Jayadvaita Swami quite openly admits he has no AUTHORITY to make the changes:

"To my knowledge, SRILA PRABHUPADA NEVER ASKED US TO RE-EDIT THE BOOK.

"As you know, and as we kept in mind while doing the work, SRILA PRABHUPADA STAUNCHLY OPPOSED NEEDLESS CHANGES." (Jayadvaita Swami's Letter to Amogha Lila 1986)

Jayadvaita Swami has the audacity to say this after making more than five thousand [mostly completely needless] changes to the book!

"Comparing each verse in the book with the text of the manuscript, I made only those changes that TO ME SEEMED WORTHWHILE. I tried to be conservative and not make needless changes. At the same time, I kept in mind that whatever changes we are to make we should make now, so that the book will never need to be revised again."

It's very important to note that the more than five thousand changes made to Srila Prabhupada's "Bhagavad-gita As It Is," the most important book in the world, are "Only those changes that seem worthwhile to Jayadvaita Swami..."

The "International Society for Krishna Consciousness" has put everything into the hands of Jayadvaita Swami? Whatever he wants to change in Srila Prabhupada's books, that's fine... And he has changed so much...

It's not a question of arguing a particular change is good or bad. ANY unauthorized change destroys the AUTHORITY of the book.

As we have said over and over, if the BBT had simply corrected the real typos in the English and Sanskrit there would not have been a problem. We are not talking of the sort of typographical errors a proof-reader would find. The really serious changes are the ones where the philosophy is changed or watered-down in the new version of the Bhagavad-gita. There are many such changes:

"On the other hand, he who controls the senses by the mind and engages his active organs in works of devotion, without attachment, is by far superior." (Original Bg. 3.7)

"On the other hand, if a sincere person tries to control the active senses by the mind and begins karma yoga [in Krsna consciousness] without attachment, he is by far superior." (Revised & Enlarged Bg. 3.7)

So one does not have to be a great scholar to notice "contoling the senses by the mind and engaging in works of devotion" is NOT NOT NOT the same as "TRYING to control the senses and beginning karma yoga??" Do we no longer have to control our senses and engage in works of devotion? Is is enough to just TRY to control our senses??

There are SO many changes like this. You can see the book changes web page for more. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/8403/

"I must admit my frailties in presenting Srimad-Bhagavatam, but still I am hopeful of its good reception by the thinkers and leaders of society on the strength of the following statement of Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.5.11):

"On the other hand, that literature which is full of descriptions of the pastimes of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, forms, pastimes, etc. of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a different creation, full of transcendental words directed toward bringing about a revolution in the impious lives of this world's misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest." (Srimad-Bhagavatam Introduction)

Srila Prabhupada: No. If one's mind is perfect, he may give a meaning, but, according to our conviction, if one is perfect, why should he try to change the word of God? And if one is imperfect, what is the value of his change? [note: in Bhagavad-gita 3.7 as mentioned above and in so many other cases Jayadvaita Swami has changed the translation of the words of God as accepted by Srila Prabhupada to one he considers "more correct..."]

Disciple: Aquinas doesn't say "change."

Srila Prabhupada: Interpretation means change. If man is imperfect, how can he change the words of God? If the words can be changed, they are not perfect. So there will be doubt whether the words are spoken by God or by an imperfect person.

Disciple: The many different Protestant faiths resulted from such individual interpretation. It's surprising to find this viewpoint in Aquinas.

Srila Prabhupada: AS SOON AS YOU INTERPRET OR CHANGE THE SCRIPTURE, THE SCRIPTURE LOSES ITS AUTHORITY. Then another man will come and interpret things in his own way. Another will come and then another, and in this way the original purport of the scripture is lost.

Jayadvaita Swami is just the beginning. He will be gone and another chief editor of the BBT will change Srila Prabhupada's "Bhagavad-gita As It Is" again, of course he will, like Jayadvaita, only make the changes that seem worthwhile to him... BUT THE ORIGINAL PURPORT OF THE SCRIPTURE IS LOST by such changes.

We have already seen this happen with "Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers." Jayadvaita Swami edited it in 1978 and in 1993 the BBT had "Sita devi dasi?" re-edit it to remove the things ISKCON didn't like about Srila Prabhupada's preaching in PQPA...

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/8403/pqpac.html

Jayadvaita explains in regard to his Bhagavad-gita changes: "For this second edition, however, Srila Prabhupada's disciples had the benefit of having worked with his books for the last fifteen years. The English editors were familiar with his philosophy and language, and the Sanskrit editors were by now accomplished scholars. AND NOW THEY WERE ABLE TO SEE THEIR WAY THROUGH PERPLEXITIES IN THE MANUSCRIPT BY CONSULTING THE SAME SANSKRIT COMMENTARIES SRILA PRABHUPADA CONSULTED WHEN WRITING BHAGAVAD-GITA AS IT IS... in places [srila Prabhupada's] translations, ALTHOUGH ALREADY CORRECT, HAVE BEEN REVISED to come closer to the original Sanskrit... (Note About the Second Edition p. 866 of the "Revised and Enlarged Edition, 1983 printing. This note has been removed from subsequent printings!)

"I am also practically finding that if any of our students artificially try to become scholars by associating with unwanted persons they become victimized, for a little learning is dangerous, especially for the Westerners. I am practically seeing that as soon as they begin to learn a little Sanskrit immediately they feel that they have become more than their guru and then the policy is kill guru and be killed himself." (76-09-18 Letter: Dixit)

Yasoda-nandana: In the Gurukula we were teaching Isopanisad class to the children. So we took... (break) ...Prabhupada and the words which the recent edition of the Press is wrong. Many changes were brought. They were trying to make better English, but sometimes, to make better English, I think they were making philosophical mistakes also. There is not so much need of making so much better English. Your English is sufficient. It is very clear, very simple. We have caught over 125 changes. They're changing so many things. We are wondering if this is necessary. I will show you today. I have kept the book.

Prabhupada: I know that these rascals are doing. What can be done? How they can be relied on?... And Ramesvara is indulging this. The great rascal is that Jagannatha? He's there in Los Angeles... Jagannatha-suta... And the one rascal is gone.

Tamala Krsna: Nitai.

Prabhupada: It is starting. What can I do? These cannot... These rascals cannot be educated. Dangerous. Little learning, dangerous. So how to correct? The leader of these dangerous--Radha-vallabha. Hm. He's a dangerous, who maintains these rascal with this work. He'll always have questions and alteration. That is his business. That is American business.

They take that always. What can I do? Ultimate, it goes for editorial. They make changes, such changes...

Prabhupada: So how to check this? How to stop this?...

Prabhupada: BUT THEY ARE DOING WITHOUT ANY AUTHORITY...

Prabhupada: Very serious feature. It is not possible for me to check, and they are doing all nonsense, freedom. (pause)

Yasoda-nandana: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: What to do?

Prabhupada: ...Now do the needful. OTHERWISE EVERYTHING WILL BE SPOILED.

These rascal editorial... That Easy Journey, original, this (indistinct) Hayagriva has changed so many things.

Tamala Krsna: He actually took out the whole part about their going to the moon being childish. He deleted the whole section.

Yasoda-nandana: Also in the Bhagavatam, where Prabhupada was talking about Lord Buddha... You mentioned that if the followers of Lord Buddha do not close the slaughterhouse, there is no meaning to such a caricature. That word was very nice. But in new book that word is not there any more. They have pulled the word. The meaning of the word is not... So many times.

Prabhupada: It is very serious situation. Ramesvara is in direct...

Yasoda-nandana: Sometimes they appeal that "We can make better English," so they change like that, just like in the case of Isopanisad. There are over a hundred changes. So where is the need? Your words are sufficient. The potency is there. When they change, it is something else.

Svarupa Damodara: That's actually a very dangerous mentality.

Yasoda-nandana: What is it going to be in five years? It's going to be a different book.

Prabhupada: So you... What you are going... It is very serious situation.

You write one letter that "Why you have made so many changes?" And whom to write? Who will care? All rascals are there. Write to Satsvarupa that "This is the position. They are doing anything and everything at their whim." THE NEXT PRINTING SHOULD BE AGAIN TO THE ORIGINAL WAY...

Prabhupada: So write them immediately that "THE RASCAL EDITORS, THEY ARE DOING HAVOC, and they are being maintained by Ramesvara and party..."

Prabhupada: So what to do?

Prabhupada: So you bring this to Satsvarupa. THEY CANNOT CHANGE ANYTHING!

Tamala Krsna: (indistinct)

Prabhupada: So on the whole, these dangerous things are going on. How to check it?

Prabhupada: So they are doing very freely and dangerously. And this rascal is always after change, Radha-vallabha. He's a great rascal. (770622rc.vrn )

[For clarity I have removed quite a bit from the above conversation but you can read the whole thing on folio. All the way through this discussion Tamal Krsna Maharaja is trying to get Srila Prabhupada to agree to Jayadvaita Swami going through and re-editing all the books, but Srila Prabhupada just says "Hm." and goes on to say "The next printing should be to the original way... They cannot change anything!"]

So ISKCON'S new Bhagavad-gita including the more than five thousand changes that "seem worthwhile" to Jayadvaita Swami has absolutely no AUTHORITY and is completely useless. Let us read the book Srila Prabhupada himself read from daily and had no complaints with...

"Vrndavana dasa Thakura has previously elaborately described this. That which is clear need not be scrutinized for good qualities and faults." (Adi 16.26)

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

Your servant

Madhudvisa dasa

SB 4.20.17

One should accept the instructions of the Supreme Personality of Godhead by bowing down at the lotus feet of the Lord. This means that anything spoken by the Personality of Godhead should be taken as it is, with great care and attention and with great respect. It is not our business to amend the words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead or make additions or alterations, as it has become a custom for many so-called scholars and svamis who comment on the words of Bhagavad-gita. Here the practical example of how to accept the instruction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is shown by Prthu Maharaja. This is the way to receive knowledge through the parampara system.

67-02-10 Letter: Kirtanananda

Regarding your editing, I would very much like it. I am sending my lecture copies to you. I think my other copies are lying on the left side of my seat in a cardboard box which please find out. Please be careful not to change the ideas.

68-01-22 Letter: Satsvarupa

Brahmananda & others cannot change the style. They want to see if there is any grammatical discrepancy.

70-02-15 Letter: Satsvarupa

I have sent a few tapes to Bhagavan das. He sends to you his edited copies and they may be made final. I want two editings only, just to see if there is any grammatical or spelling mistake. Your present program of two editions first by yourself and then by Jayadvaita is a nice arrangement.

Jayadvaita has good knowledge.

70-04-28 Letter: Pradyumna Please accept my blessings. I have just received the blueprint copy of KRSNA, the Reservoir of Pleasure and I have begun to read it through. But I notice that there are some points you should correct before the final printing. I have already noted you the injunction that you should change the pretipadika artha to first case ending instead. Sannyasin should be printed Sannyasi, etc. So please correct these.

70-04-28 Letter: Pradyumna

Another point is that there are some errors in the English also. On page 2 it should read ". . . decided to kill his sister, Devaki." but it has become sisters, plural. Then, what does it mean?: "The Lord's compromise was that He had Vasudeva propose . . ." This does not seem to be very clear or at least it is very awkward expression. So please see that the editors make a very careful final proofreading before printing the final copies.

71-03-17 Letter: Jayadvaita

I have dictated the missing purports from Chapter IX and they are set enclosed herewith. So far changing the working of verse or purport of 12:12 discussed before, it may remain as it is.

74-10-24 Letter: Frederico:

Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated October 3, 1974 and have noted the contents. I am very glad to learn that you are translating the Bhagavad-gita As It Is into Portuguese. Be careful not to change anything but present it exactly as it is. This is how we receive Bhagavad-gita through the disciplic succession as stated in the Fourth Chapter. By this translating work you will learn our philosophy very nicely. It is very important to broadcast Krishna consciousness all over the world. This is the great need of modern civilization.

74-10-31 Letter: Hrdayananda:

I am glad to note the publishing work you are doing, and I look forward to receiving the books printed. I am pleased that you are personally seeing to the translation how it is done. Actually these books are the foundation stone of our movement. Whatever we are is resting on these books, so far reading them and distributing them. This should be our only motto.

74-11-14 Letter: Hamsaduta

Regarding publishing the Life from Life in English it should be grammatically correct because it is written book. Yes, it will be very good if you publish a book of lectures. Regarding going to New York, oh yes, certainly you can go. I have telegramed Bali Mardan to come here but not yet received any reply.

76-01-05 Letter: Radhavallabha

I will have to see personally what are the mistakes in the synonyms and also how you intend to correct them. I was not satisfied with the corrections that were made before. I saw some changes which I did no approve. Nitai may correct whatever mistakes are there, but the corrected material must be sent to me for final approval. So reprinting the volumes will have to wait until the mistakes are corrected and approved by me. In the meantime you can supply the standing orders whatever new volumes are published.

76-05-04 Letter: Radhavallabha

Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated April 22, 1976, and I have noted the contents with care. Yes, there is no need for corrections for the first and second Cantos. Whatever is there is alright. Once Pradyumna comes to join me here from India, then there will be no need for Nitai das or Jagannatha das to edit the Srimad-Bhagavatam.

76-05-29 Letter: Bhargava

Concerning the Bhagavat darsana cover, this Hindi on the back is not good. Who is translating this? Also, the address on the back of our Vrindaban Temple is not correctly spelled. It has been spelled Chattakara Road; But it should be Chattikara Road. Who is proof-reading?

76-08-26 Letter: Radhavallabha

You may title this book, Teachings of Lord Kapila, but it must be subtitled, "The Son of Devahuti". That will remain, do not try to change it. The Americans may like it or not like it, but we must make the distinction between devahuti putra kapila, and the atheistic Kapila. Do not try to change anything without my permission.

76-09-07 Letter: Radhavallabha

Titling of the Ninth Canto as Liberation is good, and the Tenth Canto should be called "The Summum Bonum". As far as the 11th and 12th Cantos are concerned they shall be named when they are presented. The title which you have given to the Eighth Canto was a little hard to understand at first but if it refers to pralaya, then it is alright. You must consult with me on such matters. Do not manufacture anything.

76-09-28 Letter: Gopiparanadhana

Please accept my blessings. With reference to your letter to Harikesa dated 21st inst., regarding the purport, 2nd paragraph to Bhagavatam 2.2.38, it is clear. Do not try to change anything.

77-03-31 Letter: Lilavati

Our literature is not sentimental stories. It is meant to be understood by the intelligent class of men. Children and those with child-like mentalities will do better to chant "Hare Krishna" and take prasadam. We cannot water down the philosophy to make it more palatable. Our books must remain as they are. Do not waste your time anymore with such attempts. We are not going to publish it. Whatever books we have got, let them try to understand, and if they cannot then let them chant "Hare Krishna" and take prasadam.

77-04-18 Letter: Ranadhira

Please accept my blessings. I beg to thank you for your letter dated April 8th, 1977 along with the enclosed review from "Choice." The review is very remarkable considering the importance of the journal, and I thank you very much for securing it. You have written: "We are all eager for the day when your books are recognized as the greatest masterpieces of all. We are all eager for the day when your books are the most demanded works in the library. We are sure that day is not far away." Yes, Krsna will fulfill your desire. Actually it is so. But because they are fools and rascals it will take some time. Regarding the error which the critic has noted about the location of Tirupati, I did not say so. It should be corrected.

750309rc.lon Conversations

Prabhupada: That I do not know, but the remedy is there. If you like, you can take it. If a man is suffering from some disease, the remedy is there, the physician is there, but if he does not take advantage, then that is his business. What can be done? This is very nice... Every Bhagavata, every line is so important.

761026rc.vrn Conversations

Hari-sauri: You said, "Please be informed that Nitai has become a venomous serpent."

Prabhupada: So this has been sent? (laughs)

Hari-sauri: Yes, to the GBC.

Devotee: Yogananda asked how many pages, when he heard about the newsletter. He thought that you spoke so long about that. And I just said, "Just two lines." But they never asked me what the letter said.

Prabhupada: Yes, two lines is sufficient.

Dhananjaya: Punar musaka bhava. Punar musaka bhava.

Prabhupada: Yes. This is exactly the same case. Punar musaka bhava, you know the whole story? A musaka, a mouse, was made a tiger, and the tiger wanted to eat the saintly person who made him. First of all he was mouse.

So he came to the saintly person. "Sir, I am troubled. Give me some benediction.What do you want?Now, the cat always chases.All right, you become cat so that you'll not be attacked." Then after some time he came. "I am being chased by the dog.All right, you become a dog." From cat to dog, from mouse to... Then again he came. "Still, they are chasing me. Fox." And then in this way, and ultimately he made a tiger. And after becoming a tiger, he began to look, staring on the... "What do you mean by this?I shall eat you.Oh? You become again a mouse." (laughter) Again he became mouse. That's all.

Hari-sauri: The perfect example.

Devotee: Now he looks like dirty. You know, like brown. The dhoti's not white. It's like brownish.

Prabhupada: He harassed. "He has not increased my..." Hearing and hearing, he wants to go. So why not, if he found some real disciplic succession, some babaji, why he did not remain there? He is criticizing that our is not in the proper succession. So why he did not remain where he found the proper succession? Why he's sometimes in Vrndavana, sometimes Delhi, sometimes here. Why he is loitering? Crazy. Unfortunate. Unnecessarily picking out some trouble.

Hari-sauri: Faultfinding.

Prabhupada: The babajis, they are against anything preaching. They are very, very much against preaching. So I am preaching. Babajis, the Mayavadi sannyasis, and all of them, their idea is that I am ruining this bhajana and Hindu dharma. This is the propaganda. What I am writing, they are all wrong. And they are making... And they try to poison my disciples as far as possible so that the whole institution may be poisoned and break. This is their propaganda.

Hari-sauri: That was one thing that Nitai put in his letter, that the teachings of ISKCON are completely opposite or contradictory to what is actually in the sastra.

Prabhupada: Now he has become tiger. He wants to kill that philosophy. When he did not know anything he came to us. Now he has become learned, he wants to criticize. The same philosophy. "You have made me tiger, now I can see you are my eatable." (laughs) He could not find out any other eatable. "I shall eat you." The rascal. What can be done? (end)

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

<hr>

[Guruvani]

 

H.H. Jayadvaita Maharaja is not doing anything to spoil the reputation of the book. Or in short .... I ain't buyin what you sayin!

 

That seems to be a little naive.

Many devotees are not satisfied that Jayadvaita Maharaja has made so many editorial changes to the books.

Whether it is real or imagined many devotees think he has overstepped his limits.

 

I am not so sure that you can speak for the whole world to say whether or not the reputation of the Bhagavad-gita will be tarnished by the BBT propaganda that the translations of Bhagavad-gita As It Is were plagiarized from the translation of Dr. Radhakrishnan.

 

Maybe in your mind and my mind it doesn't matter but only a naive person would think that many other people would not be affected by such BBT propaganda.

[suchandra]

 

I have heard of the translations being taken from Dr. Radhakrishnan's book (with minor modifications)and I think it is a credible story.

 

Prabhupada, 30 November 1972: "Just like in your country, South India, Dr. Radhakrishnan, he has done so many works. But to tell you frankly, it is useless labor. Because he has said in one of his writings that Bhagavad-gītā is mental speculation. He is surpassing all the ācāryas who came, who appeared in South India. Rāmānujācārya appeared in South India, Madhvācārya appeared in South India. Nimbārka appeared in South India.

Vishnusvāmī appeared in South India. Śankarācārya appeared in South India. South India is so blessed. And he also appeared in South India. He’s decrying all the ācāryas. Just see the position. He says, “Bhagavad-gītā is a mental speculation.” And he has interpreted in a different way. Krishna says that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad- yājī mām namaskuru [bg. 18.65]. And if you have seen Dr. Radhakrishnan’s translation of Bhagavad-gītā, he says, “It is not to Krishna.” Krishna says directly that man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. He says, “Not to Krishna.” You’ll see. So this defect will be there, unless one is sadācāra-sampanna-vaisnava, self-realized."

[ksbh]

From the following post, it would appear that Dr. Radhakrishnan, was just a fool with no realization at all. Unqualified people like him should not speak about Bhagavad Gita, much less write commentary on it.

 

I hesitated to add 'Dr.' before his name but I did it because it only denotes a material designation.

 

 

Prabhupada, 30 November 1972: "Just like in your country, South India, Dr. Radhakrishnan, he has done so many works. But to tell you frankly, it is useless labor. Because he has said in one of his writings that Bhagavad-gītā is mental speculation. He is surpassing all the ācāryas who came, who appeared in South India. Rāmānujācārya appeared in South India, Madhvācārya appeared in South India. Nimbārka appeared in South India.

Vishnusvāmī appeared in South India. Śankarācārya appeared in South India. South India is so blessed. And he also appeared in South India. He’s decrying all the ācāryas. Just see the position. He says, “Bhagavad-gītā is a mental speculation.” And he has interpreted in a different way. Krishna says that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad- yājī mām namaskuru [bg. 18.65]. And if you have seen Dr. Radhakrishnan’s translation of Bhagavad-gītā, he says, “It is not to Krishna.” Krishna says directly that man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. He says, “Not to Krishna.” You’ll see. So this defect will be there, unless one is sadācāra-sampanna-vaisnava, self-realized."

[Murali_Mohan_das]

It is not the commentaries that are "dead", it is our heads that are "dead". We are almost all dead-heads.

 

What can we understand with these "puppy brains" of ours? Can we understand at the same level of a Maharati like Arjuna?

 

Many of us cannot swallow truth unless it is candy-coated (kinda like The Simpsons).

 

 

So why did Prabhupada write his own commentary to the Gita? If Bhagavad Gita's meaning is so clear, why did he write hundreds of pages about it?

 

Now his disciples are writing hundreds of pages about Prabhupada's commentaries.

 

Such is the nature of a written word. It is in some sense "dead" and has to be periodically revived by people who understand it's meaning and can put it in a fresh perspective. That is why many great Vaishnava acharyas wrote commentaries to Gita and other scriptures.

[Kulapavana]

 

It is not the commentaries that are "dead", it is our heads that are "dead". We are almost all dead-heads.

 

What can we understand with these "puppy brains" of ours? Can we understand at the same level of a Maharati like Arjuna?

 

Many of us cannot swallow truth unless it is candy-coated (kinda like The Simpsons).

 

Self-flagellation only works to a point when you try to understand things....

 

First of all, Gita was spoken precisely for people like us, not pure devotees like Arjuna. Second, I never said that commentaries were not needed for people like me.

 

And lastly, if you consider yourself such a dead-head why are you attempting to instruct me on the proper way to understand the reasons behind these purports? Sometimes fake humility does indeed turn into the real stuff, but dont count on it. Be honest with yourself, that is usually good enough.

 

As to the need to sugarcoat the truth... often it is merely an excuse for the people who dont want you to know the truth. What happened to speaking the truth as a desirable brahminical quality?

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Self-flagellation only works to a point when you try to understand things....

I'm not sure what you mean by this. In my mind, my statements are *realistic*, not modest.

 

I survived four years of engineering school. I passed Inorganic Chemistry, two years of Calculus, Ordinary Differential Equations, Physics (Mechanics, Electricity & Magnetism, Modern (relativity, quantum)), various Computer Science classes and so on.

 

How much of what I paid very good money (and still owe money for) for do you think I can still recall? I can recall some principles, but could I derive anything mathematically?

 

Of course, I don't know the full powers of *your* mind, but, statistically-speaking, I'm *above average*.

 

To think you *don't* have a puppy-brain is extreme hubris!!

 

 

First of all, Gita was spoken precisely for people like us, not pure devotees like Arjuna. Second, I never said that commentaries were not needed for people like me.

Absolutely. Gita is universal (meaning it's *also* for pure devotees like Arjuna).

 

 

And lastly, if you consider yourself such a dead-head why are you attempting to instruct me on the proper way to understand the reasons behind these purports? Sometimes fake humility does indeed turn into the real stuff, but dont count on it. Be honest with yourself, that is usually good enough.

I'm glad you can see deep into my heart and it is so obvious to you that my humility is faked. "Fake it 'til you make it" is my motto.

 

If you look at the post to which you reply, you'll see I was replying directly to a post by "Lowborn", so, if you take my response personally, that's purely your choice.

 

 

As to the need to sugarcoat the truth... often it is merely an excuse for the people who dont want you to know the truth. What happened to speaking the truth as a desirable brahminical quality?

There are numerous places in the books of Gurudev, Param-Gurudev, and Srila Swami Maharaj Prabhupada where it is made perfectly clear that adjustments may be made for the sake of presentation.

 

How is a sugar-coated truth any less truthful than one coated in hot chili? Truth is truth!

[Kulapavana]

 

There are numerous places in the books of Gurudev, Param-Gurudev, and Srila Swami Maharaj Prabhupada where it is made perfectly clear that adjustments may be made for the sake of presentation.

 

How is a sugar-coated truth any less truthful than one coated in hot chili? Truth is truth!

 

And precisely what is a nature of such "adjustments" or "sugar coatings" of the truth? Since you brought up the subject I expect you to know.

 

Sometimes the issue is raised that it is OK to tell people lies in order to keep them motivated in a right direction. More than one person in our tradition says that for the sake of preaching siddhanta may be compromised. This sometimes passes as "sugarcoating" the truth. The problem with this approach is the possible erosion of trust.

 

As to the humility and realism in out posts, this is very much a side line in this discussion, but please dont discount the judgement of your peers using the "they dont know me" argument. It is just as hard for us to honestly look at ourselves, if not more so. I apologize for my insensitivity.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

And precisely what is a nature of such "adjustments" or "sugar coatings" of the truth? Since you brought up the subject I expect you to know.

 

Largely, it's a question of emphasis. For those just coming to Krishna Consciousness, the presentation is often focused on liberation (mukti). We are all suffering a beating in the winds of material enjoyment and suffering. Many spiritual seekers are searching for relief from their suffering.

 

So, in introductory presentations, preachers say Krishna Consciousness is a way for you to live simply and happily. The benefits of the vegetarian lifestlye may be presented (despite the fact that Vaishnavas are *not* vegetarians per-se). There may be an emphasis on karma and the changing bodies.

 

What is the deeper conception, though? It is "die to live"! It is "sacrifice all for the Center--even your happiness and contentment"!! It is "whatever you do *DON'T* chant the names of Krishna, for he is a thief--he will steal your heart and leave you miserable longing for his association!!"

 

 

Sometimes the issue is raised that it is OK to tell people lies in order to keep them motivated in a right direction. More than one person in our tradition says that for the sake of preaching siddhanta may be compromised. This sometimes passes as "sugarcoating" the truth. The problem with this approach is the possible erosion of trust.

 

It may be OK to tell people lies, because the Truth is undeniable. According to the sincerity of the seeker, the truth will be revealed--regardless of whatever lies I might tell.

 

Nobody *ought* to be putting any trust in me. The only person we can trust (and in whom we must put *FULL* trust*) is Krishna (and His representative). Even then, we must trust that, whatever He sends--however miserable it might make us--is for our own benefit.

 

 

As to the humility and realism in out posts, this is very much a side line in this discussion, but please dont discount the judgement of your peers using the "they dont know me" argument. It is just as hard for us to honestly look at ourselves, if not more so. I apologize for my insensitivity.

 

I don't think I discounted your judgement--after all, I replied to it. I merely pointed out your presumption. If I did not care for the criticism and feedback of my peers, I would be writing in a journal and not here. Your apology, however unnecessary, is appreciated.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

For those just coming to Krishna Consciousness, the presentation is often focused on liberation (mukti).

 

To clarify...in the writings of Param-Gurudev, it is made abundantly clear that the Vaishnava does not hanker for mukti/liberation. Rather, the Vaishnava aspires to be dasa dasa anudasa - servant of the servant of the servant.