Whether Devotees of ISKON are the best devotees

[Guruvani]

 

Now Sri Caitanya said that a new satya yuga comes with the holy name that will last for 10.000 years.

 

 

Where is that quote by Mahaprabhu?

I would like to see that quote, unless you are just speaking feelance.

[cbrahma]

 

but, boasting about present accomplishments is somehow alright?

 

Once you start bragging about yourself the fall is just around the corner.

 

I wasn't boasting about my past.

 

You claimed your PAST accomplishments as establishing some kind of entitlement to make statements about PRESENT ISKCON.

As far as your twisting my statements to be boasting the context was a response to somebody's speculation that I don't know anything about ISKCON. I wasn't interested in making competitive statements. Apples and oranges.

[Guruvani]

 

You claimed your PAST accomplishments as establishing some kind of entitlement to make statements about PRESENT ISKCON.

 

 

and your claim to fame is that you have participated in the undermining of Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON by supporting the offensive GBC guru system and being the cronie of an imitation sakshat hari?

 

Many direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada were ousted from ISKCON to make room for cronies like you.

 

I don't consider anything praiseworthy of such a situation.

 

Many dedicated disciples of Srila Prabhupada were ejected from their positions in ISKCON and replaced by cronies of the GBC guru system.

[Guruvani]

 

mine are the more mudane achievements which I manage to carry out daily - like the full morning program, sixteen rounds, the 4 regulative priniciples, prasadam , hari-nama and other sevas.

Really?

In December of last year you wrote:

 

 

I stopped chanting for a long time but lately couldn't get the form of Gopinath out of my mind. It was haunting me. I went to the temple chanted in the darshan of Rukmini-Dwarkadisha in New Dwarka. It seems chanting is a vital to spiritual survival , like breathing. I have made a vow to chant at least 4 rounds of japa, but I am worried that I need to be initiated into the Hare Nama for any benefit. This causes me much anxiety because I haven't found anybody that I feel I could trust in that capacity.

 

you also wrote:

 

 

I'm up to eight rounds a day now. I'm having some trouble with the regulative principles. What worries me is that one of the offenses is to sin on the strength of chanting. This puts me in double bind ...

 

you also wrote:

 

 

I'm going to continue with my Christian faith. There is still some corruption but it doesn't demand total subjugation of one person by another. Nobody should have that kind of power. And it's not so damn complicated.

 

so, it appears your own glories have been slightly embellished today.

[Bhakta Devarsi]

 

These are nice sentiments for a disciple to have, but that is just about all it is to them, at least IMO.

 

First we get a perfect order to chant 64 rounds after initiation, then we get another perfect order to chant 16 after that first perfect order proved to be impractical.

 

Some orders take time to fructify and prove their value or lack thereof. Lets take sannyasa policies for example. Towards the end of his manifest lila Srila Prabhupada radically changed his attitude towards awarding sannyasa to Westerners and emphatically declared: "No more sannyasa."

 

What is the immutable core order of the guru, to which ALL other orders are subservient? To be Krsna conscious and to spread KC to others? That is indeed the perfect order.

 

Sentiments? The strict adherence to the orders of the Mahabhagavat Acharya is mere sentiment?

 

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada gave those "subservient" orders.

 

Let's see, I think he gave them according to the condition of the people he was facing, and that they were to serve the end of "to be Krishna conscious and spread Krishna Consciousness to others".

 

We did not know how to do that. He instructed us.

 

He changed his orders sometimes, sometimes he did not.

 

If someone can't keep up with the current status of the instruction of the Acharya, perhaps they need to find another Guru to follow. Or just follow their speculative mind on how to "continue the mission" but at least call it what it is.

 

MY CULT. The cultic tendency of the human being is to be centrifically attracted to a central person and their expression.

 

The fortunate persons dovetail their cultic tendency by surrounding one worthy of being the center of a cult.

 

The rest are looking to be the center of a cult, and follow the leader with a similar level of charisma and self-expression, hoping to climb the ladder to the top and become the center someday too. Each father does this to some degree by attracting wife and children due to fruitive labors. Each kanistha "guru" who strikes out on his own does the same.

 

And this forum is full of such.

 

Just look for those who try to distract others from inquiring as to the latest status of Srila Prabhupada's mission and instructions on a matter, by claiming that such instructions are dated, expired, out of touch with the current reality unfolding before us, etc etc, blah blah.

 

And as far as relating to people, Srila Prabhupada never ever changed a principle of the siddhanta to cater or patronize to a person.

 

If a person had some extreme or eccentric habit, he would alter that person's sadhana, and give them an approach tailored to them, but that might mean they only get to visit a temple for arati and other public functions, and not live there worshiping on the alter every day.

 

The popular populist cultists on this forum are implying that Gaudiya Vaisnavism needs to become more user friendly to the "mainstream" mass of people, but such adjustments are left to the jurisdiction of the uttama Guru, who can take dictation from supersoul to make adjustments in sadhana without watering down the principles and goals the sadhana is made for.

 

The last person who will be successful at such a thing is one who has rejected the recent current link Acharya in the Sampradaya, and instead speculates on where that Acharya went wrong in his application and what might be more suitable to new people who approach the speculator.

 

Enjoy the cults folks, we all got one, Mahaprabhu's is my cup of tea, and Centering around a Mahabhagavat Acharya's instructions seems the most direct entrance to such a sacred circle, and we all know what happens when we follow the cult of a neophyte or madhyam "guru".

 

Nectar of Devotion ch.5 :A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.

 

Hare Krsna

[cbrahma]

 

Really?

In December of last year you wrote:

 

 

 

you also wrote:

 

 

 

you also wrote:

 

 

 

 

so, it appears you own glories have been slightly embellished today.

I don't consider them glories. Your investigations are moot, since I have returned to my sadhana for months now. I don't need to embellish or enumerate my services. That's your strategy. I explained the context in which I did so. Your twisting and poking prove nothing.

[Guruvani]

 

Your twisting and poking prove nothing.

 

It proves you are a fraud and in no position to be condescending upon others as if you are some big fixed-up devotee.

 

Last December you said you were going to stay with Christianty and today you are claiming to be all fixed-up devotee.

 

My estimation is that you are a fraud.

Thats my humble opinion.

[DCD]

 

Where is that quote by Mahaprabhu?

I would like to see that quote, unless you are just speaking feelance.

 

 

I heard that Prabhupada said that, But sincerily I don't remember where that idea comes from.

 

I am investigating that now in my vedabase and other sources

 

thanks

 

 

haribolo

[Guruvani]

 

I heard that Prabhupada said that, But sincerily I don't remember where that idea comes from.

 

I am investigating that now in my vedabase and other sources

 

thanks

 

 

haribolo

 

Best I can recall it is a quote from some Purana.(not Bhagavat Purana)

I don't think Mahaprabhu quoted the verse, but it was used by his disciples in their commentaries on the shastra.(best I can recall)

 

It is an ancient reference in some ancient text.

 

The point is valid, but I can't recall of any reference where Mahaprabhu personally quoted that verse.

[Guruvani]

ok I found the reference on the Golden Age in Kali yuga.

 

Brahma-vaivarta Purana

This specific dialogue is between Lord Krsna and Mother Ganga.

 

 

 

Text 59:

 

 

kaler daSa-sahasraaNi

madbhaktaaH saMti bhu-tale

ekavarNaa bhaviSyaMti

madbhakteSu gateSu ca

 

"For 10,000 years of Kali such devotees of Mine will be present on earth. After the departure of My devotees there will be only one varna [outcaste]."

 

[cbrahma]

 

It proves you are a fraud and in no position to be condescending upon others as if you are some big fixed-up devotee.

 

Last December you said you were going to stay with Christianty and today you are claiming to be all fixed-up devotee.

 

My estimation is that you are a fraud.

Thats my humble opinion.

I didn't claim to be a fixed up devotee. I claimed to be following a sadhanna. It is the truth and as verifiable as your boasting. But of course you need that 'ad hominem' since your self-glorification didnt' impress.

[cbrahma]

 

and your claim to fame is that you have participated in the undermining of Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON by supporting the offensive GBC guru system and being the cronie of an imitation sakshat hari?

 

Many direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada were ousted from ISKCON to make room for cronies like you.

 

I don't consider anything praiseworthy of such a situation.

 

Many dedicated disciples of Srila Prabhupada were ejected from their positions in ISKCON and replaced by cronies of the GBC guru system.

Your aptitude for deliberate misconstruction is uncanny. I have absolutely no desire to be initiated by these phonies. But at least i've learned the facts first hand.

[DCD]

 

Best I can recall it is a quote from some Purana.(not Bhagavat Purana)

I don't think Mahaprabhu quoted the verse, but it was used by his disciples in their commentaries on the shastra.(best I can recall)

 

It is an ancient reference in some ancient text.

 

The point is valid, but I can't recall of any reference where Mahaprabhu personally quoted that verse.

 

Weather and nature conditions in the Kali Yuga

 

when flowers will be begot within flowers, and fruits within fruits, then will the Yuga come to an end. And the clouds will pour rain unseasonably when the end of the Yuga approaches.

10,000 years era within Kali yuga

 

Brahma Vaivarta Purana mentions ten thousand years period within Kali yuga of increased bhakti influence. It starts 5,000 years after the beginning of Kali yuga, i.e. around 1900 AD given the traditional dating of Kali yuga. In his discussion with historian Arnold Toynbee in London, Srila Prabhupada said: "I have started this Krishna Conscious Movement among the Indians and Americans and for the next ten thousand years it will increase. Then there will be a gloomy picture of Kali Yuga. Ten thousand years is not a short time. It is our duty on behalf of Krishna."

 

 

<small><small> His unique position as the foremost spiritual authority for the golden age-

"My books will be the law books for the next ten thousand years"

(Srila Prabhupada statement in Los Angeles, 1976).

Also I found this is very relevant!

</small></small><small><small> Statement by Srila Prabhupada in New York in 1968:-

"After me there will be no more Acarya" (recounted by Rohini Kumar Swami in July 1989, November 1991 and February 1993).</small></small>

[Guruvani]

 

 

 

<small><small> His unique position as the foremost spiritual authority for the golden age-

"My books will be the law books for the next ten thousand years"

(Srila Prabhupada statement in Los Angeles, 1976).

Also I found this is very relevant!

</small></small><small><small> Statement by Srila Prabhupada in New York in 1968:-

"After me there will be no more Acarya" (recounted by Rohini Kumar Swami in July 1989, November 1991 and February 1993).</small></small>

The quote about being the lawbooks for 10,000 years needs some proper reference.

I would be quite fine if the quote could be verified with proper reference.

 

As far as second-hand accounts and hearsay like the quote of Rohini Kumar Swami, Srila Prabhupada instructed his disciples not to accept anything unless he wrote it personally.

 

I am quite fine with the idea, but still I don't operate on hearsay or accounts of disciples recalling something they think they remember hearing Srila Prabhupada say.

[Guruvani]

 

Srila Prabhupada said: "I have started this Krishna Conscious Movement among the Indians and Americans and for the next ten thousand years it will increase. Then there will be a gloomy picture of Kali Yuga. Ten thousand years is not a short time. It is our duty on behalf of Krishna."

 

 

Maybe so, but technically the Golden Age of Mahaprabhu started about 500 years ago with the advent of Mahaprabhu.

 

I don't think that the period started the day Srila Prabhupada landed in America.

 

The era of Mahaprabhu was the Golden Age at it's very pinnacle as far as I am concerned.

 

It might spread wider in the time after Mahaprabhu, but the quality will never be any greater than it was in the time of Mahaprabhu himself in India.

 

(my opinion)

[DCD]

<small><small> Statement by Srila Prabhupada in New York in 1968:-

"After me there will be no more Acarya" (recounted by Rohini Kumar Swami in July 1989, November 1991 and February 1993).</small><small>

</small><small>

I like that, practically is true nowadays, but sadly was not written by Prabhupada as far as i know, and here said recount by Rohini....</small><small>

</small></small>

[Guruvani]

 

 

and btw, I was never part of the siddha pranali crowd and that is not about to change any time soon.

 

then please show us where you learned this verse and where has any Saraswata Gaudiya acharya ever used or quoted this verse?

How about Bhaktivinode?

 

Please show us where in the Saraswata teachings have you learned this verse you quote earlier:

 

 

 

In Hari-bhakti-vilasa (2.147) Srila Sanatan Goswami quotes Sammohana- tantra: <center>gopayed devatam istam gopayed gurum atmanah

gopayec ca nijam mantram gopayen nija-malikam</center>

 

 

One should hide one's ista-deva, one should hide one's guru, one should hide one's mantra, and one should hide one's japa-mala.

 

 

 

My guess is you learned it on the siddha pranali forums where I myself saw them quoting that verse over and over on their forum.

 

I have never seen the verse appear in any Saraswata Gaudiya commentary.

[Guruvani]

 

<small><small> Statement by Srila Prabhupada in New York in 1968:-

"After me there will be no more Acarya" (recounted by Rohini Kumar Swami in July 1989, November 1991 and February 1993).</small><small>

</small><small>

I like that, practically is true nowadays, but sadly was not written by Prabhupada as far as i know, and here said recount by Rohini....</small><small>

</small></small>

 

Sorry, I have to reject hearsay coming from disciples of Srila Prabhupada.

I only accept written or recorded statements.

 

It might be true, but the authority of the quote is based upon hearsay of a follower of Srila Prabhupada.

That sort of evidence cannot hold up in the kind of debates and discussion happening on forums.

[DCD]

 

Sorry, I have to reject hearsay coming from disciples of Srila Prabhupada.

I only accept written or recorded statements.

 

It might be true, but the authority of the quote is based upon hearsay of a follower of Srila Prabhupada.

That sort of evidence cannot hold up in the kind of debates and discussion happening on forums.

 

 

I am hearing a nice Kirtan by a Srila prabhupada's Disciple

 

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=vMni7HUEUfQ

[Guruvani]

 

I am hearing a nice Kirtan by a Srila prabhupada's Disciple

 

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=vMni7HUEUfQ

 

what has that got to do with the discussion at hand?

 

is this an ad or a promotion of some imitation sakshat hari?

[DCD]

 

what has that got to do with the discussion at hand?

 

is this an ad or a promotion of some imitation sakshat hari?

 

 

promoting the holy name, I am only interested In Prabhupada as guru.

all people can chant the holy name, I am happy when I see poeple chanting the holy name is like the sun purifiy all, the chanter, the people who is hearing.. etc I think you know this.

[Guruvani]

 

promoting the holy name, I am only interested In Prabhupada as guru.

all people can chant the holy name, I am happy when I see poeple chanting the holy name is like the sun purifiy all, the chanter, the people who is hearing.. etc I think you know this.

 

still, this is off topic and just a sentimental journey away from the discussion at hand.

We all could set here all day and post irrelevant posts and videos that tickle our fancy.

Start another topic for your sentimental videos.

 

We had a discussion going on that got derailed with you blurb video that has nothing to do with the topic.

[Svarupa]

 

what has that got to do with the discussion at hand?

 

is this an ad or a promotion of some imitation sakshat hari?

 

I would say its a nice kirtan, its nice to have a kirtan in the middle of philosophy, otherwise we will just dry up