Eternal recurrence and the teachings of Krishna

[Sarva gattah]

 

 

Eternal return (also known as "eternal recurrence") is a concept which posits that the universe has been recurring, and will continue to recur in the exact same self-similar form an incomprehensible and unfathomable number of times. In Western culture the concept has roots in ancient Egypt, and was subsequently taken up by the Pythagoreans and Stoics. With the decline of antiquity and the spread of Christianity, the concept fell into disuse, though Friedrich Nietzsche briefly resurrected it.

 

 

 

 

In addition, the philosophical concept of eternal recurrence was addressed by Arthur Schopenhauer. It is a purely physical concept, involving no "reincarnation," but the return of beings in the same bodies. Time is viewed as being not linear but cyclical.

 

 

 

 

The basic premise is that the universe is limited in extent and contains a finite amount of matter, while time is viewed as being infinite. The universe has no starting or ending state, while the matter comprising it is constantly changing its state. The number of possible changes is finite, and so sooner or later the same state will recur.

 

 

 

 

Physicists such as Stephen Hawking and J. Richard Gott have proposed models by which the (or a) universe could undergo time travel, provided the balance between mass and energy created the appropriate cosmological geometry. More philosophical concepts from physics, such as Hawking's "arrow of time," for example, discuss cosmology as proceeding up to a certain point, whereafter it undergoes a time reversal (which, as a consequence of T-symmetry, is thought to bring about a chaotic state due to thermodynamic entropy).

 

 

 

 

The thought of eternal recurrence is central to the writings of Friedrich Nietzsche. As Heidegger pointed out, Nietzsche never speaks about the reality of "eternal recurrence" itself, but about the "thought of eternal recurrence." Nietzsche conceived of the idea as a simple "hypothesis", which, like the idea of Hell in Christianity, did not need to be true in order to have real effects. The thought of eternal recurrence appears in a few parts of his works, in particular 125 and 341 of The Gay Science and then in Thus Spoke Zarathustra.. It is also noted for the first time in his posthumous fragment of 1881 (11 [143]). The experience of this thought is dated by Nietzsche himself, in the posthumous fragments, to August 1881, at Sils-Maria. In Ecce Homo (1888), he wrote that the thought of the Eternal Return was the "fundamental conception" of Thus Spoke Zarathustra

 

 

All the above mundane speculators have missunderstood the most important aspect of existence in the material world and that is we are not the biological bodies or vessels we presently and briefly possess, such vessels always remain the property of the maha-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.

 

 

The mahat-tattva’s innermost secrets revealed that reveals the Vedic truth of eternal recurrence.

 

 

As already explained, the marginal living entities in their nitya-baddha dreaming bodiless consciousness enters the dreams of Maha-Vishnu within the perishable and impermanent mahat-tattva (real but temporary from the nitya-baddha’s perspective or view of reality) and in the process, forgets the higher self of their marginal personality (nitya-siddha-svarupa body) however, on returning to their full Krishna Conscious svarupa body, the experience of billions of lives absorbed in material bodily costumes will be totally insignificant to the point that it never happened.

 

 

 

 

Darkness cannot be left over in the presents of light because light dissipates all darkness

 

 

In other words while there is light, darkness does not exist similarly when one is situated as their full potential Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa body, the nitya-baddha consciousness does not exist. Therefore ones svarupa body is always Krishna Conscious and is always absorbed in serving Krishna and not even aware that their inferior nitya-baddha consciousness even exists because factually it does not exist if one is fully Krishna conscious.

 

When ones nitya-baddha consciousness dissipates on its journey back to its nitya-siddha body origins, the nitya-baddha consciousness begins to fad as it its layers of self interested dreams desires and thoughts in the mahat-tattva (remember the nitya-baddha jiva-tattva is an bodiless consciousness) are replaced with Krishna Consciousness. When the nitya-baddha consciousness has been fully dissipated, that instance coincides with ones entrance into Vaikuntha and the simultaneous event where one becomes aware of their genuine nitya-siddha-svarupa rasa bodily personality and identity to the point they are concerned or even possibly remember that they had been in a dreaming condition in the first place. This is due to the perpetual concept of the ‘eternal present’ that is eternally devoid of past and future in Goloka-Vrndavana and Vaikuntha, beyond material time and space born from the existence of the phenomenon of past, present and future that can only exist in the mahat-tattva.

 

Keep in mind when absolute knowledge is realized, all the ethereal and material bodily vessels within the mahat-tattva or material creation are not only counterfeit bodies or vehicles the nitya-baddha (jiva/soul) consciousness is provided with by Maha-Vishnu, but also are ‘posts’ or ‘rented costumes outfits worn in Maha-Vishnu’s stage drama of material existence’ where the nitya-baddha consciousness wears to act out the already conceived part according to the script (dream) of Maha-Vishnu that eternally exists already as part and parcel of His maha-tattva creation. In other words such costumes worn by the visiting nitya-baddha consciousness are always there in blue print every time the mahat-tattva is re-created by Maha-Vishnu after its annihilation.

 

It must be clearly understood that the perpetual present exists in the entire Spiritual Sky that includes the mahat-tattva except within the mahat-tattva the eternal presents is divided up into past, present and future that ‘appears’ to have a decaying effect on all ethereal and biological bodies and their surroundings. Like frames in a movie film where each frame always exists together and at the same time as a part of the over all film canister or cylinder similarly, the material ethereal and biological costumes always exist from its birth, to youth, middle age and death. Each step of the vessel or body is like the frame in the film canister and that canister is compared to the mahat-tattva. Just like a film is made up of frame by frame pictures, the bodily costume and their surrounding that are both decorations and ornaments that are part of the mahat-tattva, are also divided into frame by frame realities that are within the perpetual blue-print of the mahat-tattva that the nitya-baddha consciousness simply passes through.

 

 

 

The facilities or bodily costumes and their entire pathway from birth to death, is provided by Maha-Vishnu. We are simply passengers in His bodily creations playing out His dreams that simultaneously are also our dreams that cannot be fulfilled without the provisions of Maha-Vishnu.

 

 

. It may come as a surprise to some that the present bodily vessel we are passengers in are also available in another time and place when the mahat-tattva is again recreated for other nitya-baddha consciousness to ‘lease’ off Maha-Vishnu. Very few devotees even understand this in our present primitive 21st century irreligious materialist age and is frankly, not meant for all devotees to understand. For most of us it’s like trying to understand PhD level quantum physics at Harvard University from the 3<SUP>rd</SUP> grade in primary school.

In the past this was understood by many great devotees, jnani’s and scholars but rarely discussed due to the inability by many to understand and therefore has been dismissed as speculation and Impersonalism however, one can understand that the nature of the mahat-tattva from the Srimad-Bhagvatam and other Vedic texts is a place of Impersonalism, after all the nitya-baddha consciousness has no permanent body and is always changing bodies because the extended consciousness or bodiless consciousness, that originates from ones nitya-siddha perpetual rasa or svarupa body in Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha, has no factual body because it is only made up of non-Krishna conscious dreams, desires and thoughts of self importance which is the legitimate right of all marginal living entities if they desire to pursue.

 

Krishna never forces anyone to stay in His perpetual Kingdom, if they want to leave Krishna and their nitya-siddha body they serve Krishna as, Krishna will not stop them however, everything they achieve after possessing the ethereal body of Brahma and spending many life times in the heavenly planets, only to further fall to the middle secular biological planets where their biological vessel becomes further covered by a biological human form. From that biological human platform, every pleasure and painful situation is based on their own actions.

 

The mahat-tattva is already set in an eternal atmosphere of past, present, and future that has the left over effect of impermanence and decay. Even so, the mahat-tattva is part of the perpetual Spiritual Sky and is also eternal.. It is the nitya-baddha consciousness that perceives the material universe as a temporary phenomanon goverened by past. present and future, moving through the material energy like a tidal wave moves through the ocean.

 

Technically because the mahat-tattva is also in the Spiritual universe, it is eternal and it is simply the consciousness of the of the nitya-baddha passing through just like how one views the frame by frame vision of a moving picture. The implications of this knowledge are extraordinary and not easily understood and even perilous and dangerous to those who continue to think they ‘own’ their material body (ethereal and biological container the nitya-baddha consciousness is absorbed in) or think they ‘are’ their material vessel nevertheless, one thing is certain – we are certainly not the ethereal and biological bodies supplied to us by Maha-Vishnu that so many nitya-baddhas before us have travelled through and so many after us will travel through for all eternity within the mahat-tattva.

 

 

 

The occurrence of 'moving time' outside of the 'eternal present' (Goloka) only appears to exists from the view point of the inferior nitya-baddha secondary self in the perishable mahat-tattva due to that phenomenon of past, present and future whose fruits are decay, forgettfulness and impermanance, where as only the 'imperishable presents' exists in the perpetual Goloka-Vrndavana and Vaikuntha. This devotional reality is the full potential and genuin identity of the marginal living entity which is their full superior krishna Conscious nitya-siddha or nitya-mukta self.

 

 

The fact is the mahat-tattva is not only real but is also perpetual like the Vaikunthas however, due to its Impersonal aspect, it actually does not move at all, it is only moved by the nitya-baddha consciousness or life force according to the overall plan of the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. Every aspect of the mahat-tattva is eternally in place and the nitya-baddha consciousness just passes through what is already there yet experiences the phenomena of ‘time division’ past, present and future and its by product of impermanence, birth, disease, old age and death. If one can step out of their biological body, it is possible to see the entire pathway that the ethereal and biological body traverses in both direction of past and future as Arjuna was shown by Krishna.

 

ALL marginal living entities have a two fold consciousness; one is the nitya-siddha perpetual body which is the real permanent fullness of all marginal living entities, being their genuine svarupa personality, identity and bodily form in Goloka in the perpetual present, while the other is the inferior nitya-baddha bodiless dreaming non-Krishna consciousness that can only exists in divided time of past, present and future in the mahat-tattva or unaware of past, present and future in the Impersonal Brahmajyoti or tatastha condition of consciousness. The secret book of origins 2007

[Sarva gattah]

This inferior nitya-baddha dreaming consciousness exists at the same time as ones nitya-siddha body; yet in a different dimensions of time, (the ‘eternal present’ in Goloka adjacent to the ‘past, present and future of the mahat-tattva’) actually there is never a time when the nitya-siddha-svarupa body did not exist as its originally fullness serving Krishna.

Just like one is dreaming in their present and so absorbed in those dreams that they forget their present body, in a similarly way the dreaming nitya-baddha consciousness is thedreaming state of the marginal living entity when they forget their nitya-siddha body. Such nitya-baddha dreams are out of sync with the eternal time their nitya-siddha body serves Krishna in which is also known as the‘perpetual present’.

When the nitya-baddha consciousness extends from one constitutional nitya-siddha marginal identity, it enters into the mahat-tattva (material creation) and into the dreams of Maha-Vishnu. The nitya-baddha consciousness is then provided first with an ethereal or celestial containment and then eventually the further covering of biological vessels so one can seek out their independent desires and dreams.

All ethereal and biological bodily vessels in the mahat-tattva are like ornaments and decorations that are part and parcel of a lounge room or house. In a related way such vessels or containers that carry the nitya-baddha consciousness or jiva soul, are also permanent fixtures that not only decorate the mahat-tattva, bur ARE the mahat-tattva or material creation.

Such vessels or decorative ornaments like Brahma; the demigods and all ethereal and biological bodies that contain the soul, are actually eternal posts in the sense that the vessel housing the jiva soul, is always reiterating its existence in every new creation of the mahat-tattva. The embodied jiva souls or nitya-baddha consciousness however, is not part of the mahat-tattva and therefore do not reiterate as the bodily garments they are temporarily absorbed in do.In other wordsit is only the ethereal and biological vessel that contains the jiva soul, which is eternally repeating its existence over aeons of time due to being controlled by past, present and future. A time so, so longs that all the material elements eventually repeat themselves.

It must be made clear though that each time the mahat-tattva is re-created by Maha-Vishnu and repeats its existence, there is always a different jiva soulpossessing the bodily containers we are presently in because such vessels have ultimately nothing to do with the jiva soul, the jiva soul has only possessed such bodily containers. In actual fact such ethereal and biological bodily vesselsare eternally the property and therefore part of Maha-Vishnu’s impermanent mahat-tattva creation. Such vessels, containers or bodies are repeatedly given out by Maha-Vishnu to an unlimited number of visiting nitya-baddha consciousnesses over multiple creations. Many before us in another time and space have passed through the body we are presently in and have lived the exact same life we are presently living. All vessels in the mahat-tattva therefore are part and parcel of the mahat-tattva, non-different from the mahat-tattva. In this way the mahat-tattva is created then annihilated then recreated again and again and again and again only to eventually repeat itself. This is possible and a fact due to time having no beginning or end. The mahat-tattva appears, disappears and reappears in one corner of the Spiritual Sky with all its bodily vessels, eternally. Such vessels are already in place for the mostly dreaming marginal living entities nitya-baddha consciousnesses to visit and live out their non-Krishna conscious fantasies. Entering the mahat-tattva is like entering a clothing shop or fantasy dress shop that hires out clothing, one wears them for a while then returns them and eventually someone else hires out those same cloths. Our ethereal and biological bodies are like the cloths in the dress shop or fantasy dress shop. This clearly means the bodily vessel one is in now has had an unlimited number of other nitya-baddha consciousnesses pass through it on their journey to where ever their desires and dreams lead them too.

This also means that Srila Prabhupadas pure bodily vessel is also a post for a visiting nitya-siddha every time this universe is re-created, rather than the mostly nitya-baddhas who come to the mahat-tattva. The nitya-siddha devotees are always in their original form when they come, but disguise themselves with an external garment or vessel so they can play out their role for Krishna’s pleasure in the mahat-tattva. Such great souls are never under the spell of Mayadevi like the nitya-baddhas are. In time, when an aspiring devotees or sanyasi become genuine and pure, such pure devotees reveal who they really are however, that is on the highest level of advancement in Krishna Conscious selfless devotion and must be earned with humility, selflessness, devotion and understanding the vessel you are presently in is not who you are, in fact many before you and others after you in another time, place and space in a another mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu, will also experience the exact same ‘bodily’ life you have lead, also falsely believing the bodily vessel you are in is exclusively ‘you’. This is all possible and actually completely natural because of the two aspects of time without beginning or end. The eternal presents in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, that same eternal presents IS divided into past, present and future within the maha-tattva or material creation. However if a nitya-baddha is qualified to take on the post of Brahma or even the vessel purely dedicated to spreading Krishna Consciousness, then they too can also play out that role of a pure devotee in that vessel and begin to spread Krishna Consciousness all over the world as Srila Prabhupada has done.

 

 

 

For those who find this hard to believe or understand this explanation, remember, in Goloka Srila Prabhupada has a youthful eternal imperishable body, the bodily vessel he spoke through while on this earth, even though pure, was only a garment, a vessel or a container that carried a nitya-siddha devotee of Krishna. The real identity, name and spiritual body of ‘Srila Prabhupada’ is presently a mystery to the majority of us until we are genuinely pure enough for him to reveal himself to us.No one other than Srila Prabhupada can give us such a gift of knowing his relationship with Krishna and who he really is.

 

 

 

Those Gurus, who genuinely represent Srila Prabhupada in the disciplic succession, can also reveal the absolute truth to their disciples when they are ready or advanced enough to understand. Unfortunately our Spiritual understanding at the beginning of the 21<SUP>st</SUP> century is extremely primitive, fanatical and sentimental and what is written here is not be appreciated by such so called devotees because they cannot understand they are not the biological bodily vessel they are in and that Srila Prabhpada’s vessel is also a garment and is not who he really is in Goloka.

The concept of ‘bodily posts’ possessed by the visiting nitya-baddha consciousness is exactly what is happening from Lord Brahma’s ethereal vessel right down to the lowest biological form of life. In the case of Brahma a nitya-siddha may take that possession or if no nitya-siddha or nitya baddha is available, then Maha-Vishnu will perform that role. It is not so bizarre when you understand how the mahat-tattva works in divided time of past, present and future, knowing that in time a time comes along when everything is repeated. This understanding is probably not meant or ready for such a young immature simplistic and materially addicted pioneering primitive spirituality of the early 21<SUP>st</SUP> century nevertheless, for those who are knowledgeable enough to understand, it is a perfectly legitimate and natural way the mahat-tattva is eternally repeating itself with different souls playing out those ethereal and biological posts eternally. This is certainly another twist in understanding – ‘You are not that material body’

The secret book of origins 2007

[Guruvani]

I didn't see a single shastric reference in the above posts.

 

Is that what Srila Prabhupada wanted his followers to do?

Is endless speculation and fabrication of ideas what Krishna consciousness is all about?

 

I hardly think that books written by devotees to turn a profit are worth anyone's serious attention.

 

I have no doubt Srila Prabhupada would totally condemn such speculation and fabrication as we see in this topic.

 

This stuff is mundane rubbish.

It won't help anyone attain enlightenment or knowledge.

 

Mental mushrooms growing from the cow plop of the mind.

That is what all this foolish rambling amounts to.

[Sarva gattah]

 

I didn't see a single shastric reference in the above posts.

 

Is that what Srila Prabhupada wanted his followers to do?

Is endless speculation and fabrication of ideas what Krishna consciousness is all about?

 

I hardly think that books written by devotees to turn a profit are worth anyone's serious attention.

 

I have no doubt Srila Prabhupada would totally condemn such speculation and fabrication as we see in this topic.

 

This stuff is mundane rubbish.

It won't help anyone attain enlightenment or knowledge.

 

Mental mushrooms growing from the cow plop of the mind.

That is what all this foolish rambling amounts to.

 

I don't expect a mundane bodily attached fool like you to understand! Go and annoy some elses thread with your bogus ideas! Your body and mind is no better than a low life barking dog!!!

[Sarva gattah]

 

 

Guruvani you will not even accept the fact we all originate from Goloka and not from some Impersonal Brahmajyoti as other nonsense so called Vaishnava camps believe.

 

 

Srila Prabhupada - "So even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that "Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?" I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, sometimes he may think that "If I could become the master." They are thinking like that, they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he's wrongly thinking". Taped Converation with Pusta Krsna Swami 1976

 

Srila Prabhupada – “Whatever it may be, the falldown is there. So because we are living entities, we are not as powerful as Krishna, therefore we may fall down from vaikuntha at any moment. iccha-dvesa samutthena sarge yanti parantapa. find out this verse” . Taped Converation with Pusta Krsna Swami 1976

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Srila Prabhupada – “We never had any occasion when we were separated from Krishna. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the "seen" disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972

Srila Prabhupada – “Our separation from Krishna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krishna desire for sense gratification is there. There is a dormant attitude for forgetting Krishna and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently. Just like at the edge of the beach, sometimes the water covers, sometimes there is dry sand, coming and going. Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972

Srila Prabhupada – “We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krishna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. formerly we were with Krishna in his lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration, therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. But his long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to Krishna consciousness. Just like in a dream we are thinking very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only. Just like with Krishna’s friends, they were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and Krishna returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972

[Guruvani]

 

I don't expect a mundane bodily attached fool like you to understand! Go and annoy some elses thread with your bogus ideas! Your body and mind is no better than a low life barking dog!!!

Your topics are always full of speculation and fabrications.

This is the kind of deviation that made Srila Prabhupada furious.

 

Srila Prabhupada tolerated a lot of things, but the one thing that angered him the most was when devotees fabricate, concoct and speculate.

 

This kind of speculation and fabncation is a waste of everyone's time.

 

It's just so much gibberish.

 

Actually, I think it is mostly a lame publicity stunt to attract attention to some bogus book written by a Hare Krishna mental case.

 

This thread is not a topic.

It's just propaganda meant for defending the bogus conceptions propagated in a bogus book written by some Hare Krishna.

 

The book is bogus.

[Sarva gattah]

As you think you think the whole world thinks? Just because you cannot understand, it doen't mean others, including myself, have understanding of the mahat-tattva. Do you understand what the material world is or are you still a closet Christain who think they are their bodily vessel.

 

Your out of your league Gurvani, this subject is way, way too advanced for your megger intelligence and mind to comprehend - don't critize what you cannot understand. You cannot even understand the teachings of Srila Prabhupada when he clearly tells us we all come from Vaikuntha.

 

"It may come as a surprise to some that the present bodily vessel we are passengers in are also available in another time and place when the mahat-tattva is again recreated for other nitya-baddha consciousness to ‘lease’ off Maha-Vishnu. Very few devotees even understand this fact in our present primitive 21st century irreligious materialist age and is frankly, not meant for all devotees to understand. For most of us it’s like trying to understand PhD level quantum physics at Harvard University from the 3<SUP>rd</SUP> grade in primary school". Maybe your not ready for this absolute truth because your present advancement 'can't handle the truth' That body YOU ARE IN has not only been your body over eternity. Its only on loan from Maha-Vishnu.

[Guruvani]

 

As you think you think the whole world thinks? Just because you cannot understand, it doen't mean others, including myself, have understanding of the mahat-tattva. Do you understand what the material world is or are you still a closet Christain who think they are their bodily vessel.

 

Your out of your league Gurvani, this subject is way, way too advanced for your megger intelligence and mind to comprehend - don't critize what you cannot understand. You cannot even understand the teachings of Srila Prabhupada when he clearly tells us we all come from Vaikuntha.

 

"It may come as a surprise to some that the present bodily vessel we are passengers in are also available in another time and place when the mahat-tattva is again recreated for other nitya-baddha consciousness to ‘lease’ off Maha-Vishnu. Very few devotees even understand this fact in our present primitive 21st century irreligious materialist age and is frankly, not meant for all devotees to understand. For most of us it’s like trying to understand PhD level quantum physics at Harvard University from the 3^rd grade in primary school". Maybe your not ready for this absolute truth because your present advancement 'can't handle the truth' That body YOU ARE IN has not only been your body over eternity. Its only on loan from Maha-Vishnu.

 

 

You are obvioulsy afraid to consult shastra regarding the issues you claim to have all the answers to based upon speculation and misinterpretation of a few letters Srila Prabhupada wrote to some neophyte devotees.

 

I know you fear shastra and stay away from shastra because you really don't want to face the fact that you are propagating bogus siddhanta and misrepresenting Srila Prabhupada.

 

Your theories are rubbish misinterpretations based upon some letters to some neophyte devotees.

 

You avoid shastra because it is a fact that in shastra your foolish theory falls to pieces like a house of cards.

 

You should be in a padded cell somewhere where you can't do any harm to yourself and others.

[Sarva gattah]

In the past this was understood by many great devotees of Krishna, jnani’s and scholars but rarely discussed due to the inability by many to understand and therefore has been dismissed as speculation and Impersonalism however, one can understand that the nature of the mahat-tattva from the Srimad-Bhagvatam and other Vedic texts is a place of Impersonalism, after all the nitya-baddha consciousness has no permanent body and is always changing bodies because the extended consciousness or bodiless consciousness, that originates from ones nitya-siddha perpetual rasa or svarupa body in Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha, has no factual body because it is only made up of non-Krishna conscious dreams, desires and thoughts of self importance which is the legitimate right of all marginal living entities if they desire to pursue.

Krishna never forces anyone to stay in His perpetual Kingdom, if they want to leave Krishna and their nitya-siddha body they serve Krishna as, Krishna will not stop them however, everything they achieve after possessing the ethereal body of Brahma and spending many life times in the heavenly planets, only to further fall to the middle secular biological planets where their biological vessel becomes further covered by a biological human form. From that biological human platform, every pleasure and painful situation is based on their own actions.

 

The mahat-tattva is already set in an eternal atmosphere of past, present, and future that has the left over effect of impermanence and decay. Even so, the mahat-tattva is part of the perpetual Spiritual Sky and is also eternal.. It is the nitya-baddha consciousness that perceives the material universe as a temporary phenomanon goverened by past. present and future, moving through the material energy like a tidal wave moves through the ocean.

 

[Guruvani]

You just don't get it do you?

Your own words mean nothing.

Shastra is the only source to answer philosophical questions.

You can't spew out your own mental ramblings and expect anyone to take you seriously.

 

You can never win the debate because you can't support your theory with shastric evidence.

 

All you have in your arsenal is a few letters from Srila Prabhupada that you misinterpet and twist to support your bogus theory.

 

There is not a single piece of evidence that the gopis and cowherd boys in Vrindavan fall down to become worms in stool.

 

Such a proposal is ridiculous.

 

Srila Prabhupada never said such a thing.

Even if he did it would just be a preaching tactic and not actual shastric siddhanta.

 

I have solid shastric evidence to totally blow your foolish theory to kingdom come, but I am not wasting my research on your crazy topics.

 

In fact, I am just setting on it myself for a while to just see how foolish this fall-from-Goloka theory can get.

 

Then, when it's time I will make fools out of all the fall-from-goloka theorists with solid shastric evidence that is going to expose them all as ignorant of shastric knowledge.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

There have been enough "fall of the soul" threads in the last few weeks. They have all ended up getting closed, so it is obvious that the same arguments will arise in any thread on this topic. Everyone has made their own points. So there will be no more "fall of the soul" threads allowed for the next few months. I have asked the moderators to delete any future threads that come up on this topic.

 

And we really aren't interested in people posting their books here in the discussion forum. Discussions are personal dialogues between people. All of this copy/paste spamming that has been going on by several people needs to stop. Already one such person was banned for this a few days ago.