From Caru's Newsletter: Ramesvara Dasa at LA Ratha Yatra

[mahak]

This was common. Especially in LA. But Im not so sure any of it is really feigned, it was just a trait developed by association, seen in the classes of Jayatirtha, the long time leader of new dwaraka. Ramaswara was his student, and students develop mannerisms of who they hear from. This is a natural thing, if jayatirtha slurrs his words when speaking of krsna, seems to have hair standing on end, ramaswara will have these things too. Everyone was talking like a 70 year old indian aristocrat back in those days, accent an all. New York jews and California druids alike.

 

Never thought Id say it, but thats what was good about Karandhar. He brought balance. He spoke (and acted) like an outlaw biker. In retrospect, maybe I really liked the guy, this is why I liked gurukrpa even though he hated me. See, this is why we need association, eh????

 

As far as burden placed on him from young age, this is not the way it was. There was much calculated scheming, seen much in corporation board rooms, to get to his position. His youth was not a problem nor a reason for what followed. The ULTERIOR MOTIVE is what laid waste to the zonal acarya sham.

 

hb, mahak

[Guruvani]

 

You make him sound like a scared kid.

 

That is not what I am saying.

I am just saying that I was living in the L.A. temple for a year at the same time Ramesvar was there and I just didn't make any personal contact with him like I did many other devotees.

Scared?

I don't think so.

He just seemed like he didn't have good people skills and kind of lived in his own little world.

He seemed hyper and very passionate.

He didn't seem to have the calmness one looks for in spiritual personalities.

 

Hey, I could be wrong.

Many senior devotees introduced themselves to me when I became a new devotee at the L.A. temple and welcomed me to the movement.

Ramesvar just blasted right by me and I don't remember him even giving me a smile or a nod.

I was like the invisible man to Ramesvar.

 

Maybe that is why I have these uncertain perspectives on Ramesvar.

He just never took his head out of the clouds long enough to relate with me on a personal level.

 

As such, I have always had a weird perception of Ramesvar.

It might just be me, because like I said I never really got to vibe him on a one to one level.

[Guruvani]

 

This was common. Especially in LA. But Im not so sure any of it is really feigned, it was just a trait developed by association, seen in the classes of Jayatirtha, the long time leader of new dwaraka. Ramaswara was his student, and students develop mannerisms of who they hear from. This is a natural thing, if jayatirtha slurrs his words when speaking of krsna, seems to have hair standing on end, ramaswara will have these things too.

I have never seen or heard of Jayatirtha showing ecstatic symptoms during the Prabhupada-era.

What I remember of Jayatirtha during the Prabhupada-era was a very sober and serious devotee that appeared very straight-up.

 

To my knowledge, Jayatirtha didn't start showing his "bhavas" until after the disappearance of Srila Prabhupada and his delving into LSD and whatever drugs he was using.

 

There was no gossip or talking about Jayatirtha and his "bhavas" when I was in L.A. in 1975 and he was reporting directly to Srila Prabhupada as GBC of L.A.

 

I think that situation evolved after the passing of Srila Prabhupada.

[suchandra]

 

I have never seen or heard of Jayatirtha showing ecstatic symptoms during the Prabhupada-era.

What I remember of Jayatirtha during the Prabhupada-era was a very sober and serious devotee that appeared very straight-up.

 

To my knowledge, Jayatirtha didn't start showing his "bhavas" until after the disappearance of Srila Prabhupada and his delving into LSD and whatever drugs he was using.

 

There was no gossip or talking about Jayatirtha and his "bhavas" when I was in L.A. in 1975 and he was reporting directly to Srila Prabhupada as GBC of L.A.

 

I think that situation evolved after the passing of Srila Prabhupada.

 

I knew Jayatirtha quite well since he was my GBC for 2 years. When I heard that story about what happened in London I didnt believe it. He was such a sincere person, Prabhupada entrusted him to be Minister of Deity worship, it was to me like a complot made up to get rid of him.

[theist]

 

He appeared to have been a nerdy type school boy who lived in his own little world unable to relate with his classmates.

 

This was my first impression of Ramesvara and there is truth in it. My first meeting was soon after he joined the Portland temple. I started coming around as a guest. One evening I accompanied the temple to Reed college where Robert Grant (Ramesvara) was going to give a lecture. Ramesvara had been a student at Reed. Reed was a private school with very high standards. Not for dummies.

 

The lecture was given in a classroom and only three students showed up to hear. Robert just spoke from his notes and delivered what sounded like a very intellectual presentation of Krsna consciousness. I say sounded like because I had no idea what he was talking about as it all just sailed over my head. The thing that struck me was, even though those three students were just a few feet away from him he spoke past them and just into the air in an impersonal manner, rarely if ever making eye contact with them.

 

Not a ground level kinda person like say Vishnujana, who was Iskcon's Narada Muni. But that was his nature which he brought to engage in Krsna consciousness. Everyone has his strengths and weaknesses. Murali's point of how young these guys were can't be emphasized enough. I mean at the time he looked old to me having gone through college but then I was still in high school.

 

I knew they would all come back to Krsna consciousness at some point because in spite of the disasterous failings at the end their good service to Srila Prabhupada still stands.

 

I see the danger, for them as well as others, lying in the fact that for many of them coming back to Krsna consciousness may mean reentering Iskcon where a replay of some sort is likely to happen.

 

Better for Ramesvara, (and others in that position), if they keep their institutional involvement to a minimum and develop themselves in a more private way. Especially considering the seriously flawed system Iskcon has set up with their ecclesiastial nonsense still in place.

 

I wish him well, and offer my respects, but from a distance.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

I *know* that is not what you are saying--It's what *I'm* saying!

 

From the description you give, I take it that he was a scared kid. What you interpret as arrogance, I interpret as painful shyness and a coping mechanism.

 

Behind most arrogance (perhaps the arrogance that you (or I) occasionally demonstrate) is a deep-rooted insecurity.

 

What is clear is: if one is fully-surrendered to the Lord, there is no reason to fall-down. The fact that there was a "fall-down" indicates that there was some disruption to his faith. We can acknowledge that in a compassionate way without placing blame or passing judgement.

 

 

That is not what I am saying.

I am just saying that I was living in the L.A. temple for a year at the same time Ramesvar was there and I just didn't make any personal contact with him like I did many other devotees.

Scared?

I don't think so.

He just seemed like he didn't have good people skills and kind of lived in his own little world.

He seemed hyper and very passionate.

He didn't seem to have the calmness one looks for in spiritual personalities.

 

Hey, I could be wrong.

Many senior devotees introduced themselves to me when I became a new devotee at the L.A. temple and welcomed me to the movement.

Ramesvar just blasted right by me and I don't remember him even giving me a smile or a nod.

I was like the invisible man to Ramesvar.

 

Maybe that is why I have these uncertain perspectives on Ramesvar.

He just never took his head out of the clouds long enough to relate with me on a personal level.

 

As such, I have always had a weird perception of Ramesvar.

It might just be me, because like I said I never really got to vibe him on a one to one level.

[Guruvani]

 

 

Behind most arrogance (perhaps the arrogance that you (or I) occasionally demonstrate) is a deep-rooted insecurity.

Maybe for you, but for me my arrogance is humor based.

People that know me personally know I am not an arrogant person.

 

I feign arrogance because it is my own crazy way of being humble.

Sometimes it is more humble to make oneself the object of ridicule than it is to try and present oneself as Mr. Nice Guy that wants everybody to join his fan club.

 

I really could care less about having a fan club on the forum.

Most of us need to have our cages rattled regularly to keep us from getting too pleased with ourselves.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Most of us need to have our cages rattled regularly to keep us from getting to pleased with ourselves.

 

"too pleased", not "to pleased"

 

I agree though!!

[Guruvani]

 

"too pleased", not "to pleased"

 

I agree though!!

 

I caught it before you even mentioned it, but if you want to get nit-picky I could mention your sentence fragment.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

I caught it before you even mentioned it, but if you want to get nit-picky I could mention your sentence fragment.

 

It might be a sentence fragment, but at least I didn't put any punctuation after it (or does a smiley-face count as punctuation in the 21st century?).

 

Please *do* smack me around a bit if I get too cocky, mental, or in any other way offensive!!

[mahak]

 

I have never seen or heard of Jayatirtha showing ecstatic symptoms during the Prabhupada-era.

What I remember of Jayatirtha during the Prabhupada-era was a very sober and serious devotee that appeared very straight-up.

 

To my knowledge, Jayatirtha didn't start showing his "bhavas" until after the disappearance of Srila Prabhupada and his delving into LSD and whatever drugs he was using.

 

There was no gossip or talking about Jayatirtha and his "bhavas" when I was in L.A. in 1975 and he was reporting directly to Srila Prabhupada as GBC of L.A.

 

I think that situation evolved after the passing of Srila Prabhupada.

 

mahak: Dont get me wrong, I thought jayatirtha was absolutely awesome. I remember the road show, with Bahudaka, Kamala dd, and the others. I thought his lectures were awesome as well, and the interaction between him and Srila Prabhupada were something to behold. What I am speaking of is mannerisms, and this is not imitation of ecstatic symproms, just mannerisms, the dry mouth, the slurring of words, etc. I know this took place before, because I last saw my brother in 1972. This is natural, but others were quite contrived, practiced, if you know what I mean. I spent 7 years in Hawaii, from 72-79, and I still speak da kine. I hung with the rastas in BC in the early nineties, and te fea jah meen to fea no mon. Natural, not contrived, but my point is that rami may have been imitating jayatirtha, because in 72, everyone looked up to him.

 

Personally, I think JT is paid in full, and still Prabhupadas tirtha.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guruvani]

 

(or does a smiley-face count as punctuation in the 21st century?).

 

Smileys are punctuation on steroids, so, I am sorry we can't let you get away with this one.

[shiva]

I might as well thow my 2 paisa into this discussion since I had some personal relationships with Ramesvara and Jayatirtha.

 

I actually was initiated by Ramesvara in 1978 and used to serve him personally from time to time in his apartments serving food, not often though. We had a relationship which was not what could be considered a traditional guru disciple relationship. I had become a serious devotee around the time Srila Prabhupada left the planet. I spent a lot of time at the temple but didn't move in until 3-4 months after he had left when I finally became convinced that I needed to move into the temple and give all my time and energy to ISKCON. By that time Ramesvara had become the guru for the zone and for me it was an exciting time. This was probably the high point of ISKCON history because ISKCON had not yet experienced the mass leaving of Prabhupada disciples and I was in the place with the largest devotee population.

 

Mangal arati in Los Angeles in 1978 was an amazing experience. The entire temple was packed shoulder to shoulder and the kirtan leaders were usually people with good singing ability (Jayasacinandana, Agnideva etc). It was ecstatic to have kirtan with some three hundred of devotees singing and dancing enthusiastically in such a nice temple. A few years later Mangal arati would dwindle in size and potency as many people left. But in 1978 it was awesome in size and enthusiam. We used to go out on harinams I think on friday nights to some popular place with close to one hundred people, maybe more at times. We used school buses to transport everyone. We would chant in one place and it was quite a scene. ISKCON seemed invincible at that time. Especially from where I was. Sunday feasts were huge operations. There were pandal tents set up, all kinds of wonderfully opulent prasad being sold in front of the temple by maybe 20 different devotee vendors. They would set up and cook outside all kinds of wonderful things including hot jalebis and samosas and many other tasty treats. There was also the free feast but this was extra prasadam. There were often times Indian performers doing some dance and play recital or gurukulis or others. The sunday feast was a real festival with huge crowds every week.

 

Ramesvara was the man. I was told that he was my guru when I moved in the asrama. I had no chance to really size him up and see if he was qualified it was simply expected of me that I would accept him as my guru. Which I did. He actually never has had a conversation with me of any type. During the "christmans marathons" he would be waiting for us in the money counting room when we got back late at night from collecting in order to see how we had done. I was not a good collecter, I could have been if I had tried harder, but I was not enthusiastic for that service, I found it to be boring. I remember coming back without a lot of money and Ramesvara sitting there asking me how I did as I counted the money, when I told him he was not happy.

 

Occasionally I would do personal service in his apartments i.e serve him his prasadam. He was fed like a deity, except more opulently, although he was not a big eater, most of the food would be given to the server to distribute to others or eat on his own. I also was the food server at the famous GBC meetings in L.A. back in I think it was 1979 or maybe 1980 when all the gurus and GBC came to discuss what to do about Jayatirtha, Hansadutta, Tamal Krishna, and maybe Bhavananda, and also Sridhar Maharaja. All the gurus and sannyasis and GBC would eat and meet in Ramesvaras apartment. I would bring the prasadam into the kitchen and set it up for them and I got to see some them show their personalities away from the show they put on for the adoring masses. Ramesvara was always pretty much the same wherever he was, although he seemed to be very chummy with the other leaders. He was a very intense person with a sense of entitlement about him. I think Jahnava Nitai said Ramesvara was acarya for only 3-4 years, that's not quite accurate. he had total control from the time Srila Prabhupada left until 1986, that's 8 years.

 

Ramesvara was an elitist devotee. I think we have all seen those types of devotees in ISKCON who take themselves very seriously and who wouldn't or don't relate to devotees they consider beneath them if they didn't absolutely have to. They don't make friends with devotees unless the devotee is seen as being on the same level (Since this article is also about Caru, he was also one of these types of elites with an attitude problem. Once when I worked for him on the traveling India festival he threatened all of us that if we ever walked out on him he would ruin our devotee careers. A month later I walked out on him because of his abusive treatment). For example, I was friends with all the common devotees, the elitist devotees tended to look down on us in a kind of boss-worker relationship mode. We all knew it and in turn this created clear class distinctions which created a camaraderie amongst the hoi polloi who then related to the elites similar to how people in regular jobs relate to each other and the elites. What I mean is that often in regular jobs where many people work together you have the boss and his lieutenants with one mindset and you have everyone else in another. The common people usually are friends and socialize together while the boss and his lieutenants or sycophants do not socialize or treat the common workers as friends. There develops an antagonistic social system which pits the leaders against the common folk. The common folk usually speak ill of and laugh at their boss and his sycophants behind their backs because the leaders develop an antipathy to the common workers as being beneath them and treat them as such instead of as friends. This is exactly what went on where I was at. Ramesvara was part of the elitist clique who took their position of authority too seriously when it came to dealing with others. They didn't see any need to relate with common devotees in any other relationship other then boss-worker because they saw themselves as people with a DESTINY! They took/take themselves very seriously as divinely inspired and with some idea of themselves as special people with a special destiny and want others to take them very seriously as well while treating those not in leadership positions as beneath them refusing to treat them as friends.

 

Some people were saying that we shouldn't have expected such inexperienced devotees to make intelligent decisions at such a young age when it came to the zonal acarya situation. What actually happened during that time was not due to youthful inexperience, it was the result of the egotistic elitist mindset which can stay with people their whole lives. Ramesvara was a bright guy, but he was an elitist and he saw his position as being rightfully the boss of the "ordinary devotees". Even though some say he was against the zonal acarya concept, he did embrace it wholeheartedly. Some say he was involved with the Sulochana situation. From my experience of him and the way he ran things I could easily believe he was a willing part of it. But that's not enough to convict him. I'm just saying he kept around a bevy of thugs to rough people up if need be and so I can't discount that type of person from even dirtier deeds. Although he may be totally innocent. Of course being one of the main leaders of ISKCON during his reign he had to be aware of the child abuse going on. He liked to know everything about everyone, so there is no way he didn't know. Because he didn't put a stop to it then he is culpable along with the rest of the acaryas at that time for negligence or even direct culpability. He could also be quite cruel and also careless with disciples lives. I heard him once say that he was going to make sure a certain disciple of his was not going to find a wife if he could help it because the disciple wasn't living up to his expectations.

 

I visited L.A. from Maui in 1986, this was right around the time Ramesvara was leaving or had just left. I didn't know anything about it because I had been out of the ISKCON loop for 4 years. But I did happen to make friends with the gurukuli girl he had been seeing. I didn't know about the situation nor her part in it at that time, I just happened to eat and hang out at the Govindas juice bar for a month or so, and she was their regularly and we started talking and became friendly. She was a very bright and beautiful girl, a dancer, she was mature and modern, not actually going to gurukula, and I could see her as instigating a relationship with older men. I was 26-27 and she was flirtatious with me, so I could easily see her getting Ramesvara riled up enough to chance it all. She was very attractive and cool and smart. I can't blame him for going for it, I doubt if anyone could have resisted her charms if she set her sights on them.

 

 

 

A recent article showed Sri Narayana Swami embracing, Kirtananda. Sri Paramadwaita Swami also embraced him. Accusations and bad vibes flowed. Why, because these great devotees didnt slap him? No, great devotees probably dont even see the bad faults at all, only see the attempt of Krsna consciousness, even though imperfectly applied. As Audarya lila states, an uttama adhikari has no discrimination at all. Sometimes, an uttama adhikari has to accept a position of madhyama adhikari in order to preach and especially, to accept disciples. An Uttama Adhikari cannot do this because there is no difference between Mother Theresa and Twisted Sister to the uttama. All that is seen is a pure spirit soul. Madhyama adhikari makes distinction between one engaged in devotional service to Krsna and one who has forgotten everything due to contact with this portion of the mahat tattwa.

 

Mahak I don't think you have a clear understanding of an uttama adhikari's vision. You wrote "An Uttama Adhikari cannot do this because there is no difference between Mother Theresa and Twisted Sister to the uttama. All that is seen is a pure spirit soul." That is not accurate. An uttama adhikari is not an idiot, he sees the difference between people. An uttama *also* sees that everyone is being directed by paramatma to act the way they do. An uttama sees everyone serving Krishna at all times because he knows and *sees* everyone following the dictates of paramatma to fulfil their destiny in their lives. So when it is said that an uttama comes down to the level of a madhyama in order to preach what that means is that the uttama ordinarily sees *everyone* serving Krishna, but in order to preach he has to neglect that reality in order to tell people that they should take up Krishna bhakti. It's not that they have some hindrance in their ability to discern between a devotee and others. The whole thing is a philosophical point, a teaching meant to elevate people to be able to see how an uttama adhikari sees reality so that they try and see like that. So when it comes to prominent gurus embracing Kirtanananda, it's not because they are uttama adhikaris and are just seeing everyone as spirit souls, in reality what they are doing is hoping to get his followers to come to their camps. It's all about exploiting the situation.

 

People also have written about Jayatirtha. I saw him a few times when I was in ISKCON, but actually got to know him a little bit after he left ISKCON. My friends and myself visited Jayatirtha and his crew a few times when he first moved to Marin County, and in turn they came and visited us. This was at the beginning of his trip and before he evidently turned into believing he was some kind of avatar. His scene was new agey and what would be considered very hip and spiritual by many, and his 2 main men were also new agey hip musicians. They were involved with dealing with prominent leaders of the new age community whom were apparently attracted by Jayatirtha and his scene, which was very much like their own except with a new agey type of Krishna consciousness thrown in as well (sex ands drugs permitted). Jayatirtha's 2 main men both moved to Maui after Jayatirtha died and are prominent and influtential members of the large wealthy new age community there. When I knew Jayatirtha he seemed very likable and hip and cool and I could see why he and his crew were attracting the new age crowd. But I only saw him at the beginning of his trip. I had been visiting california and got to know him and his crew a little bit, they were all very nice and welcoming. I remember when I was visiting them in Marin that they were planning on going to L.A. for Janmastami after they had just held a big Janmastami celebration at an upscale community center in Marin. It was a fairly good turnout, mostly new age people from Marin, there was even a heated pool there for swimming, it was a very entertaining celebration. They had a sufi dancer from Maui lead the celebration in a sufi dance where there would be circles of people within circles of people with each circle dancing in different directions, good music and chanting, a good feast, a slide show from someone's trip to India, all in all a very good time for all. Then we went down to L.A for Janmastami. So I went with them and at that time there were 2 Janmastami celebrations in L.A. One was the one in the ISKCON temple and the other was at some rented hall where maybe a hundred or more of Prabhupada's disciples were having a Janmastami festival. We went to the non ISKCON one. When We walked in everybody stopped and stared at us and Jayatirtha. Here was the ex zonal acarya doing his new age thing and everyone was interested to see what he was up to. We spent the night at Bharadwaja's house and then went on to San Diego where the "fringy" devotees were happy to see the Jayatirtha crew again and had kirtans and prasadama etc. They left and I stayed, then a few months later I went back to Maui with some friends who first had to go upstate, so we ended up visiting Jayatirtha for a couple days in their new secluded large home in the mountains (used to be the italian consulate) before going on to Maui. They were as nice as ever and had started a muffin business, they were baking and selling big muffins with a side of almond butter and honey. They were quite tasty. I never saw Jayatirtha again after this, that was 1983 I think. I heard from his ex-wife years later, who was his wife when I visited, that gradually Jayatirtha went kinda off the deep end and did some things which were very uncool and he thought himself to be some kind of avatar of Jesus or Krishna. I think she is writing a book. When I knew him he hadn't totally gone off the deep end yet.

[Guruvani]

nice story "Siva".

 

I enjoyed hearing it.

 

Haven't see you in a long time.

 

You must be completely bald by now?

[shiva]

 

nice story "Siva".

 

I enjoyed hearing it.

 

Haven't see you in a long time.

 

You must be completely bald by now?

 

Hah, I was pretty much back in the day, haven't changed on that front, keep my head shaved, But Ramesvara has started to bald. There's a video on youtube from the Ratha yatra

You can see Ramesvara as the devotee follows him, he's walking by himself and then with another devotee, at one point you can see him gesticulating with his hands as he talks, just like he used to

[Guruvani]

 

You can see Ramesvara as the devotee follows him, he's walking by himself and then with another devotee, at one point you can see him gesticulating with his hands as he talks, just like he used to

 

Maybe he is a new and improved version?

Or, do old attitudes die hard?

 

I don't have any serious grudge against Ramesvar.

I thought he was an eccentric genius back in the days.

 

He is not an ordinary human being for sure.

 

He wasn't friendly, but he was quite intelligent.

 

I don't care to see him as a leader in ISKCON again, but if he makes a comeback in the realm of service to Srila Prabhupada then I wish him all the best.

 

Actually, leaving his guruship and ISKCON was one of the best things I ever heard about him.

 

That shows he has some genuine sincerity and authenticity.

 

The ones that stay and perpetuate the atrocity are the real bad cookies.

 

Ramesvar actually got real and acted like a real human being.

 

I guess he wasn't cut out to be a monster?

[Guruvani]

 

There's a video on youtube from the Ratha yatra

You can see Ramesvara as the devotee follows him,

Man, he looks like he is walking in a funeral procession.

He looks very humbled.

How can he not be?

Hey, anybody that humbles themself before the devotees and Srila Prabhupada deserves some compassion.

 

He is probably a better human being than he ever was before.

 

(we can always hope so anyway)

[Guruvani]

 

Well, he resigned from his post for very specific reasons and he certainly was no victim there.

 

His runnig off with the devotee girl to get married was the least of his offenses as far as I am concerned.

 

giving up his fake guru position to become a humble grihasta was nothing that I hold againt him.

[stonehearted]

I don't think he ran off with the devotee girl to get married. He married someone else altogether, someone who was making a lot of money at the time.

 

When I read all these expressions of anger, hurt, etc., I have to think about what behavior pleases Srila Prabhupada most. I remember his ire at Tamal's broadcasting Madhudvisa's leaving his post: "Now he can never come back!" I remember what he told us when Aniruddha came to see him at the Honolulu airport in 1974: despite Aniruddha's not being well situated at the time, Prabhupada looked at us and said, "In Los Angeles temple he is the beginning." He sees our service as much more significant than any mistakes we make.

 

I remember hearing from Tripurari Maharaja about his visiting Srila Sridhar Maharaja just after Ramesvara and Bhagavan left. SSM asked Maharaja whether the reports he had heard about their leaving were true. When Maharaja indicated that they were true, Srila Sridhar Maharaja cried, lamenting that Srila Prabhupada had invested so much in them, and now it was apparently lost. Meanwhile, back in LA, devotees were partying, literally.

 

Remembering all these things has to override all the other considerations I have based on my knowing him since 1973 and working under him as I ran a gurukula in Hawaii and taught at another in California. It was his stubbornness about not giving up his big worship, as well as his preaching philosophically deviant ideas and failing to chant the number of rounds he had promised Srila Prabhupada and demanded of his disciples, that drove me from ISKCON at the end of 1985.

 

Even considering that and much more, I have to appreciate the devotees who were kind to him when he showed up in LA.

 

But he's not eligible for any position of responsibility in ISKCON. Finished.

[Guruvani]

 

He married someone else altogether, someone who was making a lot of money at the time.

 

see, he was a very smart guy......

[Pita das]

New Dwarka in those days presented us with the appearance of a shooting star by the name of Ramesvara Prabhu.

When I first came to New Dwarka, he was just another BBT brahmachari and was always seen with his godbrother partner Radhavallabha.

 

As we took morning prasad, Ramesvara started to give us his talks with inside information on Srila Prabhupadas whereabouts, ISKCON policy, book distribution, always hyping up the prabhus. I mean, the guy had it in the sales department.

 

I remember one of his statements going something like this:

 

" Lord Chaitanya is the most merciful and munificent incarnation ever. He has descended just to give us Love of Krishna and Im going to take full advantage."

 

As he made this statement, he would almost squirm about, twisting his body. Each day he would do another performance that would outdo the last. I use to think someone would ask him to stop, but he was inspiring so he was encouraged.

 

Ramesvara was on fire for many years. At morning prasad (Meal Times), he would jump in to give a few messages and he had sankirtan(Book Distrubtion) scores right after Tulasi puja.

 

He would jump up and give us his one-man ishtagoshti for about 20 minutes, always looking like he expected a senior devotee like Nara Narayan to tell him to sit down and shut up, and always doing his body squirm to emphasize points.

 

He was good and he did get us going. In those days, I enjoyed his pep talks.

 

Then Ramesvara was put in charge of the BBT; and after a short time, made a sannyasi; then after that, GBC ( govering board of commissions)of New Dwarka; and after that, a Divine Grace with his own Vyasasan -- all within four years. A mouse-cat-dog-tiger-mouse. So sad, so very sad. We also wanted to see him get the full mercy of Lord Chaitanya

 

Toward the last days Srila Prabhupada was with us, in 1977, Srila Prabhupada would have one GBC stay with him as secretary each month. Ramesvara left and took his turn in about February of 1977.

 

We all heard about this from Ramesvaras purports after Tulasi Puja.

As soon as Srila Prabhupada became ill, we all knew about it, as Ramesvara told us almost everything he knew in his 20 minutes news flashes from the ISKCON grapevine, which was almost as fast as todays Internet.

 

When Ramesvara was secretary, he made notes of his time with Srila Prabhupada and would let us hear them in his nectar reports after Tulasi worship.

 

Srila Prabhupada would order Ramesvara to eat from his plate after only taking a few things and tell him to fill up to his neck.

 

He told us of how disappointed Srila Prabhupada was with his godbrothers and made a statement which he told us came from Prabhupada about them assisting him in his preaching, "If passing air would save your life, they would not do so."

 

 

One day, in one of Ramesvaras after Tulasi puja talks, we heard of the recent pastimes of Jayananda who was close to death and how he was snuck out of a NYC hospital and had been taken to some place in Mexico for treatment and that he may come to New Dwarka. Very soon Jayananda was there and the whole community met him.

 

Ramesvara was very kind and served Jayananda with all respect and so did we all, understanding Jayananda to be a genuine saint.

 

Though his body was in the final stages of Leukemia and his skin yellowed by the illness, Jayananda didnt want to just sit and wait for death to overtake him. He cornered Ramesvara and told him it was a disgrace that we had such nice Jagannath Deities in New Dwarka, but still had no Rathayatra.

 

Jayananda wanted the devotees to drive him around to see what would be a good route for such a festival. They first took him to Venice beach. When he saw the wide concrete walk there, he told them that the Rathayatra had to be held there. Jayananda personally went to all the city officials in his wheelchair and got all the permits for the festival.

 

He then instructed a crew of devotees how to build the cart and observed them doing so until he was too sick to leave his room.

 

What is past is past with mistakes we all have made .I want to see Ramesvara get the full mercy of Lord Chaitanya as he so desired.

 

I wish all the devottees happiness success in thier service to Guru and Gouranga.I would like to see us all in eternal kirtian in Gokula asap with His Divine Grace playing his Brihat Mrdunga.

 

Im sure Ramevara would be a good asset for Book Distrubtion and Production once again ,as he has helped Sura das secertly on the phone for years now .

 

Welcome home Ramesvara Prabhu

[Kulapavana]

 

His runnig off with the devotee girl to get married was the least of his offenses as far as I am concerned.

 

giving up his fake guru position to become a humble grihasta was nothing that I hold againt him.

 

He did not run off with some woman to get married. He was having an affair with a 15 year old girl "disciple" and was subsequently caught and publically outed. He had no choice but to resign.

[Kulapavana]

 

When I read all these expressions of anger, hurt, etc., I have to think about what behavior pleases Srila Prabhupada most. I remember his ire at Tamal's broadcasting Madhudvisa's leaving his post: "Now he can never come back!" I remember what he told us when Aniruddha came to see him at the Honolulu airport in 1974: despite Aniruddha's not being well situated at the time, Prabhupada looked at us and said, "In Los Angeles temple he is the beginning." He sees our service as much more significant than any mistakes we make.

 

I remember hearing from Tripurari Maharaja about his visiting Srila Sridhar Maharaja just after Ramesvara and Bhagavan left. SSM asked Maharaja whether the reports he had heard about their leaving were true. When Maharaja indicated that they were true, Srila Sridhar Maharaja cried, lamenting that Srila Prabhupada had invested so much in them, and now it was apparently lost. Meanwhile, back in LA, devotees were partying, literally.

 

 

A guru or a pure brahmana will look at these issues differently then lets say a kshatriya whose duty is to manage properly and uphold law and order. When a brahmana whose children were dying came to Arjuna, Arjuna did not lecture him on how this is all the manifestation of our karma which we need to humbly accept. He took his bow and vowed to stop these incidences. If he merely offered the brahmana words of comfort his reputation would have been finished and he would have been seen as a fake.

 

One in position of material responsibility cannot use spirituality and philosophy to cover up his own inaction when it comes to upholding law and order. The misdeeds must be properly dealt with and offenders must be punished. It is one thing to fall down in the area of personal rules and regulations out of weakness, and it is another to lie, steal, cheat, and mistreat others while supposedly performing service for the guru. These two are never similar. One is merely a weaknes of the body while the other is a wickedness of the heart.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Most people hear "affair" and assume sex.

 

From what I heard (and I was young (as I keep saying)), there was inappropriate association, but I never heard anything about sex.

 

If sex was involved, one might find it safe to assume that a criminal prosecution would have ensued.

 

The scandalous thing was that Ramesvar Maharaja was starting to pump iron and wear blue jeans and spend time alone with that girl.

 

As others have mentioned, the girl (should we not be naming her?) was very beautiful. I was in Mohana Mata's gurukula with her and had a big-time crush on her.

 

I saw her daughter at the L.A. Gurukuli reunion a couple of years ago and thought it was her (with paler skin and freckles).

 

 

He did not run off with some woman to get married. He was having an affair with a 15 year old girl "disciple" and was subsequently caught and publically outed. He had no choice but to resign.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

We used to go out on harinams I think on friday nights to some popular place with close to one hundred people, maybe more at times...Sunday feasts were huge operations. There were pandal tents set up, all kinds of wonderfully opulent prasad being sold in front of the temple by maybe 20 different devotee vendors. They would set up and cook outside all kinds of wonderful things including hot jalebis and samosas and many other tasty treats. There was also the free feast but this was extra prasadam. There were often times Indian performers doing some dance and play recital or gurukulis or others. The sunday feast was a real festival with huge crowds every week.

It's funny how selective memory can be, isn't it? Here you are recalling all sorts of things, but you can't recall that it was in Westwood (in front of the bank, whose name escapes me at the moment) or in Hollywood that the big Hari Nama Sankirttanas took place.

 

Also, while I was 6 in 1978, I believe I can clearly remember that there were no food vendors set up outside the temple during Sunday Feasts at that time. At major festivals, perhaps, but not each Sunday. Much much later on (like in the past 15 years), there have been various maha-rooms, and tables set up in front of the temple on Sundays.

 

I remember the Gurukuli's plays well (I can even remember my line from one of the plays, "More wine? But you've already had three jugs!!"). There's a picture of me dressed as a sannyasi standing in front of the temple.

 

Why do I mention such trivial things? To point out how imperfect and selective our memories can be.

 

You may have been there, but how much did you see and how much did you miss?