Need Advice on Regulative Principles

[tackleberry]

Dear Devotees,

 

I consider myself a devotee, but I drink, smoke, and sometimes eat meat. It's not that I want to, but I am a weak man and cannot resist it. My q is: is it ok to do these things and practice devotion, safe in the knowledge that some day Krishna will destroy these bad habits? Or must I keep fighting these habits, before becoming eligible for KC?

 

THis is because I am also planning to settle in a holy place like vrindavan. I feel the urge, but at the same time, cannot give up these habits. It's not easy for me, because I am being pulled in different directions.

 

I'd appreciate some feedback on this.

 

Haribol!

[Guruvani]

Most devotees in the beginning need to live in a temple or closely associated with a temple community to get the association and peer pressure necessary to follow the regs.

So, if you aren't living in a community of devotees then maybe you should look into the possibilites.

[Kulapavana]

 

Dear Devotees,

 

I consider myself a devotee, but I drink, smoke, and sometimes eat meat. It's not that I want to, but I am a weak man and cannot resist it. My q is: is it ok to do these things and practice devotion, safe in the knowledge that some day Krishna will destroy these bad habits? Or must I keep fighting these habits, before becoming eligible for KC?

 

THis is because I am also planning to settle in a holy place like vrindavan. I feel the urge, but at the same time, cannot give up these habits. It's not easy for me, because I am being pulled in different directions.

 

I'd appreciate some feedback on this.

 

Haribol!

 

It is nice that you humbly approach the fallibility of your material nature. Try to practice VERY SINCERELY the things you CAN do, such as hearing, chanting, and performing ACTUAL service in the temple. Associate with the devotees as much as you can. Gradually your taste will change, and gradually you will be able to change your habits. Try giving up eating meat first, as it is the most polluting habit. You need to prepare yourself for residence in the Dhama. Performing sinful activities in the Dhama is very damaging to us. You will not really enter the Dham unless you change your habits in a substantial way.

 

Good luck to you. Do not lose heart. Purification is often slow, but it DOES come eventually if we strive for it.

[tackleberry]

 

It is nice that you humbly approach the fallibility of your material nature. Try to practice VERY SINCERELY the things you CAN do, such as hearing, chanting, and performing ACTUAL service in the temple. Associate with the devotees as much as you can. Gradually your taste will change, and gradually you will be able to change your habits. Try giving up eating meat first, as it is the most polluting habit. You need to prepare yourself for residence in the Dhama. Performing sinful activities in the Dhama is very damaging to us. You will not really enter the Dham unless you change your habits in a substantial way.

 

Good luck to you. Do not lose heart. Purification is often slow, but it DOES come eventually if we strive for it.

 

Thanks for your kind advice.

 

Meat-eating, I can give up quite easily, because I only eat occasionally. In fact, I hardly ever eat meat these days, except when going out with friends. Drinking, again, it's due to friends. I can't look like a joker, going to bar and not ordering beer.

 

But smoking is a real problem. I picked it up only a few months back, and that's even more frustrating because I've never smoked before. But just when I was doing very good sadhana, I suddenly fell prey to this habit, and now I can't help smoking daily.

 

As to illicit sex, I don't indulge in such things physically, but my mind is always thinking of women. This also is new to me, I've never been like this before, I've never had impure thoughts like I do now. This also happened at the same time I picked up the smoking habit. It's weird, all bad things happened at the same time, around May this year. I can't believe Krishna hasn't protected me from all this, especially when I was doing very good sadhana.

 

Now I feel as if I am neither here nor there, neither spiritually inclined nor materially so. I am caught between worlds, and Krishna doesn't hear my prayers. I am lost.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Well, if you must go to the bar, be sure to talk to the folks outside about Krishna when you're going to have your ciggie!

 

I know purists might disagree (and very likely Gurudeva), but I see a large difference between having a single beer socially and getting piss-drunk.

 

Very few people have murdered somebody after having a single beer (I'm willing to venture). How many murders have *not* involved large quantities of alcohol (or speed, etc.)?

 

 

Thanks for your kind advice.

 

Meat-eating, I can give up quite easily, because I only eat occasionally. In fact, I hardly ever eat meat these days, except when going out with friends. Drinking, again, it's due to friends. I can't look like a joker, going to bar and not ordering beer.

 

But smoking is a real problem. I picked it up only a few months back, and that's even more frustrating because I've never smoked before. But just when I was doing very good sadhana, I suddenly fell prey to this habit, and now I can't help smoking daily.

 

As to illicit sex, I don't indulge in such things physically, but my mind is always thinking of women. This also is new to me, I've never been like this before, I've never had impure thoughts like I do now. This also happened at the same time I picked up the smoking habit. It's weird, all bad things happened at the same time, around May this year. I can't believe Krishna hasn't protected me from all this, especially when I was doing very good sadhana.

 

Now I feel as if I am neither here nor there, neither spiritually inclined nor materially so. I am caught between worlds, and Krishna doesn't hear my prayers. I am lost.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Now I feel as if I am neither here nor there, neither spiritually inclined nor materially so. I am caught between worlds, and Krishna doesn't hear my prayers. I am lost.

 

Not only does Krishna hear your prayers, as Supersoul, he hears *everything*.

 

[cbrahma]

I was drinking, eating non-vegetarian and having illicit sex regularily. I chanted four rounds every day without fail. The drinking and non-vegetarian stopped.

Double to eight rounds - the illicit sex stopped.

Chanted sixteen rounds and went every day to the morning program - and I was able to maintain.

[yogesh]

 

Thanks for your kind advice.

 

Meat-eating, I can give up quite easily, because I only eat occasionally. In fact, I hardly ever eat meat these days, except when going out with friends. Drinking, again, it's due to friends. I can't look like a joker, going to bar and not ordering beer.

 

But smoking is a real problem. I picked it up only a few months back, and that's even more frustrating because I've never smoked before. But just when I was doing very good sadhana, I suddenly fell prey to this habit, and now I can't help smoking daily.

 

As to illicit sex, I don't indulge in such things physically, but my mind is always thinking of women. This also is new to me, I've never been like this before, I've never had impure thoughts like I do now. This also happened at the same time I picked up the smoking habit. It's weird, all bad things happened at the same time, around May this year. I can't believe Krishna hasn't protected me from all this, especially when I was doing very good sadhana.

 

Now I feel as if I am neither here nor there, neither spiritually inclined nor materially so. I am caught between worlds, and Krishna doesn't hear my prayers. I am lost.

 

Maybe it is time to change "friends" or at least avoid places such as bar. It seems like you have a very open mind. What I mean is that there is subtle influences that is affecting your thought patterns that is causing you to partake in what "crows" enjoy.

 

If you associate with like minded people then the subtle influences will affect how you behave!!

 

Do not blame Krsna for weakness of the mind!!

 

And follow the advice of Kulpavana Prabhu & Murali Prabhu take their words as Lord Krsna answering your prays.

 

There are many Good Devotees on this form take their positive guidance and wishing you all the strength in your spiritual endeavor.

 

Hare Krsna

 

Jay Sirla Prabhupada

[theist]

 

Thanks for your kind advice.

 

Meat-eating, I can give up quite easily, because I only eat occasionally. In fact, I hardly ever eat meat these days, except when going out with friends. Drinking, again, it's due to friends. I can't look like a joker, going to bar and not ordering beer.

They are not your friends. You have a familiarity with them based around bad habits. I finnally broke my 24/7 pot addiction, not by giving up pot, but by giving up the association of anyone that smoked pot.

 

Make the temple the center of your activities more and more.

 

 

But smoking is a real problem. I picked it up only a few months back, and that's even more frustrating because I've never smoked before. But just when I was doing very good sadhana, I suddenly fell prey to this habit, and now I can't help smoking daily.

Ask yourself who you picked this habit up from. Association again. Whoever handed you your first cigeratte was NOT a friend to you. I smoked a few years in high school and then just quit cold turkey and it was sooooo hard but it can be done.

 

 

As to illicit sex, I don't indulge in such things physically, but my mind is always thinking of women. This also is new to me, I've never been like this before, I've never had impure thoughts like I do now. This also happened at the same time I picked up the smoking habit. It's weird, all bad things happened at the same time, around May this year. I can't believe Krishna hasn't protected me from all this, especially when I was doing very good sadhana.

You are not engaged in sadhana when you go to a bar to eat meat and drink beer. And what is the topic of conversation centered around mostly? Women. But what can I say here. I'm 55 and still fixated on women's breasts. It can't be overcome without experiencing a higher taste in Krsna consciousness. Patience and keep chanting in association with devotees.

 

 

Now I feel as if I am neither here nor there, neither spiritually inclined nor materially so. I am caught between worlds, and Krishna doesn't hear my prayers. I am lost.

Yes it's like straddling between two boats in the water. Impossible to maintain balance when they are moving in opposite directions. But look carefully at the material boat and you will notice a hole in the bottom and water coming on board. It is destined to sink. Now look at the spiritual boat which is sailing to you take across the ocean of birth and death. We always have this choice of which boat to float in. That is why we are called marginal energy.

 

Arjuna asked Krsna about the yogi who was unable to complete his path due to worldly mindedness and Krsna told Him the good is carried over into our next lives. No loss for even one utterance of the maha-mantra.

 

I sure you have prayed to Krsna for guidance. Krsna hears your prayers. Just like the parent hears the cries and demands of the small child. "Mommy, I am hungry.Dinner will be ready in a few minutes." But a few minutes is a decade sometimes to a child.

 

The idea of the mother not feeding her child is unthinkable. How much more unthinkable then for Krsna to ignore His child who is coming back to Him?

[Pita das]

Get a tape of Srila Prabhupada's chanting and chant with Srila Prabhupada and try to chant as His Divine Grace is chanting.

 

Srila Prabhupada has explained that when we start the chanting it is just like entering into a very dusty room.Very Very Dusty from time in memorial this material dust of many lives times has accumulated .

 

The chanting is the process of cleaning the room ...if we continue in the cleaning process the room will eventually become cleaned.

 

Meat eating ,illicit sex,intoxication,gambling this id part of the dust.

 

As you chant you will remove these unwanted habits from your life.

 

It is a proven fact and many here have walked the path you are now starting .

 

The only difference between your goodself and and the others on this forum is they have been cleaning the room longer or have not stopped in thier cleaning,and continue to do so.

We all must continue to clean or the room will never be cleaned so keep going ,dont loose heart as the dust flies up in the air and it seems we are not making progress .

 

There is always great progress made each time we virbate the Holy Name of Krishna which our eternal function.To fly among birds one needs to flap thier wings .

[theist]

 

The only difference between your goodself and and the others on this forum is they have been cleaning the room longer or have not stopped in thier cleaning,and continue to do so.

 

Pita das has the generous nature of a vaisnava. He didn't mention my class which is to clean a little then make more mess several times over. I feel like I am treading water at best but that is better than being swept downstream to the falls.

[Kulapavana]

 

Now I feel as if I am neither here nor there, neither spiritually inclined nor materially so. I am caught between worlds, and Krishna doesn't hear my prayers. I am lost.

 

Following the regulative principles is not an end in itself. Our material tendencies will be there as long as the body is alive. Get used to it. What you need to do is to build up spiritual potency, so that you can resist the bodily urges. In this world one has to eat, sleep, mate, and defend - there is no choice - but we should not stop with just these four. Otherwise we are no more than animals.

 

Lord Krsna certainly hears your prayers. But sometimes we are praying for purity with our mouth while our heart desires material enjoyment. So what should He give us?

 

Dont let your mind trick you into thinking you are lost. You are NOT lost! You have just found Krsna and your real self. You have a lot going for you now. Be happy for yourself, not morose. Follow the bhakti program as presented by Srila Prabhupada the best you can and all will be well. Eventually things will get easier.

 

As to smoking - it is an impure habit but it's karmic toll is very low. Dont worry about it too much. Follow the program and you will lose taste for it quite soon. As to lust - that is much harder to overcome. Most people simply need to get married and stay faithful to their spouse - that is usually enough tapasya for most people. Just make sure you find a nice devotee wife. It would be very difficult to seriously practice bhakti yoga otherwise.