Food Prepared by Iskcon is First Offered to Lord Jagannath as 'Bhog'

[suchandra]

Violation of spiritual sentiments - or, how to properly answer such kind of argument?

 

MP madrassas boycott Iskcon's mid-day meals

17 Aug 2007, 0011 hrs IST,Suchandana Gupta,TNN

BHOPAL: Madrassas in Ujjain have boycotted the Madhya Pradesh government's mid-day meal scheme for students on the ground that the food is being prepared by Iskcon, the Hindu religious organisation spreading Krishna consciousness throughout the world.

The madrassas in Ujjain, 200 km from Bhopal, have demanded that raw materials for food, and funds be given directly to them so that they can prepare mid-day meals for students. Muslim clerics argued that food prepared by Iskcon is first offered to Lord Jagannath as 'bhog' (offering) before being distributed among the students.

"We can't accept this as it hurts our religious sentiments," Ujjain Qazi Khaleeq-ur-Rahman told TOI .

"Minister of state for education Paras Jain came here and lectured us that we needed to change our mentality. We want to specify that the matter is far above mentality. It is our faith. How can our students eat a meal which has been served to a Hindu god?"

Iskcon, however, denied that the food prepared for madrassa students is offered to Lord Jagannath. Iskcon's spokesman in Ujjain Raghav Das said, "According to our understanding with the Ujjain Municipal Corporation, we supply prepared food to 22,000 students in town. We make 66,000 'chapatis', 140 kg of vegetables (curry) and 45 kg of lentils (dal) per day. We then take just one 'thali' from the kitchen to the temple of Lord Jagannath. The rest of the food is not taken to the temple. It is transported from our kitchens to the schools."

Iskcon has been preparing midday meals for schools in urban areas since July. "We constructed a kitchen large enough to prepare the mid-day meals for more than 20,000 students. Keeping hygienic conditions in mind, we even got automatic roti makers which prepare 10,000 rotis per hour. We are not in this for profit.”

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

how to properly answer such kind of argument?

I would say they are right and shouldn't be forced to eat prasadam if they don't want it. It is clearly against their religion to eat food offered to a deity, and we shouldn't force them to do it, even if it is beneficial to them.

 

Madrassas are islamic gurukulas, often viewed as fanatical. I think we should avoid them and let them prepare their own food as they want.

[theist]

That is a fact. Free will is given by Krsna and is the boundary line of every soul. Even Krsna Himself respects it.

[suchandra]

 

I would say they are right and shouldn't be forced to eat prasadam if they don't want it. It is clearly against their religion to eat food offered to a deity, and we shouldn't force them to do it, even if it is beneficial to them.

To complain against the offering to God of food before eating what is an ancient tradition in India's culture should be considered the same like complaining immigrants who come to US and find out that on each and every banknote it says, "In God we Trust", and start to complain at the Human Rights Court that they don't agree to be reminded to believe in a Christian God on every dollar bill which they are forced to use as currency. If immigrants can't tolerate traditional rituals practised in the host country, very simple, they should be sent back where they came from - their country of origin. May be Muslims consider India as their homeland since they came there already some 800 years ago, but still India's culture of offering food is there since millions of years.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

India is a secular country, not a Hindu country. All religions should be respected equally in a secular country. Offering food to God is an ancient Hindu custom performed by individuals worshipping in temples. In this case, we are speaking of a secular government providing free meals to Islamic schools. It has nothing to do with ancient Hindu customs. The Muslims clearly don't want food offered to a Hindu deity, and that is understandable. Just because my religion says it is good for them doesn't give me the right to force it on them. How would you feel if in Muslim countries all Hindus were forced to eat halal beef because the Muslims thought it was good for you?

 

When the governement provides free meals to the citizens of India, they do it as a secular service to feed children. It isn't an ancient religious custom they are trying to fulfill. Actually there is no ancient religious custom that involves the government cooking and feeding prasadam to millions of children in schools throughout the country. The ancient custom has always been to offer food to God in temples.

 

 

If immigrants can't tolerate traditional rituals practised in the host country, very simple, they should be sent back where they came from - their country of origin.

This is an ignorant statement on several levels. First, most of the Muslims in India have always been Indian. When the Muslims invaded India, they converted native Hindus to their religion. So for most of todays Muslims, there is no place "where they came from". Their country of origin has always been India. The only difference is their forefathers were Hindus, and they are not.

 

Why your statement is ignorant is because you are identifying a country of origin with a particular religion. It is like saying that your "country of origin" is India just because you are a Vaishnava. But the reality is most of the Vaishnavas in the west are not from India and are not Indian. Their country of origin remains the country they were born in - it has nothing to do with the particular religion they choose to follow.

 

India has many religious traditions, and no one should be forced to follow the rituals of a religion he does not believe in. As a Vaishnava, you would not want to be forced to follow buddhist, jain, or zorastrian customs, would you? These are all ancient traditions of India. So just because your tradition of offering food to God is ancient does not justify forcing others to follow it as well.

[suchandra]

 

This is an ignorant statement on several levels.

According modern Western secularistic political understanding you're of course right, but Vaishnavas should be somehow merciful para-dukha-dukhis and give the Muslim kids prasadam. Before, the Muslim patriarchs would not have sent their children to school but kept them illiterate to work at home like child labour. When they heard that at school they get something to eat - a full meal, they started to reluctantly send their children to school. Now they found out that it is prasadam, offered to Lord Jagannath, and demand the bhog for themselves. But will they prepare food for their children, or rather take that bhog and sell it at the market? Consider, these people are poor beyond our perceptivity. Still, approximately 25 million primary school-age children are not in school but kept illiterate by their Muslim parents. For those enrolled, 40 percent drop out before reaching Class V. Isnt this ignorance on several levels? India is still home to 57 million malnourished children.

http://www.indiatribune.com/popuparticle.aspx?Article_ID=7186

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

When they heard that at school they get something to eat - a full meal, they started to reluctantly send their children to school. Now they found out that it is prasadam, offered to Lord Jagannath, and demand the bhog for themselves. But will they prepare food for their children, or rather take that bhog and sell it at the market?

 

The schools are Islamic religious convents. All they are asking is that the secular government provide them the ingredients so that they can cook the food themselves, or arrange an NGO who will give them food not offered to a Hindu deity.

 

As Vaishnavas we also believe that we should not eat food cooked by non devotees. If our ISKCON gurukulas were forced to feed the children food cooked by Muslims and offered in a mosque, most would also object.

 

Whether or not these people will cook the food or sell it in the market is irelevant. The same question can be asked of any Hindu organization as well. This is not a question of corruption, but one of forcing religious beliefs onto another religious group. Corruption could exist anywhere in any religious organization.

 

The midday meal program is a government contract offered to thousands of non-government organizations throughout India, for providing free meals in India's schools. The contract has nothing to do with any religion or religious organization. It is not that ISKCON is giving them something free and the schools should have no say in what they get. The government is providing free meals in all schools throughout India, and they are hiring other organizations to carry out this work. In this case ISKCON is an organization hired by the government. The government is not hiring them to provide religious prasadam, but just food. Since the majority of India's population is Hindu, most people will not object that ISKCON is giving religious prasadam in the schools. But when you come to all-Muslim schools or all Christian schools we have to be careful not to hurt their religious sentiments.

 

If a muslim organization had received the contract to provide our ISKCON gurukulas with free meals, and they decided to secretly include beef in the meals for our "spiritual welfare" we would all be extremely angry. This is the same thing. You don't see it as wrong simply because it is in favor of your own religion. But if it was the other way around, you would be extremely angry.

 

 

Consider, these people are poor beyond our perceptivity. Still, approximately 25 million primary school-age children are not in school but kept illiterate by their Muslim parents. For those enrolled, 40 percent drop out before reaching Class V. Isnt this ignorance on several levels?

 

Again this is an ignorant statement. Poverty in India has nothing to do with what religion you follow. I can show you Hindu tribal communities in Orissa where 95% of the children don't attend school and are forced to work in rice fields by the age of 6 or 7. It has nothing to do with what religion they follow. What is the point in mentioning how many Muslim children are illiterate? There are 10 times as many Hindu children illiterate in India as well.

 

If the government tries to force Muslim schools to feed their students religious food offered to a Hindu deity you will only increase tension and hatred between Hindus and Muslims. Religious harmony doesn't come by offending other people's religious beliefs.

[suchandra]

 

If a muslim organization had received the contract to provide our ISKCON gurukulas with free meals, and they decided to secretly include beef in the meals for our "spiritual welfare" we would all be extremely angry. This is the same thing.

If you see this as the same offense, conditioned souls being forced to eat prasadam and Vaishnavas being forced to eat beef then it must be true.

Then it can be concluded that ISKCON does nothing but indulge in mundane welfare activities and gets the telling off: "Bhog only - please."

Prabhupada once said that distributing prasadam should always be accompanied by chanting the Holy Name because Vaishnavas business is never to feed the poor but to bring people to devotional service.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

The real issue is the fundumental right to freedom of religion. Unfortunately some devotees feel they have the ultimate answer and therefore others should not be given the freedom to choose their own religion.

 

In ancient times the same mindset existed, but it was the Muslims who forced the Hindus to follow their "true religion". I'm sure you would consider that a great injustice. But at the same time you may be happy if the reverse is done - all Muslims being forced to follow Hinduism.

 

It is because of secular governments that you and I have the right to follow the religion of our choice. That same right you now want to take away from the Muslims simply because you think you have the right religion.

 

 

If you see this as the same offense, conditioned souls being forced to eat prasadam and Vaishnavas being forced to eat beef then it must be true.

It has nothing to do with offense, sin, aparadha or any other of your religious catchphrases. It has to do with honesty and freedom of religion which should be granted to everyone.

 

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I would not want to be forced to follow someone else's religion, so I won't force others to follow my religion.

[Guruvani]

Feeding food that has been offered to Hindu gods to Muslims would be a good way to get yourself killed if in fact such an offense incites the anger of Islamic fanatics.

 

To a Muslim such an act is extremely offensive.

 

I am not sure if such clandestine "preaching" was ever practiced before westerners took to the Vaishnava faith, but most Hindus are well aware of the wrath of an angry Muslim and would not attempt such tactics.

[theist]

I am behind JNdas on this one. Freedom of religion, freedom of thought, the freedom to be an atheist as well as to be a theist are all the same sacred right bestowed upon every soul by the Supreme Lord. It MUST be respected by devotees and a secular goverment.

 

What should not be allowed is animal slaughter. The Muslim halal practice of slaughter should be pushed outside of India's borders by the government on the basis that animals are citizens of the land also and have a right to life free from unnecessary cruelty. How, or if, someone chooses to honor the foodstuff provided by the Lord is only the business of that person or group alone.

[suchandra]

 

To a Muslim such an act is extremely offensive.

 

 

It is surely greatly adorable what kind of heavy risk these devotees take upon themselves to perform such kind of devotional service and spread the cause of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan mission.

 

 

It is very good to take all risks for Krishna but for our personal satisfaction we should not take the least risk. (Prabhupada, Tuesday, March 7, 1967 - Letter to Rayarama das)

[Guruvani]

At one time when the Muslims were invading and conquering India, they would force Hindus to eat meat or otherwise force them into some act that would cause them to lose their caste.

That was an extremely cruel and malicious act.

 

Now, if the Vaishnavas try to sneak food offered to Hindu gods down the bellies of Muslim children they are asking for a serious reaction that could ultimately result in the burning of temples and the killing of Vaishnavas.

 

Religious fanaticism does not accomplish the goals of the Vaishnava preaching mission in the modern age.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Feeding food that has been offered to Hindu gods to Muslims would be a good way to get yourself killed if in fact such an offense incites the anger of Islamic fanatics.

 

This is another reason to avoid it. Already ISKCON temples have been targeted by Muslim terrorists. Doing something that is obviously extremely offensive to Muslims is just inviting them to target you.

 

Take your own risks if you want, but don't take risks that will endanger other devotees.

[Arjuna Haridas]

I can't say I'd blame them. In Islam, you can't knowingly eat food offered to other dieties besides Allah or else sin will be on your hands (it says so in the Qur'an). We are allowed the right to follow our God, so they should be allowed the right to follow their God.

[Arjuna Haridas]

 

It is surely greatly adorable what kind of heavy risk these devotees take upon themselves to perform such kind of devotional service and spread the cause of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan mission.

 

I don't see it as taking a risk for devotional service at all. It's good to do physical service by cooking food, but to make someone either abandon their religion or starve (which isn't what they did, but what they would have done should they have ignored the Muslims) isn't exactly physical service.

[Pita das]

The devottees explained that they only offered a thali of ffod to Lord Jagganath .If they do not beleave that Lord Jaggantha is real then the remaining food which we consider parasad is boga to them.

 

I dont think Musliums would acceapt any food cooked by the devottees if that was so it should not be forced.

[Guruvani]

If Vaishnavas are going to offer food relief programs and serve prasadam then they should make sure that all Muslims know that the food is Hindu prasadam and that the Hindu sponsors are obliged to offer the food to the God first.

 

Maybe some unoffered food could be provided to poor Muslims as a humanitarian effort?

 

It is a very touchy issue in Asia where the Muslim sector is so militant and reactionary.

 

It seems difficult to do food relief in Asia where so much of the population is Islamic.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

I can't say I'd blame them. In Islam, you can't knowingly eat food offered to other dieties besides Allah or else sin will be on your hands (it says so in the Qur'an). We are allowed the right to follow our God, so they should be allowed the right to follow their God.

 

"Our God"??? "Their God"????

 

La Ilaha Il Allah.

 

There is no God but God.

[realist]

 

India is a secular country, not a Hindu country. All religions should be respected equally in a secular country. Offering food to God is an ancient Hindu custom performed by individuals worshipping in temples. In this case, we are speaking of a secular government providing free meals to Islamic schools. It has nothing to do with ancient Hindu customs. The Muslims clearly don't want food offered to a Hindu deity, and that is understandable. Just because my religion says it is good for them doesn't give me the right to force it on them. How would you feel if in Muslim countries all Hindus were forced to eat halal beef because the Muslims thought it was good for you?

 

When the governement provides free meals to the citizens of India, they do it as a secular service to feed children. It isn't an ancient religious custom they are trying to fulfill. Actually there is no ancient religious custom that involves the government cooking and feeding prasadam to millions of children in schools throughout the country. The ancient custom has always been to offer food to God in temples.

 

 

This is an ignorant statement on several levels. First, most of the Muslims in India have always been Indian. When the Muslims invaded India, they converted native Hindus to their religion. So for most of todays Muslims, there is no place "where they came from". Their country of origin has always been India. The only difference is their forefathers were Hindus, and they are not.

 

Why your statement is ignorant is because you are identifying a country of origin with a particular religion. It is like saying that your "country of origin" is India just because you are a Vaishnava. But the reality is most of the Vaishnavas in the west are not from India and are not Indian. Their country of origin remains the country they were born in - it has nothing to do with the particular religion they choose to follow.

 

India has many religious traditions, and no one should be forced to follow the rituals of a religion he does not believe in. As a Vaishnava, you would not want to be forced to follow buddhist, jain, or zorastrian customs, would you? These are all ancient traditions of India. So just because your tradition of offering food to God is ancient does not justify forcing others to follow it as well.

 

Even the muslims who destroyed so many Krishna Temples?

 

Didn't Prabhupada say 'Let there be one God Krishna, one scripture Bhagavad Gita. And one religion, Sanatam Dharma or Krishna Consciousness.

[Guruvani]

 

Didn't Prabhupada say 'Let there be one God Krishna, one scripture Bhagavad Gita. And one religion, Sanatam Dharma or Krishna Consciousness.

 

 

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one scripture, one God, one religion, and one occupation. Therefore, ekaḿ śāstraḿdevakī-putra-gītam: let there be one scripture only, one common scripture for the whole world — Bhagavad-gītā. Eko devo devakī-putra eva: let there be one God for the whole world — Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Eko mantras tasya nāmāni: and one hymn, one mantra, one prayer — the chanting of His name: Hare Kṛṣṇa, HareKṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Karmāpy ekaḿ tasya devasya sevā: and let there be one work only — the service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

[suchandra]

 

Maybe some unoffered food could be provided to poor Muslims as a humanitarian effort?

 

This seems to be the real issue - are Muslims in India so much overstrained of not being able to manage the feeding of their own children in a highly fertile agricultural nation with 5 harvests per year? The answer is, yes, Muslims urgently are in great need of being supported by the aksaya-patra feeding the poor program:

 

<table class="TableClas" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="heading">Organisation plans to feed a million children by 2010</td></tr><tr><td height="11">

</td></tr><tr><td class="author">Praveen Bose / Bangalore August 24, 2007</td></tr><tr><td height="4">

</td></tr><tr><td style="background-image: url(/images/common/gn_005.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x;">http://www.business-standard.com/economy/storypage.php?leftnm=3&subLeft=1&chklogin=N&autono=295633&tab=r

</td></tr><tr><td height="9">

</td></tr></tbody></table><table class="TableClas" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td>Akshaya Patra Foundation ties up with retail majors to support expansion. </td></tr><tr><td height="5"> </td></tr><tr><td>A flurry of activities begin in the kitchens of Akshaya Patra around 3 am. The grain and pulses are washed and cleaned before being loaded into huge stainless steel containers. The quantities are huge. </td></tr><tr><td height="5"> </td></tr><tr><td>However, the process takes barely 15 minutes, thanks to the highly mechanised cauldrons, which have the capacity to cook 100 kg dal and 250 kg vegetables in minutes. </td></tr><tr><td height="5"> </td></tr><tr><td>Akshaya Patra, the school mid-day meal scheme of the Akshaya Patra Foundation of Iskcon, now covers nearly 800,000 children in about 3,000 government schools in 12 locations across India. “We are set to cross the one million mark by 2010,” said Chanchalapathi Dasa, vice-chairman, Akshaya Patra Foundation. </td></tr><tr><td height="5"> </td></tr><tr><td>In order to support its expanded form, Akshaya Patra has already signed agreements with big retail stores to fulfil its vegetable and pulses needs. </td></tr><tr><td height="5"> </td></tr><tr><td>It is getting vegetables from Safal, the brand of the National Dairy Development Board. “The NGO is now tying up with Reliance Fresh for supply of vegetables,” an Iskcon official said. </td></tr><tr><td height="5"> </td></tr><tr><td>The weekly menu for mid-day meals comprises rice, sambhar, curd, rasam, a rice preparation (puliogre/tomato rice/ bisibele bath (a popular rice preparation) and sweet pongal (a dessert made of rice, ghee and dry fruits). </td></tr><tr><td height="5"> </td></tr><tr><td>The cost of providing the wholesome meal comes to around Rs 4.50 per child, with around Rs 2 as subsidy from the government which comes in kind. The project budget is around Rs 20 crore per annum. </td></tr><tr><td height="5"> </td></tr><tr><td>“The foundation is sensitive to local tastes. While the meal in the South includes sambar, rice and curd, in the North it includes chapati, dal and a vegetable,” said Chanchalapathi Dasa. </td></tr><tr><td height="5"> </td></tr><tr><td>Akshaya Patra has been expanding at a fast pace since its launch in 2000. Initially started in Karnataka, it is spreading its operations to Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan, Orissa and Gujarat. It has invitations from other states too.

 

www.akshayapatra.org

 

</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Arjuna Haridas]

 

"Our God"??? "Their God"????

 

La Ilaha Il Allah.

 

There is no God but God.

 

Wa Muhammadur Rasulallah.

 

If you don't believe Muhammad is the messanger of God, then you have a different God than the Muslims. This is how they see it, so that is why I said "their god" and "our god".

[cbrahma]

ISKCON has often justified no so honest tactics on the basis of spiritual benefit - ajnata sukriti. A line needs to be drawn. Their assumption that anybody should be tricked like this is faulty and in bad faith.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Wa Muhammadur Rasulallah.

 

If you don't believe Muhammad is the messanger of God, then you have a different God than the Muslims. This is how they see it, so that is why I said "their god" and "our god".

 

Thanks for pointing that out. I feel no need to embrace insular thinking, though. I'm happy to accept that Muhammad (peace be unto him) is the messenger of God (though, I can't accept that there are no prophets after him (and I can't blame him for claiming there would be none, given the folks with which he was dealing)).

 

Also, beyond (and within) the Sunni and Shia divisions, aren't there very many varieties of Islam? Wouldn't, say, a Qawwali see things differently than an Iranian mullah?

 

In the poetry of Rumi, we see a very Universal, all-encompassing, harmonious view of existence, don't we?