Food Prepared by Iskcon is First Offered to Lord Jagannath as 'Bhog'

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Islam the religion of peace could really do them self a favour by giving it up, it would go a long way in bringing lasting peace in sub continent don’t you think?

 

Yes, they certainly should give it up. But I would be against anything that would lead to bloodshed, like the BJP attacking the mosque and building a temple.

 

How many innocent deaths would you consider to be justified in order to build a temple on the Janmabhumi site? Is there a limit at which point you would say its not worth the cost in human lives? Suppose 100,000 people get killed in riots, would you still think it was worth building the temple?

[theist]

Exactly. The very building of a Temple is meant to be a spiritual act, an offering to the Lord. A structure dedicated to His worship alone. The altar is sacred because the Lord is present there and it is a meeting place for the lost souls and our Lord. It is an external manifestation of what needs to take place in the heart.

 

Building a Temple is not meant to be a political statement. To build a temple for the satisfaction of one's ego or one's group ego in the form of religious identification is in itself a desecration of the Holy purpose of the very idea of a Temple from the very first stone laid.

 

To build a temple out of such mentality and then expect the Lord to appear there in Murti form as a crowning achievement and ultimate confirmation of one's false ego's efforts to strike back at another group of conditioned souls is futile, farsical and offensive to the Lord. Krsna will not come to stand on such an altar.

 

But you will find Him sitting under some tree listening to the sweet bhajan of His pure devotee worshiping Him in song and out of love.

[suchandra]

 

The Ram Janmabhumi site in Ayodhya has had a mosque on it for more than 500 years. If in the future the site of ISKCON temple in Vrindavan had a mosque on it for 500 years, and if building a temple there would lead to hundreds of thousands of innocent people being murdered, I would give up the land and build a temple on another location. The physical location is not important.

These are good points, hopefully people have enough common-sense to accept.

 

 

Prabhupada: "Just like in India we have experienced during British days. There were Hindu-Muslim riots. So the Hindus would go to the mosque of the Muslim and break it, and the Muslim would go the temples of the Hindus and break the idol. And they’ll think that “We have finished Hindu’s God.” Just like Hindus also think, “Oh, we have broken their mosque. Therefore I have broken their God.” These are foolishness.

In another case… I have got experience. When there was, I mean to say, noncooperation movement of Gandhi’s, the people became riotous, and they began to break anything government, especially the post boxes on the street. They thought by breaking the post boxes they are finishing the post office.

 

So these are foolishness. They are not jnani. One who has got real conception of God, they have no quarrel with each other. All the history of religious fight, Hindu-Muslim or Christian-non-Christian, they are all ignorant. They are all ignorant. One who is in the knowledge, he knows that God is one. God cannot be Hindu. God cannot be Muslim. God cannot be Christian. God is God. He has no material qualification. It is our conception that “God is such and such. God is such and such.” That is imagination. That is called iconographer. So they are not jnani. They are not man in knowledge.

Man in knowledge is different. He knows that God is transcendental."

New York, October 9, 1966

[Murali_Mohan_das]

I don't consider Mr. Bush to be a Christian except superficially. I can't see within his heart, but I can't imagine a Christian acting as he has.

 

Krishna says stand up and fight, yes, but *WHERE* is the fight? Mostly the fight is within our own minds and hearts. Mostly we fight our own pride, envy, hankering for name and fame, exploiting tendency, etc.

 

Even some kinder Muslims have interpreted "jihad" to be an internal struggle--not a struggle without.

 

I don't know where you get "eye for an eye", though--that's Old Testament. To the Christian, the commandment to turn the other cheek supercedes the earlier standard.

 

 

you tell me.

what did Mr Bush do and is still doing, 3000 thousand or so killed 9/11.(horrible) what is so sad is completely wrong country, how ever bad it might have been got punished, and what amount of punishment!

 

an eye for an eye.

 

yet it was Ghandhi who said an eye for an eye will make the whole world go blind.

 

What Did Krishna say; stand up and fight

 

what does Hindu do for so long and are still doing? begged and pleaded

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Once again, I ought to have read through the entire thread before responding to an earlier posting regarding "eye for an eye". Very good reply!

 

 

An eye for an eye is not the teaching of Christ, it is from the old testiment. Christ taught to forgive those who have wronged you.

 

Since you are quoting Gandhi, you should also consider what would be Gandhi's view on the Ayodhya dispute. Gandhiji regularly sung, "ishwara allah tere nama..." Allah is a name of Lord Rama. If you had the spiritual vision of Gandhiji you wouldn't feel hatred for other people's religious monuments such as mosques.

 

Furthermore, you are mixing up two completely unrelated topics. No temple or mosque today should ever be invaded, destroyed, and desecrated. For that the rule of law and the government of India are responsible to provide protection as per the constitution.

 

But we are speaking about a completely unrelated event. Something that has occured 500 years ago, which cannot be undone, and which occured prior to the existence of civilized law. Further, the existing mosque has existed on the disputed site for 500 years. So it is not at all related to your analogy, a temple today being invaded and taken over by people from another religion (something the law of India would protect against).

 

I suspect you are unable to see the difference between the two, and thus it would be pointless to discuss finer points of logic.

 

If the Ramjanmabhoomi site had been an ISKCON temple 500 years ago, I would still be against breaking the mosque and rebuilding the temple. Many of our historical Gaudiya Vaishnava temples in Vrindavan had been destroyed by Muslims, and some remain as ruins even today. Injustices that have been brought upon our forefathers need to be forgiven. Building a temple out of anger and revenge for the sake of your pride is not a spiritual act.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

No doubt, you have considered that the oppression of Bharat/India by the Muslims and the British could be the country's collective karma for perverting and polluting the Vedic tradition for the purpose of exploitation of the masses.

 

Perhaps a little humility is called for rather than Hindu chauvanism/arrogance?

 

 

That is very big of you, and why not you have the teachings of Vedas, but not nearly as big as what people of Bharat had to give up, nearly half the land has been carved up.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

 

 

Yes, they certainly should give it up. But I would be against anything that would lead to bloodshed, like the BJP attacking the mosque and building a temple.

 

How many innocent deaths would you consider to be justified in order to build a temple on the Janmabhumi site? Is there a limit at which point you would say its not worth the cost in human lives? Suppose 100,000 people get killed in riots, would you still think it was worth building the temple?

 

 

Not even one loss of a life is acceptable, that does not stop me making an observation of injustices.

You make good points on Ayodhaya about the lack of visit and interest, and eventual sufferers, I wonder how far is it because of the fear of violence and the security forces harassment.

Although I do not live in India I like to visit all the holy dhams and I sure have been to ayodhaya and have had dip in the holy river Saryou.

It is very desirable to sit under a tree and meditate and do the bhajan, a lot of Hindus would like to do that, we can all make such fine statements to make us feel good, false sense of ego and pride may not be the reason at all but it sounds good. Arjun also desired such an option.

I may not be able grasp the finer points of logic so what, if you are so clever find a solution.

Problem does not disappear sitting on sideline or always required by Hindus to give in, Muslims of India has to come up with a solution also.

Unfortunately Islam does not allow any compromise to infidels

No doubt, you have considered that the oppression of Bharat/India by the Muslims and the British could be the country's collective karma for perverting and polluting the Vedic tradition for the purpose of exploitation of the masses.

 

Perhaps a little humility is called for rather than Hindu chauvanism/arrogance?

 

Oh yes karma is a great escape root, such fatalist view, yes we all get what we deserve but how does that make Hindus responsible for atrocities of Muslims and British. Try telling a victim of rap that by the way it was your karma. Please

Now I will have to start taking lesson in humility, perhaps you can tell me my arrogance, I try and mend my ways, I certainly would not like to reflect my sort comings on Hindus

 

 

Time to give this back to distribution of food, a hungry stomach does not know any majab or sect. there is no reason why Iskcon can not prepare and feed un offered food to Muslims. In my mind any satvic food cooked in the mood of goodness is acceptable.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Oh yes karma is a great escape root, such fatalist view, yes we all get what we deserve but how does that make Hindus responsible for atrocities of Muslims and British. Try telling a victim of rap that by the way it was your karma. Please

Now I will have to start taking lesson in humility, perhaps you can tell me my arrogance, I try and mend my ways, I certainly would not like to reflect my sort comings on Hindus

 

Seeing things in terms of karma is not in the least bit fatalistic--it's justice, plain and simple.

 

Of course, as Guru advises: mercy is higher than justice.

 

So, what do the wise persons do? They aspire to transcend karma by attaining the Mercy of the Lord. They endeavor to act only in service to the Lord, thereby accruing no further karma.

 

To use your example of rape, if one is raped, does that mean that one should rape another in order to "get even"? Would that heal the pain and shame of being materially violated in that manner?

 

As you quote Gandhi yourself: an eye for an eye will make the whole world blind.

 

Srila Prabhupada made it very clear that Gaudiya Vaishnavas are not Hindus or any other mundane designation. One can certainly say that GV holds many practices and traditions in common with "Hinduism", but the Vaishnava aspires for Sanatan Dharma (the soul's eternal, transcendental, and constitutional position and engagement), not another false identity.

[Guruvani]

 

ABSOLUTELY! Since you revile Jesus Christ and the example he left you only need look at Haridas Thakur and the example he left. Are you really saying a Vaisnava should only respect those that respect him?!? "What about offering all respects to others and not expecting respect in return?"

 

Srila Prabhupada wasn't anybody's whipping boy.

He blasted many a nonsense in his day.

Turn the other cheek is for idiots.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

 

 

Seeing things in terms of karma is not in the least bit fatalistic--it's justice, plain and simple.

.

 

To view karma as only tool is fatalistic, Ghana karmano gati. Not so simple.

 

 

Of course, as Guru advises: mercy is higher than justice.

 

So, what do the wise persons do? They aspire to transcend karma by attaining the Mercy of the Lord. They endeavor to act only in service to the Lord, thereby accruing no further karma.

 

Again we speak fine words of mercy and philosophies, nothing new that is not known, an individual who takes this path is honoured but it does not solve the problems that India has. Not everyone is wise, to speak so is very easy. To give practical solution to a given problem is another.

 

 

To use your example of rape, if one is raped, does that mean that one should rape another in order to "get even"? Would that heal the pain and shame of being materially violated in that manner?

 

As you quote Gandhi yourself: an eye for an eye will make the whole world blind.

 

Read the context of my statement, you are way off line.

 

 

Srila Prabhupada made it very clear that Gaudiya Vaishnavas are not Hindus or any other mundane designation. One can certainly say that GV holds many practices and traditions in common with "Hinduism", but the Vaishnava aspires for Sanatan Dharma (the soul's eternal, transcendental, and constitutional position and engagement), not another false identity.

 

This is not any thing to do with Hindu. V GV.

As soon as you give a name it becomes a designation, to call Hindu dharma a false identity is your perception there is no bases to it, I can say the same about your organisation where would it lead us, perhaps you can learn a bit of humility your self.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

This is not any thing to do with Hindu. V GV.

As soon as you give a name it becomes a designation, to call Hindu dharma a false identity is your perception there is no bases to it, I can say the same about your organisation where would it lead us, perhaps you can learn a bit of humility your self.

 

Gurudev is not a self-promoter. He carefully carries out the duties given to him by his master. He does not ask anybody to join any organization, he implores us all to abandon short-sighted thinking and seek after our highest interest. He exemplifies the Vaishnava by giving respect to all.

 

I, on the other hand, thank you for the lesson in humility. We are all subject to the pitfalls of misidentification, regardless of what we hold as our ideal.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

To view karma as only tool is fatalistic, Ghana karmano gati. Not so simple.

 

I don't view karma as a tool, I view it as a law of nature. As I said in another thread, to quarrel with karma is like quarelling with gravity.

 

 

 

Again we speak fine words of mercy and philosophies, nothing new that is not known, an individual who takes this path is honoured but it does not solve the problems that India has.

 

This is where we disagree. I say there IS NO OTHER SOLUTION but sanatan dharma. When we have the correct mindset, all of the pesky details will fall neatly into place.

 

Do you think poisoning the land, air and water by unchecked industrialization is the solution to India's dillemmas? Should India be following the fine example of China?

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

 

 

I don't view karma as a tool, I view it as a law of nature. As I said in another thread, to quarrel with karma is like quarelling with gravity.

 

quite right for the want of better use of the word, but it still remains ghana.

even gravity is overcome but it requires a little effort.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is where we disagree. I say there IS NO OTHER SOLUTION but sanatan dharma. When we have the correct mindset, all of the pesky details will fall neatly into place.

 

Do you think poisoning the land, air and water by unchecked industrialization is the solution to India's dillemmas? Should India be following the fine example of China?

 

now we are digressing completely. perhaps you may want to start a new thread.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

now we are digressing completely. perhaps you may want to start a new thread.

 

No, thanks!! I'm getting tired of the sound of my own keyboard.

 

I'd best chant some japa and read some scripture for a while!

 

All the best to you!!

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Not even one loss of a life is acceptable, that does not stop me making an observation of injustices.

Everyone accepts that injustice has been done by past Mulsims. But forcibly building a temple on the Janmabhumi site in Ayodhya will lead to riots and at least 50,000 innocent people or more will lose their lives throughout India. This is the main reason why I am against building a temple there. If a temple could be built without the loss of life, then I would support it. But in India this is impossible. Many amongst the Hindus and Muslims are full of hatred and are just waiting for an excuse to seek revenge against the others. Neither group has proper respect for the value of human life. Under such circumstances humanity is not ready for a Rama temple on the Janmasthan site.

 

Justice should not be attained at the expense of other innocent people. And in this case so many innocent people will be killed to attain the justice of building a temple on the Janmasthan site. When justice is beyond the reach of our human endeavors, then we leave it to the ultimate judge to give everyone their punishments and rewards for past attrocities.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

 

 

 

Everyone accepts that injustice has been done by past Mulsims.

 

 

If that was the case, muslims should help undo the past mistake and help build the future, unfortunately not every one accepts they made any mistakes, they came here to change us even with brutal use of force they largely failed, but their mission still remain to bring the infidels to their fold, and that’s is why I do not think an amicable solution would be found any time soon.

 

 

But forcibly building a temple on the Janmabhumi site in Ayodhya will lead to riots and at least 50,000 innocent people or more will lose their lives throughout India. This is the main reason why I am against building a temple there. If a temple could be built without the loss of life, then I would support it.

 

I agree completely.

 

 

But in India this is impossible. Many amongst the Hindus and Muslims are full of hatred and are just waiting for an excuse to seek revenge against the others. Neither group has proper respect for the value of human life. Under such circumstances humanity is not ready for a Rama temple on the Janmasthan site.

 

I do not condone mindless act of violence what ever group that may be, what drives them, revenge for what? Politicians do not help, their greed for power to play with peoples life.

Terrorists blowing up and killing innocents in thousands government un able to protect, no wonder the situation is boiling waiting to explode. So who do we apportion blame on?

 

 

 

Justice should not be attained at the expense of other innocent people. And in this case so many innocent people will be killed to attain the justice of building a temple on the Janmasthan site. When justice is beyond the reach of our human endeavors, then we leave it to the ultimate judge to give everyone their punishments and rewards for past attrocities.

 

 

Wise words, human capacity to endure knows no bound in this case hindus have to wait a bit more, there may be a delay but truth always prevails in the end.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[theist]

 

Pranam

If that was the case, muslims should help undo the past mistake and help build the future, unfortunately not every one accepts they made any mistakes, they came here to change us even with brutal use of force they largely failed, but their mission still remain to bring the infidels to their fold, and that’s is why I do not think an amicable solution would be found any time soon.

 

This is samsara and what's more kali-yuga. Nothing will be solved in a satisfactory manner for all parties. "Parties" means conceiving of separate interests.

All anyone can do is to personally take the high path and travel above the fray. Sectarian religionists by nature will quarrel with other sectarian religionists forever.

 

 

 

 

I do not condone mindless act of violence what ever group that may be, what drives them, revenge for what? Politicians do not help, their greed for power to play with peoples life.

Terrorists blowing up and killing innocents in thousands government un able to protect, no wonder the situation is boiling waiting to explode. So who do we apportion blame on?

Everyone involved is to blame. Then again no one is to blame because the modes alone are active. The transcendentalist resolves this by rising above the need to fix blame on anyone seeing instead the Supreme Lord as the only controller. This entails giving up hatred and animosity for those we think are our enemies and most of us are very attached to hating our perceived enemies.

 

Still the governments are responsible for protective action in the world. Duty can't be whimiscally set aside as we are taught in the Gita. But in this age the governments are peopled by exploiters and not protectors.

 

An impossible situation. In a house fire there is a point where that fire may be put out and the house saved. There is also a point when any attempt to save the house is futile and one must simply escape the burning structure.

We must be able to read the situation and act accordingly. IMO things are destined to only get worse in the world at large. So we have to leave this world by transcendence and not linger pouring small pails of water on the raging fire.

 

It is beyond our control.

 

Hare Krsna

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Everyone involved is to blame. Then again no one is to blame because the modes alone are active. The transcendentalist resolves this by rising above the need to fix blame on anyone seeing instead the Supreme Lord as the only controller. This entails giving up hatred and animosity for those we think are our enemies and most of us are very attached to hating our perceived enemies.

The band James agrees with you (and so do I):

 

"Stop, stop talking about who's to blame

When all that counts is how to change"

 

James, from "Born of Frustration" (an awesome piece of music!!)

 

 

Wooooowooooowoooowooo

Wooooowooooowoooowooo

 

All this frustration

I can't meet all my desires

Strange conversation

Self control has just expired

All an illusion

Only in my head you don't exist

Who are you foolin'

Don't need a shrink but an exorcist

 

Lalalala

lalalala

lalalala

la

 

Wooooowooooowoooowooo

 

Show me the movie of who you are and where you're from

Born of frustration

Caught upon the webs you spun

Where's the confusion

A vision of what life is like

Show the movie that doesn't deal in black and white

 

Talk talk talkin 'bout who's to blame

When all that counts is how to change

Stop stop talkin 'bout who's to blame

When all that counts is how to change

 

Lalalala

lalalala

lalalala

la

 

All this frustration

All this frustration

Who put round eyes on a butterfly's wings

All this frustration

All this frustration

Who gave the leopard spots and taught the birds to sing

Born of frustration

Born of frustration

 

Wooooowooooowoooowooo

Wooooowooooowoooowooo

 

I'm living in the weeds where nothing is the way it seems

Where no one is who they need to be

Where nothing seems that real to me

'Bout time we filled our lives

Upon the walls of gold no solid ground

The world is spinnin' endlessly

We're clinging to our own beliefs

 

Born of frustration

Born of frustration

 

Wooooowooooowoooowooo

Wooooowooooowoooowooo

[Ganeshprasad]

 

This is samsara and what's more kali-yuga. Nothing will be solved in a satisfactory manner for all parties. "Parties" means conceiving of separate interests.

All anyone can do is to personally take the high path and travel above the fray. Sectarian religionists by nature will quarrel with other sectarian religionists forever.

 

It is so easy to say that, sitting from a distance making judgement, and yes call them both Sectarian what the heck it has nothing to do with me.

 

Drihtrastra excuse was he was blind and he refused to hear the truth due to his love of his childrean.

 

Bhisma pita was honour bound so he sided with unrighteous Drona and Kripacharya were loyal to the Kingdom, such great personalities’ silence and remaining indifferent to the truth, resulted in a war.

 

Sure this is kali yuga for even a simple truth has no value.

Yes let us be selfish and travel above the fray. We see no evil, do no evil and hear no evil, some how the evil will pass us by.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[theist]

 

It is so easy to say that, sitting from a distance making judgement, and yes call them both Sectarian what the heck it has nothing to do with me.

 

Drihtrastra excuse was he was blind and he refused to hear the truth due to his love of his childrean.

 

Bhisma pita was honour bound so he sided with unrighteous Drona and Kripacharya were loyal to the Kingdom, such great personalities’ silence and remaining indifferent to the truth, resulted in a war.

 

Sure this is kali yuga for even a simple truth has no value.

Yes let us be selfish and travel above the fray. We see no evil, do no evil and hear no evil, some how the evil will pass us by.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

So what are you doing about it besides moaning and groaning on an internet forum. Why not round up a few of your hindu buddies and go build the temple.

 

Remember Gujarat in 2001? Did you learn nothing from that! Only the darkest of demons chant Rama Rama or Allah Akbar as they commit violence and acts of hatred against others. So-called doing it in the name of religion does not cleanse the crime my friend. But nontheless it is time to put your money where your mouth is.

 

Go get 'em tiger

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

 

 

So what are you doing about it besides moaning and groaning on an internet forum. Why not round up a few of your hindu buddies and go build the temple.

 

I keep moaning groaning if that is what you call truth, Hindus has been trampled over all over the world, we are used as punching bag and seen as soft target, we are the ones that has been wronged, it us who endure and endure we must, but we so much as speak about it we get branded sectarian.

 

I have no desire to build a temple, if Ayodhya is what you mean, otherwise building a temple would be a noble cause, for the moment I am satisfied with a temple in my house.

 

And yes I did round up my Hindu buddies in saving Bhakti vedant manor and you know what, this despite hearing in private meetings amongst devotees, addressed by senior sanyasis declaring boldly, we may call our self Hindus in this instance but in reality we are not, such deceit and yet us gullible hindus fought for our right to worship at the manor.

 

 

Remember Gujarat in 2001? Did you learn nothing from that! Only the darkest of demons chant Rama Rama or Allah Akbar as they commit violence and acts of hatred against others. So-called doing it in the name of religion does not cleanse the crime my friend. But nontheless it is time to put your money where your mouth is.

 

Yes and my heart goes out to those who lost their life.

 

Do you really know what actually happened, those whom you call demon chanting ram ram, were returning pilgrim travelling in the train and they were burnt alive by Muslims, what followed was a reaction I do not condone their action just as I do not condone what followed from 9/11.

 

So I want take your advise and go get them but I will moan and groan to speak the truth.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[theist]

 

Pranam

 

 

 

I keep moaning groaning if that is what you call truth, Hindus has been trampled over all over the world, we are used as punching bag and seen as soft target, we are the ones that has been wronged, it us who endure and endure we must, but we so much as speak about it we get branded sectarian.

 

But don't you see everyone in the material is a punching bag and soft target for someone else. All have wronged and been wronged. We need to transcend this whole tit for tat scenario and enter the spiritual world. This takes loving and forgiving our so-called enemies. Very difficult to do but we must for our own sake.

 

 

I have no desire to build a temple, if Ayodhya is what you mean, otherwise building a temple would be a noble cause, for the moment I am satisfied with a temple in my house.

 

Yes this is perfect. So why let your mind be disturbed by something that happened 500 years ago? Let it go. No need to forget but forgive and free yourself from the anger and resentment.

 

 

And yes I did round up my Hindu buddies in saving Bhakti vedant manor and you know what, this despite hearing in private meetings amongst devotees, addressed by senior sanyasis declaring boldly, we may call our self Hindus in this instance but in reality we are not, such deceit and yet us gullible hindus fought for our right to worship at the manor.

 

Well I know what you men here. I also see that Iskcon is very duplicitous in this regard. We should say what we mean in a straightforward way as Srila Prabhupada did. The devotee is neither hindu christian buddhist or muslim although due to particular backgrounds they may appear that way. This type of thing is another reason I do not consider myself a part of Iskcon. And you shouldn't have to fight for your right to worship at the manor. Srila Prabhupada made it very clear when he was here that when Indians who were now in the west came to an Iskcon temple that they were MORE THAN WELCOME to worship at his temples anywhere in the world and he taught that his disciples were to show them an extra degree of tolerance and courtesy even if their mode of worship was a little different in some aspects.

 

 

 

 

Yes and my heart goes out to those who lost their life.

 

Do you really know what actually happened, those whom you call demon chanting ram ram, were returning pilgrim travelling in the train and they were burnt alive by Muslims, what followed was a reaction I do not condone their action just as I do not condone what followed from 9/11.

 

Yes, I was in Vrndavan when it all happened. Horrific event from start to finish by all involved.

 

 

So I want take your advise and go get them but I will moan and groan to speak the truth.

 

I don't want to be misunderstood. I am not a pacifist in this regard. I believe terrorists,who right now are mostly self-identified as militant muslims, should be hunted down and killed on the spot. But by the appropiate military establishments of the world's governments. I am far far right of even Bush in this regard who has messed up the war on terror with the war in Iraq more than could be imagined.

 

Terrorist come in all uniforms, religious as well as atheists like Mao and Stalin and sometimes my own government. Add to that the stret criminals that inhabit our cities and we see the world is filled with terrorists of all descriptions.

 

But here is the thing. Unless we are kystriyas and properly engaged we only do ourselbves harm in dwelling on these horrific things. I know from my own experience that becoming obsessed with things beyond our control will only drive us more insane.

 

We need to speak the truth as you say, and even the wordly truth needs to be said as you indicated. No problem, But we need to speak that truth in proper relation to the transcendental truth of God. In this way we can really make a difference.

 

As a devotee you have so much knowledge that is missing throughout the world. Our main battle is with atheism in all it's forms.

 

We should choose our fields of battle wisely Ganeshprasad my brother.

 

Hare Krsna

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

I don't want to be misunderstood. I am not a pacifist in this regard. I believe terrorists,who right now are mostly self-identified as militant muslims, should be hunted down and killed on the spot. But by the appropiate military establishments of the world's governments. I am far far right of even Bush in this regard who has messed up the war on terror with the war in Iraq more than could be imagined.

 

I think I'm going to be sick!!

 

 

Terrorist come in all uniforms, religious as well as atheists like Mao and Stalin and sometimes my own government. Add to that the stret criminals that inhabit our cities and we see the world is filled with terrorists of all descriptions.

 

OK, that makes me feel a little better. The US military is the largest terrorist organization in the world. There is no honor in their fight.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

The US military is the largest terrorist organization in the world. There is no honor in their fight.

 

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were arguably the two largest terrorist attacks in world history.

 

Kshatriyas face their enemies and look them in the eyes, they don't kill women and children using remote drone planes from thousands of miles away.

 

Kshatriyas don't kill their own men (remember Pat Tillman or the unlucky Canadians in Afghanistan?).

 

There is not one Kshatriya in the US military (even those who identify as being Vaishnavas).

[theist]

I would answer that but then this discussion is why I abandoned the world review forum.