Interesting Proof of Reincarnation in the Bible Must See

[CCC]

Here Lord Jehovah is saying that the King of Tyrus was a cherub in his previous life and he fall down from the eden because he became wicked (as cherub he was full of knowledge and beauty).

 

Ezekiel 28 1-19

The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:

4With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:

5By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

6Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

7Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

8They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

9Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

10Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

11Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

A Prophecy Against the King of Tyre MODERN VERSION

 

1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:

" 'In the pride of your heart

you say, "I am a god;

I sit on the throne of a god

in the heart of the seas."

But you are a man and not a god,

though you think you are as wise as a god. 3 Are you wiser than Daniel ^[a] ?

Is no secret hidden from you?

4 By your wisdom and understanding

you have gained wealth for yourself

and amassed gold and silver

in your treasuries.

5 By your great skill in trading

you have increased your wealth,

and because of your wealth

your heart has grown proud.

6 " 'Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says:

" 'Because you think you are wise,

as wise as a god,

7 I am going to bring foreigners against you,

the most ruthless of nations;

they will draw their swords against your beauty and wisdom

and pierce your shining splendor.

8 They will bring you down to the pit,

and you will die a violent death

in the heart of the seas.

9 Will you then say, "I am a god,"

in the presence of those who kill you?

You will be but a man, not a god,

in the hands of those who slay you.

10 You will die the death of the uncircumcised

at the hands of foreigners.

I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.' "

11 The word of the LORD came to me: 12 "Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:

" 'You were the model of perfection,

full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

13 You were in Eden,

the garden of God;

every precious stone adorned you:

ruby, topaz and emerald,

chrysolite, onyx and jasper,

sapphire, ^[b] turquoise and beryl. ^[c]

Your settings and mountings ^[d] were made of gold;

on the day you were created they were prepared.

14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,

for so I ordained you.

You were on the holy mount of God;

you walked among the fiery stones.

15 You were blameless in your ways

from the day you were created

till wickedness was found in you.

16 Through your widespread trade

you were filled with violence,

and you sinned.

So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,

and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,

from among the fiery stones.

17 Your heart became proud

on account of your beauty,

and you corrupted your wisdom

because of your splendor.

So I threw you to the earth;

I made a spectacle of you before kings.

18 By your many sins and dishonest trade

you have desecrated your sanctuaries.

So I made a fire come out from you,

and it consumed you,

and I reduced you to ashes on the ground

in the sight of all who were watching.

19 All the nations who knew you

are appalled at you;

you have come to a horrible end

and will be no more.' "

[Arjuna Haridas]

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son so that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but will have eternal life" (John 3:16)

This alone disproves any Christianity-Hindu "hybrid" religions out there. All of the teachings of Jesus are written in the same books as things stated by disciples that disagrees with Hinduism. Even Jesus says some things that disagrees with Hinduism.

 

And the Old Testament definately disagrees with Hinduism. Just look at the 2nd and 4th commandments of the 10 commandments. The OT also states a punishment for those who don't observe the 4th commandment, and nowhere in Hindu scriptures is a Sabbath mentioned or required.

[Guruvani]

 

Here Lord Jehovah is saying that the King of Tyrus was a cherub in his previous life and he fall down from the eden for thinking that he was god (as cherub he was full of knowledge and beauty).

 

 

That is a nifty little theory on your part, but even if you are correct I doubt that it will really matter to those who need to understand it - the Christians.

 

I also doubt that it will help them to give up eating meat and take to the chanting of the Holy Name which is the only hope for anyone in this age of Kali-yuga.

[CCC]

 

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son so that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but will have eternal life" (John 3:16)

This alone disproves any Christianity-Hindu "hybrid" religions out there. All of the teachings of Jesus are written in the same books as things stated by disciples that disagrees with Hinduism. Even Jesus says some things that disagrees with Hinduism.

 

And the Old Testament definately disagrees with Hinduism. Just look at the 2nd and 4th commandments of the 10 commandments. The OT also states a punishment for those who don't observe the 4th commandment, and nowhere in Hindu scriptures is a Sabbath mentioned or required.

 

your comments are external.

 

Prabhupada used to say, sacred scriptures may differ but all are talking about reaching love of God, that is the aim of all scriptures.

 

2nd commandment talks about idol worship. If you read the bible, you could read that those people used to worship animal idols and demons, in fact, these people offered as sacrifice his own childrens, like aztec sacrifices.

For that reason was forbiden for them idol worship.

 

4th commandment talks about sabbath , or the resting day for Christians is sunday. thanks to god there is a day in the week where you don't have to work. Is a day for God.

thanks to this day I can go to the Hare Krsna temple chants Hare Krsna, eat some prasadam etc.

 

If god didn't said us to rest a day on the week, maybe we would working seven days in the week:confused:

[Arjuna Haridas]

 

Prabhupada used to say, sacred scriptures may differ but all are talking about reaching love of God, that is the aim of all scriptures.

 

That is the aim of all "serious religion" scriptures (besides Buddhist and Jain scriptures). However, the fact that scriptures talk about loving God doesn't mean that the scripture was created by God. Look at the Qur'an, for example. The Bhavishya Purana contains a prohpecy from Lord Shiva about Muhammad and at the end calls Muhammad an incarnation of a demon (I forgot the demon's name). The prophecy is dead-on to the life of Muhammad. That means that the Qur'an, even though it speaks about loving God, isn't from God.

 

 

2nd commandment talks about idol worship. If you read the bible, you could read that those people used to worship animal idols and demons, in fact, these people offered as sacrifice his own childrens, like aztec sacrifices.

For that reason was forbiden for them idol worship.

 

If it is true that the Bible is a Hindu scripture, then that means that puja is forbidden for us. That also means that the Vedas and the Bible contradict each other, and the Vedas are always taken first.

 

 

4th commandment talks about sabbath , or the resting day for Christians is sunday. thanks to god there is a day in the week where you don't have to work. Is a day for God.

thanks to this day I can go to the Hare Krsna temple chants Hare Krsna, eat some prasadam etc.

 

If god didn't said us to rest a day on the week, maybe we would working seven days in the week:confused:

 

A sabbath day isn't a day where you would go to the Temple and worship. A sabbath day is a day where you would stay home and do nothing. This is why the Jews didn't go to worship on the sabbath. They didn't even go to collect food or anything. Even fishing on the sabbath day is forbidden.

[CCC]

 

That is the aim of all "serious religion" scriptures (besides Buddhist and Jain scriptures). However, the fact that scriptures talk about loving God doesn't mean that the scripture was created by God. Look at the Qur'an, for example. The Bhavishya Purana contains a prohpecy from Lord Shiva about Muhammad and at the end calls Muhammad an incarnation of a demon (I forgot the demon's name). The prophecy is dead-on to the life of Muhammad. That means that the Qur'an, even though it speaks about loving God, isn't from God.

 

Yes I have read that but that is not in all bhavishya purana versions (about Quran and Jesus) some people said that was introduced after muslims invasion in india also bhavisya purana talks about Lord Jesus as a savoir of the mlechas. Sri Caitanya said to the Kasi that the Koran has many errors, and is not very elaborated because is not very ancient compared with the vedas, something like that.

 

Personally I think that nothing is compared to Srimad Bhagavatam, Bhagavad Gita and CC as a spiritual Books in the world.

 

 

 

If it is true that the Bible is a Hindu scripture, then that means that puja is forbidden for us. That also means that the Vedas and the Bible contradict each other, and the Vedas are always taken first.

 

No, the bible is not a vedic scripture and for them is forbbiden idol's worship, they can't creat and idol of Jehovah or Jesus, because the bible never said that. In the vedas are not forbiden idol's worship, in fact, the vedas says how to worship an Idol fully of details and how to make them, here is not imagination, the idol of Krsna is made as Krsna is, so they can do that. Also Sri Kapiladeva says how he is pleased with idol's worship, if someone wants to worship the form of Krsna as idol, must read kapiladeva instructions in third canto.

 

 

A sabbath day isn't a day where you would go to the Temple and worship. A sabbath day is a day where you would stay home and do nothing. This is why the Jews didn't go to worship on the sabbath. They didn't even go to collect food or anything. Even fishing on the sabbath day is forbidden.

 

People in that day don't work, but it is said in the bible that is a day for rest, praying and studying about god.

[theist]

Concerning post #1. Reincarnation or the fall of the soul?

[CCC]

 

Concerning post #1. Reincarnation or the fall of the soul?

 

I had the same doubt.

 

but Both are correct. Fall of the soul from the Eden in Earth (not spiritual world), and posterior reincarnation as king.

[theist]

 

I had the same doubt.

 

but Both are correct. Fall of the soul from the Eden in Earth (not spiritual world), and posterior reincarnation as king.

 

My thoughts are the story of Eden, Adam and Eve is an analogy about the fall. I don't take it literally.

[CCC]

 

My thoughts are the story of Eden, Adam and Eve is an analogy about the fall. I don't take it literally.

 

The earth was a heaven and Adam and Eve were the first human being in the earth, all of us descend from them, this cherub was a guardian in this eden.

the history of Adam and Eve are from millions and millions of years, They were the first human being in this planet and they fall, that cherub also fall and reincarnate as a king again.

 

some indian scriptures talks about a first couple of human being, bhavisya purana and others from ceylan, I don't remember now.... it is said that the heaven was in ceylan.

also said that lord brahma created the first men from a germen of himself Adima and Eva

[theist]

Well there had to be a first human to walk on the planet sometime I suppose.

[HerServant]

Eve in Hebrew is hv (no vowels)

 

Hv is jiva .. Adam shares roots with atman

 

Now read the story of the fall in context of Atman and jiva. The same cause of the "fall" in vedic scripture is the same.

 

That is, the consciouness of Anu (Atom .. Adam) the masculine individual aspect of Atman with sensual aspect of jiva appears ego, the vain idea of an existence separate from God.

 

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods,.. " Genesis 3:5

 

The temptation described is one that Atman and Jiva desired an existence separate from God.

 

Envy God's position. This is why BG ch 9:1 Krsna says "' Because you are NEVER envious of ME .."

 

Only after the first original sin is removed, then can you get the most confidential knowledge of Krsna.

 

HS and yours.

[theist]

And the forbidden fruit on the tree was the knowledge of good and evil i.e. mundane duality. And on the day Adam ate of that fruit he was told he would know death.

 

BLOOOOP... down to martyaloka

[gHari]

 

Here Lord Jehovah is saying that the King of Tyrus was a cherub in his previous life and he fall down from the eden because he became wicked (as cherub he was full of knowledge and beauty).

 

 

Does this mean that some day soon we can expect a fall/no fall debate to arise amongst Christian theologians? I guess anything that keeps us thinking of God is a good thing ... short of the Kamsa thing.

[suchandra]

 

 

 

No, the bible is not a vedic scripture and for them is forbbiden idol's worship, they can't creat and idol of Jehovah or Jesus, because the bible never said that.

Gradually it's getting more and more clear why Lord Caitanya mainly only preached one thing, the chanting of the Holy Names of God.

What does the Bible say about reciting the Holy Name of God?

 

"So our this propaganda, “Chant the holy name of God", so somebody may decline that “Why shall I chant the name of Krishna? This is Hindu name,” or “Indian name.” But Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that if you decline to chant the particular name “Krishna,” then if you have got your name of God, you can chant that also. We are not dogmatic. If you have got actually the name of God, you chant that. That is His instruction."

(ACBSP May 24, 1975)

 

And as soon someone chants the Holy Names of God, he/she is already initiated:

 

"Chanting Hare Krishna is our main business, that is real initiation. And as you are all following my instruction, in that matter, the initiator is already there."

 

(ACBSP, Letter to TKG, August 19, 1968)

 

Preaching to Christians by presenting vedic proof would first require to bring them to the point of rejecting the Bible. Better preaching would be to bring them to the point of chanting 16 rounds of Jehovah or whatever Names they might like to chant.

[HerServant]

 

What does the Bible say about reciting the Holy Name of God?

 

"So our this propaganda, “Chant the holy name of God", so somebody may decline that “Why shall I chant the name of Krishna? This is Hindu name,” or “Indian name.” But Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that if you decline to chant the particular name “Krishna,” then if you have got your name of God, you can chant that also. We are not dogmatic. If you have got actually the name of God, you chant that. That is His instruction."

(ACBSP May 24, 1975)

 

And as soon someone chants the Holy Names of God, he/she is already initiated:

 

"Chanting Hare Krishna is our main business, that is real initiation. And as you are all following my instruction, in that matter, the initiator is already there."

 

(ACBSP, Letter to TKG, August 19, 1968)

 

Preaching to Christians by presenting vedic proof would first require to bring them to the point of rejecting the Bible. Better preaching would be to bring them to the point of chanting 16 rounds of Jehovah or whatever Names they might like to chant.

 

The Bible says a LOT about the Holy Name of God starting with the 10 commandments "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain"

 

 

 

Both Hebrew scriptures and Christian Scriptures, reverence and praising God by invoking His Holy Name is a constant. Jesus taught disciples to pray to the Father saying "Hallowed be The Name" .

 

 

Your name spoken is a spreading perfume - that is why the maidens love you - Song of Songs 1:3

 

The Bible is a Vedic text as well. You can understand this easily when reading Veda, then reading Bible, but it is not so easy the other way around.

 

Jesus said :

 

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?" Matt 7:7-11

 

This is is a reference to spiritual inquiry. The Bible has an entire book about Madhura rasa too.

 

See http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/songs/song1.htm

[suchandra]

 

The Bible says a LOT about the Holy Name of God starting with the 10 commandments "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain"

 

 

 

Both Hebrew scriptures and Christian Scriptures, reverence and praising God by invoking His Holy Name is a constant. Jesus taught disciples to pray to the Father saying "Hallowed be The Name" .

 

 

 

The Bible is a Vedic text as well. You can understand this easily when reading Veda, then reading Bible, but it is not so easy the other way around.

 

Jesus said :

 

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?" Matt 7:7-11

 

This is is a reference to spiritual inquiry. The Bible has an entire book about Madhura rasa too.

 

See http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/songs/song1.htm

Thanks HerServant, how to deal with that the Bible doesnt mention the phrases, "eternal soul" or, "immortal soul"? What does the Bible really teach? Life is a combination of earth?

"Theologians frankly admit that the expression 'immortal soul' is not in the Bible."

 

The Biblical Truth About the Immortal Soul

http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/HL/immortalsoul.htm

 

Traditional beliefs about heaven and hell are based on an underlying teaching-that everyone has an immortal soul that must go somewhere after his physical life ends.

This belief isn't unique to traditional Christianity. "All religions affirm that there is an aspect of the human person that lives on after the physical life has ended" (World Scripture: A Comparative Anthology of Sacred Texts, Andrew Wilson, editor, 1995, p. 225). In other words, in general all religions believe in some kind of immortal essence, a spirit that lives on separately after the physical body dies. Most professing Christians call this the immortal soul.

Failure to properly understand this subject is a fundamental reason for the prevalent beliefs regarding heaven and hell. If an immortal quality exists in a human being, it must depart from the body when the body dies. The typical views of heaven and hell have as their foundation the belief in the immortal soul that leaves the body at death.

What does the Bible say about the existence of an immortal soul? Does this belief have a foundation in Scripture?

Many are surprised to learn that the words "immortal" and "soul" appear together nowhere in the Bible. "... Theologians frankly admit that the expression 'immortal soul' is not in the Bible but confidently state that Scripture assumes the immortality of every soul" (The Fire That Consumes, Edward William Fudge, 1994, p. 22, emphasis added).

That such an important assumption should not be explicitly taught in the Bible is surprising, considering how confidently theologians hold to this doctrine. If it isn't found in the Bible, where did the idea originate?

The New Bible Dictionary offers this background of the nonbiblical nature of the immortal-soul doctrine. "The Greeks thought of the body as a hindrance to true life and they looked for the time when the soul would be free from its shackles. They conceived of life after death in terms of the immortality of the soul ..." (1996, p. 1010, "Resurrection").

According to this idea, the body goes to the grave at death and the soul continues to exist as a separate conscious entity.

Belief in a separate soul and body was popular in Greek society and was taught by one of their most famous philosophers. "The immortality of the soul was a principal doctrine of the Greek philosopher, Plato ... In Plato's thinking, the soul ... was self-moving and indivisible ... It existed before the body which it inhabited, and which it would survive" (Fudge, p. 32).

 

How the immortal-soul idea entered Christianity

When did the concept of the immortality of the soul enter the world of Christianity? The Old Testament does not teach it. The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia explains: "... We are influenced always more or less by the Greek, Platonic idea that the body dies, yet the soul is immortal. Such an idea is utterly contrary to the Israelite consciousness and is nowhere found in the Old Testament" (1960, Vol. 2, p. 812, "Death").

The first-century Church did not hold to this belief, either. "... The doctrine is increasingly regarded as a post-apostolic innovation, not only unnecessary but positively harmful to proper biblical interpretation and understanding" (Fudge, p. 24).

If such an idea were not in place in the Church during the time of the apostles, how did it come to assume such an important place in Christian doctrine?

Several authorities recognize that the teachings of Plato and other Greek philosophers have profoundly influenced Christianity. Jeffrey Burton Russell states: "... The unbiblical idea of immortality did not die but even flourished, because theologians ... admired Greek philosophy [and] found support there for the notion of the immortal soul ..." (A History of Heaven, 1997, p. 79).

The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, in its article on death, states that "the 'departure' of the nephesh [soul] must be viewed as a figure of speech, for it does not continue to exist independently of the body, but dies with it ... No biblical text authorizes the statement that the 'soul' is separated from the body at the moment of death" (1962, Vol. 1, p. 802, "Death").

Should we then accept a teaching that is nonbiblical? Many people take it for granted that their doctrines are based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ and the Bible. Yet Jesus said in a prayer to His Father, "Your word is truth" (John 17:17). Does God give men the liberty to draw from the world's philosophers and incorporate their beliefs into biblical teaching?

God inspired the apostle Peter to write: "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit" (2 Peter 1:20-21). We must look to the words of Christ, the prophets and the apostles in the Holy Scriptures if we are to understand the truth about the doctrine of the immortality of the soul or any other religious teaching.

Let's dig into the Scriptures to see exactly what the Bible tells us about the soul.

 

Soul in the Hebrew Scriptures

The Old Testament teaches that the soul dies. In Genesis 2:7 we find that when Adam was created he became a "living soul" (King James Version). In Genesis 9:12 the same Hebrew words are translated "living creature" and refer not to humans, but to every sort of animal distinct from man.

God told Adam and Eve, two "living souls," that they would "surely die" if they disobeyed Him (Genesis 2:17). God also told Adam that He had taken him from the dust of the earth and he would return to dust (Genesis 3:19).

In the Old Testament, man is referred to as a "soul" (Hebrew nephesh) more than 130 times. The term is also applied to sea creatures (Genesis 1:20-21), birds (verse 30) and land animals, including cattle and "creeping" creatures such as reptiles and insects (verse 24).

It follows, then, if we make an argument for man possessing an immortal soul, animals must also have an immortal soul, since the same Hebrew word is used of man and animal alike. Yet no biblical scholars would seriously make such claims for animals. The truth is, the term soul refers to any living creature (whether man or beast), not to some separate, living essence temporarily inhabiting the body.

Among the plainer statements in the Bible about what happens to the soul at death are Ezekiel 18:4 and 18:20. Both passages clearly state that "the soul who sins shall die" (emphasis added throughout). Not only do these scriptures show that the soul dies, but the soul is identified as a physical being-not a separate spirit entity having an existence independent of its physical host.

The Scriptures tell us that the dead do not have consciousness. "For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing ..." (Ecclesiastes 9:5). They are not conscious in some other state or place.

 

The New Testament teaching

The New Testament contains several statements that confirm that the wicked will die-permanently. In Matthew 7:13-14, in exhorting His disciples to choose the way that leads to life, Jesus states that the end of those who do not choose life is destruction. He contrasts that path with the way of righteousness, telling us "narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

The apostle Paul also stated that the wicked will die. In Romans 6:20-21 he talks about those who were slaves of sin and says that for them "the end of those things is death." So those who are slaves of sin, who habitually commit sin, can perish completely.

Romans 6:23 is one of the best-known verses of the Bible. Yet many people either overlook what it plainly says or read into it an entirely different meaning. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

This verse plainly tells us two crucial truths. First, the punishment of the wicked is death, not a life of eternal suffering in another place. Second, we do not already have eternal life. It is something God chooses to give us. We see from this verse that a fleshly human being has nothing about him that is immortal; God must give eternal life to us through our Savior, Jesus the Messiah. In 1 Timothy 6:16 Paul also tells us that God alone has immortality.

Paul makes a similar statement in Galatians 6:8: "The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life" (New International Version). This tells us what happens to sinners. Eventually they will "reap destruction," but those who obey God will ultimately receive eternal life.

In Philippians 3:18 Paul speaks of those who are "enemies of the cross of Christ." Verse 19 says that their end is destruction, not eternal torment in another life after death.

Finally, in 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Paul emphatically declares that the wicked will come to a complete end: "These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord ..."

So is man an immortal soul, or does he have an immortal soul? The Bible declares plainly that man is temporary, of the dust of the earth. There is no immortal quality about man at all-unless and until he receives it from God through a resurrection.

The Bible clearly states that man puts on immortality at the resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:50-54), not at the end of his physical life. Until that time man has no more permanence than animals.

[HerServant]

 

Thanks HerServant, how to deal with that the Bible doesnt mention the phrases, "eternal soul" or, "immortal soul"? What does the Bible really teach? Life is a combination of earth?

"Theologians frankly admit that the expression 'immortal soul' is not in the Bible."

 

You mean, Protestant theologians who must speculate because they reject the authority of apostolic (disciplic) succession and the GSS in general.

 

The mention of the soul is right there in the 2nd chapter of the 1st book of the Bible, and I quote from the oldest translation of the Bible in existence (The Septuagint) :

 

 

" And God formed the man [of] dust of the earth, and breathed upon his face the breath of life, and the man became a living soul "

- Gen 2:7 source: http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/physis/septuagint-genesis/2.asp

[Guruvani]

 

 

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> " And God formed the man [of] dust of the earth, and breathed upon his face the breath of life, and the man became a living soul "</td></tr></tbody></table>[url="http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/physis/septuagint-genesis/2.asp"]

 

That says that the body became a soul.

That is a very confused concept of the soul.

 

The man doesn't become a soul.

The soul becomes a man.

[Avinash]

The word soul is used in English in various sense. Sometimes we say, "He is a great soul." What we really mean is: -

He is a great person.

"The man became a living soul." simply means that the man became alive. It does not say that soul comes from body.

[mahak]

Yes, the christians may have our debate about falling. See, we share.

 

this falling thing, yes, we fell. The only debate is from whence we fell. But I dont have this problem, because I know the story. The adam and eve story is a paraphrase of all stories of this nature, of all cultures. Srila Prabhupada explains on the cover of the record album, where he tells us that somehow or other, we have forgotten, and this mahamantra is the tool for us to revive our krsna consciousness. End of story, because this cover of the record album is the initiation of the west into Srila Prabhupadas offer to be our guru.

 

Adam and Eve were quite serene and protected, did not know at all of birth death disease or old age, and the threefold miseries did not affect them. Then boom, one of those miseries manifested (the adiatmic/mental one), then they lost their wings and plummetted, now thinking they were the object of their love.

 

Sanjaya, who always is with Krsna, even while on duty with the enemy as his envoy, tells how this happened. The humans did not touch the surface of the earth, they lived on sweet sound. Once, one of them landed on the surface, and tasted honey, then shared, then they all started landing, all got fat, could no longer fly. And their eternality became a severe problem to Lord Brahma, who decided then and there to do away with the entire human species. Lord Siva intervened, and made Lord Brahma give up his anger and stand down. So the anger escaped Lord Brahma, but a being was born, a beautiful girl named DEATH.

 

Sanjaya knows the vedic version.

 

Fall from Goloka? Not in sanjayas story. They fell from the sky, from the realm of siddhis, they fell from a perfect state. Goloka is beyond all these perfect states.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

Adam and Eve had problems with their originality. Eve always had to deal with the ex, Lilith. Their bad son was sent away where he came upon all these other races of beings. So, Id probably grab my surfin togs and leave that island as well, someone goes and messes with my originality lie dat, eh?

[Guruvani]

In the Bible there is first a man.

But, apparently the man has no soul.

So, God blows in his face and gives the man a soul.

 

That is not any proper concept of how the soul takes on a body.

[mahak]

 

 

 

So, we see here the problem for eve. I mean really, how would anyone like the be the second wife, a replacement fore stevie nicks. That adam and his lilith. He even bought her nice duds, what did he ever buy me, tree bark? Pond scum?

 

mahak

 

[mahak]

that aint no soul he blows into the face, bro. And that wasnt god either (see above).

[HerServant]

 

The word soul is used in English in various sense. Sometimes we say, "He is a great soul." What we really mean is: -

He is a great person.

"The man became a living soul." simply means that the man became alive. It does not say that soul comes from body.

 

So what is soul in Vaisnava terms ? A person? or impersonal? If a person, then what makes up a person? Why no memory of previous lives? Because the "person" of the previous life was not a "person" at all?

 

What makes a person a person? I know and you know. A person's true identity is only known in relationship with God. But if you are having a life of imperfect relationship, then in fact you have no memory of relationship with God at all.

 

So I prefer the Christian view .. that Person and Soul go together. You can sit and debate re-incarnation all you like, but you will have to concede that your re-incarnated "person" in a previous life is no person at all if you have no memories of that life.

 

And even if you have a memory of previous lives .. what is your memory .. A memory of what? Your rapt and saturated loving relationship with Krsna? No .. otherwise you would not be here on this planet.

 

Come let's see who is mayavadi when speaking of soul as not person. I want to close my ears when all the technical (impersonal) philosophy starts pouring forth.