14th Descendent of Lord Sri Sri Nityananda Mahaprabhu

[Guruvani]

I don't think that the accusation that ISKCON lives by "the end justifies the means" is at the bottom of why ISKCON has been backsliding for the last 30 years.

I don't know of any big scandals associated with ISKCON in recent years due to the "end justifies the means" concept within ISKCON.

 

I think ISKCON's real issue is the matter of unqualified men assuming the position of guru and acquiring a hoarde of disciples and then falling away.

 

I think the ecclesiastical bureaucracy that the GBC has been building over the years is also the major issue.

 

To say that what is ruining ISKCON is that ISKCON lives by the creedo of "the end justifies the means" is a diversion from the real underlying issues that are holding back ISKCON and the KC movement along with it.

 

I think it is the least of issues that is plaguing ISKCON.

[Kulapavana]

 

I don't think that the accusation that ISKCON lives by "the end justifies the means" is at the bottom of why ISKCON has been backsliding for the last 30 years.

I don't know of any big scandals associated with ISKCON in recent years due to the "end justifies the means" concept within ISKCON.

 

I think ISKCON's real issue is the matter of unqualified men assuming the position of guru and acquiring a hoarde of disciples and then falling away.

 

 

Some of these men knew they are just performing a make-believe show, that they were unqualified for the position, yet they kept the appearances because they believed it was good for the mission, good for their disciples to see them in this grand way. It was simply a variation of the "end justifies the means" approach. Some of them sincerely believed they were doing the right thing - deluding others for the good of their disciples and the movement.

 

To some extent this is still going on, and the appearances are being kept.

[suchandra]

 

Some of these men knew they are just performing a make-believe show, that they were unqualified for the position, yet they kept the appearances because they believed it was good for the mission, good for their disciples to see them in this grand way. It was simply a variation of the "end justifies the means" approach. Some of them sincerely believed they were doing the right thing - deluding others for the good of their disciples and the movement.

 

To some extent this is still going on, and the appearances are being kept.

 

 

 

 

 

At least somehow people have to remember how hard it was for Prabhupada to come to US and that all this endeavour by Prabhupada was something which should be honoured. This attitude will surely please the Lord and what more can be gained? At one point in 1966 Prabhupada even felt like becoming homeless in NY but still he tolerated all iconvenience and simply by his patience and endurance he brought the Holy Name to millions of conditioned souls.

[suchandra]

 

I don't think that ISKCON lives and breathes on the motto of "the end justifies the means".

I don't even think you know what you are talking about.

 

You have found a theme that you use to convince yourself that you know better and have all the answers.

 

There are no easy answers.

 

Disciples of Srila Prabhupada are trying to do the best they can with the hand they have been dealt.

 

Your accusation that the law of ISKCON is "the end justifies the means" is a false accusation.

It's your own misconception.

It's not the founding principle of ISKCON.

 

I don't even know if you can prove that Srila Prabhupada advocated such a principle as some founding principle of ISKCON.

 

You have magnified the theme yourself in your own mind.

 

I was in ISKCON for years and I don't remember any big ISKCON theme of anything goes because "the end justifies the means".

 

You've blown the concept all out of proportion and convinced yourself that such a motto was the principle theme of ISKCON.

 

It was not and it is not.

 

You have created a straw-man argument with this crap and now you are attacking the straw-man as if he is an ISKCON deity.

 

For me and quite some of my godbrothers it became increasingly and inescapably obvious that the movement was simply not fulfilling its own stated primary goal: to create "pure devotees" -- to skillfully and successfully guide serious practitioners to those sublime states of spiritual consciousness elaborately described in the scriptures and endlessly reiterated in the daily lectures.

 

One does, of course, encounter devotees who seem peaceful, content, full of sincere purpose and conviction, high-spirited, effulgent, enthusiastic, and so on. And it is true that most devotees have experienced, at one time or another, uplifting feelings from chanting, seeing the Deities or during harinam. But what of the more developed and sustained spiritual states described by such terms as "bhava" and "prema"? What of the love of Krishna that flows from the depths of one's being, overwhelms the mind and heart, and utterly transforms one into a holy person whose very presence inspires genuine sanctity in others? Is ISKCON actually producing such manifestly Krishna conscious persons - this was questioned repeatedly.

 

To account for this embarrassing lack of pure devotees in ISKCON, one might feel tempted to enact an ISKCON version of "The Emperor's New Clothes": do the best one can to convince oneself and others that certain high-profile leaders are, indeed, pure devotees, and proclaim that those who don't acknowledge their status are either not yet advanced enough for such spiritual discernment or are "envious fools." Or, alternatively, redefine the term "pure devotee" in such a broad, generous manner as to include the greatest number of devotees possible. Somehow this didnt work in the length of time and the facade seemed to crumble intermittently.

In order to compensate this missing genuine spirituality all kind of changes occured and obviously still go on.....

[sambya]

nityananda's descendents actually exist.i have blood relation with one such branch of family and they have a old family chart begining with nityananda and ending in their grandfather written down about hundread years ago.if anyone wants to study the truth why not read some history books of medival bengal(preferably by indian author,for colonial britishers deformed indian history too much)instead of blindly following religious texts?? but its true that the later descendents lost their spiritual levels and started a monopoly business of guruship.thats why they are rejected by modern reformers of vaishnav thought.

[Mahaprabhu]

 

nityananda's descendents actually exist.i have blood relation with one such branch of family and they have a old family chart begining with nityananda and ending in their grandfather written down about hundread years ago.if anyone wants to study the truth why not read some history books of medival bengal(preferably by indian author,for colonial britishers deformed indian history too much)instead of blindly following religious texts?? but its true that the later descendents lost their spiritual levels and started a monopoly business of guruship.thats why they are rejected by modern reformers of vaishnav thought.

 

 

Dear Sambyaji, I am very much curious to know more about these families.....basically I am an ISKCON follower but I want to know more about these families. Can you quote their disciplic succession(Parampara) descending from Lord Nityananda? Is there any book related to this? Kindly post a reply......or you can send these information to my email ID : loveroflordkrishna@............

[sambya]

dear mahaprabhu,

i'll definitely get you their disciplic chart (they have it framed) when i visit the place next(my relatives house that is).as navadwip is quite near to my place and i shall try to get one from the numerous goswami families out there.historically a century or so after the dissapearrence of mahaprabhu the central vaishnav authority got split up in numerous sects and were independently practised by each of such families.but after a few generations most deviated from the original vaishnav path.later tantric and regional influences also severely plagued this movement.in early colonial bengal vaishnav came to meant as half educated,wandering couples in ochre robes begging alms by singing beutiful songs.but things changed with advent of bhaktisiddhanta saraswati and srila prabhupad who restructured the entire school and saved it from extinction.but i suggest not to say of your interest in such things to your iskcon authorities,for in all probalities they would not take them in a very good light.

[Mahaprabhu]

dear mahaprabhu,

i'll definitely get you their disciplic chart (they have it framed) when i visit the place next(my relatives house that is).as navadwip is quite near to my place and i shall try to get one from the numerous goswami families out there.historically a century or so after the dissapearrence of mahaprabhu the central vaishnav authority got split up in numerous sects and were independently practised by each of such families.but after a few generations most deviated from the original vaishnav path.later tantric and regional influences also severely plagued this movement.in early colonial bengal vaishnav came to meant as half educated,wandering couples in ochre robes begging alms by singing beutiful songs.but things changed with advent of bhaktisiddhanta saraswati and srila prabhupad who restructured the entire school and saved it from extinction.but i suggest not to say of your interest in such things to your iskcon authorities,for in all probalities they would not take them in a very good light.

 

Dear Sambyaji, thanks for your reply. Please get their disciplic successsion. Yes our Srila Prabhupada saved whole world itself by propagating Lord Chaitanya's mission to the entire world.

But these Nityananda Vamsa people are they following the Lord Chaitanya's philosophy in a right order? Are they teaching Bhakti given by Lord Chaitanya? Please let me know about it......

Anyway thank you once again....please send me informations to this email ID: loveroflordkrishna@

[indulekhadasi]

Virachandra Gosai had two wives, Srimati and Narayani, but no children. So the Nityaananda Vamsis are related only in an indirect way.

[suchandra]

 

Virachandra Gosai had two wives, Srimati and Narayani, but no children. So the Nityaananda Vamsis are related only in an indirect way.

Good point, "It has been misused in so many ways. In Bengal… Just like they say nityananda-vamsa. Coming from Nityananda. So Nityananda had one son, Virabhadra. But Virabhadra did not marry. So there is no dynasty by semina. By nityananda- vamsa means by disciplic succession. So sometimes extra advantage was taken as nityananda-vamsa. But people have got respect for such thing, dynasty. So not only it is now, from time immemorial, guru, guru’s dynasty… Even in Mohammedan religion there is such sentiment, Mohammed and his dynasty, Hussain, they are taken very respectfully."

Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 1.7.45-46

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

Vṛndāvana, October 5, 1976

[Kyros]

Hello, I am the 8758759695795705975sincetimeimmemorial grandson of Lord Brahma, the direct current link to Lord Visnu.