Lord Shiva is Ultimate

[Arjuna Haridas]

 

Can we have some Vedic interpretations (of this realization) of "Radha"? Not the Gaudiya interpretation of Radha.

On the other hand I feel, that a lot of Vaishnava shcools are not really based on realizations as in yoga and tantra but more in Vedantic philosophy.

The realization is focused more on staunch belief in the particular line of philosophy that the sadhak is following, rather than the resulting realization from

austerity and practice of such a philosophy. I'm don't mean to say here that the vaishnavas don't have realization. Just most sampradayik preachings focus

more on Vedantic understanding.

 

In the list of God positioning posted above 'Krsna' to 'Shiva' on top in most Shaiva philosophies and understanding, where Krsna appears in dwapara yuga as an avatara. And as per Shaiva scriptures Shiva manifests himself into Brahma Vishnu and Mahesh working through his various potencies and shakti Devi.

Thanks.

 

I'm not a Vaishnava (I'm a Shakta), but that's how I believed things when I was a Vaishnava. Vaishnavism is based on their Puranas, as is Shaivism (for some parts). So to find evidence for anything Vaishnava, you would have to look at their sattvika puranas. But, you're right; Vaishnavism has a more dogmatic approach while Shaivism and Shaktism have a more experiential approach (with Shaktism being 99.9% experiential). Sometimes, dogma is good and sometimes experience is good.

[Tantrayoga]

 

do you think so? i think vaishnavas focus heavily on puranas- vishnu and bahagavat purana etc...not as much on vedantic philosophy, if not hardly it all.

vedantic philosophy it is also based on realization and yoga dont you agree?

 

Yes. But by Vedanta I meant was more scriptural discussion and proving points and analysis. Yes Yoga and Vedantic philosophy IS based based on realization. But as many schools of Vedantism discuss these realizations of past sages, and previously realized facts. They do not always base this on their own realizations of these facts and experiences. For example, in Yoga or Tantra, a Guru can't just quote scriptures and be a Guru and guide a disciple through the complexities of sadhna without himself fully achieving siddhi in a particular sadhna. Practical experience and sadhna is more stressed in yog and tantra. One may not be able to simply achieve success by reading books in yogmarg.

[Tantrayoga]

 

I'm not a Vaishnava (I'm a Shakta), but that's how I believed things when I was a Vaishnava. Vaishnavism is based on their Puranas, as is Shaivism (for some parts). So to find evidence for anything Vaishnava, you would have to look at their sattvika puranas. But, you're right; Vaishnavism has a more dogmatic approach while Shaivism and Shaktism have a more experiential approach (with Shaktism being 99.9% experiential). Sometimes, dogma is good and sometimes experience is good.

 

I do agree with you Arjuna Haridas ji.

[princegoutham]

 

this is not true. hindus have always regarded vishnu, shiva as one as it is written in the scriptures.

 

i am sure there were hindus that saw vishnu, shiva as different gods but those were ones that did not read the scriptures or not well versed in them.

 

vishnu is not fake, vishnu is mentioned in the vedas.

 

hindus today are basing their beliefs off of vedic/vedantic aspect which beliefs god is one. while the hindus that worship many gods and believe in different gods are basing their belief off of puranic/mythology aspect which was very popular during the gupta era.

 

so hindus today who believe god is one etc... are actually following the older version of hinduism then the puranic hindus.

 

i feel that the puranas were meant to be for morals but people worship the gods in there.

 

i do agree that vaishnavas have made vishnu/krishna very christian like but the bhagavad gita was written before the bible. krishna was a diety who was originally associated with the upanishadic philosophy and later on he became very messiah like. but many say that jesus is a copy cat of krishna. also there were a lot of other saviour types who had similar characteristics as jesus etc....

 

 

krishna and jesus are not the same though, there lies are very different from each other except for some similarities.

 

jesus never came to india. there is not even any evidence that he existed according to many. plus krishna is mentioned in ancient writings that date back to 4bc before any supposed jesus.

 

Hello Brothers

 

Hinduism is not a single religion

its the collection of Saivism,Shaktismn,Vaishnavism,Smartism is known today as Hinduism

But All four believe in karma and reincarnation and in a Supreme Being who is both form and pervades form, who creates, sustains and destroys the universe only to create it again in unending cycles. They strongly declare the validity and importance of temple worship, in the three worlds of existence and the myriad Gods and devas residing in them. They concur that there is no intrinsic evil, that the cosmos is created out of God and is permeated by Him. They each believe in maya (though their definitions differ somewhat), and in the liberation of the soul from rebirth, called moksha, as the goal of human existence. They believe in dharma and in ahimsa, noninjury, and in the need for a satguru to lead the soul toward Self Realization. They wear the sacred marks, tilaka, on their foreheads as sacred symbols, though each wears a distinct mark. Finally, they prefer cremation of the body upon death, believing that the soul will inhabit another body in the next life. While Hinduism has many sacred scriptures, all sects ascribe the highest authority to the Vedas and Agamas, though their Agamas differ somewhat

 

Eg-like Christianity-(30+ CE) Christianity is divided into three main sects: Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Protestant. Among Protestants there are over 20,000 denomin-ations.

Eastern Orthodox-(1054 CE),Lutheran -Martin Luther (1517),Anglican -Henry VIII (1534),Methodist -John Wesley (1739)

Worldwide Church of God -Herbert Armstrong (1933),Baptist John Smyth (1609),Presbyterian -John Knox (1625),Quakers -George Fox (1647),Mormon Joseph Smith (1830) to sum in word they are called Christianity

 

The Ultimate Truth

 

Saivism: There are no divine earthly incarnations of the Supreme Being.

 

God Siva is one with the soul. The soul must realize this advaitic (monistic) Truth by God Siva's grace

 

With bhakti as a base, emphasis is placed on sadhana, tapas (austerity) and yoga. Ascetic.

 

texts-Vedas, Saiva Agamas and Saiva Puranas

 

Geographically widespread, strongest in South and North India, Nepal and Sri Lanka.

 

Time less Truth to be accepted

 

Saivism is ancient, truly ageless, for it has no beginning. It is the precursor of the many-faceted religion now termed Hinduism. Scholars trace the roots of Siva worship back more than 8,000 years to the advanced Indus Valley civilization. But sacred writings tell us there never was a time when Saivism did not exist

 

It provides knowledge of man's evolution from God and back to God, of the soul's unfoldment and awakening guided by enlightened sages. Like all the sects, its majority are devout families, headed by hundreds of orders of swamis and sadhus who follow the fiery, world-renouncing path to moksha.

 

 

The Vedas state, "By knowing Siva, the Auspicious One who is hidden in all things, exceedingly fine, like film arising from clarified butter, the One embracer of the universe by realizing God, one is released from all fetters." Aum Namah Sivaya

 

The Cosmic Dance of Shiva.

God and his creation are One. Yet God hides himself from his creation to give himself the joy of discovering God. God is both Creator and the Created. This is also known as the Wisdom of Balance. The Uncreated God and The Created God are One, yet the creation is attached to the grand illusion of separateness. Whenever God's creation discovers God, God discovers himself all over again. God delights in the dance of hiding and discovering his glory. The Cosmic Dance of Shiva.

 

Your life is your part in this awesome Cosmic Dance. Your birth begins with your God Consciousness hid from you. If you have not discovered your unlimited potential in this life you will die, and your soul will go to the unseen state awaiting its chance for another birth. This is the gem of knowledge known as Reincarnation.

 

About Vaishnavism

 

Vaishnavism is also an ancient Hindu sect centering on the worship of Lord Vishnu and His incarnations, especially Krishna and Rama. Largely dualistic, profoundly devotional, it is rich in saints, temples and scriptures. Aum.

 

The worship of Vishnu, meaning "pervader, " dates back to Vedic times. The Pancharatra and Bhagavata sects were popular prior to 300 bce.

 

The Bhagavad Gita states, "On those who meditate on Me and worship with undivided heart, I confer attainment of what they have not, and preserve what they have." Aum Namo Narayanaya.

 

But There is no denial of incarnations and 10 avatars of Lord Vishnu..... But,,,,

 

Proof that Lord Shiva Was there in all yugas and was worshipped by all God and Goddess.There are many instances

 

He was worshipped by lord Rama and Ravana also as he was the only God and energy of good as well as evil,He was a Kind Father who granted all the wishes of the children's who pray to him he never see if his children's intentions but if they pray to him he grants them without thinking he never judges you by you mistakes or past things every time you go to him he you are a New person coming to him with your problems to be solved.

 

Because of his innocence's he is called Bhole nath,

 

But also Notice that when he was around on Earth he did not meet any avatars or none existed only in Heavens his stories with Brahma and Vishnu are mentioned.

 

Here are few incidents mentioned in Holy books about Lord Shiva documented and of his appearances

 

Lord shiva takes the shape of (Lingam) Controls the universe and all the Gods

 

 

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why the lingam is believed to be one of the most potent emblems in Hindu ideals.

 

It all started with Brahma and Vishnu, who were arguing over their relative supremacy. Their vain arguments were interrupted by a superluminous glow from a strange and blazing pillar, its shape reminiscent of the linga. Both of them sped towards this indescribable flaming light, which grew before their eyes into infinity, piercing the earth and extending through the heavens. Overwhelmed and terrified by the unfathomable vision, the two gods decided to seek the beginning and end of this burning immensity. Brahma taking the form of a swan flew upwards, and Vishnu dove down acquiring the shape of a boar. Both of the gods however, could not fathom the extent of this fiery column at either end, and returned exhausted and bewildered to the level they had started from. At that moment, the central part of the pillar split open and Shiva revealed himself in his full glory. Overawed, both Brahma and Vishnu bowed before him. Thunderous laughter, or the sound of AUM, issued from the pillar, filling the sky.

 

Brahma's head was Ripped off By lord shiva

<HR style="COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->once, Brahma and Vishnu were discussing who was the supreme god and then when they came to know from Veda that Shiva is the supreme being, Brahma ignored and spoke bad about Shiva. He got angry and cut off Brahma's head that spoke ill of him, leaving Brahma with four heads instead of five.Shiva is the creator of Dance and of the first 16 rythemic syllabus ever uttered, the Sanskrit language was born. Dance of anger is known as Tandav Nritya, joy as Ananda nritya. Thus, Shiva is also known as Natraja, lord of dance and it is said that on 13th day of each bright lunar fortnight of Hindu calendar, after 6 in the evening, falls a sacred hour called Pradosha and if you worship this time than one gets powers of Universe. It is believed that all Gods gather to witness the dance of Natraja, Shiva.There are around 30 million Linga in temples in India, famous one formed of Ice at Amarnath, Somnath in Gujarat and it is said Shiva sleeps in all Lingas in Chaturmasya and so if one worships the Shivlinga this time, than it is very auspicious. Going for Pilgrimage to all 12 Jyotirlinga means one washes away the sins of last seven births and also reciting the mantras purifies the soul and can attain peacefulness

Lord Krishna's advice to Arjuna

 

 

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After hearing about the Pandav's exile, Krishna goes to visit them. He advises the Pandavs to prepare for war and tells Arjun to do penance to obtain divine weapons. Arjun does penance and eventually pleases Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva bestows him with the divine Pasupata weapon and advises him to obtain other weapons in Indralok. Rishi Duruvasa visits Hastinapur. In an attempt to humiliate the Pandavs, Duryodhan requests that the sage visit tha Pandavs as well. Rishi Duruvasa promises to do so

 

 

 

Lord shiva grants Draupadi her desired wish

 

 

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When Sage Vyasa visits the family, he explains to Draupadi that her unique position as the wife of five brothers results from a certain incident in her previous birth. She had in that lifetime prayed to Lord Shiva to grant her a husband with five desired qualities. Lord Shiva, pleased with her devotion, tells her that it is very difficult to get a husband with all five qualities that she desired. But she sticks to her ground and asks for the same. Then Lord Shiva grants her wish saying that she would get the same in her next birth. Hence she gets married to five brothers each who represents a given quality.

 

The Sad Truth

 

The Ancient brahims Abolished the Savism concept which was practised in India and that time India was in peak of its glory they created caste system according to their occupation and classified according to their jobs which they do in daily life created upper and lower caste and ruled them and the kings which was major draw back in Hindu society which created chance and opportunities from other cultures to easily enter India and showcase our drawback and spread new religion In India The Mother of all religions which Once taught the world the art of war,science ,medicine dance Martial arts, many More is now stands divided

"Mankind ought to be taught that religions are but the varied expressions of THE RELIGION, which is Oneness, so that each may choose the path that suits him best." - Swami Vivekananda)the saivism concept

 

Om Nama shivya

 

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[princegoutham]

Saivism is the world's oldest religion. Worshiping God Siva, the compassionate One, it stresses potent disciplines, high philosophy, the guru's centrality and bhakti-raja- siddha yoga leading to oneness with Siva within. Aum.

Saivism is ancient, truly ageless, for it has no beginning. It is the precursor of the many-faceted religion now termed Hinduism. Scholars trace the roots of Siva worship back more than 8,000 years to the advanced Indus Valley civilization. But sacred writings tell us there never was a time when Saivism did not exist.Saivism's grandeur and beauty are found in a practical culture, an enlightened view of man's place in the universe and a profound system of temple mysticism and siddha yoga. It provides knowledge of man's evolution from God and back to God, of the soul's unfoldment and awakening guided by enlightened sages. Like all the sects, its majority are devout families, headed by hundreds of orders of swamis and sadhus who follow the fiery, world-renouncing path to moksha. The Vedas state, "By knowing Siva, the Auspicious One who is hidden in all things, exceedingly fine, like film arising from clarified butter, the One embracer of the universe--by realizing God, one is released from all fetters." Aum Namah Sivaya.

 

God Shiva is known by various names. One of his names is Bholenath, which means the innocent God. Shiva as Rudra is regarded as the destroyer of evil and sorrow. Shiva as Shankara is known as the doer of good. Lord Shiva has "Trinetra" (divine vision). He is also known as "Nilakantha" (blue necked). This is because of the fact that he consumed the poison 'Halahala' to save the world from destruction. Lord Shiva as Nataraja represents the Divine Cosmic Dancer. Shiva is also known as Ardh narishvara, which symbolises both man and woman.

 

 

Even though he represents destruction, Lord Shiva is viewed as a positive force (the Destroyer of Evil). According to Shaivism, Shiva is not merely a destroyer but performs five functions :

• Creator Preserver
  
• Destroyer
  
• Hiding the sins
  
• Blessing

Whatever you see, see as Shiva and do not be distressed, O mind! Those who are free from agitation and who the senses five control will surely win the bliss of Shiva. The path prescribed by your religion you should always tread, and live in changeless, silent contemplation. Whatever you see, see as Shiva.

 

Natchintanai, "Whatever You See..." NT, 68

 

Shiva is Maha Kal the Lord of All Lords Even Lord Rama,Krishna,and Vishnu Worshipped Lord Shiva He is Maha Yogi,he is Not Sangara Priya You Need Not decorate Him with jewels and materialistic ornaments or Need not bring him any offerings that's why they say Brahma,Vishnu and SADA Shiv,because his existence is time less age less,see Ramayana,mahabartha you will find pandavayas ,kauravyas all worshipping lords Shiva, all the lords and Demons of 3 lokas worshipped him to get their desired boons,even the jungle tribes in remote places in sri Lanka,thai land,Malaysia and unknown islands believe and worship him its only mind heart and soul,No worly rituals and mantras to perform to reach him.He is Dev adi dev Maha dev he never took any avatars because there is one God Only demi gods comes to Restore with the blessing of Ultimate god,That's why in all Vishnu ,Krishna etc avatars The lords worshipped Mahadev lord Shiva.We don't preach we only meditate and Practice SHIVA-5 words,the Master of 5 elements

 

Water - Thiruvanaikoil

Air - Kalahasti

Fire - Thiruvannamalai

Space - Chidambaram

Earth - Kanchipuram or Thiruvarur.

 

Hope your doubts are Cleared i am not preaching of Shiva my concept is He is the Main Lord and god the Most ancient Lord worshipped by Devatas,rashis,munis ,and Sages, Some early sect of Brahims didn't like Shiva Concept of Equal rights to women,and not to allow them the privilege of Teaching religion,They found New sects of their own according to their own connivance and brought, sati system,and declared that women to only serve their husband ,

 

Do you Know The concept of Ardha Nareshwara.Or ardhanggini (lord Shiva shown as Half male and Half female)

 

(1) In the cosmic scheme man represents Purusha (the Person, Spirit) and woman Prakriti (Nature, primal Matter), both of whom unite to keep the world going. So goes the Vedic verse: ‘I am He, you are She; I am song, you are verse; I am heaven, you are earth. We two shall here together dwell becoming parents of children.’

 

This just one single point not in depth

 

The Ancient brahims Abolished the Savism concept which was practised in India and that time India was in peak of its glory they created caste system according to their occupation and classified according to their jobs which they do in daily life created upper and lower caste and ruled them and the kings which was major draw back in Hindu society which created chance and opportunities from other cultures to easily enter India and showcase our drawback and spread new religion In India The Mother of all religions which Once taught the world the art of war,science ,medicine dance Martial arts, many More is now stands divided

 

"Mankind ought to be taught that religions are but the varied expressions of THE RELIGION, which is Oneness, so that each may choose the path that suits him best." - Swami Vivekananda)the saivism concept

 

Om Nama shivya

[bhaktajan]

This Shiva is God Stuff is Bogus.

 

Lord Shiva is the Brother of the Kumaras & Narada etc.

 

When Lord Brahma passes away --so will all pass away by merging back into MAhaVisnu's Breathing.

 

The Hiarchy of the Descendants of Lord Brahma Maha-pita-ma [Great Grand Father] of the Celestial "Demi-gods" is known.

 

Shiva is Brahma's Son.

 

Shiva & Brahma are Jiva-atmas.

Visnu is a 'plenary expansion' of God in the Material Worlds.

 

But don't let me dissuade you from pursuing your passion.

 

Your evident devotion will bring you to the service of Mahesh's other more-seasoned servants in due time.

 

Since Lord Shiva is a Vaishnava without equal then we must invoke his protection from maya & her illusory spells and her servants too.

 

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[hari.sdkm]

 

As Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma we had a kind of trimurty in the old times in Europe : Esus, Taranis and Teutates ; 3 major "celtic" gods ruling before the roman and greek civilization took place or better say the Christian civilization. There also where a lot of greek gods before christianity came. And also what about the Egyptian "trimurty" Isis, Osiris and Anubis.

 

I believe that in the old times there were many gods and demi gods all around the world. Then came Christianity which perturbated things maybe, and war religions in the 16th century... I believe that Vishnu is a product of christianity in modern Hinduism (many avatar going on a linear time, from Matsya the fish who saved Jonas in the bible etc...). Hinduism now is based on love and worship of only one god Baghwan. Because you Indians think that Shiva or Vishnu are proceding from one god (Bagwan : they are incarnations of Baghwan) and that Dharma is ruling I think.

Well, I also think Shiva is more ultimate or closer to truth because I think that some coins with the head of Shiva were dicovered in the ancient city of Mohendjodaro in Pakistan or around the Indus Valley. I think Vishnu is fake. Or not fake, but a god with less archeological evidence and issued from the Messiah concept -saver of the world-.

 

The old greek writers (who were not famous because not recognized by Rome and Cotholic empire) like Iamboulos etc... wrote about the greek gods at that time. Iamboulos says that they were kings, from flesh like you and me, ruling at a very old time ; they were fighters, very powerful humans.

 

Well, all this drive me to a question if I may ask in this topic : Could Krishna be Christ-na or something like that... This is something I am wondering as it is said per rumors that Jesus Christ came to India... Maybe Krishna and Christ is the same person... well, I find this similarity in names very weird...

 

Thank you for your attention, hoping not to put the web on fire and hoping to get some response...

 

Regards,

 

Eternity

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what is this? full of rubbish story and noob idea vishnu is anient "adi narayana" Christian civilization just came in 2000 year before but narayana is creater of every thing including brahma and shiva and universe

when u consider about greek they talk about only theyvargal indra ,varna and mdharmaraj

if u no about hinduism then talk other wise dont interfer in it

 

regards

 

S.D.Krishnamurthy