How Do You Preach?

[suchandra]

apane aca re keha, na kare pracara

pracara karena keha, na karena acara

 

"Some behave very well but do not preach the cult of Krishna consciousness, whereas others preach but do not behave properly."

(Srila Sanatana Goswami - 1488-1558 CE)

 

Due to present ISKCON insisting upon not to introduce a global daivi-varnashram movement but maintain an artificial so called "brahminical temple structure", tens of thousands of devotees live now outside of a spiritual society in all kind of different situations and more or less not outwardly to be recognized as Vaishnavas, working in karmi companies.

 

Still, preaching is not limited to those wearing the dress of a Vaishnava and claiming to be bonafide monks.

How do you preach? My approach is to some way or other point out that everything on the bodily platform is temporary, the bodily concept of life ends when we die, but there's something within us that says we don't want to die. At this point Bhagavad-gita/Vedas says, yes, awaken your soul and come to the level of identifying with eternal life, give up identifying with what will end when this body ends.

Or do you prepare prasadam and distribute it to your fellow-workers? What kind of prasadam do you prepare?

 

Prabhupada: "Fortunately, even at our first meeting, His Divine Grace advised me to preach the cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in English in the western countries...I was...convinced that Sri Caitanya Mahprabhu's message is the only panacea for suffering humanity. I was also convinced that the message of Lord Caitanya was then in the hands of a very expert devotee and that surely His message would spread all over the world.... I took his words very seriously and was always thinking of how to execute his order....

 

If there is any credit for my activities of translating, it is all due to His Divine Grace.... I am confident that he is very pleased by this work of translation. He was very fond of seeing many books published to spread the Krishna consciousness movement. Therefore our Society, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness was formed to execute the order of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur...

 

On this occasion, therefore, I request my disciple who are determined to help me in this work to continue their co-operation fully, so that philosophers, scholars, religionists, and people in general all over the world will benefit by reading our transcendental literatures such as Srimad Bhagavatam and Sri Caitanya Caritamrta." (Cc Concluding words)

[theist]

I don't "preach".That is not my position from the platforrm where I presently stand. "Edxample is better than precept". In fact I have come to dislike the word preach because of the connotations that word has come to carry in people's minds. It sounds more like talking at someone from a superior place. Not what the word literally means undoubtly but that is what is general understood to be the meaning.

 

I do talk to people and when I do I always work God consciousness into the conversation but I let it come more naturally. This is a weak position I know but until example is set it is all I have.

[Guruvani]

I don't like the word preach either.

Like the Christians sometimes say "sharing" is a better concept for my own use.

Even then, I don't really do much sharing.

I do answer any questions that come my way, but because I am so private about my spiritual side that I rarely get the chance.

 

I did "convert" one person once when I lived in Santa Cruz.

He had never been to a temple or heard about Hare Krishna.

I shared with him what I knew and gave him a BG and he took to it quite enthusiastically.

Eventually he and his wife separated and divorced over it because she was a Christian and he was fanatic about Krishna.

 

I would say he was my best success story in my sharing of KC outside of ISKCON.

 

The idea of preaching conjures up an image of somebody on a soapbox preaching down to others.

Preaching, fire and brimstone, the end of the world, Jesus is coming..... they all go together.

So, I don't really care for the term "preaching".

It carries a connotation of one person feeling himself all high and holy as he beats people over the head with his Bible.

High and holy certain doesn't describe me, so I guess I am not a good candidate to be a preacher man.

 

If we humbly discuss toe to toe and one on one with a person what we know about Krishna I don't like to call that preaching.

I like to call that sharing.

 

Getting up on the big seat and pontificating to the crowd is not my style.

I am not a preacher.

[suchandra]

Sorry for choosing the term "preaching", which is obviously afflicted with kind of nightmarish remembrance for some. Theist prabhu and Guruvani prabhu, you made some 16,000 posts at audarya-fellowship which you consider of course not as "preaching", but what else is it? Sharing your thoughts with other Vaishnavas in a non-preaching way? Could also be that those who're real preachers and write some 16,000 posts would never admit that they're preachers? This is also confirmed by sastric evidence:

 

Prabhupada: "So Prahlada Maharaja is Vaisnava. Vaisnava qualification is

 

trnad api sunicena

taror api sahisnuna

amanina manadena

kirtaniyah sada harih

 

Vaisnava is always humble, meek and humble. That is Vaisnava. Vaisnava is powerful, but still he is very meek and humble."

(ACBSP, Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.9.8 Mayapur, February 28, 1977)

[sanatan]

Preaching and Vaisnava relationships, as practiced by myself:

 

One-on-one unfoldment of conversation; sharing thoughts, history, scripture, and realizations with the receptive and mutually-respectful, whatever their spiritual training and background. Friendships often develop from these relationships.

 

Respect for anyone who is on a progressive spiritual path, and following sincerely...Mayavadi yogi, Christian,...whatever.

 

Outright avoidance of the inimical, offensive, and outright demoniac. Been there, done that, it doesn't work, period.

 

Patient and appreciative tolerance of the very young and very enthusiastic, who, though sincere, may lack somewhat in social graces or not be discriminating in their choice of audience. Friendships develop here as well.

 

A polite and quick exit from conversations with the downtalkers and serial quoters, usually around my age and senior in terms of external qualifications.

 

Contributions of money and service to worthy Vaisnava outreach programs and projects.

 

I have to fight my material conditioning and ingrown attitudes every day, but am becoming more successful in seeing people just as people...hopefully a beginning step towards seeing Krishna everywhere.

[theist]

 

Sorry for choosing the term "preaching", which is obviously afflicted with kind of nightmarish remembrance for some. Theist prabhu and Guruvani prabhu, you made some 16,000 posts at audarya-fellowship which you consider of course not as "preaching", but what else is it? Sharing your thoughts with other Vaishnavas in a non-preaching way? Could also be that those who're real preachers and write some 16,000 posts would never admit that they're preachers? This is also confirmed by sastric evidence:

 

Prabhupada: "So Prahlada Maharaja is Vaisnava. Vaisnava qualification is

 

trnad api sunicena

taror api sahisnuna

amanina manadena

kirtaniyah sada harih

 

Vaisnava is always humble, meek and humble. That is Vaisnava. Vaisnava is powerful, but still he is very meek and humble."

(ACBSP, Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.9.8 Mayapur, February 28, 1977)

 

That may be true for the real Vaisnava but I have other motives that are much more mixed for making my posts. I have very self interested reasons.

 

When I think of preaching i think of something that is cared out under the power of Krsna through His representative and then expanded through his sincere disciples. So I do hold the word in high esteem. But if I try and imitate that from my level I will accomplish nothing positive and just be a disturbance. IOW's preaching as I see it is a whole life endeavor that culminates in speaking the Word of God out of a genuine love and desire to help others come to the Lord.

 

It is like that Old Testament verse, "Blessed if he that comes in the Name of Lord.Name" in the Bible is most often a translation of a word that means "nature of". We cannot separate the Name of God from the nature of God for God is His name and His name is Himself, the same transcendental substance. So this means suddha-bhakta is the real preacher, for all others come in their own name or a shadow of the true name and with mixed agendas. So in this way preacher for me is reserved for the suddha-bhakta and by extension his sincere disciples that are acting under his nature and direction with their own personal motives eliminated or close to it.

 

I am out for my own good. I am not trying to sound humble just factual. By Prabhupada's grace I have come to theorhetically understand that I am not the body. But I have no genuine developed taste for spiritual life yet, although I am fascinated to hear and talk about Krsna consciousness on a certain level. So I come here for that. The alternative for me is to become completely swallowed by maya for which I do have a taste for. A most tenuous position. I am deathly afraid of forgeting Krsna completely and cyber association fits my mentality as a hermit very well so Audarya Fellowship has been a real welcome and important place in my life. This is one reason for all my posts. BTW 11,000 is just under the theist label. There were several others before that which I view as past incarnations. :-) that also racked up big numbers.

 

Another reason is I am a lonely person otherwise. I get along great with people I meet everyday but cannot establish any depth of relationship for reasons known to all of us. Here people remind me of Krsna and there is no need to fit into an certain mold or group mind pattern. Ever notice how there is never any pressure from JNdas and his helpers to proclaim allegiance to Bhaktivedanta Ashrama or himself? Not one time have I ever got a hint of that in the 7 years or so I have haunted these boards. think about that for a minute. That is no small thing.

 

I don't fit well into any devotee groups, Iskcon, Ritvik, NM's, BR Sridhar Maharaja's or any other's and certainly not other named religions and so I prefer a certain distance from all groups.

 

Yet another reason and a big one is that investigating the questions that and subjects that arise here keep me in Srila Prabhupada's books searching for answers so I use my time here as a study aid.

 

When we learn something about Krsna consciousness I find it imperative to share it with someone right away and by sharing KC I feel I am moving towards pleasing Krsna and his devotees in some way. I believe that Krsna is giving His truths to us not just as individuals but as simulatanously individuals and the others we are to share it with. One and different. if we try to hold onto every little bit of knowledge for ourselves I believe we "damn" the flow of the transcendental stream. We lose the oneness. This is another way of looking at the phrase "to be damned". This is real damnation from God. It is self imposed however. We build the damn that cuts us off. for if we won't share what Krsna has shared with us how can we expect Him to continue to share more or even keep what we have? Receiving from the Lord and giving what we received to others is really just one continous action. So at my platform I want to practice this. This is my sadhana and keeps me somewhat in the game so to speak. At least off the street and out of serious trouble.

 

I tend to be introspective by nature and this forum is perfect for that because if there is something negative in ourselves that we are blind to someone here will be sure to point that out in short order. This is hard to take sometimes but is benefical to spiritual growth. What I cannot tolerate is a group of a**kissers who suck up to each other all day with endless sweet words and no honest talk. Oh god, I just can't stand that c**p.

 

So many other benefits and personal reasons I have for 11,000 posts but none have yet to rise to the level of real preaching, but hey, practice makes perfect right?

[theist]

 

Preaching and Vaisnava relationships, as practiced by myself:

 

One-on-one unfoldment of conversation; sharing thoughts, history, scripture, and realizations with the receptive and mutually-respectful, whatever their spiritual training and background. Friendships often develop from these relationships.

 

Respect for anyone who is on a progressive spiritual path, and following sincerely...Mayavadi yogi, Christian,...whatever.

 

Outright avoidance of the inimical, offensive, and outright demoniac. Been there, done that, it doesn't work, period.

 

Patient and appreciative tolerance of the very young and very enthusiastic, who, though sincere, may lack somewhat in social graces or not be discriminating in their choice of audience. Friendships develop here as well.

 

A polite and quick exit from conversations with the downtalkers and serial quoters, usually around my age and senior in terms of external qualifications.

 

Contributions of money and service to worthy Vaisnava outreach programs and projects.

 

I have to fight my material conditioning and ingrown attitudes every day, but am becoming more successful in seeing people just as people...hopefully a beginning step towards seeing Krishna everywhere.

 

[AncientMariner]

 

That may be true for the real Vaisnava but I have other motives that are much more mixed for making my posts. I have very self interested reasons.

 

When I think of preaching i think of something that is cared out under the power of Krsna through His representative and then expanded through his sincere disciples. So I do hold the word in high esteem. But if I try and imitate that from my level I will accomplish nothing positive and just be a disturbance. IOW's preaching as I see it is a whole life endeavor that culminates in speaking the Word of God out of a genuine love and desire to help others come to the Lord.

 

It is like that Old Testament verse, "Blessed if he that comes in the Name of Lord.Name" in the Bible is most often a translation of a word that means "nature of". We cannot separate the Name of God from the nature of God for God is His name and His name is Himself, the same transcendental substance. So this means suddha-bhakta is the real preacher, for all others come in their own name or a shadow of the true name and with mixed agendas. So in this way preacher for me is reserved for the suddha-bhakta and by extension his sincere disciples that are acting under his nature and direction with their own personal motives eliminated or close to it.

 

I am out for my own good. I am not trying to sound humble just factual. By Prabhupada's grace I have come to theorhetically understand that I am not the body. But I have no genuine developed taste for spiritual life yet, although I am fascinated to hear and talk about Krsna consciousness on a certain level. So I come here for that. The alternative for me is to become completely swallowed by maya for which I do have a taste for. A most tenuous position. I am deathly afraid of forgeting Krsna completely and cyber association fits my mentality as a hermit very well so Audarya Fellowship has been a real welcome and important place in my life. This is one reason for all my posts. BTW 11,000 is just under the theist label. There were several others before that which I view as past incarnations. :-) that also racked up big numbers.

 

Another reason is I am a lonely person otherwise. I get along great with people I meet everyday but cannot establish any depth of relationship for reasons known to all of us. Here people remind me of Krsna and there is no need to fit into an certain mold or group mind pattern. Ever notice how there is never any pressure from JNdas and his helpers to proclaim allegiance to Bhaktivedanta Ashrama or himself? Not one time have I ever got a hint of that in the 7 years or so I have haunted these boards. think about that for a minute. That is no small thing.

 

I don't fit well into any devotee groups, Iskcon, Ritvik, NM's, BR Sridhar Maharaja's or any other's and certainly not other named religions and so I prefer a certain distance from all groups.

 

Yet another reason and a big one is that investigating the questions that and subjects that arise here keep me in Srila Prabhupada's books searching for answers so I use my time here as a study aid.

 

When we learn something about Krsna consciousness I find it imperative to share it with someone right away and by sharing KC I feel I am moving towards pleasing Krsna and his devotees in some way. I believe that Krsna is giving His truths to us not just as individuals but as simulatanously individuals and the others we are to share it with. One and different. if we try to hold onto every little bit of knowledge for ourselves I believe we "damn" the flow of the transcendental stream. We lose the oneness. This is another way of looking at the phrase "to be damned". This is real damnation from God. It is self imposed however. We build the damn that cuts us off. for if we won't share what Krsna has shared with us how can we expect Him to continue to share more or even keep what we have? Receiving from the Lord and giving what we received to others is really just one continous action. So at my platform I want to practice this. This is my sadhana and keeps me somewhat in the game so to speak. At least off the street and out of serious trouble.

 

I tend to be introspective by nature and this forum is perfect for that because if there is something negative in ourselves that we are blind to someone here will be sure to point that out in short order. This is hard to take sometimes but is benefical to spiritual growth. What I cannot tolerate is a group of a**kissers who suck up to each other all day with endless sweet words and no honest talk. Oh god, I just can't stand that c**p.

 

So many other benefits and personal reasons I have for 11,000 posts but none have yet to rise to the level of real preaching, but hey, practice makes perfect right?

 

Well even if you percieve yourself as self-motivated in your pursuit of Krsna Consciousness at least you are honest about it and I think it is safe to say we have all come to appreciate your depth of knowledge and your honesty.

[sanatan]

 

 

Ideals such as stated get lost in day-to-day life with those closest.

 

I was out with my wife yesterday, doing the usual saturday kinds of things and going all the places she wanted. I've gotten much better in recent years about being patient with her throughout, but yesterday descended into unwarranted crankiness and made the last part of the outing kind of miserable for her.

 

One of our stops was the temple gift shop, where I bought a book and she looked for some project beads.

 

Upon arriving home, she asked me what book I had bought. It was Vaisnava Compassion by Satsvarupa Maharaja.

 

She somewhat disgustedly told me she had never seen anyone so expert as me at "talking out of both sides of his mouth". I had to agree.

 

Everything ended up fine; we had a good laugh about it later, but there was a serious lesson there also.

[gHari]

Preacher man --- I think Theist's angle is from that of a fellow seeker.

 

I think maybe I tend to do it as a friend out in the outlands --- or as a standup comedian. People baulk if you suppose you know something.

[theist]

 

Preacher man --- I think Theist's angle is from that of a fellow seeker.

 

As is often the case gHari manages to capture it all in one sentence. Now if you would have posted that first you could have saved me 1/2 hr. of playing with words.

[gHari]

Theist summed up perfectly our position in this godless world: "cannot establish any depth of relationship for reasons known to all of us".

 

Amen brother. And really, could we stomach the prajalpa more than a few minutes anyway?

[AncientMariner]

 

Preacher man --- I think Theist's angle is from that of a fellow seeker.

 

I think maybe I tend to do it as a friend out in the outlands --- or as a standup comedian. People baulk if you suppose you know something.

 

 

That is what I like so much about Lord Rsabhadeva and Jada Bharata. They appeared to the world as foolish madmen but in reality they were the smartest people in the world at the time. That whole concept is really cool in my opinion.

[cbrahma]

And what methods can be used. The temple devotees seem only to recognize book distribution as a truly valid form of preaching. That those who do not 'preach' in this sense are kanistha. Yet when they return to the temple they basically ignore those very people for whom the books are meant - and don't know how to act. Anyone who is not in their aristrocracy is looked down upon. This is preaching? This is madhyama?

[mahak]

Well, here is what maybe I reaqlly wanted to gab about when I did the "authority of discussion" thread. It does come down to style, doncha think?

 

Does Prabhupada want as his representatives (which is what a disciple is) mere tape recorders, like the moonies spouting off memorized lines, are we like the disco group ABBA, unable to speak english, yet making millions for their lively english lyrics sung to perfection?

 

Preaching (I use this word without any connetation, it is merely being engaged in the samkirtana movement) is like Prasadam. We taste, then distribute. Only on ekadasi and fast days do we fail to take prasadam prior to distributing, and there is no preaching if one has nothing to preach. But we hear harinam, we chant harinam.

 

Those who follow Srila Prabhupada follow a particular STYLE of Vaisnava, this style is called gosthianandi. We are engaged in public performance of samkirtana, following our founder Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. His mission is submission to His Guru Maharaja, Srila Iswara Puri, that told him not to waste time on anything other than hearing and chanting harinama.

 

There are other styles, never discredited by the vaisnava acaryas. The bhajananandi, for instance, is fully absorbed in harinama as well, but is rather disfunctional in the external world. Suck pure devotees do not preach at all, but they are no less vaisnavas. Srila Prabhupada does not object, but he is leading his disciples in the other style, public performance, not as tape recorders left on the streets of every town village, but live personalities of all walks of life, full of differences, yet unified in the cause of helping Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga in their gosthianandi movement.

 

So, is this a thread to discuss particular styles? Let me know, then Ill tell yall some of the tricks I have tried to employ and ones Im thinkin about? The title alone indicates that is the intent of this thread.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa