Prabhupada says Moon is closest Planet

[mahak]

The wind, brah. Lookit all dem kalua pits. di kahuna knew suchandra was gonna take a picture, so he put all di fiyehs out.

 

Seriously, prabhupada teaches we need moon eyes to see the moon. All we can see with these eyes are things of earth, so we see on the moon that which is visible to us on earth, rocks, craters. No soma, no varuni, no goddesses, apsaras, siddhas. Doesnt mean they arent there.

[theist]

 

The wind, brah. Lookit all dem kalua pits. di kahuna knew suchandra was gonna take a picture, so he put all di fiyehs out.

 

Seriously, prabhupada teaches we need moon eyes to see the moon. All we can see with these eyes are things of earth, so we see on the moon that which is visible to us on earth, rocks, craters. No soma, no varuni, no goddesses, apsaras, siddhas. Doesnt mean they arent there.

 

That is your speculation mahak. We see the light coming off (from) the moon. Prabhupada tried to account for the statements in the Bhagavatam that the moon is self illuminating so he proposed small fires and wrote that idea in his purports. So he is not talking about some subtle fires.

 

Considering the past few posts from you and guruvani it ius upon you guys to account for the lack of fires. And maybe you can explain the dark side of the moon while you are at it. If it is covered in small flames then there would be no dark side. BTW what feeds those small fires. Sheesh guys c'mon. You sound like the Hare Krsna version of the Christians Young Creationists.

[mahak]

there is no dark side of the moon, it is all dark. I mean, look at it? How can Chandra rule such a horrid place?

 

Must be something else, chandra loka is very vibrant.

[theist]

Or Chandra-loka must be some place else.

[suchandra]

 

Or Chandra-loka must be some place else.

When it is stated that Chandra-loka is above the Sun, why this description should go along with the parameters of our material minds? This doesnt make sense, rather sastra presents knowledge from the spiritual platform beyond our material conception - the Moon is above the Sun, indicating that the Moon is a planet which requires more pious activities to reach than the Sun.

What our material minds and senses can perceive from the Moon might be just some craters but what about if a whole different dimension of material energy is installed on the Moon which we can't perceive with our material senses? We might perceive the Moon's harddisk so to speak but not what operating system is installed upon this harddisk. We have this already here, cyberworlds which cannot be perceived by people who have no platform, i.e. no internet access. This would also explain the long duration of life - on heavenly planets they live thousands of years, but would this be possible in bodies like ours? Our bodies are surely totally different, mind and senses the same.

But the conditioning forces us to consider this mind and senses as real perception.

[AncientMariner]

 

Just like the fall-from-goloka theorists you desperately search from some old letters to some neophytes that wrote to Prabhupada and expressed some doubts or weakness thereby obliging Srila Prabhupada to get out the baby bottle and feed the infants with something they were willing to accept.

I don't believe that Srila Prabhupada would ever have approved of his letters that were time and circumstance and in response to particular individuals showing weakness or doubt to be put into a book or a central collection and used as the basis for Gaudiya siddhanta.

 

In short, I think many of the letters are just outdated and irrelevant.

 

In Srimad Bhagavatam PROPER Srila Prabhupada doesn't encourage the pablum approach to the Bhagavatam. He only made compromises in letters because some doofus was showing some inability to appreciate some parts of the Bhagavatam.

 

Here in this verse Srila Prabhupada explains the way one must accept the Bhagavatam including the descriptions of the virat rupa.

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 5.26.38 purport

 

Obviously, in the Bhagavatam proper Srila Prabhupada doesn't encourage picking and choosing and and deriding of parts of the Bhagavatam to do not fit into our conditioned perception.

 

For thousands of years the great souls have attained perfection by understanding and accepting Srimad Bhagavatam with great faith.

When that GREAT FAITH becomes picking and choosing and dissecting and faultfinding then somehow we have failed the test of faith.

 

 

I find the letters to be useful in the sense that they are an interchange between guru and disciple so if someone trying to understand the Absolute Truth has similar questions they can get an idea of what Prabhupada's thoughts were on various subjects. Granted there is no guarantee that Prabhupada would give the same answer now but the quotes from the letters are interesting to me and I don't really buy that they have no value or that they are some sort of threat to the Krsna Consciousness Movement but I could be wrong. Seems to me there have been much more damaging things to the Krishna Consciousness Movement than somebody drawing conclusions from personal letters that may or may not have been Prabhupada's intent.

[passionate_freak]

Science ????Huh!!! It's too mundane.

 

When there's no actual facts even about the intriguing stuff like UFO, how could it be taken the facts of science authentic in such matters???The creature living in outer spaces possess much more advanced SCIENCE. Which can be realized through spiritual Sadhanas only, Tantra. Science has been revolving around the mundane sphere only. But I'm not ignoring the facilities it has provided us, it's praiseworthy.

I've seen dead people being raised with just a single touch...seen the death walking...Think, has science ever done it??? Felt the Gods... ... ... ... ... ... and known what a GURU is ........and what life means exactly... ... ... ... ... ... ...

[suchandra]

 

Science ????Huh!!! It's too mundane.

 

When there's no actual facts even about the intriguing Factor like UFO how could it be taken The creature living in outer spaces possess much more advanced SCIENCE. Which can be realized through spiritual Sadhanas only, Tantra. Science has been revolving around the mundane sphere only. But I'm not ignoring the facilities it has provided us, it's praiseworthy.

I've seen dead people being raised with just a single touch...seen the death walking...Think, has science ever done it??? Felt the Gods... ... ... ... ... ... and known what a GURU is ........and what life means exactly... ... ... ... ... ... ...

There's a saying that in NY every taxi driver is a philosopher, so in fact they all say what you're saying, I know what life means exactly.

But who cares?

[Guruvani]

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 2.2.22 purport

 

 

The inhabitants of the earth cannot move even to the nearest planet except by mechanical vehicles like spacecraft, but the highly talented inhabitants of such higher planets can do everything very easily.

.

[mahak]

 

There's a saying that in NY every taxi driver is a philosopher, so in fact they all say what you're saying, I know what life means exactly.

But who cares?

 

It depends on which taxi ya take, where ya goin, How yas doooin.

 

Uncle Puru, now theresa a taxi. Miss ya bra. mahak

[Guruvani]

Here in this purport Srila Prabhupada says the Moon is in the upper stratus of the universe. That would be svargaloka.

so, if there is a rock orbiting the earth about 30,000 miles away it cannot be the Moon spoken of in Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 2.5.40-41

 

 

The moon is situated in the third status of the upper planetary system,

[theist]

 

Here in this purport Srila Prabhupada says the Moon is in the upper stratus of the universe. That would be svargaloka.

so, if there is a rcok orbiting the earth about 30,000 miles away it cannot be the Moon spoken of in Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 2.5.40-41

 

"If there is a rock orbiting the earth....?" Oh there is a rock alright. If you want to interpret the Bhagavatam as saying Chandra-loka is something different than that rock I would have to agree with you. Rather the Bhagavatam means that or not I will leave to others to be concerned with.

[mahak]

Thomas is my hero because he asks the hard questions, so I have no objection to all these topics about science v veda. Analogy or true, take what you need, leave the rest, I always say. And Prabhupada says something similar, if one gets stuck, keep chanting, keep studying, it'll come.

 

So what we always come to is the credibility of bhagavatam versus the creddibility of the scientific version. I posted the yudhisthira conclusion because he understands that the cosmos are somewhere else, not where we reside at all. We dont even reside on earth, because 75% of that is under water. We are merely on the pin point of where we stand, this is where we make the decision to take or leave all the versions of reality that are presented before us, from all sources.

 

So who deserves credibility. Srila Prabhupada does, becauswe he does not lie, the even minor stuff he taught us as kids are still true, still vibrant, and we also know he never said anything that did not jive with God, Guru, Shastra, past saints, etc. His credibility is beyond dialogue.

 

Does science deserve credibility? I stll have my fourth grade science book that affirms that Piltdown Man is out ancestor, yet Piltdown man turned out to be a hoax, and later books do not mention anything about such a thing. And all the science of the eighteenth century got replaced by the barbarian science of the 1800s, then the 20th century dawned, proclaimed by science as the age of enlightenment. Now we are in the 21st century, and science is still asking for credibility, but do not deserve a tip of the hat, IMHO. Because it is a fact that all the truth science has to offer to the third grader will be obsolete by the time one enters tenth grade.

 

So I say science has done nothing to deserve the act of blind faith they request of me. And it is blind faith. What do you know about the 1970s exploration by man of the moon? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. What do you think it would cost to put a man on the moon today? Try this, all the money ever spent on a NASA project, civilian or military, including the exspense of the so called Appollo Moon Missions, all this money combined would be insufficient to put the next man on the moon. Science cannot even go to the space station 200 miles up without exhausting taxes spent better elsewhere. Science cannot keep submarines from rapidly turning back to Red Iron (Corrosion), they cannot give people transportation without ruining their enviromnent.

 

Science deserves absolutely no credibility. They dont know how to measure a wave, yet Im to believe them when they say swomething is millions of light years away?

 

Sorry, I dont dis ya, but Ill never join your belief of science religion, no way no how. They dont deserve the time wasted considering their lying proposals.

 

Srila Prabhupada says the sun is closer than the moon? Of course, he deserves the credibility, the vedas deserve the credibility.

 

Funny thing though, Prabhupadas version is actually verified by the rebellion of the real scientist (cremo, tesla, velikovski, et al) against the contrivance of political control of human mentality.

 

So, no, I dont believe you at all if you give so-called scientific fact, because next year, youll be spouting their new relative truth.

 

mahaksadasa

[Guruvani]

Here in this verse of Srimad Bhagavatam we find that the Ganges flows from the Causal ocean to the highest planets near the Polestar and then is carried by celestial airplanes to the Moon and THEN to the abode of Lord Brahma atop Mt. Meru.

 

From this description the Moon of the Bhagavatam is in the highest regions of the universe.

 

I can't help but think that this Moon cannot be the moon we now know as Earth's moon.

 

Srila Prabhupada said the NASA space missions were landing on Rahu.

 

 

 

 

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 5.17.4

 

tato 'neka-sahasra-koṭi-vimānānīka-sańkula-deva-yānenāvatar-antīndu maṇḍalam āvārya brahma-sadane nipatati

 

SYNONYMS

tataḥ — after purifying the seven planets of the seven great sages; aneka — many; sahasra — thousands; koṭi — of millions; vimāna-anīka — with contingents of airplanes; sańkula — congested; deva-yānena — by the spaceways of the demigods; avatarantī — descending; indu-maṇḍalam — the moon planet; āvārya — inundated; brahma-sadane — to the abode of Lord Brahmā atop Sumeru-parvata; nipatati — falls down.

 

 

TRANSLATION

After purifying the seven planets near Dhruvaloka [the polestar], the Ganges water is carried through the spaceways of the demigods in billions of celestial airplanes. Then it inundates the moon [Candraloka] and finally reaches Lord Brahmā's abode atop Mount Meru.

 

 

PURPORT

We should always remember that the Ganges River comes from the Causal Ocean, beyond the covering of the universe. After the water of the Causal Ocean leaks through the hole created by Lord Vāmanadeva, it flows down to Dhruvaloka (the polestar) and then to the seven planets beneath Dhruvaloka. Then it is carried to the moon by innumerable celestial airplanes, and then it falls to the top of Mount Meru, which is known as Sumeru-parvata. In this way, the water of the Ganges finally reaches the lower planets and the peaks of the Himalayas, and from there it flows through Hardwar and throughout the plains of India, purifying the entire land. How the Ganges water reaches the various planets from the top of the universe is explained herein. Celestial airplanes carry the water from the planets of the sages to other planets. So-called advanced scientists of the modern age are trying to go to the higher planets, but at the same time they are experiencing a power shortage on earth. If they were actually capable scientists, they could personally go by airplane to other planets, but this they are unable to do. Having now given up their moon excursions, they are attempting to go to other planets, but without success.

 

[theist]

 

Sorry, I dont dis ya, but Ill never join your belief of science religion, no way no how. They dont deserve the time wasted considering their lying proposals.

 

Are you directing this to me?

[theist]

 

Here in this verse of Srimad Bhagavatam we find that the Ganges flows from the Causal ocean to the highest planets near the Polestar and then is carried by celestial airplanes to the Moon and THEN to the abode of Lord Brahma atop Mt. Meru.

 

 

 

Do you mean Lord Siva and Mt. Kailasa?

[Guruvani]

 

Do you mean Lord Siva and Mt. Kailasa?

It's not what I am saying.

It's what is in the verse I posted.

It says Lord Brahma atop Mt. Meru, not Lord Siva atop Mt. Kailasa.

 

 

TRANSLATION

After purifying the seven planets near Dhruvaloka [the polestar], the Ganges water is carried through the spaceways of the demigods in billions of celestial airplanes. Then it inundates the moon [Candraloka] and finally reaches Lord Brahma's abode atop Mount Meru

 

(brahma-sadane nipatati)

 

It is was Sukadeva Goswami said, not what I said.

[theist]

Just asking mr. Grumpy. So it goes to the Moon then to Lord Brahma by billions of celestial airplanes. How does it get onto Siva's head from there?

[Guruvani]

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 5.17.5

 

tatra caturdhā bhidyamānā caturbhir nāmabhiś catur-diśam abhispandantī nada-nadī-patim evābhiniviśati sītālakanandā cakṣur bhadreti

 

 

SYNONYMS

tatra — there (on top of Mount Meru); caturdhā — into four branches; bhidyamānā — being divided; caturbhiḥ — with four; nāmabhiḥ — names; catuḥ-diśam — the four directions (east, west, north and south); abhispandantī — profusely flowing; nada-nadī-patim — the reservoir of all great rivers (the ocean); eva — certainly; abhiniviśati — enters; sītā-alakanandā — Sītā and Alakanandā; cakṣuḥ — Cakṣu; bhadrā — Bhadrā; iti — known by these names.

 

 

TRANSLATION

On top of Mount Meru, the Ganges divides into four branches, each of which gushes in a different direction [east, west, north and south]. These branches, known by the names Sītā, Alakanandā, Cakṣu and Bhadrā, flow down to the ocean.

[theist]

 

TRANSLATION

On top of Mount Meru, the Ganges divides into four branches, each of which gushes in a different direction [east, west, north and south]. These branches, known by the names Sītā, Alakanandā, Cakṣu and Bhadrā, flow down to the ocean.

 

 

Ocean? What Ocean? Are you saying the oceans on Earth? So then this Mt. Meru where Lord Brahma lives is in the Himalayas?

[Guruvani]

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 5.17.6

 

sītā tu brahma-sadanāt kesarācalādi-giri-śikharebhyo 'dho 'dhaḥ prasravantī gandhamādana-mūrdhasu patitvāntareṇa bhadrāśva-varṣaḿ prācyāḿ diśi kṣāra-samudram abhipraviśati

 

SYNONYMS

sītā — the branch known as Sītā; tu — certainly; brahma-sadanāt — from Brahmapurī; kesarācala-ādi — of Kesarācala and of other great mountains; giri — hills; śikharebhyaḥ — from the tops; adhaḥ adhaḥ — downward; prasravantī — flowing; gandhamādana — of Gandhamādana Mountain; mūrdhasu — on the top; patitvā — falling down; antareṇa — within; bhadrāśva-varṣam — the province known as Bhadrāśva; prācyām — in the western; diśi — direction; kṣāra-samudram — the ocean of salt water; abhipraviśati — enters.

 

 

TRANSLATION

The branch of the Ganges known as the Sītā flows through Brahmapurī atop Mount Meru, and from there it runs down to the nearby peaks of the Kesarācala Mountains, which stand almost as high as Mount Meru itself. These mountains are like a bunch of filaments around Mount Meru. From the Kesarācala Mountains, the Ganges falls to the peak of Gandhamādana Mountain and then flows into the land of Bhadrāśva-varṣa. Finally it reaches the ocean of salt water in the west.

 

[theist]

 

SB 5.17.4: After purifying the seven planets near Dhruvaloka [the polestar], the Ganges water is carried through the spaceways of the demigods in billions of celestial airplanes. Then it inundates the moon [Candraloka] and finally reaches Lord Brahmā's abode atop Mount Meru.

SB 5.17.5: On top of Mount Meru, the Ganges divides into four branches, each of which gushes in a different direction [east, west, north and south]. These branches, known by the names Sītā, Alakanandā, Cakṣu and Bhadrā, flow down to the ocean.

SB 5.17.6: The branch of the Ganges known as the Sītā flows through Brahmapurī atop Mount Meru, and from there it runs down to the nearby peaks of the Kesarācala Mountains, which stand almost as high as Mount Meru itself. These mountains are like a bunch of filaments around Mount Meru. From the Kesarācala Mountains, the Ganges falls to the peak of Gandhamādana Mountain and then flows into the land of Bhadrāśva-varṣa. Finally it reaches the ocean of salt water in the west.

SB 5.17.7: The branch of the Ganges known as Cakṣu falls onto the summit of Mālyavān Mountain and from there cascades onto the land of Ketumāla-varṣa. The Ganges flows incessantly through Ketumāla-varṣa and in this way also reaches the ocean of salt water in the West.

SB 5.17.8: The branch of the Ganges known as Bhadrā flows from the northern side of Mount Meru. Its waters fall onto the peaks of Kumuda Mountain, Mount Nīla, Śveta Mountain and Śṛńgavān Mountain in succession. Then it runs down into the province of Kuru and, after crossing through that land, flows into the saltwater ocean in the north.

SB 5.17.9: Similarly, the branch of the Ganges known as Alakanandā flows from the southern side of Brahmapurī [Brahma-sadana]. Passing over the tops of mountains in various lands, it falls down with fierce force upon the peaks of the mountains Hemakūṭa and Himakūṭa. After inundating the tops of those mountains, the Ganges falls down onto the tract of land known as Bhārata-varṣa, which she also inundates. Then the Ganges flows into the ocean of salt water in the south. Persons who come to bathe in this river are fortunate. It is not very difficult for them to achieve with every step the results of performing great sacrifices like the Rājasūya and Aśvamedha yajñas.

 

Well this description is very confusing to me. The Ganges is supposed tp flow to the salt water ocean in the west. But west of the himalayas the first salt water is the Meditarranean. Or if that is not consider the ocean then there is the Atlantic which means the ganges must run through Europe. Two branches are said to run this way.

 

Another is said to run to the salt ocean in the North which means the Ganges would have to run through western China an through the heart of Russia for a long way brfore reaching salt water.

 

Then another branch runs south through Bharatavarsa. Not straight south of course really I think it is more east than south but certainly south first. Maybe the west and north branches stopped flowing for some reason and the demigods hid all traces of the Ganges having gone through China Russia the Middle East and Europe, probably because the people were meat eaters or something.

 

Well such is the nature of temporary things. They always change on you and make you confused. I think I will just stick to searching for the eternal truths in the Bhagavatam and leave the geogrphy and cosmology to others.

[suchandra]

 

Well this description is very confusing to me. The Ganges is supposed tp flow to the salt water ocean in the west. But west of the himalayas the first salt water is the Meditarranean. Or if that is not consider the ocean then there is the Atlantic which means the ganges must run through Europe. Two branches are said to run this way.

 

Another is said to run to the salt ocean in the North which means the Ganges would have to run through western China an through the heart of Russia for a long way brfore reaching salt water.

 

Then another branch runs south through Bharatavarsa. Not straight south of course really I think it is more east than south but certainly south first. Maybe the west and north branches stopped flowing for some reason and the demigods hid all traces of the Ganges having gone through China Russia the Middle East and Europe, probably because the people were meat eaters or something.

 

Well such is the nature of temporary things. They always change on you and make you confused. I think I will just stick to searching for the eternal truths in the Bhagavatam and leave the geogrphy and cosmology to others.

 

I remember Prabhupada once metioned that Euphrates-Tigris are holy rivers for the Christians, could be that these are all different branches of the Ganges. Another thing is that from Earth the Ganges flows to other lower planets:

 

 

In this way, the water of the Ganges finally reaches the lower planets and the peaks of the Himalayas, and from there it flows through Hardwar and throughout the plains of India, purifying the entire land. How the Ganges water reaches the various planets from the top of the universe is explained herein. Celestial airplanes carry the water from the planets of the sages to other planets. So-called advanced scientists of the modern age are trying to go to the higher planets, but at the same time they are experiencing a power shortage on earth. If they were actually capable scientists, they could personally go by airplane to other planets, but this they are unable to do. Having now given up their moon excursions, they are attempting to go to other planets, but without success.

SB 5.17.4

 

[theist]

I know you are well meaning in your attempt to harmonize all these statements in the Bhagavatam with common understanding of today suchandra. I on the other hand feel no such need. I find far more than enough eternal truth woven in and amongst the misconceptions and superstitons of ancient writers to more than keep me busy for lifetimes.

 

Your attempt to harmonize all these things will lead you farther and farther into implausability. For instance your thoughts above concerning the Tigris and Euphrates. These rivers can be accepted as holy without the need to connect everything to the Ganges. I can accept the Jordan river as sacred because Lord Jesus accepted the rite of baptism in the Jordan from John. No problem. Other reasons no doubt exist for these other rivers.

 

In another way everywhere is sacred because the Lord is present everywhere and in everything and in that way is naturally sanctified.

 

But if you insist everything must confirm the statements in the Bhagavatam, well I don't think the Euphrates or Tigris can be traced to being a branch of the Ganges flowing down from the Himalayas. Even if it was, then now you must solve the question of the north flowing branch the goes to the northern salt ocean (whereever that is) through China and Russia.

 

But why spend time in such an endeavor? Kali-yuga is intensifying at a stunning rate. Krsna told Uddhava not to stay on earth during this period and this advice is good for all of us. Only eternal knowledge will save us.

[suchandra]

 

I know you are well meaning in your attempt to harmonize all these statements in the Bhagavatam with common understanding of today suchandra. I on the other hand feel no such need. I find far more than enough eternal truth woven in and amongst the misconceptions and superstitons of ancient writers to more than keep me busy for lifetimes.

 

Your attempt to harmonize all these things will lead you farther and farther into implausability. For instance your thoughts above concerning the Tigris and Euphrates. These rivers can be accepted as holy without the need to connect everything to the Ganges. I can accept the Jordan river as sacred because Lord Jesus accepted the rite of baptism in the Jordan from John. No problem. Other reasons no doubt exist for these other rivers.

 

In another way everywhere is sacred because the Lord is present everywhere and in everything and in that way is naturally sanctified.

 

But if you insist everything must confirm the statements in the Bhagavatam, well I don't think the Euphrates or Tigris can be traced to being a branch of the Ganges flowing down from the Himalayas. Even if it was, then now you must solve the question of the north flowing branch the goes to the northern salt ocean (whereever that is) through China and Russia.

 

But why spend time in such an endeavor? Kali-yuga is intensifying at a stunning rate. Krsna told Uddhava not to stay on earth during this period and this advice is good for all of us. Only eternal knowledge will save us.

You're so right prabhu, it's a great relief to give up all these endeavours of explaining things into people's present brain capacity what is like beating an empty husk to get the grain. Material brains can only perceive material input - it's that simple. Although there're materialists who spent more time to live in the cyber-world of bits and bytes at http://secondlife.com/ than in their "real world"- fully identifying with a virtual avatar body, still materialists can't grasp the meaning that there're other realities beyond our brain capacity. Btw, didnt they open a Hare Krishna temple at secondlive.com?