Our constitutional body is eternal, presently we are all dreaming

[Vigraha]

 

 

We are all dreaming as our nitya-baddha secondary self within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu

Our authentic constitutional eternal self is nitya-siddha in Goloka

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

“However, because of contact with matter, the imprisoned soul loses the memory of his original spiritual form in Vaikuntha. . . material rasas are perverted reflections of the soul's original spiritual rasas.” Prema-pradipa, p. 83

 

“Only the purified soul can attain the perfection of associating with the Personality of Godhead in complete bliss and satisfaction in his constitutional state. Whoever is able to renovate such devotional perfection is never again attracted by this material world, and he never returns.” Srimad Bhagavatam 2.2.31

 

“It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter, having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for enjoyment. But when again the soul . . . gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of God . . . he begins to get back his pure essential nature . . .” Sri Chaitanya’s Teachings, page 323.

 

“By the grace of Krishna, we have complete freedom. Because the Lord is kind to us, we can live anywhere, either in the spiritual sky or in the material sky, upon whichever planet we desire. However, misuse of this freedom causes one to fall down into the material world and suffer the threefold miseries of conditioned life. The living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul's choice is nicely illustrated by Milton in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice, the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead.” Caitanya-caritamrita, Adi Lila 5.22, Purport

 

Srila Prabhupada “The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world. However, when the living entity, misusing his tiny independence, wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)

[Vigraha]

Srila Prabhupada - 'Every living being, out of many, many billions and trillions of living beings has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi--perfection of one's constitutional position'.Introduction to the Bhagavad Gita as it ia

 

Srila Prabhupada - “We are also expansions of Krishna’s form. These jivas, the living entities... Krishna is expanding in two ways, svamsa and vibhinnamsa. Svamsa means Vishnu. One extension, expansion, is just directly He Himself. And another expansion is separated from Him. That separated from Him (marginal) we are”. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 -- San Francisco, March 28, 1968

 

Srila Prabhupada: Anyone, even in this world or spiritual world, he has got the propensity of coming down by misusing his little independence. It is nothing like that, that if you become president, you are secure. (Lecture, Atlanta, March 2, 1975)

 

:deal: So this dreaming condition (in the material creation or mahat-tattva) is called non-liberated life (inferior nitya-baddha bodiless conscious condition), and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krishna consciousness (remembering our superior nitya-siddha-svarupa perpetual body) then this period is considered as a second".

[Vigraha]

Guruvani you brought up this subject of our eternal constitution, not me. The beauty about this web site is that it is not a dictatorship meaning you have no right to edit or dictate how others think or post Srila Prabhupada's correct understanding of our constitutional position. At least I believe that and have that right to post his comments. If you want a totalatarian dictatorship then start your own web site and be the lord and master controller of everything. Then you will have a web Site of 'yes devotees and Guests' who only believe in what you believe in. Didn't you criticize ISKCON of the same dictatorial tactics and now you want the moderaters to ban me

 

Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

 

Paramahamsa: Fall down?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice,Yes," Krsna says, "yes, you go . . . Otherwise what is the meaning of free will?” Morning Walk, Cheviot Hills Golf Course May 13, 1973 Los Angeles

[Vigraha]

Ravindra Svarup Prabhu – “When we "return" to the spiritual world, it will only be to discover that indeed we never left, and there has always been right here. We are right now with Krsna, for Krsna consciousness is our svarupa, our eternal identity and perpetual constitutional position. We need only wake up and see where we are. All this is known to Srila Prabhupada and to the acaryas. They know how one can fall from a place no one falls from, enter into an ignorance that has always been, and return to a place one never actually left. Because such matters are inconceivable to mundane minds, when teachers speak of such things their words may seem contradictory. But in one way or another they all tell the whole truth” Ravindra Svarup dasa web site

[Vigraha]

Dhirasanta: Srila Prabhupada was walking in St. James’s Park, tapping his cane on the ice that had formed overnight. At one point he asked, “What does this mean?” We looked at each other and wondered what we should say. Prabhupada asked again, “What does this mean?” We couldn’t fathom what Prabhupada meant. Suddenly he said, “Ice is maya. The original constitution of water is liquid, but when it comes in contact with freezing weather it becomes hard ice. And when there is ice, there is the possibility that you may slip.” Prabhupada may have been breaking the ice because he didn’t want anyone to slip. He continued the analogy, explaining that the heart becomes hard, but just as the sun rises and melts the ice, in the same way the continued chanting of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra softens the heart and reinstates the individual in his natural constitutional position.

[Vigraha]

If one is in an imperishable atmosphere then the very meaning of ‘imperishable’ is no one ever leaves as that constitution or foundational Krishna Conscious body they eternally are in Goloka or Vaikuntha.

 

One can leave if they choose to reject Krishna however, they can only leave Goloka 'sub-consciously' like one leaves their present body while dreaming.

 

 

The imperishable aspect of the jiva is ones eternal ‘svarupa Krishna Conscious body’ or ones perpetual nitya-siddha constitutional position. Therefore the ‘perishable’ (nitya-baddha consciousness) is nothing other than a dreaming condition emanating from ones imperishable marginal identity while unconscious to their full constitutional nitya-siddha identity, which is perpetually beyond the mundane decaying effect of time and space in the material creation (mahat-tattva) and 'always' in Goloka.

 

Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Jaiva Dharma, chapter 15 reads as follows, explaining what imperishable means which is beyond the confines of material time and space:

 

Babaji: The space and time of the spiritual world are completely different from the space and time you are experiencing in this inert world. Material time is divided into past, present and future. But in the spiritual world there is only the one imperishable present time. Every event in the spiritual world is ever present.

Whatever we speak or describe in the material world is under the influence of material space and material time. therefore, whenever we make statements such as, 'the Jivas were created', 'thereafter the Jivas became bound by maya', 'the spiritual world became manifest', 'there is no aspect of maya in the constitution of the Jiva', material time influences our language. These kinds of statements are unavoidable in our conditioned state. For this reason, no statement concerning the Jiva and spirit is exempt from the jurisdiction of material time. Feelings of past present and future naturally creep in. therefore, while experiencing the import of the descriptions of the spiritual world an spiritual objects, people who are devoted to pure thinking experience the changeless nature of present time. Be very careful in this respect. Giving up the unwanted sense which is unavoidable (due to the influence of material time) try to experience the spirit........ I know at present you will not be able to digest these subtleties so quickly. As the spiritual influence will increase in your heart, so the spiritual understanding will easily increase, distinguishing it from the material conception. You body is inert and so are all the bodily activities, but you are not; you are an atomic conscious being. The more you are able to understand yourself, the more you will experience yourself as superior to the material world. Therefore, even if I explain it and you listen, you will not able to grasp it. The more you awaken your spiritual consciousness by taking shelter of the holy name, the more you will experience the spiritual world." (Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Jaiva Dharma, chapter 15.).

[Sarva gattah]

 

 

Srila Prabhupada writes: “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes:

 

 

 

 

 

Yah karanarnava – jale bhajati sma yaga

 

 

 

Nidram ananta – jagad- anda- saroma- kupah

 

 

'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.

 

The Supreme Lord is absolute. Whatever He does is real. When He dreams His mystic slumber into which we are participating, is also reality. Being part of Maha-Visnu’s dream is so bewildering that it holds ever more surprises for us, and the Lord too. He watches sometimes with amazement what is happening here.

 

“Although the Supreme Personality of Godhead constantly watches the activities of this world, no one sees Him. However, one should not think that because no one can see Him, He does not see, for His power to see is never diminished. Therefore, everyone should worship the Supersoul, who always stays with the individual soul as a friend.” SB. 8.1.11.

 

For those who are awakening, the worship of the Supersoul means accepting and worshipping the spiritual master who is no different from Paramatma. The Gita Mahatmya of the Padma Purana also relates how Maha-Visnu watches His yoga-nidra in action.

 

Srila Prabhupada used a host of words throughout his writings to describe the dreaming condition: illusion, delusion, matter, Maya, distress, birth and death, bewilderment, doubt, fear, material life, sense gratification, sinful activities, misdeeds, temporary, misery, fruitive activities, I and mine, mental speculation, external energy, lusty desires, fallen, false prestige, fools, rascals and so on.

 

Open reading his books one will find matters pertaining to sleeping or waking circumstances because he is after all an awakened soul who came to mingle in our miserable dream world to sound the alarm, and he continues his guidance for sincere awakers.

 

Restricted as we are while traversing our mutual dreamscapes, Krsna is always introducing different waking devices: His unlimited avatars, the Vedas, His pure devotees and His holy names. His kindness knows no bounds. Lord Chaitanya said:

 

“Forgetting Krsna, the living entity has been attracted by the external feature from time immemorial. Therefore the illusory energy [Maya] gives him all kinds of misery in his material existence.” CC. Madhya 20.117.

 

 

 

 

Our body and the pleasures and pains associated with it, serve to deepen our sleeping condition.

 

 

 

 

Kota nidra jao maya – piscira kole….” We have slept for so long on the lap of the witch called Maya.”

 

 

 

 

If by some good fortune we hear a sound, feel a touch, receive a glance, experience a taste or smell an aroma issuing from an awakened source, it should beckon us to realize only one objective – to awaken to the orders of the spiritual master who will engage all of our senses in Krsna’s service.

 

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada says: “Thus the change of the gross body is not very important, but the change of the subtle body is important. The Krsna consciousness movement is educating people to enlighten the subtle body.” Purport to SB. 4.29.61.

 

 

 

 

 

The waking process may take some time. If it is very rare to attain bhava where our true eternally awakened self is developed, shedding the gross and subtle dream body, then only a greedy, hungry effort, anxious to adopt all positive awakening procedures may expedite matters.

 

 

 

 

 

Lord Krsna states: “After many births and deaths, he who actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knows Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare.” BG. 7.19.

 

 

 

 

 

While we are awakening, any acquirement of mercy can be passed on to other sleeping souls, to sound gentle informed alarm bell talks. When awakened souls gather to converse about the awoken reality personified [Krsna] and His nearest and dearest, such enlivening chatter will keep us awake and entice us towards Krsna Prema.

 

 

 

 

“O Narada, I am not in Vaikuntha nor am I in the hearts of the yogis. I remain where My devotees glorify My name, form, qualities and transcendental pastimes.” Padma Purana.

 

 

 

 

In the meantime while we are here staying awake, perhaps we can also, like Maha-Visnu, observe the incredible workings of this dream world, if even as a reminder to keep alert, or to be interestingly occupied.

 

 

 

 

“Krsna consciousness means constantly associating with the Supreme Personality of Godhead in such a mental state that the devotee can observe the cosmic manifestation exactly as the Supreme Personality of Godhead does. Such observation is not always possible, but it becomes manifest exactly like the dark planet known as Rahu, which is observed in the presence of the full moon.” SB. 4.29.69.

 

 

 

 

The entire millions of Vedic verses though varied in subject matter, really direct us toward sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. One who knows the real meaning of the scriptures will simply chant Hare Krsna, for this is the alpha and omega of all sacrifices. If we obtain good fortune in this way, we will have progressed from susupti to awakening to awake.

 

 

 

 

“Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b.

 

 

 

 

Copied from an article by Kesava Krsna dasa – GRS.

 

[theist]

Yes, laying aside the issue of the exact nature of our origin it is certainly a fact beyond all intelligent argument that we are indeed dreaming. Only someone with absolutely no knowledge of the nature of the self as opposed to the nature of the material world would ever claim otherwise.

[Guruvani]

There is no dreaming in the spiritual world.

All the liberated souls in the spiritual world are fully awake to their spiritual nature and there is no such thing as a material dream happening in the spiritual world.

The material world is a dream and we are falsely thinking it to be real.

 

Shastra says clearly that maya or this dreaming conditioned has no existence in the spiritual world.

 

Only in the Mahat Tattva can there be any dreaming or false ego of the soul.

 

There is not a single soul in Vaikuntha that is dreaming to be in the material illusion.

Maya cannot touch any liberated soul in Vaikuntha.

[Sarva gattah]

 

 

“Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 4.29.2b.

 

 

 

 

The eternal 'reality of sevice to Radha and Krishna' is shown below within the lotus flower abode of Lord Krishna and Lord Chaitanya. The surronding Vaikuntha planets are also within the realms of 'eternal' reality of servitude to Lord Vishnu..

 

 

 

It is only within a dark petal of that lotus flower as shown below, that the 'perpetual reality' of the Spiritual Sky is divided into past, present and future and under the control of Maha-Vishnu who is actually dreaming all the activities within that petal or dark cloud within the Spiritual Sky.

 

 

 

 

The side effect of this phenomenon is everything is impermanent within the mahat-tattva (material creation) dreams of Maha-Vishnu.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sarva gattah]

 

Such divided time and impermanence do not exist in the eternal pastimes of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

<st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> within the rest of the lotus flower or Spiritual Sky. The only way to 'fall down' into the dreams of Maha-Vishnu and enter that dark cloud in the Spiritual Sky which is one of the petals of the lotus flower as shown above, is by choosing to no longer be Krishna's servant. however, because ones perptual body in Goloka is eternally there, one only falls down in a dreaming state to the mahat-tattva and such ;dreams' are then provided ethereal and biological form, vessels or bodies by Maha-Vishnu's dreams that are all perishable.

 

[Sarva gattah]

 

 

Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes:

 

 

 

 

Yah karanarnava – jale bhajati sma yaga

Nidram ananta – jagad- anda- saroma- kupah

 

 

 

'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.

 

[Guruvani]

 

 

Such divided time and impermanence do not exist in the eternal pastimes of <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> within the rest of the lotus flower or Spiritual Sky. The only way to 'fall down' into the dreams of Maha-Vishnu and enter that dark cloud in the Spiritual Sky which is one of the petals of the lotus flower as shown above, is by choosing to no longer be Krishna's servant. however, because ones perptual body in Goloka is eternally there, one only falls down in a dreaming state to the mahat-tattva and such ;dreams' are then provided ethereal and biological form, vessels or bodies by Maha-Vishnu's dreams that are all perishable.

 

Cute.

But, unfortunately this is not a shastric statement though you would certainly like to fool people into thinking it is.

 

This is the result of misguided ISKCON leadership.

They have spawned a class of speculators and fabricators who manufacture false conclusions based off of pictures drawn by ISKCON artists.

 

There is no shastric statement that the Mahat Tattva is a petal of Goloka.

Shastra says there is a cloud in the spiritual sky where the Lord manifests the Maha-tattva, pradhana and the conditioned souls.

 

I doubt the more advanced devotees in ISKCON buy into this wild-eyed speculation like we find on this topic.

 

This kind of cartoon philosophy is for obscure devotees who don't really read the books or associate with advanced devotees.

[Sarva gattah]

 

Cute.

But, unfortunately this is not a shastric statement though you would certainly like to fool people into thinking it is.

 

This is the result of misguided ISKCON leadership.

They have spawned a class of speculators and fabricators who manufacture false conclusions based off of pictures drawn by ISKCON artists.

 

There is no shastric statement that the Mahat Tattva is a petal of Goloka.

Shastra says there is a cloud in the spiritual sky where the Lord manifests the Maha-tattva, pradhana and the conditioned souls.

 

I doubt the more advanced devotees in ISKCON buy into this wild-eyed speculation like we find on this topic.

 

This kind of cartoon philosophy is for obscure devotees who don't really read the books or associate with advanced devotees.

 

 

Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes:

 

Yah karanarnava – jale bhajati sma yaga

 

Nidram ananta – jagad- anda- saroma- kupah

 

 

 

'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.

 

 

 

 

 

Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return?

 

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

 

 

 

 

 

Paramahamsa: Fall down?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice,Yes," Krsna says, "yes, you go . . . Otherwise what is the meaning of free will?” Morning Walk, Cheviot Hills Golf Course May 13, 1973 Los Angeles

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sarva gattah]

Srila Prabhupada “The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world. However, when the living entity, misusing his tiny independence, wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world.”(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)

[Sarva gattah]

Quotes from Kailasa Candra dasa "The conclusion is that the jiva, although he does fall from the spiritual world, does not completely fall from it. Just as the jiva is eternally conditioned (because the duration of time is so immeasurable), he is also not forever conditioned. When this perspective is assimilated, the apparent contradiction of both of these terms is very easily removed'.

 

Kailasa Candra dasa - 'The living entity lives out material dreams of his or her karmic choice in body after body after body. But, when the jiva soul, in human form, sincerely, seriously, and intensely decides to perform bhakti-yoga and awaken, he or she will discover within a specific, personal, ever-liberated (non-fallen) eternal relationship with the Lord'.

 

Kailasa Candra dasa- 'If the living entity actually fell completely from the spiritual world, that relationship would have been extinguished. Such is not the case. It is almost totally covered over, but it is not actually extinguished. It can be revived. If the living entity was an eternally conditioned soul, then there could never be any hope for liberation and the promises of devotional service would be a colossal hoax and cartoon'.

 

Kailasa Candra dasa - 'From this perspective, the spiritual master can and does say that the conclusion is that the living entity never actually falls from the spiritual world".

[Guruvani]

 

Srila Prabhupada “The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world. However, when the living entity, misusing his tiny independence, wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world.”(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.54, purport)

 

Why do we only find this kind of philosophy in the purports?

Why is not there any many of these things in shastra proper?

 

The answer is that Srila Prabhupada preached what he thought the dull people of the western world could accept.

 

The BACK TO GODHEAD theme is something Srila Prabhupada introduced as a simplified philosophy that western people could understand easier than all the complicated detailed knowledge about marginal energy, eternal conditioning and eternal liberation.

 

The problem is see is that after Vaishnavism became an international phenomena many devotees became scholarly and educated to the original texts and started to see beyond the pre-school philsophy of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Even Mahaprabhu himself has admitted that the constutional position of the soul is in impersonal shanta-rasa.

 

Any literate person who reads shastra will see the truth beyond the pablum "BACK TO GODHEAD" theme of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Yes, BACK TO GODHEAD but in a higher advanced relationship than our constitutional position in impersonal shanta-rasa.

[Sarva gattah]

Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Paramahamsa: Fall down?

Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice,Yes," Krsna says, "yes, you go." Just like nobody is interested in Krsna consciousness. Do you think everyone is interested? So. They want to enjoy this material world. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Krsna is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." Just like some of our students, Krsna conscious, sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will, not stereotyped. Just like one goes to the prisonhouse, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got prisonhouse. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that. (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

[Sarva gattah]

Bhaktijana: Has my soul ever been liberated?

 

Prabhupada: That you know. I do not know.

 

Bhaktijana: If I was once liberated...

 

Prabhupada: 'You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this maya. This is called maya.

 

Prabhupada: 'Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967) emphases added

[Sarva gattah]

It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter, having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for enjoyment. But when again the soul . . . gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of God . . . he begins to get back his pure essential nature . . . - Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada, Sri Caitanya's Teachings, p. 323.

[Sarva gattah]

The only way to 'fall down' into the dreams of Maha-Vishnu and enter that dark cloud in the Spiritual Sky which is one of the petals of the lotus flower in the Spiritual Sky, is by choosing to no longer be Krishna's servant. however, because ones perptual svarupa body in Goloka is eternally there in Goloka, one only falls down in a sub conscious dreaming state (nitya-baddha) to the mahat-tattva similar to how one dreams at night while sleeping in their present biological body.

 

Such 'dreams' are then provided ethereal and biological form, vessels or bodies by Maha-Vishnu so they can enter His dreams that are all perishable.

 

What remaims 'imperishable' beyond mundane material time and impermanance is ones perpetual Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha identity or body that every marginal living entity has had eternally without origin. One just has to wake up from their material dreams within Maha-Vishnu's mahat-tattva and realize this fact by again becoming Krishna Conscious

 

[Sarva gattah]

 

Why do we only find this kind of philosophy in the purports?

Why is not there any many of these things in shastra proper?

 

The answer is that Srila Prabhupada preached what he thought the dull people of the western world could accept. .

 

 

If guruvani wants to minimize Prabhupadas teachings by calling his followers less intelligent, then thats alright however let him express such abuse on his own thread.

 

On this thread philosophical constructive criticism based on Prabhupadas teachings are fare however, when one directly criticises Prabhupadas teachings by making them less is unfair and offensive to those who are presenting his teachings.

[Guruvani]

 

those who are presenting his teachings.

You aren't presenting his teachings.

You are twising, distorting and abusing his teachings to support your own fairytale understanding of the Gaudiya siddhanta.

 

You abuse the teachings to support a bogus philosophy that contradicts the shastric conclusions.

 

All you have is a fairytale in your mind because you don't actually study the Gaudiya shatsra to try and know what the actual siddhanta of the shastra really is.

 

You have a fairytale you have imagined in your mind and you are abusing the statements of Srila Prabhupada to promote your fairytale and defend you false ego.

 

Show us ONE direct statement of Srila Prabhupada where he has ever said even ONE devotee has ever fallen from Goloka.

 

You can't.

All you can do it try to screw out this fairytale myth from the words of Srila Prabhupada because you refuse to give up your manufactured fairytale that contradicts the Gaudiya siddhanta.

 

And you say I am the offender?

[Vigraha]

"However, because of contact with matter, the imprisoned soul loses the memory of his original spiritual form in Vaikuntha. . . material rasas are perverted reflections of the soul's original spiritual rasas." Prema-pradipa,

[Vigraha]

:deal: These exact quotes are what Srila Prabhupada has said on our origins. He clearly says that all of us have come from Goloka. Only a fool, rascal, mundane religionist, athiest, materialist to attached to their biological identity, the envious, the ignorant, the selfish, the impersonalist or mayavadi and the demons, will not understand and aggressively and angrily NOT accept this absolute truth that ALL of us come from Goloka or Vaikuntha. In fact such low class human beings will almost go to any hash extreme to prove their nonsense that we all originate from the Brahmajoyti.

 

Aithough in all fairness there are many, many others all over the material universe who are innocent and simply in their early stages of Spiritual life, knowledge and developement, who wait patiently for their own devotional realizations to their Guru to reveal this truth Prabhupada has given us when they are ready.

 

Srila Prabhupada - "So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krsna it only seems like a second" Prabhupada in letter to Australian devotees 1972

 

Srila Prabhupada: "He has got already spiritual body. Material body is his covering. It is unnatural. Real body is spiritual. Just like your coat, this is unnatural. But your real body is natural. Otherwise how transmigration is possible? I am accepting different unnatural bodies. Unnatural means to my constitution. My real constitutional body is servant of Krishna. So, so long I do not come to that position, I remain servant of nature and I get so many bodies". (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles) .

 

Srila Prabhupada – “You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this maya. This is called maya. Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger". Caitanya-caritamrta lecture delivered in San Francisco on February 18, 1967

 

Srila Prabhupada - "So we have to get out of this dream. Don’t you sometimes dream that tiger is eating you? Is there any tiger? You are simply thinking. So if you keep in Krishna consciousness, that nonsense thinking will go away". Caitanya-caritamrta lecture delivered in San Francisco on February 18, 1967

 

Srila Prabhupada - 'Therefore we have to keep ourself always in Krishna-thinking so that this dream will never come. If you are always awakened, then dream never comes. So keep yourself always awakened by Krishna consciousness”. Caitanya-caritamrta lecture delivered in San Francisco on February 18, 1967

Srila Prabhupada on letter to Australian devotees 1972 - "We cannot say, therefore, that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become the Lord, immediately we are covered by 'maya'. Formerly we were with Krsna in His 'lila', or sport. But this covering of maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore [in the interim] many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever conditioned. But this long duration of time becomes very insignificant hen one actually comes to Krsna consciousness. Prabhupada in letter to Australian devotees 1972

 

It is like a dream: "We are thinking it is a very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only. To give another example: Krsna's friends were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and Krsna returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed". Prabhupada in letter to Australian devotees 1972