Our constitutional body is eternal, presently we are all dreaming

[Vigraha]

So what is the real meaning of nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) and nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned)?

Srila Prabhupada – “...We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated?...” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968,

Srila Prabhupada – ‘So the nitya-siddha maha-bhagavata, they come from the spiritual world on the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and they, by example, they preach Krishna Consciousness. This is maha-bhagavata. By suffering, by example, everything, they look like ordinary men, but maha-bhagavata. How it is tested? Never forgets <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 /><st1:place u2:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>. This is maha-bhagavata nitya-siddha. And sadhana-siddha means those who are put into this material world, by the association of maha-bhagavata, if he tries, follows, then he can also become maha-bhagavata or nitya-siddha, <U>because originally everyone is nitya-siddha.<?xml:namespace prefix = u1 /><u1:p></u1:p></U>

<u1:p></u1:p>nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti ‘sadhya' kabhu naya<u1:p></u1:p>

zravanadi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya<u1:p></u1:p>

 

<u1:p></u1:p>Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, but somehow or other, just like Jaya-Vijaya, fell down in this material world, and he was delivered also, both of them were delivered. So although you have fallen in this material world, and suffering the pangs of material existence, janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi [bg. 13.9], on account of accepting this material body, still, Krishna personally comes, yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [bg. 4.7]. This is glanih, discrepancies. We are living this material existence, this is not real life. Real life is to become maha-bhagavata".

<u1:p></u1:p>

<u1:p></u1:p>Srila Prabhupada:"Each and every living entity is originally attached to a particular type of transcendental service, because he is eternally the servitor of the Lord". - Srimad Bhagavatam 3.9.11, purport

 

<u1:p></u1:p>

[Sarva gattah]

On learning that the material world is not our real home, we naturally wonder, “How did we get here?” By Jayadvaita Swami from Back to Godhead, May-June 1993

 

 

 

When we hear that we live in this material world because we are “fallen souls,” it’s natural for us to ask, “Where have we fallen from?”

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada says that as living souls we are all originally Krishna conscious. But what does that mean? Were we all originally with Krishna in the spiritual world? And if so, how could we ever have fallen? In Bhagavad-gita Lord Krishna says, “Once you attain to that spiritual world, you never fall.” So how then could we have fallen from there to begin with?

 

 

 

 

 

Some have tried to work around this problem by suggesting a different idea: We fell not from Krishna’s personal abode but from the brahmajyoti, the effulgent light that surrounds it. As stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam, yogis who seek the impersonal aspect of the Supreme may merge into that effulgent light—only to fall back later to the material world. Perhaps, then, we originally fell from the brahmajyoti.

 

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada rejected this idea. Those in the brahmajyoti, he wrote, are not Krishna conscious, so they too are fallen. “So there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition.”

 

 

 

 

 

Well, then, since we’re called “eternally conditioned,” eternally illusioned, perhaps we’ve never really fallen at all—we’ve just always been down.

 

That idea, too, Srila Prabhupada rejected. “Eternally conditioned,” he explained, simply means that we’ve been down so long that when we fell is no longer possible to know.

 

 

 

 

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, three generations before Srila Prabhupada in the line of spiritual teachers, put it this way: “Please avoid the misleading question ‘When were these jivas [living beings] created and enthralled?’ The Mayik time has no existence in spiritual history, because it has its commencement after the enthrallment of jivas, and you cannot, therefore, employ Mayik chronology in matters like these.” From Jayadvaita Swami web site.

 

 

 

 

[Sarva gattah]

 

 

“The Relationship is with Krishna is Eternal”

 

 

 

 

Here, then, is how Srila Prabhupada described our original state and the way we fall and leave it.

 

 

 

 

“Constitutionally,” he said in one letter, “every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikunthaloka [the personal spiritual abode of the Lord], has a chance of falling down. Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy.”

 

 

 

 

 

“Usually,” he explained, “anyone who has developed his relationship with Krishna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misuse of his independence.”

 

 

 

 

 

In another letter, Srila Prabhupada gave further insights. “We are always with Krishna. Where is Krishna not present?” But “when we forget this fact we are far, far away from Him. In the Isopanisad it is clearly stated, tad dure tad v antike: ‘He is very far away, but He is very near as well.’ (Isopanisad, Mantra Five).

 

 

 

 

 

So this forgetfulness is our falldown. It can take place at any moment, and we can counteract this forgetfulness immediately by rising to the platform of Krishna consciousness.”

 

 

 

Our relationship with Krishna is never lost, Srila Prabhupada said. “Simply it is forgotten by the influence of maya. So it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the holy name of Krishna, and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position.

 

 

 

 

The relationship of the living entity with Krishna is eternal, as both Krishna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new.”

 

 

 

 

In still another letter, Srila Prabhupada restated this in yet another way: “We are all originally situated on the platform of Krishna consciousness in our eternal personal relationship of love of Krishna. But due to forgetfulness we become familiar with the material world, or maya.” But when we chant the Hare Krishna mantra sincerely and without offense, our original Krishna consciousness is at once revived.

 

 

 

 

“So naturally everything about Krishna is originally known to us all, and as soon as we begin to associate with the devotees of the Lord and chant His holy name, this memory gradually becomes stronger as we remember our constitutional position of always serving Krishna in different ways.”

 

 

 

 

Our separation from Krishna, Srila Prabhupada taught, is like a dream. We dream, “I am this body,” and we dream of happiness in material relationships. This dreaming condition is our non-liberated state. But although this state of dreaming may seem to last for lifetimes, as soon as we become Krishna conscious we awaken, and the dream at once disappears. “After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila [pastimes] of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness this period becomes insignificant, like dreaming.” From Jayadvaita Swami web site

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sarva gattah]

A letter from Jayapataka Swami

 

A mother is sending me a question from her son: 'He would like to know if we ever met Krsna before and if we have been in the spiritual world?'.

 

This is a complicated question as each individual has his own individual

history. We are all coming from Lord Sri Krishna and originally we come

from the spiritual world. Exactly what are the circumstances of our

specific fall into this material world may differ from one person to

another and we will only know exactly when we return to the spiritual world.

Just like if someone falls off a ship into the ocean and there are dangerous

sharks all around. When the rescue boat comes to save us we don't first

argue how we fell into the water, but first we get out. Then everything is

clear how we fell in. First things first!!! First get out of this illusion

and then how we fell in the first place is clear. Until we are in the

spiritual world again it isn't possible to understand the situations which

can permit us to leave it and get into the material world.

 

I hope that this finds you in good health.

Your well wisher,

Jayapataka Swami

 

[Sarva gattah]

Ravindra Svarup Prabhu – “When we "return" to the spiritual world, it will only be to discover that indeed we never left, and there has always been right here. We are right now with Krsna, for Krsna consciousness is our svarupa, our eternal identity and perpetual constitutional position. We need only wake up and see where we are. All this is known to Srila Prabhupada and to the acaryas. They know how one can fall from a place no one falls from, enter into an ignorance that has always been, and return to a place one never actually left. Because such matters are inconceivable to mundane minds, when teachers speak of such things their words may seem contradictory. But in one way or another they all tell the whole truth” Ravindra Svarup dasa web site

 

<!-- / message -->

[Guruvani]

No devotee who has ever attained the abode of Krishna never comes to the material world.

No devotee of Krishna in Goloka or Vaikuntha ever takes birth in the material world

 

 

Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 8.16

 

ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ

punar āvartino 'rjuna

mām upetya tu kaunteya

punar janma na vidyate

 

SYNONYMS

ā-brahma-bhuvanāt — up to the Brahmaloka planet; lokāḥ — the planetary systems; punaḥ — again; āvartinaḥ — returning; arjuna — O Arjuna; mām — unto Me; upetya — arriving; tu — but; kaunteya — O son of Kuntī; punaḥ janma — rebirth; na — never; vidyate — takes place.

 

 

TRANSLATION

From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of Kuntī, never takes birth again.

 

[Guruvani]

In Srimad Bhagavatam it clearly says that only the jivas who are partially cognizant can fall down. The eternal associates and devotees of Krishna are fully cognizant of Krishna and therefore they never fall down. There is no forgetting Krishna by his eternal servants.

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 2.6.21

 

 

And because the living entity is partially cognizant, he is therefore sometimes forgetful of his own identity. This forgetfulness is specifically manifested in the field of the ekapād-vibhūti of the Lord, or in the material world, but in the tripād-vibhūti field of actions, or in the spiritual world, there is no forgetfulness by the living entities, who are free from all kinds of contaminations resulting from the forgetful state of existence.

There is never any forgetfulness of Krishna for his cognizant eternal servants.

 

 

But in the field of knowledge, there is devotional service to the Lord (bhakti). Therefore there is no chance of being contaminated by the influence of nescience or forgetfulness (avidyā) in the liberated stage of devotional activities.

[Bhakta Devarsi]

 

The only way to 'fall down' into the dreams of Maha-Vishnu and enter that dark cloud in the Spiritual Sky which is one of the petals of the lotus flower in the Spiritual Sky, is by choosing to no longer be Krishna's servant. however, because ones perptual svarupa body in Goloka is eternally there in Goloka, one only falls down in a sub conscious dreaming state (nitya-baddha) to the mahat-tattva similar to how one dreams at night while sleeping in their present biological body.

 

Such 'dreams' are then provided ethereal and biological form, vessels or bodies by Maha-Vishnu so they can enter His dreams that are all perishable.

 

What remaims 'imperishable' beyond mundane material time and impermanance is ones perpetual Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha identity or body that every marginal living entity has had eternally without origin. One just has to wake up from their material dreams within Maha-Vishnu's mahat-tattva and realize this fact by again becoming Krishna Conscious

 

 

Prabhu, the choice to leave could only come from an eternal servant, Like Jaya and Vijaya, and that is not a fall down. It is a descent.

 

They may be under the influence of Yoga Maya when they arrive within Durga's Prison house, and exhibit the symptoms of demoniac lifestyle, but they are remembering the Lord quite often, in the mood of rebellion and envy.

 

Sometimes I think that many of the people who try to use Srila Prabhupada's teachings to whimsically convince people of concepts they are not ready to understand, may be nitya siddhas who are taking a demon lifetime and are just playing at being envious of Srila Prabhupada's ability to be a teacher to all.

 

If any person reads the Gita and Bhagavatam from beginning to end, and associates with other sincere and honest aspiring bhaktas, that person will figure out what his position was previously if he really needs to know.

 

Otherwise, the focus should be on sadhana to become more attached to devotional service so we can get liberated from the present condition.

 

That goes for the nitya siddhas too you know.

 

Sudarshan Prabhu says so.

 

Hare Krsna

[Guruvani]

Here in this purport Srila Prabhupada says that there is never any break in the devotional service of the pure devotees in the spiritual world. If there is NO BREAK in their service then how can they be forgetful of that and dreaming themselves as enjoyers of the material world?

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 2.9.10 purport

 

The marginal line between the material manifestation and the spiritual manifestation is the Virajā River, and beyond the Virajā, which is a transcendental current flowing from the perspiration of the body of the Lord, there is the three-fourths manifestation of God's creation. This part is eternal, everlasting, without deterioration, and unlimited, and it contains the highest perfectional stage of living conditions. In the Sāńkhya-kaumudī it is stated that unalloyed goodness or transcendence is just opposite to the material modes. All living entities there are eternally associated without any break, and the Lord is the chief and prime entity.

 

The marginal poteny of jiva souls is manifested in the Viraja - the marginal line between the material and spiritual worlds.

[Guruvani]

The fall-from-goloka theory proposes that there is a BREAK in the service of the pure devotees in Vaikuntha or Goloka while they choose to leave that service and become artificial Lords of the material world.

 

Srila Prabhupada says there is never any break in their service.

 

There cannot be any fall into illusion without a break in service.

[Guruvani]

 

 

We are all dreaming as our nitya-baddha secondary self within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu

Our authentic constitutional eternal self is nitya-siddha in Goloka

 

There in no such conception as a secondary self of the soul that has ever been mentioned in shastra or by any authorized acharya.

 

This concept is the manufactured theory of a conditioned soul who has no such right or authority to propose such bogus siddhanta.

 

Manufacturing false conceptions and trying to pass them off as authentic is an offense to the spiritual master.

[Guruvani]

 

Ravindra Svarup Prabhu –They know how one can fall from a place no one falls from,

Falling from a place no one falls from?

More ISKCON mythology that cannot be supported with shastra.

 

This message says that shastra contradicts itself.

There in no contradiction.

 

Jivas fall from the impersonal conception of Godhead, not from pure devotional service to the Lord in a loving relationship.

 

ISKCON gurus should learn the siddhanta before they come forward to be gurus of others.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

The most sensible words yet in this discussion are below. Of course, if we all focus on our sadhana, there won't be any time for these fun (if ultimately useless) debates!

 

 

Prabhu, the choice to leave could only come from an eternal servant, Like Jaya and Vijaya, and that is not a fall down. It is a descent.

 

They may be under the influence of Yoga Maya when they arrive within Durga's Prison house, and exhibit the symptoms of demoniac lifestyle, but they are remembering the Lord quite often, in the mood of rebellion and envy.

 

Sometimes I think that many of the people who try to use Srila Prabhupada's teachings to whimsically convince people of concepts they are not ready to understand, may be nitya siddhas who are taking a demon lifetime and are just playing at being envious of Srila Prabhupada's ability to be a teacher to all.

 

If any person reads the Gita and Bhagavatam from beginning to end, and associates with other sincere and honest aspiring bhaktas, that person will figure out what his position was previously if he really needs to know.

 

Otherwise, the focus should be on sadhana to become more attached to devotional service so we can get liberated from the present condition.

 

That goes for the nitya siddhas too you know.

 

Sudarshan Prabhu says so.

 

Hare Krsna

[theist]

 

Prabhu, the choice to leave could only come from an eternal servant, Like Jaya and Vijaya, and that is not a fall down. It is a descent.

Actually there is no choice to leave. That is misunderstanding of the situation. Such a weighing of options could only take place on a mundane intellectual level well where all cost benefit analysis takes place, in which case the subject is already fallen out of Goloka.

 

The fall idea hinges on a raw simple bare naked desire to experience life as the central enjoyer at which point one immediately begins his sojourn outside of his natural svarupa or rasa body. The same one he returns to when he reawakens to his svarupa.

 

The objection is, "no one sleeps or dreams in Goloka." Of course not. That is because when he reawakens he not only goes back to the same svarupa but also to the same moment because THERE IS NO PAST OR FUTURE IN THE SPIRITUAL WORLD.

 

This is the argument. Rather one chooses to accept this or not you should at least understand what you are disagreeing with.

[Guruvani]

 

 

The objection is, "no one sleeps or dreams in Goloka." Of course not. That is because when he reawakens he not only goes back to the same svarupa but also to the same moment because THERE IS NO PAST OR FUTURE IN THE SPIRITUAL WORLD.

 

That is the ISKCON myth that has never been taught by Srila Prabhupada or any other acharya or any shastra.

It is the ISKCON fairytale that has been floating around since the early days of ISKCON before the books were even translated.

 

More mythology without any shastric evidence to support it.

[theist]

Whatrever. The point is this is the agruement not that some souls are laying around Goloka taking a nap.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

More mythology without any shastric evidence to support it.

 

No amount of shastric evidence can convince the faithless.

[Guruvani]

Mahaprabhu made it clear that we are spirit sparks existing in the marginal realm between the material and spiritual worlds.

We are not in Goloka having a nightmare.

 

Lord Chaitanya said:

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 20.108-109 purport

 

 

There are two worlds — the spiritual world and the material world — and you are situated between the material and spiritual potencies.

.

 

 

 

You belong to Kṛṣṇa's marginal potency. There are two worlds — the spiritual world and the material world — and you are situated between the material and spiritual potencies. You have a relationship with both the material and the spiritual world; therefore you are called the marginal potency. You are related with Kṛṣṇa as one and simultaneously different. Because you are spirit soul, you are one in quality with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but because you are a very minute particle of spirit soul, you are different from the Supreme Soul. Therefore your position is simultaneously one with and different from the Supreme Soul. The examples given are those of the sun itself and the small particles of sunshine and of a blazing fire and the small particles of fire.

Mahaprabhu explained clearly that we are spirit sparks in the marginal tatastha between the material and spiritual worlds.

 

He never said that we are pure devotees in Goloka with a spiritual body dreaming that we are in the material world forgetting our spiritual forms.

 

This is the idea Mahaprabhu gave.

We are spirit sparks of the marginal quality.

Thats it.

No sleeping body in Goloka.

[Guruvani]

Here again Srila Prabhupada emphasizes that there is no such thing as forgetfulness of Krishna in the spiritual world.

Only the partially cognizant jivas who are not fully cognizant of the personal form of Krishna can be affected by the material energy.

 

 

And because the living entity is partially cognizant, he is therefore sometimes forgetful of his own identity. This forgetfulness is specifically manifested in the field of the ekapād-vibhūti of the Lord, or in the material world, but in the tripād-vibhūti field of actions, or in the spiritual world, there is no forgetfulness by the living entities, who are free from all kinds of contaminations resulting from the forgetful state of existence.

No forgetfulness of Krishna.

So, the theory that jivas forget Krishna in Goloka is not supported by Srila Prabhupada.

 

The fall-from-goloka fairytale can only be valid if there is forgetfulness of Krishna in the spiritual world.

 

This purport clearly says there is NO forgetfulness of Krishna in the spiritual world, but only in the material world can we not be cognizant of Krishna.

[Vigraha]

 

Actually there is no choice to leave. That is misunderstanding of the situation. Such a weighing of options could only take place on a mundane intellectual level well where all cost benefit analysis takes place, in which case the subject is already fallen out of Goloka.

 

The fall idea hinges on a raw simple bare naked desire to experience life as the central enjoyer at which point one immediately begins his sojourn outside of his natural svarupa or rasa body. The same one he returns to when he reawakens to his svarupa.

 

The objection is, "no one sleeps or dreams in Goloka." Of course not. That is because when he reawakens he not only goes back to the same svarupa but also to the same moment because THERE IS NO PAST OR FUTURE IN THE SPIRITUAL WORLD.

 

This is the argument. Rather one chooses to accept this or not you should at least understand what you are disagreeing with.

 

 

Theist many devotees have used the English words such as choice, option, preference, alternative, and selection to simply describe the free will that all marginal living entities have and given by Krishna in order for the marginal living entities to forever increase their love for Him - or miss use it for their own agenda .

Every marginal living entity, not only has an eternal ‘svarupa’ body perpetually protected and sheltered within Krishna’s past times beyond the concept of the mundane time and space within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu, but also can establish a secondary consciousness (nitya-baddha) manifested simply by self centered choices, options, preferences, alternatives and selections that are all words describing the free will that all marginal living entities have.

This ability of free will also mean one has a choice, or as you say-

 

“The fall idea hinges on a raw simple bare naked desire to experience life as the central enjoyer at which point one immediately begins his sojourn outside of his natural svarupa or rasa body. The same one he returns to when he reawakens to his svarupa”.

Sojourning away from ones ‘svarupa’ body is called the nitya-baddha bodiless consciousness, which is ones non Krishna conscious thoughts, dreams and desires. Such selfish emotions can only temporarily exist 'embodied or housed' within the mahat-tattva, or Maha-Vishnu's creations of ethereal and biological vessels or containers that are ornaments and features, or parts and parcels of His mahat-tattva.

 

What makes this difficult to understand, is from ones ‘svarupa’ bodily point of few, one actually never left Goloka because of the imperishable nature of Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha, that is perpetually beyond what we call 'time', which really means impermenance. Srila Prabhupada has told us – ‘ actually no one leaves Goloka, they only ‘think’ they do’

In other words every living entity (marginal potency) has an original perpetual devotional bodily form that is eternally serving Krishna in unlimited pastimes within either Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha, even if they have temporarily entered the mahat-tattva as a non Krishna conscious hallucination, dream, thought or desire (nitya-baddha) state

Also the correct understanding of the living entities is All of Krishna’s marginal ‘sparks’ have the same (yet individual) perpetual bodily features like Krishna – sat-cit-ananda-vigraha.

The marginal potency or sparks emanating from the whole categorically means individual bodily personalities emanating and surrounding Krishna’s Personal bodily form that IS their eternal 'svarupa' without beginning or end. Although ones 'rasa' (relationship) with Krishna can change in the Goloka or Vaikuntha.

The marginal living entities connection to Krishna is compared to a fire (Krishna) from whence those individual sparks (marginal bodily living entities) come from. Another comparison is the Sun (Krishna) from whence the Sunrays (marginal bodily living entities) emanate and perpetually surround Krishna however, these analogies are only metaphors, allegories, figures of speech. Krishna is certainly not a blazing fire or a bright Sun in His Ultimate Bodily Form and neither are the marginal bodily individuals impersonal sparks emanating from that blazing fire or Sun in their full potential.

Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is often referred to as the energetic, while His marginal servants are known as the marginal bodily personalities in their original position that has no origin however, in both cases the original and ultimate appearance of both Krishna (energetic) and His marginal potency (energies) are ORIGINALY individual bodily Krishna Conscious personalities.

The Master (Krishna) and the servant (marginal individuals in their full expression and constitution) are called nitya-siddha svarupa eternal devotees of Krishna. In this way ALL living entities serve Krishna in an atmosphere beyond the mundane mahat-tattva time and space within the perpetual Goloka realm.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Perhaps it's just my offensive nature, but, these ramblings, despite being about the Supreme Lord and His associates, end up sounding to me like a fly buzzing in the ear.

 

There's no nectar here. Just dry mental exercise.

 

Buzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................

 

 

Theist many devotees have used the English words such as choice, option, preference, alternative, and selection to simply describe the free will that all marginal living entities have and given by Krishna in order for the marginal living entities to forever increase their love for Him - or miss use it for their own agenda .

Every marginal living entity, not only has an eternal ‘svarupa’ body perpetually protected and sheltered within Krishna’s past times beyond the concept of the mundane time and space within the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu, but also can establish a secondary consciousness (nitya-baddha) manifested simply by self centered choices, options, preferences, alternatives and selections that are all words describing the free will that all marginal living entities have.

This ability of free will also mean one has a choice, or as you say-

 

“The fall idea hinges on a raw simple bare naked desire to experience life as the central enjoyer at which point one immediately begins his sojourn outside of his natural svarupa or rasa body. The same one he returns to when he reawakens to his svarupa”.

Sojourning away from ones ‘svarupa’ body is called the nitya-baddha bodiless consciousness, which is ones non Krishna conscious thoughts, dreams and desires. Such selfish emotions can only temporarily exist 'embodied or housed' within the mahat-tattva, or Maha-Vishnu's creations of ethereal and biological vessels or containers that are ornaments and features, or parts and parcels of His mahat-tattva.

 

What makes this difficult to understand, is from ones ‘svarupa’ bodily point of few, one actually never left Goloka because of the imperishable nature of Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha, that is perpetually beyond what we call 'time', which really means impermenance. Srila Prabhupada has told us – ‘ actually no one leaves Goloka, they only ‘think’ they do’

In other words every living entity (marginal potency) has an original perpetual devotional bodily form that is eternally serving Krishna in unlimited pastimes within either Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha, even if they have temporarily entered the mahat-tattva as a non Krishna conscious hallucination, dream, thought or desire (nitya-baddha) state

Also the correct understanding of the living entities is All of Krishna’s marginal ‘sparks’ have the same (yet individual) perpetual bodily features like Krishna – sat-cit-ananda-vigraha.

The marginal potency or sparks emanating from the whole categorically means individual bodily personalities emanating and surrounding Krishna’s Personal bodily form that IS their eternal 'svarupa' without beginning or end. Although ones 'rasa' (relationship) with Krishna can change in the Goloka or Vaikuntha.

The marginal living entities connection to Krishna is compared to a fire (Krishna) from whence those individual sparks (marginal bodily living entities) come from. Another comparison is the Sun (Krishna) from whence the Sunrays (marginal bodily living entities) emanate and perpetually surround Krishna however, these analogies are only metaphors, allegories, figures of speech. Krishna is certainly not a blazing fire or a bright Sun in His Ultimate Bodily Form and neither are the marginal bodily individuals impersonal sparks emanating from that blazing fire or Sun in their full potential.

Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is often referred to as the energetic, while His marginal servants are known as the marginal bodily personalities in their original position that has no origin however, in both cases the original and ultimate appearance of both Krishna (energetic) and His marginal potency (energies) are ORIGINALY individual bodily Krishna Conscious personalities.

The Master (Krishna) and the servant (marginal individuals in their full expression and constitution) are called nitya-siddha svarupa eternal devotees of Krishna. In this way ALL living entities serve Krishna in an atmosphere beyond the mundane mahat-tattva time and space within the perpetual Goloka realm.

[Guruvani]

The assertion in his theory is that the associates of Radha and Krishna are marginal potency.

This of course proves that the author of this rubbish knows nothing about the internal potency of Krishna.

None of the associates or devotees of the Lord in the spiritual world are marginal potency.

 

I would post some proof but I am not wasting my material on this bogus topic.

 

The marginal jivas are manifested in the Viraja.

Otherwise, there is no meaning to marginal.

 

The concept that the pure devotees of Goloka are marginal energy is simply laughable as the author of this rubbish who hides his real indentity make bogus propaganda meant to defend and prop-up Drutakarma das's useless book.

[Vigraha]

Whatrever. The point is this is the agruement not that some souls are laying around Goloka taking a nap.

[Guruvani]

Srila Prabhupada says here that souls fall down from the brahmajyoti because they are just spirit sparks without a spiritual body.

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 4.24.34 purport,

 

 

In other words, the individual soul, although within the illumination of the Supreme, sometimes falls down from that illumination because of his tiny position, and when he falls down he enters into material, conditional life.

[Guruvani]

The fall-from-goloka theory is based on the premise that nitya-siddhas somehow become nitya-baddhas.

The fall-from-goloka theory attempts to nullify the meaning of nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha both.

Srila Prabhupada says that the nitya-siddhas NEVER come in contact with the material energy.

So, if a nitya-siddha falls down and becomes under the illusion of maya then there is no such thing as nitya-siddha.

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 4.24.61 purport,

 

The eternally free living entities are called nitya-mukta, for they never come in contact with the material energy.

So, the fall-from-goloka people are saying that actually these nitya-siddhas actually do come in contact with the material energy.

 

As such, their philosophy is based upon a false theory that is rejected by shastra.