Interesting Question!!!

[kiranasa]

There are 32 main offenses in Deity worship that one must avoid them, and in Nectar of devotion A.C. Bhaktivedanta has translated all of them like everyone else, except the offense number 29, which it says:

(29) One should not offer obeisances silently to the spiritual master, or in other words, one should recite aloud the prayers to the spiritual master while offering obeisances. (NoD 8: Offenses to Be Avoided)

But in Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu-bindu, page 115, Narayana maharaj has translated the same offense as follow:

(29) to offer obeisances or salutation to others in front of the deity.

And in this site: http://www.salagram.net/sstp-kshamas.html under section: OFFENCES TO BE AVOIDED, offenses number 21 and 29 are:

21) To worship someone else before the Deity.

29) To offer obeisances to someone else in front of the Deity.

And in Caitanya-caritamrta by A.C. Bhaktivedanta we can find:

According to the rules and regulations, no one should accept obeisances in the temple of the Lord before the Deity. Nor is it proper for a devotee to offer obeisances and touch the feet of the spiritual master before the Deity. This is considered an offense. (CC Madhya 12.127)

And in Srimad-Bhagavatam by A.C. Bhaktivedanta regarding the offenses to be avoided we can find:

(u) to worship someone else before the Deity, ....... (cc) to offer obeisances to someone else in front of the Deity. (SB 7.5.23-24)

Now, the question is:

How Iskcon devotees expect to get Krsna Prema while offending the Deities, EVERY DAY???

OR

What kind of ""acarya"" will changes the real meaning of Sastra for his own glorification???

[Guruvani]

 

There are 32 main offenses in Deity worship that one must avoid them, and in Nectar of devotion A.C. Bhaktivedanta has translated all of them like everyone else, except the offense number 29, which it says:

(29) One should not offer obeisances silently to the spiritual master, or in other words, one should recite aloud the prayers to the spiritual master while offering obeisances. (NoD 8: Offenses to Be Avoided)

But in Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu-bindu, page 115, Narayana maharaj has translated the same offense as follow:

(29) to offer obeisances or salutation to others in front of the deity.

And in this site: http://www.salagram.net/sstp-kshamas.html under section: OFFENCES TO BE AVOIDED, offenses number 21 and 29 are:

21) To worship someone else before the Deity.

29) To offer obeisances to someone else in front of the Deity.

And in Caitanya-caritamrta by A.C. Bhaktivedanta we can find:

According to the rules and regulations, no one should accept obeisances in the temple of the Lord before the Deity. Nor is it proper for a devotee to offer obeisances and touch the feet of the spiritual master before the Deity. This is considered an offense. (CC Madhya 12.127)

And in Srimad-Bhagavatam by A.C. Bhaktivedanta regarding the offenses to be avoided we can find:

(u) to worship someone else before the Deity, ....... (cc) to offer obeisances to someone else in front of the Deity. (SB 7.5.23-24)

Now, the question is:

How Iskcon devotees expect to get Krsna Prema while offending the Deities, EVERY DAY???

OR

What kind of ""acarya"" will changes the real meaning of Sastra for his own glorification???

 

Sounds like a follower of Narayana Maharaja is accusing Srila Prabhupada of seeking his own glorification and encouraging his followers to commit offenses in front of the deities by establishing a precedent of guru-puja in front of the deities.

 

Maybe shaktyavesha avatars are eligible for courtesies that vaidhi-bhaktas like Narayana Maharaja cannot accept without offense?

 

Since the spiritual master is the representative of Krishna, worshiping him in front of the deity is not "worshiping someone else".

 

That stricture applies to demigods and ordinary deities.

 

There is nothing wrong with worshiping Krishna's representative in front of the deity.

 

In fact, Krishna is much delighted by such an act.

 

The acharya is not "someone else".

 

He is the external manifestation of the Supersoul and Krishna.

 

One should not worship demigods in front of the deity.

It is quite fine to worship Krishna's representative in front of Krishna.

[Guruvani]

So, the question really is how can the followers of Narayana Maharaja ever attain Krishna-prema if they commit offenses against Krishna's representative and accuse him of heinous offenses?

clue: they can't.

[theist]

Haven't been to a temple in years. But if memory serves me right were not the doors to the Deities always closed for guru puja?

 

Damn pesky mosquitos.

[Kulapavana]

 

Haven't been to a temple in years. But if memory serves me right were not the doors to the Deities always closed for guru puja?

 

No, they are not. They are closed for Tulasi Puja.

 

One can certainly question why Prabhupada introduced daily guru puja and allowed it to be performed in front of the Deities but it needs to be a humble inquiry, not an accusation and jumping to conclusions.

 

Personally I think it was a move to secure his position as there were quite a few open and covert challenges to his place in Iskcon. But I do not believe that it should continue in the present form. Especially doing the puja in front of the Deities as it is unprecedented and clearly goes against scriptural injunctions. If we close the curtains for Tulasi puja we should close the curtains for the guru puja. And the memory of 11 vyasasans and 11 gurupujas performed in front of the Deities in Sridhama Mayapur should serve as a warning as well.

[suchandra]

 

How Iskcon devotees expect to get Krsna Prema while offending the Deities, EVERY DAY???

OR

What kind of ""acarya"" will change the real meaning of Sastra for his own glorification???

This was of course also never admitted by the executive office 5000 years ago, but was detected only by the Lord Himself, "it was detected by the Lord Himself that the disciplic succession was broken."

 

"As soon as the original purpose was scattered by the motives of the unscrupulous commentators, there arose the need to reestablish the disciplic succession. Five thousand years ago it was detected by the Lord Himself that the disciplic succession was broken, and therefore He declared that the purpose of the Gita appeared to be lost. In the same way, at the present moment also there are so many editions of the Gita (especially in English), but almost all of them are not according to authorized disciplic succession. There are innumerable interpretations rendered by different mundane scholars, but almost all of them do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, although they make a good business on the words of Sri Krsna. This spirit is demonic, because demons do not believe in God but simply enjoy the property of the Supreme. Since there is a great need of an edition of the Gita in English, as it is received by the parampara (disciplic succession) system, an attempt is made herewith to fulfill this great want. Bhagavad-gita--accepted as it is--is a great boon to humanity; but if it is accepted as a treatise of philosophical speculations, it is simply a waste of time."

 

[srila Prabhupada from Bhagavad-gita As It Is 4.2]

[theist]

.

[kiranasa]

 

One can certainly question why Prabhupada introduced daily guru puja and allowed it to be performed in front of the Deities.

 

It is not Iskcon devotees' fault, they are just following what they have been TAUGHT!!! They don't really know even what they are doing!!!

The REAL problem is the ROOT!!!

[Kulapavana]

 

It is not Iskcon devotees' fault, they are just following what they have been TAUGHT!!! They don't really know even what they are doing!!! <?xml:namespace prefix = o />

The REAL problem is the ROOT!!!

 

The vast majority of Srila Prabhupada's instructions follow the shastra and tradition of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. One ore two instructions may be somewhat controversial but I would not jump to conclusions if I were you. SP was obviously a very empowered teacher and a true Vaishnava of the highest caliber.

 

Unfortunately the GV tradition has become almost obsessively guru-centric, where guru's instructions cannot be questioned and always trump the scriptural injunctions. It is not just the problem of one sanga - it is very visible outside Iskcon as well.

[Guruvani]

 

 

Unfortunately the GV tradition has become almost obsessively guru-centric, where guru's instructions cannot be questioned and always trump the scriptural injunctions. It is not just the problem of one sanga - it is very visible outside Iskcon as well.

A good example of that is the class of devotees who ignore shastra and suppose that the letters of Srila Prabhupada are somehow higher and more authoritative than shastra.

 

Srila Prabhupada would be agast at devotees trying to undermine shastric siddhanta with the pablum siddhanta he sometimes taught struggling neophytes that were writting him and showing confusion and doubt.

 

To try and salvage these confused disciples from the depths of maya, Srila Prabhupada offered them some remedial measures and watered things down a little to help them along with the hopes that maybe someday they could accept higher siddhanta.

 

Now, there is a class of devotees who want to take these letters and trump shastra as if these letters to some stuggling neophytes are on a higher platform than Srimad Bhagavatam or CC.

 

It's quite disconcerting to see how these letters of Srila Prabhupada are being abused to postulate bogus siddhanta that contradicts the shastra and all the predecessor acharyas including Srila Jiva Goswami.

 

A lot of the propaganda is just an attempt defend the GBC and ISKCON gurus who have been teaching sub-siddhanta for the last 30 years.

[theist]

Why can't other disciples of NM be more like suchandra. This kiranasa is an offensive character I don't wish to hear any more from.

 

Thank the cyber gods for the option to blank certain peoples posts.