Marginal energy becomes internal energy

[Guruvani]

 

I have not completed my curriculum fully, just love to ride my intuition, and please forgive me if I slip into speculation.

 

Hari Bol

Me and you both.

I am not a finished professor by any stretch of the imagination.

Actually, I am learning new things all the time as I study and research these matters following my basic instinct about how the spiritual potency of Krishna is manifested in phases and different conditions.

 

Madhavananda das has referred to my approach as ad-hoc.

Well, for the most part he is correct.

I am winging-it on Vedabase research and search.

 

One thing I do know for sure is that I don't agree with the sleepervadi fall-from-goloka theorists who appear on this forum and more-or-less espouse the official ISKCON position which I am at odds with.

 

The sleepervadi on this forum is probably just an ISKCON cronie who is not actually even serving in ISKCON, but his views do echo the official ISKCON position of the GBC and most of the gurus.

 

So, I am challenging the conventional wisdom of ISKCON.

I think there are some fairytales and myths that have taken on a life of their own outside and independent of the actual teachings in the books of Srila Prabhupada.

 

None of the Gaudiya Matha acharyas or acharyas and disciples of classic Gaudiya parivars promote or accept the sleepervadi theory.

 

It is an ISKCON anomaly that really needs to be corrected if ISKCON is to ever be respected as a genuine Gaudiya parivar.

[Sarva gattah]

Finally someone has understood that our 'svarupa body’ is eternally in Goloka or Vaikuntha and cannot be tatastha; I enjoyed reading jappa Jims understanding of Shastra, very interesting points For emphasis I will repeat:

 

jappa Jim - “You belong to Krishna’s marginal potency. There are two worlds — the spiritual world and the material world — and you are situated between the material and spiritual potencies. You have a relationship with both the material and the spiritual world; therefore you are called the marginal potency.”

 

The liberated nitya-siddha devotees of Krishna in Goloka are not between the material and spiritual potencies.

 

They are manifested in Vrindavan via hladini-shakti as consorts or sandhini-shakti in the other rasas with Krishna.

 

jappa Jim - Tatastha-shakti is the jiva who is exposed to the material energy with the potential to transfer to the spiritual internal energy. The pure devotees of Krishna in Goloka are not in that situation.

 

comment - It must be pointed out clearly that the living entity is always marginal because of the ability to stay in Goloka or go to the mahat-tattva. Marginal also means the ability to choose as Srila Prabhupada explains. Also jiva-tattva can never become Vishnu tattva, such an idea is impersonalism.

Akruranatha has also made comments that all the gopis and cowherd boys cannot fall down from Goloka, that is true but what does fall down really mean? The answer is their nitya-siddha bodies are eternally in Goloka but some, who are marginal energy , can, and do sometimes fall down in a sub-conscious non-Krishna dream state, but never as their nitya-siddha body. Many residents of Goloka are Vishnu-tattva and yes, they can never fall down in anyway however, all jiva-tattva’s can fall down from their own nitya-siddha body that eternally serves Krishna, even from Goloka.

‘Even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what to speak of this material world? Because in the Vaikuntha or in the spiritual world, no contaminated soul can stay there. He will fall down. Srila Prabhupada Bhag.-gita class, Honolulu: July 4, 1974)

 

comment - When one again begins to becomes fully Krishna Conscious, their nitya-baddha transformation in the material creation begins to dissipate and one’s genuine conscious awareness returns back to their unadulterated authentic svarupa bodily identity. In this way the insignificant dreaming nitya-baddha aspect of their marginal identity will dissolve and be as if it never was, or that one never left Goloka or Vaikuntha in the first place. Srila Prabhupada confirms this

 

‘This imaginary experience of a world separate from Krishna can be compared to the acts of dreaming and desiring. When the conditioned soul dreams at night of something desirable or horrible, or when he daydreams of what he would like to have or avoid, he creates a reality that has no existence beyond his own imagination" (Bhag.11.2.38)

 

comment - In this way the inferior nitya-baddha consciousness is dispelled as the awareness of the marginal living entities full bodily potential once again takes up there eternal superior nitya-siddha residents and bodily position in Krishna Lila.

 

It is obvious there are innumerable expansions of Krishna (energetic) who are not marginal but are direct expansions of Krishna acting out in different rasa’s. They include Radha, Balarama. Lord Caitanya (the combination of Radha and Krishna) Narayana, Siva, Luxmi. Everyone in the Panca tattva except Narada muni (he is jiva-tattva etc

 

NOTE - comment means me

[Guruvani]

Mahaprabhu explained to Srila Rupa Goswami that the 'svarupa" of the jiva is a spark of life that is 1/10,000th the size the tip of a hair.

He does not mention any spiritual body in Goloka.

In the absolute realm the spiritual bodies of the devotees of Krishna are not different from their souls.

Just as Krishna is non-different from his body or we could say is the body, the liberated pure devotees of Krishna in Goloka are not spirit sparks rather spiritual forms as gopis, gopas etc.

So, the claim that the baddha-jivas of the material world have a spiritual body in Goloka already is not correct.

That spiritual body is the manifestation of hladini and sandhini shakti which is awarded by Krishna via his internal potency.

Spirit sparks are simply that - spirit sparks.

There is no spiritual form in Goloka which they have forgotten about.

In comparison to the mayavadi theory that the jiva becomes formless and becomes wholly one with the absolute brahman, the Vaishnava philosophy explains that the jiva has the form as a spirit spark and will continue to be an individual living being even after liberation.

 

Mahaprabhu says quite plainly that the "svarupa" of the jiva is as a spirit spark.

 

 

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 19.139

 

keśāgra-śateka-bhāga punaḥ śatāḿśa kari

tāra sama sūkṣma jīvera 'svarūpa' vicāri

 

SYNONYMS

keśa-agra — from the tip of a hair; śata-eka — one hundred; bhāga — divisions; punaḥ — again; śata-aḿśa — one hundred divisions; kari — making; tāra sama — equal to that; sūkṣma — very fine; jīvera — of the living entity; svarūpa — the actual form; vicāri — I consider.

 

TRANSLATION

"The length and breadth of the living entity is described as one ten-thousandth part of the tip of a hair. This is the original subtle nature of the living entity.

 

So, Mahaprabhu Sri Caitanya never taught that the jiva has a spiritual body in Goloka which the jiva has forgotten about.

He says that the "svarupa" of the jiva is simply as a spirit spark.

 

Anything beyond that is a fabrication.

We call it the ISKCON "fairytale".

[Sarva gattah]

There are many places in shastra that explains svarupa means out bodily form in Goloka

The Sanskrit word Svarupa is explained by Srila Prabhupada - “Svarupa, or “one’s own form.” Purport Bhagavad-Gita as it is 4.6

The word svarūpa-sthaḥ is also very significant. The real identity of the individual soul lies in understanding or attaining the knowledge that he is eternally a servant of Kṛṣṇa.

This understanding is called svarūp opalabdhi. By culturing devotional service, the devotee gradually comes to understand his actual relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This understanding of one's pure spiritual position is called svarūpopalabdhi, and when one attains that stage he can understand how he is related with the Supreme Personality of Godhead as a servant or friend or as a parent or conjugal lover. This stage of understanding is called svarūpa-sthah. Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 4.23.18

svarūpa-sthah means being situated in one's constitutional position

svarūpa — original form Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 2.6

And what is that form?

But with the eyes of love of Godhead one can see its real identity (svarūpa-prakāśa — manifestation of identity) as the place where Lord Krishna performs His pastimes with the cowherd boys and cowherd girls.Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 5.21

"These are the principal manifestations and expansions of the Personality of Godhead and His three energies. They are all emanations from Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Transcendence. They have their existence in Him.Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 2.104

svarūpa-gaṇa — means personal forms and not sparks or atoms in some effulgence

It must be pointed out clearly that the living entity is always marginal because of the ability to stay in Goloka or go to the mahat-tattva. Marginal also means the ability to choose as Srila Prabhupada explains. Also jiva-tattva can never become Vishnu tattva, such an idea is impersonalism.

Akruranatha has also made comments that all the gopis and cowherd boys cannot fall down from Goloka, that is true but what does fall down really mean? The answer is their nitya-siddha bodies are eternally in Goloka but some, who are marginal energy , can, and do sometimes fall down in a sub-conscious non-Krishna dream state, but never as their nitya-siddha body. Many residents of Goloka are Vishnu-tattva and yes, they can never fall down in anyway however, all jiva-tattva’s can fall down from their own nitya-siddha body that eternally serves Krishna, even from Goloka.

‘Even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what to speak of this material world? Because in the Vaikuntha or in the spiritual world, no contaminated soul can stay there. He will fall down. Srila Prabhupada Bhag.-gita class, Honolulu: July 4, 1974)

comment - When one again begins to becomes fully Krishna Conscious, their nitya-baddha transformation in the material creation begins to dissipate and one’s genuine conscious awareness returns back to their unadulterated authentic svarupa bodily identity. In this way the insignificant dreaming nitya-baddha aspect of their marginal identity will dissolve and be as if it never was, or that one never left Goloka or Vaikuntha in the first place. Srila Prabhupada confirms this

‘This imaginary experience of a world separate from Krishna can be compared to the acts of dreaming and desiring. When the conditioned soul dreams at night of something desirable or horrible, or when he daydreams of what he would like to have or avoid, he creates a reality that has no existence beyond his own imagination" (Bhag.11.2.38)

comment - In this way the inferior nitya-baddha consciousness is dispelled as the awareness of the marginal living entities full bodily potential once again takes up there eternal superior nitya-siddha residents and bodily position in Krishna Lila.

It is obvious there are innumerable expansions of Krishna (energetic) who are not marginal but are direct expansions of Krishna acting out in different rasa’s. They include Radha, Balarama. Lord Caitanya (the combination of Radha and Krishna) Narayana, Siva, Luxmi. Everyone in the Panca tattva except Narada muni (he is jiva-tattva etc

[kiranasa]

Otherwise it is a fact that no one falls from Vaikuntha. SB 7.1.35 PURPORT

The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. SB 3.16.26 PURPORT

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes that the reason why some jivas become bound is the proper use or misuse of their natural independence. This does not include the nitya-mukta jivas, who have no contact with maya and thus have no scope to misuse their natural independence. From these statements it is explicit that no one falls from Vaikuntha, because these jivas originating from Maha-Visnu have never been in the nitya-lila in the spiritual sky, because Maha-Visnu is situated in the Viraja river. (Jaiva-dharma Leaves, pp. 8-9)