offense and doubt

[mahak]

I copy this here because the other thread may be deleted. If not, Ill erase this duplication:

 

Haribol. Doubts crop up all the time. One who is greatly immature spouts these doubts all over the place, showing utter foolishness. They usually decry the devotee, finding fault where there is none. The writer here may not be an offender, because he obviously has no grasp at all on what is being taught in shastra and by the Acarya. But his comments are a demonstration of utter ignorance and obvious flaws in whatever understanding he may possess. To me, he dont sound offensive, he sounds stupid.

 

There are all types of doubts displayed on forums that decry the devotee. We read about him promoting fairy tales, we read about how he has no grasp of scientific versions of physical world. We read about how he patronizes and caters to various religious folks in order to increase his discipleship. Its not offensive, kanistha adhikaris cannot do aparadha, because their highest devotional practice is full of offense.

 

The writer has come up with what he thinks is a contradiction, a point where Srila Prabhupada notes acceptance of worship in front of the deities is offensive, yet seems to break his own rules by accepting guru puja in front of the deities. Well, if one doesnt understand guru tattwa, he should never comment so stupidly. But this also is a common discussion here, this acceptance of worship by a guru. That one should display his ignorance on the subject clearly like this dude is the only thing that makes us cry "Ban Him!"

 

Guru tattwa means that the devotee isw servant, never4 doing anything on his own behalf. Srila Prabhupada has never accepted any worship of himself. not one iota. He represents Krsna. Guru Tattwa means Lord Nityananda and his fully empowered representative, a personal expansion. Is the worship of Lord Nityananda banned in front of the deities? Well, maybe one should ask Romaraharsana, the real failure of the test of actual acarya. He thought Balarama was not worth him getting out of his chair, now hes dead, slain by a blade of grass.

 

Its like all these other useless discussions about how lame and second class my guru maharaja, Srila Prtabhupada, is. You dont know that Krsna absorbs contradictions, that Krsna can pass elephants thru eyes of needles. Dont worship anyone other than God in His temple. Okay, what is God, dude? If you dont know that the term "God" is also his name, his pastimes, his paraphenalia, (which includes his devotee associates and his empowered representatives), then shut the ---- up. If you have doubts, this is because you are lame and ignorant. What, you want Sreila Prabhupada to surrender to your lotus feet? Like all the other forum drivel that demands that Srila Prabhupada understand things the way we do, that which we refuse to give up?

Not offensive, just utterly stupid. Like my ancestor Chief Joseph said to the euro-killer-liar, "You are not worth hearing anymore."

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[gHari]

 

"----"

My sentiments exactly. ----!

[cbrahma]

Note how much approval there is to the questioning of the pure devotee acarya.

[mahak]

Of course there is approval, and there is not only nothing wrong with that, Srila Prabhupada requires such. He makes this clear in the second chapter of Science of Self Realization.

 

Actually, Srila Prabhupada's excellent phrase is all encompassing, "submissive inquiry." Inquiry is what is required to give up the fanaticism of blind faith, submissive is what is required to break our puffed up idea that we have all the answers (like the idiots who take phrases out of context to try to show that Srila Prabhupada is contradictory, pandering, falsly motivated, etc.)

 

So, submissive inquiry is required, and though the phrase itself may seem to some to be oxymoronic, it is the perfect method of gaining the association of the acarya. But alas, it has become quite fashionable to say we should just accept without question, especially when the whole of Srimad Bhagavatam is questioning to remove doubts by very submissive individuals we should emul;ate at all times, persons like Vidura who submissively inquires from Maitreya Muni, like Srila Vyasadeva who is all but given up in frustration when he submissively inquires from Srila Narada Muni. Or even like Arjuna who pronounces, "Im outta here, I aint fightin these guys".

 

No, we never accept the pure devotee acarya without questioning him, actually putting him to the supreme test to correctly establish his authority.

 

The problem is that some have no intention of accepting any guidance whatsoever. This is not doubt, this is extreme arrogance, the main ingredient of never even being able to utter the holy names because of such offensive behavior. Such questioning is wasting the time of both the eternally damned demon asking and the acarya who has to suffer such demoniac presence. Srila Prabhupada never suffered fools, I seen him once banish some fool who asked stupid questions. The funny thing about this is the dude asked many stupid questions, then asked an apparent good one. When he asked the good question, Srila Prabhupada told him to be silent, then allowed some ksatriya types to escort the dude out the door. The good question didnt fit in with the dudes attitude, his obvious intent at disruption and the impossibility for the dude to be submissive enough to accept any guidance in spiritual life. Thats my guru maharaja, soft as Gopala, but with a Nrsimha-like bite when needed.

 

Its not the question, its not the doubt, its all in the attitude. As demonstrated by the idiot who inspired this thread.

 

mahaksadasa

[theist]

 

There are all types of doubts displayed on forums that decry the devotee. We read about him promoting fairy tales, we read about how he has no grasp of scientific versions of physical world. We read about how he patronizes and caters to various religious folks in order to increase his discipleship. Its not offensive, kanistha adhikaris cannot do aparadha, because their highest devotional practice is full of offense.we read about how he has no grasp of scientific versions of physical world.

 

Since when does a lover of Krsna have to possess knowledge of physical sciences? And since when is it "decrying a devotee" not to accept everything a devotee says about physical science?

 

Since I am one who questions these things I take this swipe personally. Now I never claim any benefits of being Srila Prabhupada's disciple and therefore I claim the right to question everything as I see fit. What is offefsive are those that claim discipleship but who neither chant their prescriberd rounds or follow the four regs.That is easy to back up from Srila Prabhupada's words himself.

 

Can you back up your statement that questioning the devotee on points of physicle science is "decrying him"? Please show me where you got this idea.

[mahak]

not a personal attack. But it is a fact that when one looks at even scientific things in another way, equal TRUTH is there. Science is relative, therefore not absolute, always changing. Srila Prabhupada named the chapter of bhagavatam "Answers by citing the Lord's Version", and since srila Prabhupada is also srimad bhagavatam, his science is jusat fine with me personally.

 

If you read my post, I also concur with the disciples right to question Srila Prabhupada and others who may be in a position to be siksa or diksa, not just right, but duty. If anything, I was blasting those who refuse to even consider his viewpoints. Like those who vehemently rejected him after his moon comments. If you take this personally, this is your problem, but I wasnt thinking of you when I wrote it, I was thinking of an unreasonable jerk who burned all srila prabhupadas books because he did not agree that we went to the moon. You dont do that, do you?

 

Problem is, when one gets into these issues, read the other threads. There isnt just mild doubt, mild disagreement with his version, there is very serious decrying going on. Read the posts on these subjects, the ones four or five pages long. Some come off like Srila Prabhupada needs some scientific knowledge, some seriously criticize him for even making succh statements, some say he says these and other things just to try to pander to special groups.

 

I just prefer to accept, not blindly, because I have put these ANSWERS to the test, and they work out just fine. But even the new age physicists, the real scientists of tomorrow (like Our own Cremo, for instance), acknowledge that nothing can be gained working from the paradigm of the 19th and 20th century. Unless we view things without being affected by bad foundational science, no answers will be sufficient.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

PS this aint a moon topic.

[theist]

 

I just prefer to accept, not blindly, because I have put these ANSWERS to the test, and they work out just fine.

 

You are qualified to put these things to the test? Please explain what that testing consisted of.

 

 

If you take this personally, this is your problem, but I wasnt thinking of you when I wrote it, I was thinking of an unreasonable jerk who burned all srila prabhupadas books because he did not agree that we went to the moon. You dont do that, do you?

 

Not worthy of a response.

[cbrahma]

 

Of course there is approval, and there is not only nothing wrong with that, Srila Prabhupada requires such. He makes this clear in the second chapter of Science of Self Realization.

 

Actually, Srila Prabhupada's excellent phrase is all encompassing, "submissive inquiry." Inquiry is what is required to give up the fanaticism of blind faith, submissive is what is required to break our puffed up idea that we have all the answers (like the idiots who take phrases out of context to try to show that Srila Prabhupada is contradictory, pandering, falsly motivated, etc.)

 

So, submissive inquiry is required, and though the phrase itself may seem to some to be oxymoronic, it is the perfect method of gaining the association of the acarya. But alas, it has become quite fashionable to say we should just accept without question, especially when the whole of Srimad Bhagavatam is questioning to remove doubts by very submissive individuals we should emul;ate at all times, persons like Vidura who submissively inquires from Maitreya Muni, like Srila Vyasadeva who is all but given up in frustration when he submissively inquires from Srila Narada Muni. Or even like Arjuna who pronounces, "Im outta here, I aint fightin these guys".

 

No, we never accept the pure devotee acarya without questioning him, actually putting him to the supreme test to correctly establish his authority.

 

The problem is that some have no intention of accepting any guidance whatsoever. This is not doubt, this is extreme arrogance, the main ingredient of never even being able to utter the holy names because of such offensive behavior. Such questioning is wasting the time of both the eternally damned demon asking and the acarya who has to suffer such demoniac presence. Srila Prabhupada never suffered fools, I seen him once banish some fool who asked stupid questions. The funny thing about this is the dude asked many stupid questions, then asked an apparent good one. When he asked the good question, Srila Prabhupada told him to be silent, then allowed some ksatriya types to escort the dude out the door. The good question didnt fit in with the dudes attitude, his obvious intent at disruption and the impossibility for the dude to be submissive enough to accept any guidance in spiritual life. Thats my guru maharaja, soft as Gopala, but with a Nrsimha-like bite when needed.

 

Its not the question, its not the doubt, its all in the attitude. As demonstrated by the idiot who inspired this thread.

 

mahaksadasa

Perhaps 'looking to discredit' is more to the point than questioning.

[theist]

 

Perhaps 'looking to discredit' is more to the point than questioning.

This is called hitting the nail on the head. Spot on.