Words of an Evil Man???

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Interesting, to be sure, but you evade the question. What specifically in the comments of the President is counter to Vaishnava conception?

 

 

During Ramadan I've taken the opportunity to engage Islam in dialog about God. They are more receptive then. I've yet to meet one who knows that God is a person. When I suggest that God is a person I fear for my life for the hatred is not far below the surface.

[krsna]

 

Interesting, to be sure, but you evade the question. What specifically in the comments of the President is counter to Vaishnava conception?

 

Perhaps the following article will be useful in understanding 'the words of an evil man' :

 

 

 

 

 

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<!-- To change picture from left to right, change "TopicImgLeft" to "TopicImgRight" -->By Amil Imani

 

 

To understand Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's mindset and behavior require close scrutiny of the elaborate and intricate theology of Hujetieh Shiism, perhaps the most fundamentalist of the numerous Shiite sects.

In the 1950s, a group of Islamic clergy led by Sheikh Mahmoud Halabi (a close associate of Ayatollah Khomeini) formed a society called the Anjoman-e Khayryyehye Hujjatiyyah-ye Mahdaviat (Charitable Society of the Mahdi), based in Mashhad, Iran. The Hujjatyyah membership was mostly composed by the bazaar-i businessmen and fanatical mullahs. Among many things, they were against the communists, Marxists, and atheists. Their overarching "raison d'être," however, was to prepare the world for the upcoming of the 12th Imam -- the Mehdi.

However, the most important immediate agenda item on their list was to harass and persecute the Baha'is, a religious group representing a small percentage of Iran's population. In fact, the Hujjatiyyah-y's alternative name became "The anti-Baha'i Society" (Anjuman-e Zidd-e Baha'iyat). They collectively worked for a single purpose: the eradication of Baha'is.

The terrible plight of the Baha'is in Iran is particularly heart-wrenching, since they are the largest non-Muslim population in the country and have been, from day one, severely brutalized by Muslims. Baha'i teachings of tolerance and openness to science are anathema to the Islamofascists on many levels, but the history of the faith includes direct challenges to the theological legitimacy of the mullahs. These slaveholders find the Baha'i faith a threat to their own version of Islam and the absolute theocratic power it puts their hands.

The egomaniac President Ahmadinejad is a member of Hujjatiyyah. He sees himself as the personal vassal of the Mahdi-Messiah or Hidden Imam, with whom he has fantasized tête-à-têtes frequently.

Ahmadinejad, a man driven by his religion, has a spiritual advisor in Ayatollah Mohammad Taghi Mesbah-Yazdi (the defacto leader of the Hojatieh). The President's advisor is known for his extremist views on Islam and promotes suicide bombings and attacks on civilians in the West. There is only view of Islam for him. He once said, "...if anyone tells you their own interpretation of Islam, punch them in the mouth!"

President Ahmedinejad has in a short time acquired great many descriptors at home and overseas: zealot, fascist, fanatic, anti-Semitic, lunatic and more. One prominent Western columnist called him "unhinged." But we cannot just dismiss the man as an aberration, someone who is in urgent need of psychological help, a person out of touch with reality, who represents nothing of substance.

Once again the West is misreading and misjudging people and events in the Middle East, due to the fact that it views things through its own prism.

Looking at the man through Western spectacles, he indeed appears to be all of the above and more. Yet Ahmadinejad is far from unhinged. As a matter of fact he is firmly hinged to a set of beliefs that dictate his views of the world, and inform him how he should deal with it from his position of power.

An unhinged man has the potential of becoming once again hinged. But, there is very little that can be done to a person who is inseparably hinged, and Ahmadinejad views are firmly rooted in the most orthodox philosophy of Shiism.

For our purposes, however, it is sufficient to document the fact that Ahmadinejad is not mentally disturbed; there is no display of contradictory thoughts and behavior. There is a full internal consistency in Ahmadinejad. Ahmadinejad's words, deeds and beliefs show a fully hinged person.

Below are a few examples of his sayings, beliefs and actions. Whether one agrees or disagrees with them, they all fit perfectly into a consistent pattern.

▪ He literally believes in the imminent emergence of the Mahdi - the Shiites' promised one who is expected to appear to set aright a decadent and wretched world.

▪ He views himself as the vassal of Mahdi, working for him and being accountable to him.

▪ His main task is to prepare the world so to hasten the Mahdi's coming. If this preparation requires much destruction and bloodshed, so be it.

▪ As a former mayor of Tehran, he developed elaborate detailed plans preparing the city for the arrival of the Mahdi.

▪ He allocated generous sums for extensive road improvement to a mosque at Jamkaaraan near the city of Qum where it is believed the promised Mahdi is hiding in a well since the age of nine, over 1100 years ago.

▪ He reportedly visits the well frequently and drops his written supplications into the well for the hidden Mahdi to act upon them.

▪ He has said in private that it was he who asked the Mahdi to inflict the massive stroke on Ariel Sharon.

▪ He sees the Jews as the sworn enemies of Islam. The hostility dates back to the time of Muhammad's own treatment of the Jews in Medina. At first, expediently, Muhammad called the Jews "people of the book," and accorded them a measure of tolerance until he gained enough power to unleash his devastating wrath on them.

▪ He says that the Holocaust is a myth. He is, in this respect, in good company with a number of other revisionist fanatics.

▪ He wants Israel to be wiped out of the map or transferred to Europe.

▪ In his speech at the UN general assembly, he implored the Mahdi to come and save the world. He claimed that during his speech of some twenty odd minutes, a powerful light enveloped him and all participants were held transfixed, unable to move their eyes.

▪ He believes that the earth is Allah's and all people must either become believers of his brand of Islam or must perish as infidels najis (unclean) who by their very presence defile Allah's earth.

▪ He believes that this earthly life is passing and worthless in comparison to the afterlife awaiting a devoted and faithful believer. Hence, he holds to the old belief that if a faithful kills an infidel, he goes to Allah's paradise; and, if the faithful gets killed in the process of serving the faith, again he goes to Allah's paradise. Hence, it is a win-win proposition for the faithful.

Ahmadinejad is a true devoted Muslim. Being unpredictable, self-contradictory and inconsistent are major symptoms of the mentally unhinged. By these standards of insanity, Ahmadinejad emerges as completely sane. He is fully predictable, consistent and has shown no self-contradiction. He does not even pretend that he misspoke or apologize for his outrageous statements. He is not a typical politician who practices the devious art of doublespeak, deception and change of position to suit his immediate convenience.

He knows who he is, what he believes, and what his own mission in life is: serving as the instrument for the revered Mahdi. Allah will make him emerge from the well as soon as the world's conditions hit absolute hopeless bottom. Ahmadinejad sees himself as a driver who can play a critical role in doing just that, driving the world to the very bottom. And he plans on having an arsenal of nuclear weapons as soon as possible.

There is nothing really "unhinged" about Ahamadinejad's thinking, statements and actions. They are internally consistent. He is simply a fanatic who is wedded to an extremely dangerous exclusionary system of belief. Humanity must learn that dismissing him as alunatic will result in great suffering, as it did with Hitler.

Tragically, Ahmadinejad is the embodiment of several million people who are hinged exactly like him and who are willing to give their lives, and take with them as many lives as required in the service of their belief. In this age of Weapons of Mass Destruction a man with huge sums of petrodollars can serve as the catalyst of total annihilation.

Prudence would err on the side of being an alarmist than a complacent dismissive.

Ahmadinejad and his ilk are not interested in any negotiation, any compromise or any live-and-let-live final solution. They are determined to be the soldiers of Mahdi come-what-may. They have no problem with the total destruction of the world. They are headed for a life of eternal bliss in Allah's paradise. They hardly care, even rejoice, if the rest of humanity is subjected to a tragic death in the nuclear, biological and chemical wasteland of planet earth.

Humanity cannot afford and must not ignore the emergence of the final threat to its very existence on this planet.

[mahak]

Malcolm X was also considered a demagogue, but if one really acknowledges the real;ity of wqhat he said, then he is quite favored historically speaking.

 

Of course, this person has been conveniently placed in a box of demagogue. But if one really analyzes some of the thing that he says (especially the part of depleted uranium that not only our soldiers are absorbing to the extend of the agent orange fiasco, they are bringing it home, to us, everyone is being nuked by WMDs by Bush, By Cheney, by Fox news), then perhaps a different picture comes clear.

 

The Bahai persecution is no joke, it is real. But we still live in glass houses, so our stones are suicidal. Because we have leonard peltier, we just offed Tookie even though DNA would have proved that he didnt off the koreans. We wiped out MOVE in Philadelphia along with the whole neighborhood because they were composting garden waste. We wiped out WACO because Koresh was telling us things about the seven seals we didnt like. And though 911 is the fodder for conspiracy theorists, where are the pictures of the jet going into the Pentagon (or maybe you believe that building had no operating surveillance cameras at the time.) And the truth is also that we invaded Iraq and murdered Saddam for something he fought very rigidly, Islamist fanaticism. Saddam is the enemy of bin laden, but bin laden is alive and we offed saddam. Arabs are still our allies, even though 911 was carried out by 18 arabs and one yemeni, and absolutely no bathist/stalinists in the Iraqi government.

 

Bahais are murdered, but so are crips, bloods, M13s, reservation indians (who dont own casinos). Hare Krsnas would be murdered too if they didnt self destruct and become a joke even to themselves.

 

Anyway, thanks, murali, for giving us a way to look at this current event subject in another light. It is too convenient to have another declare for me who I should deem my enemy. They tried with Malcolm X, Patrice Lumumba, Ho Chi Minh and Saddam Hussein, and all four turned out to NOT be my enemies at all, rather contributing members of society that our propaganda only has tinged for the unthinking. I find the words of the president of Iran just as you say, rather enlightening.

 

And I already knew he didnt deny the holocaust, he actually stated that many other than just the jews were caught up in the horrors, that it isnt a jewish issue. He also questioned the sheer numbers, which I do as well. Not that 2.5 million is okay, but it is not 6 million. Romanys got that maqny murdered as well. Ethiopians were similarly wiped out by the Italians, the chinese lost millions to the Japanese in the rape of Nanching. Our ally, Pol Pot, the enemy of Ho Chi Minh, killed 6 million in Kampuchia, and our role in the assassination of Patrice Lumumba by Moishe Tsombe led to the rise of the likes of Idi Amin and others who slaughtered the whole of Afrika.

 

And we are aghast that the Iranian president offends the jews by denying the holocaust, while our own presidents grandfather was the ally of Hitler and the Nazis, even convicted in our own federal court for supplying armaments to the Hitler military machine, yet where is the outrage.

 

Personally, I think it is all cool. The universal form and all, all these people marching off into the holocaust of the universal form.

 

Dont worry about the others who object to your post, they have their own threads about fairy tales to go to.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Murali_Mohan_das]

A quick Google search reveals the author of this hit piece to be an anti-Muslim bigot who was banned from Hotmail for sending out hate literature.

 

I've heard of the plight of the Bahai's in Iran, and no doubt, the situation is lamentable. As Mahaksa Prabhu points out, though, the US regimes have done their own share of oppression. There's plenty of guilt and blame to go around.

 

Otherwise, the article actually paints in my mind a very favorable picture of the President if one can read between the lines of hatred.

 

Is the hope for the appearance of the Mahdi any different from the Vaishnava expectation of Kalki Avatar?

 

Isn't it better to have a leader who is truly faithful than to have one that pays lip-service to his faith while acting against the teachings of his Master at every step?

 

 

Perhaps the following article will be useful in understanding 'the words of an evil man' :

 

<!-- To change picture from left to right, change "TopicImgLeft" to "TopicImgRight" -->By Amil Imani

[Guruvani]

 

A quick Google search reveals

 

Don't believe everything you read in a quick Google search.

 

Go deeper Grasshopper.

Go below the surface and the false front men put up when they are addressing the UN.

 

There is more to this maniac than what you read from his UN address.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

I'd take your advice if I thought you'd actually read anything of what he's said.

 

Actually, I *am* trying to take your advice.

 

When I hear somebody in such a position of prominence has said hateful and inflamatory things, my natural curiosity dictates that I find a recording or transcript of the person's actual words so I may judge for myself rather than accept the second or third-hand account. I doubt you have done anything of the sort.

 

Going below the surface reveals that, prior to Mossadeq nationalizing the Iranian oil industry in the early 50's, the British Empire was receiving more than half of its revenue from their exploitation of the Iranian oil fields. Mossadeq had reasonably demanded of the British that they split the oil profits *equally* with the Iranian people and that there be some accounting of how much oil was being taken (there had been none previously). The British refused, so they were ejected from Iran.

 

Consequently, the British and US governments orchestrated a coup in Iran that let to 30 years of oppressive fascism under the Shah.

 

Is it any wonder that the Iranian people have a profound mistrust of the US and Britain?

 

 

Don't believe everything you read in a quick Google search.

 

Go deeper Grasshopper.

Go below the surface and the false front men put up when they are addressing the UN.

 

There is more to this maniac than what you read from his UN address.

[Guruvani]

 

 

Consequently, the British and US governments orchestrated a coup in Iran that let to 30 years of oppressive fascism under the Shah.

 

 

I remember hearing a story that one disciple of Srila Prabhupada, I think his name was Paramahansa Swami was preaching to and cultivating the Prince and Princess of Iran (son and daughter of the Shah) just before the Shah was overthrown.

I heard he was teaching them Hatha-yoga and also slipping in some KC with his preaching.

 

Then, I guess the Shah's karma got discombobulated and he soon lost his throne and a lot of his stuff.

 

So, you say the Shah was a bad guy, but his kids were actually learning about KC from a direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Sounds like he had some pious credits somewhere in the stockpile.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

I never said he was good or bad, but the Shah certainly appears to have been a tool of the imperialists and a coward (he fled the country at one point, when things were looking rough).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax

 

The Lord's mercy knows no bounds. Nor does His wrath.

 

 

So, you say the Shah was a bad guy, but his kids were actually learning about KC from a direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Sounds like he had some pious credits somewhere in the stockpile.

[Guruvani]

 

 

Consequently, the British and US governments orchestrated a coup in Iran that let to 30 years of oppressive fascism under the Shah.

 

 

So, I guess having radical, maniacal Ayatollahs running the show is better than a secular strongarm leader?

Personally, I think that strongarm secular leaders like Purvez Musharaf of Pakistan is the best option for the middle east wasteland of radical Islamic fanatics.

 

It appears that actually that Iraq would have been better off with Saddam Hussein running the circus.

 

As far as whether or not that was safe for the rest of the world, well, there are no easy answers for that predicament.

 

In hindsight, it appears that we made a mistake in invading Iraq.

 

The solution to the problem appears to be more disasterous than the problem.

 

We should have just bombed Saddam into allowing close UN supervision of his weapons program.

 

The full-blown invasion has backfired.

[stonehearted]

Even though this is not a spiritual opinion, and at the risk of becoming embroiled in yet another useless argument, I must point out that many of us saw beforehand that a full-blown invasion would be a terrible mistake. I remember being in the Hilo WalMart when the "Shock and Awe" bombing campaign began, and they played radio broadcast of the explosions over the PA. Ugh. It was horrible, insane.

[Guruvani]

 

I remember being in the Hilo WalMart when the "Shock and Awe" bombing campaign began, and they played radio broadcast of the explosions over the PA. Ugh. It was horrible, insane.

At the time it was just great entertainment for me to watch the "shock and awe" campaign.

 

I was glued to CNN for days.

Some people like movies or sitcoms.

I like a good invasion of a country.

 

It was popcorn and soda pop time for me.

But, watching the situation there now is very depressing and sad.

 

The Sunni-Shia rivalry in Iraq is a good example of how screwed-up and retarded is this Islamic cult.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

The Sunni-Shia rivalry in Iraq is a good example of how screwed-up and retarded is this Islamic cult.

 

The Sunni-Shia rivalry in Iraq (and also involving Iran) is a good example of the long-standing US military policy of "divide and conquer".

 

While I have little evidence at the moment, my intuition tells me very strongly that US operatives have been instrumental in inflaming the long latent rivalries.

 

I won't take the time to find it now, but I recently read an article detailing how there were many Sunni-Shia integrated communities before the current war and that there were many inter-sect romances. Since the war started and sectarian violence was (artificially) inflamed, folks have moved into areas dominated by the sect of their birth and many romances between Sunnis and Shias have been destroyed by circumstances.

 

The kids watched "The Princess Bride" last night, and I was struck by this exchange:

 

 

Fezzik: You never said anything about killing anyone!

Vizzini: I've hired you to help me start a war! It's an prestigious line of work, with a long and glorious tradition.

Fezzik: I just don't think it's right, killing an innocent girl.

Vizzini: Am I going MAD, or did the word "think" escape your lips?! You were not hired for your brains, you hippopotamic LAND MASS!

[theist]

 

I remember hearing a story that one disciple of Srila Prabhupada, I think his name was Paramahansa Swami was preaching to and cultivating the Prince and Princess of Iran (son and daughter of the Shah) just before the Shah was overthrown.

I heard he was teaching them Hatha-yoga and also slipping in some KC with his preaching.

 

Then, I guess the Shah's karma got discombobulated and he soon lost his throne and a lot of his stuff.

 

So, you say the Shah was a bad guy, but his kids were actually learning about KC from a direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Sounds like he had some pious credits somewhere in the stockpile.

 

Parivrajakacarya Swami. A wonderful soul with a high cultured family background. I remember asking him why he was always wearing this Adidas sweatshirt. I saw it as a corporate plug. He said "Why not wear it? It is Krsna's name." =:-) A perfect example of mundane vs. spiritual vision.

[theist]

 

The Sunni-Shia rivalry in Iraq (and also involving Iran) is a good example of the long-standing US military policy of "divide and conquer".

 

They have hated each other for hundreds of years. Sheesh:rolleyes: It was Al Queda that started the civil war by blowing up the Samarra Mosque sacred to the Shia plus many other atrocities. This gave the final green light to Shiite militia known as Madhi (get it) Army and backed by your friend Akmedinijad in Shia Iran, Through Sadr to start killing Sunnis and others who are non-Shia in preparation for Madhi the 12th Imam to come up out of his well and rule the world.

 

Now I suppose you are going to tell us that it was the US army that made Madhi go into hiding in the well in 941 when he was 9 in the first place.

 

This is simply material religious fanaticism meets caoitalist greed in the form of big oil in a three way shoot out. There are no good guys here. Some may be more and some less bad that's all. Nothing spiritual is involved irregardless of your new siksa guru's speech to the UN.

[sevabhakta]

The man is sober, has a keen intellect, is an articulate orator, and knows history.

 

That said, he speaks with a forked tongue. He is pandering to the idealist in John Doe U.S.A., in order to manipulate public sentiment against taking any action to stay his plans for world domination.

 

And he is real good.

 

Personally I don't give a hoot which one of these neophyte fanatic leaders, American/Iranian/Russian etc. gets the upper hand, they all fall short of my idea of Vaisnava leaders ready to implement Varnasrama Dharma for the good of the planet.

 

Let them nuke each other into oblivion and then we can sort things out using revealed knowledge instead of materially motivated speculation in the guise of pious religiousity.

 

Good night and sweet dreams of Krsna.

[mahak]

This thread is about the TRUTH spoken by an individual. Now he may well be a liar, but his truth is true because it is true, and no amount of liars can change fact. If one reads the bold words posted by Murali, it is very hard to argue with, this is why I am appreciative that he posted. Now if we entangle ourselves with the entanglement of the paradigm of who said it, then our bias against this person will make us think that the bold statements are inimical.

 

All the other stuff on this thread is about current events, and we all have our hard fought views on a wide range of subjects. We are all right, even if on opposite sides of the issue, because politics is relative and temporary truth. This is the secret code I used in my last post, where I ended by saying Krsna is the ultimate holocaust, for jews, muslims, christians, hindus, all of us are on our death march, and it is not if, rather when.

 

Now my view, now that this topic is placed on the anything goes station, is that where is the shock and awe in Myanmar?. Where is the concern for democracy, nation building, restoration of human rights. Bush I goes in blazing when disco kuwaitis are invaded by one who is an ally and has the state department's permission, Bush II does his shock and awe because of info he receives from an Iranian malcontent (Shaloppy). We dont invade the Sauidi peninsula where fanatic Islamism is there in full.

 

And now we sit idly by while the Brahmana class (priests, nuns, etc) are dragged off and slaughtered in Myanmar. Where the Myanmar Government purchases thousands of Buddhist robes and orders its military to shave their heads so they can provoke civil war. Myanmar is Kampuchea all over again. (Note: Myanmar = Burma, Kampuchea = Cambodia). In two years, (1975-76) Kampuchea government slaughtered more civilians than the entire Vietnam war slaughtered from 1954-1974, including Vietnamese, Americans, and French combined.

 

So, yeah, we cry about the persecutions of Bahai in Iran, we always bring up the holocaust of the Jews, but we are blind to even greater calamities, because the policeman of the world is a bad cop, who only acts on bribery money, has no concern for DHARMA, is a military state of mleccas without any tinge of Ksatriya dharma that demands protection of the innocent, especially the holy ones engaged in religious practice.

 

In my day, we called bad cops pigs, and the policeman of the world smells just like those who sprayed tear gas on teenage girls just trying to get away from the melees caused by pig provocateurs.

 

No justice, no peace. Mleccas in pretense of being ksatriyas are the lowest of mankind.

 

We await Sri Parasurama to continue his mission of relieving the world of false leaders.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa