Is the soul more powerful, illuminating and dazzling than the Sun or Moon?

[theist]

 

A nice meditation, to be sure.

 

All of these comparisons *must* be purely illustrative, though, wouldn't you say?

 

In reality, how can we compare the all-spiritual jivAtma to material hair. If the soul is spiritual, how can we say it has *any* material dimensions whatsoever? The comparison is used to illustrate the infinitessimal nature of the jiva-soul's potency, is it not?

 

Similarly, while the energy output of the sun can be measured in Watts/meter squared at a particular distance from the sun, how can we make a similar measurement of the brightness of the individual soul? It's not possible, is it?

 

So, these comparisons, to my ken, are not to be taken literally.

 

Right. A problem arises if we expect and even demand the type of answer that will fit neatly into a textbook or into the similarily inadequacy of our conditioned minds.

 

That's why I refered to this question as a meditation. As we meditate upon it which includes primarily listening for the answer from the Lord within, we may receive a proper understanding or at least a glimpse of something beyond our understanding. This is what I call spiritual directed intution. IOW directed by the Supersoul and not just based on past mundane experiences.

 

And even if we should get such a glimpse it may not be possible to convey it to others verbally. Therefore the sages have left us statements like the atma is more powerful than the sun or ten thousand suns. These are not numbers to be held onto hard and fast or quibbled over (1 vs. 10,000)but are indicators of the unspeakable reality.

 

So we intutit until we are realized as that atma and know ourselves as ourselves.

 

Presently we are speaking of the atma as some external object. Eventually we must transcend this stage.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Thanks so much prabhu! You're a great teacher!

 

That's kind of you to say. My kids might not agree, though!

 

I wish I was a better student.

 

Thank *you*, Prabhu for being so amiable and for bringing so much fresh prasada to the Audarya table!!

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

I was counting on Eminem_das from skateboard Mecca for that. Carve me a line, young Siddhartha.

 

I'm a song-writer, not a poet, but here goes...

 

The sun and the moon

Shining light on dying things

Cannot touch the soul

 

Paramatma shines

So brightly that none can see

Anything but Him

 

 

<center>By the rays of the sun, even the moon,

We can see - dark matter, all around.

 

The soul, however, is so bright that,

There is just no dark matter to see.

 

And only the Supersoul can really be seen,

For He Just Is - infinitely more effulgent than we.

</center>

[Guruvani]

Srila Sridhar Maharaja explains how and why the soul is actually more illuminating and powerful than the Sun.

 

 

The next word in the brahma-gayatri is savitur. Savitur generally means surya, the sun. And the sun means, figuratively, that which shows or illuminates; that by which we can see. The three gross and subtle strata within this world are shown to us by a particular thing, savitur. What it that? The soul. Actually, the world is not shown to us by the sun, but by the soul. What really gives us perception and allows us to see gross things? It is not actually the sun that helps us to see; we see with the help of the soul. This is found in Bhagavad-gita (yatha prakasayaty ekah krtsnam lokam imam ravih). The soul reveals this world to us just as the sun does. The sun can show color to our eyes, the ear can reveal the sound world, and the hand can reveal the touch world. But really in the center is the soul. It is the soul who gives light to this world, who gives us an understanding of the environment, the world of perception. All perception is possible only because of the soul. Here, the word savitur, which generally means sun, can only mean soul, like the sun, shows us everything.

so, really, the soul is what allows us to see, not the Sun.

[mahak]

Yeah, way thanx for your assn, suchandra.

 

re retirement, Im just toning it down, being more selective about discussion subjects. But I cant go to canada right now, so the only way I get gHari is here (unless I sneak all the way up to the kingdom of god, which I find myself doing more and more lately).

 

Splittin hairs is fun too, I got a rise with the eternalness of chandra and surya, until I actually thought about it. Their positions as the sun god and the moon god are what is temporary, but they are, indeed, much more powerful that the planets they operate.

 

And cool, too. I just read about suryas appearance to young impetuous Kunti devi. Teenagers, whattaryagonnado. But Surya is so cool, he can make the great Karna, and preserve the chastity of Kunti all at the same time.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

 

Chandra aint no flake, either, way cool, with all that soma. I will read the eternal story of when Lord Narayana wanted to begin again, and call upon the ditis and adityas to work together to churn the ocean of milk, making all these wonderful things, especially amrita. All glories to all the incarnations who took part in this true event at the dawn of creation, Lord Sri Kurma.

 

haribol

[gHari]

 

The sun and the moon

Shining light on dying things

Cannot touch the soul

 

Paramatma shines

So brightly that none can see

Anything but Him

Thank you MnM, for hanging this rose on my poem. It added something for me that I hadn't yet seen. And maybe tomorrow they'll be something else. That's the beauty of poetry with its unsaid words, pregnant words and dashes and commas that dance nuances forever - the infinite language of love. Krs na.

 

Krsna - now that's poetry.

[dattaswami]

 

What do you think?

 

the soul is twice negligible for God

 

This world is ‘Mithya’, which means almost unreal because its reality is negligible. The existence of a tiny cut on your shirt is negligible and you will not count its existence. This entire world is almost unreal for God and is like a day dream. All the five elements viz. matter and energy are almost unreal in view of God. The soul is made of tender and weakest energy called as awareness (chit), which is nervous energy flowing in most delicate matter i.e. brain and nerves. This nervous energy is almost negligible before the physical matter and inert energy and this physical matter and energy are negligible before God. Thus, the soul is twice negligible for God.

The most negligible item of this world is the soul. The qualities or feelings (gunas) are like waves of soul. They are negligible before the existence of soul. The water associated with some kinetic energy induced becomes a wave. The wave represents that kinetic energy. The physical existence in terms of visibility of energy is negligible before the matter. Thus the wave representing energy is also not completely unreal and can be called as ‘Mithya’. The subtle body made of these qualities is Mithya before the soul. Thus a dream made of feelings is Mithya before a soul. What are these bonds like parents, wife, children etc? These bonds are only just feelings, which are waves of the nervous energy. A father and daughter or a brother and sister separated from the beginning met in a foreign country and got married. Later on they realised and could not continue as couple. The daughter of sister is married but the daughter of brother is treated as daughter. In some other region and religion, the system is reversed! It is the wave of mind or feeling that is the essence of a bond. Therefore all these bonds are almost unreal (Mithya) for a soul.

Why there should be tensions, murders and suicides for the sake of these almost unreal bonds? Why there should be corruption for the sake of these almost unreal bonds and go to hell for the sin of corruption? It is these bonds that form the meaning of the word ‘world’ for the soul when the world is said to be Mithya and not the physical world. This is the essence of Shankara, which is misunderstood and the soul treats the physical world as unreal! An ignorant soul thinks that these bonds are real and undergoes tensions.

[Sarva gattah]

“Each and every living entity is originally attached to a particular type of transcendental service, because he is eternally the servitor of the Lord”. - Srimad Bhagavatam 3.9.11, purport

 

"sadhana-siddha means those who are put into this material world, by the association of maha-bhagavata, if he tries, follows, then he can also become maha-bhagavata or nitya-siddha, because originally EVERYONE is nitya-siddha.

 

nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti ‘sadhya’ kabhu naya

zravanadi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya

 

Every living entity originally nitya-siddha" Srimad Bhagavatam 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977 <!-- / message -->

 

Srila Prabhupada – “This love is already there within the heart of everyone (nitya-siddha krishna-prema). http://caitanyacaritamrta.

com/madhya/22/…

[mahak]

Murali, you went and said something sublime, and gHari emphasizes this, saying "That's the beauty of poetry with its unsaid words, pregnant words and dashes and commas that dance nuances forever - the infinite language of love. Krs na."

 

The way I heard the story is as follows, which we could quibble about endlessly, but why bother if the suit fits.

 

As the greatest hero that ever lived sadly attended to her twin boys, alone, in exile again forever, Srimati Sitadevi was able to surmount the dark hole of separation from her Rama by hearing the combination of poetry and songwriting. Sri Kusa is the poem, Sri Lava is the song, and they present both to Lord Ramachandra so He too can surmount the dark hole of separation.

 

Thus the first song merges with the first poem, and Sri Valmikis Ramayana is heard until the end of time. I will let the scholars decide if the sons of Sita and Rama are of the Visnu catagory, but Ill save them the time by saying "YES". Poems and songs are the language of Godhead, just as gHari says, "That's the beauty of poetry with its unsaid words, pregnant words and dashes and commas that dance nuances forever - the infinite language of love. Krs na."

 

What was the topic?

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[gHari]

 

What was the topic?

 

As it always is: Krs na.

 

And you got us there so very very beautifully.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Murali, you went and said something sublime, and gHari emphasizes this, saying "That's the beauty of poetry with its unsaid words, pregnant words and dashes and commas that dance nuances forever - the infinite language of love. Krs na."

 

Jai Sri Krishna.

 

I'm glad my God-Uncles approve of my meager attempt to make a garland of words!

 

It's suprising what can happen when we're trying to fit words to a meter. Of course, if I have concocted something new, in trying to rephrase the statement of the Vaishnava, then I have failed miserably!!!

 

Still, it's a reminder to me that, ironically, it's often in the confines of structure (whether it's haiku meter, 12-bar blues, or vaidhi bhakti) that we truly find freedom.