to remain in iskcon

[fish]

Anyhow we came to a conclusion, that Iskcon it first of all ideology, principles which were put by Shrila Prabhupada. If we adhere to instructions of books of SP, we can count myself part of Iskcon why is not? And if the administration does not correspond to instructions of Krishna, we can tell them, where a discrepancy. Krishna speaks to address to the one who represents Him instead of whom that of another.

[sevabhakta]

 

Anyhow we came to a conclusion, that Iskcon it first of all ideology, principles which were put by Shrila Prabhupada. If we adhere to instructions of books of SP, we can count myself part of Iskcon why is not? And if the administration does not correspond to instructions of Krishna, we can tell them, where a discrepancy. Krishna speaks to address to the one who represents Him instead of whom that of another.

 

Yes, in the same way that Lord Brahma had the plan originally, and then bore sages, progenitors, demigods, demons etc, and gave them all instructions according to their potentials and capacities according to guna and karma...

 

We may as well consider ourselves in the same position, Srila Prabhupada was the Lord Brahma or Spiritual Master of what type of societal living was to occur on those parcels of earth and structures built thereon which he claimed ownership of in Krsna's Service.

 

Srila Prabhupada was given the vision of what to create by dint of his concentrated meditation on his Guru's order, and Sri Krnsa's lotus feet.

 

Unlike Lord Brahma, none of us dare consider ourselves a kumara who when ordered to implement varnasrama dharma into the society claims higher taste and walks away, but if one is so daring, let's see what they got, MINUS Srila Prabhupada's properties of every variety.

 

Those who will succeed to please Srila Prabhupada will become pure devotees through implementing his order, which seems impossible, just like Srila Prabhupada faced climbing off the Jaladuta into the Bowery NYC.

 

For decades Srila Prabhupada was on the stump in India, meaning amidst the Kirtana and prasadam (literature included) distribution he constantly did he also preached tirelessly with the aim of organizing people into a cohesive unit, and was rebuked time and time again, simply patronized with enough donation to keep his saintly aura blessing the homes and districts he frequented, but that did not and could not hold him there, for he was looking to radically upset and revise the current social order as part and parcel of his Sankirtana Yajna. Just read the letters he wrote to politicians and great thinkers. He wanted them all to take advice from him about how to proceed in their lives!! He wanted to engage everyone he could reach out to.

 

He had to come to America to get anyone to seriously consider what he was offering, and that only because some of us actually realized we needed what he had to give.

 

There is no Vaisnava tradition current in India that is designed to engage a broad spectrum of western conditioned Jivas in some sadhana schedule of gradual purification. Designed to reach out to the most fallen and give each one the opportunity, if their heart desires, to begin their path of bhakti yoga starting from their current position in Guna and Karma.

 

Srila Prabhupada's instructions are the traditions for the Sankirtana based society he envisioned for the time place and circumstance he was empowered to preach in.

 

Time: End of Kali Yuga transitioning to mini Golden Age of Sankirtana Yajna.

Place: Earth.

Circumstance: Bring Sankirtana to 90% of the world. Every town and village.

 

Under his blueprint, there was plenty of room for strong dynamic independent brahminical types to guide the gradual emergence of a Vaisnava village as result of successful Harinama Sankirtana and the needs commensurate with the people who perform Sankirtana for many decades.

 

Those who claim to follow his authority, but can never seem to engage in group activities because everyone in the potential group seems to have a different interpretation of what Srila Prabhupada really wanted, are themselves likely doing the same thing. Change starts within. A sure sign you need change is if you are preaching in Iskcon temples, while harboring doubts about Srila Prabhupada.

 

I hope some of us can meet up after we realize that we must look to the transcendentally descended instructions of the Acarya to resolve ALL difference of opinion on how to proceed cooperatively in trancendentally situated social activity. And pray for enough humility that we can faithfully see and accept his instructions as they are.

 

Hare Krsna!

[cbrahma]

 

Anyhow we came to a conclusion, that Iskcon it first of all ideology, principles which were put by Shrila Prabhupada. If we adhere to instructions of books of SP, we can count myself part of Iskcon why is not? And if the administration does not correspond to instructions of Krishna, we can tell them, where a discrepancy. Krishna speaks to address to the one who represents Him instead of whom that of another.

That's very nice. But the institution that calls itself ISKCON would disagree.

ISKCON is a dry surrogate, a shell of ritualized piety, a shadow of the original fire of the pure devotee.

[Guruvani]

 

ISKCON is a dry surrogate, a shell of ritualized piety, a shadow of the original fire of the pure devotee.

 

Interesting.

I never before ever considered that a fire can have a shadow.

Fire, by it's quality of being luminous cannot really have a shadow.

 

ISKCON is a shadow alright, but not a shadow of fire.

It is a shadow created by the blockage of light.

 

ISKCON is a shadow due to the absence of fire.

Fire cannot have a shadow.

 

ISKCON is an imitation fire created by smoke and mirrors.

Mirrors reflect fire but are not fire.

The light in the mirror is not real fire.

 

If you could cut through all the smoke and mirrors of ISKCON you would find that the fire of ISKCON got extinguished by the water of guru aparadha.

 

Glow worms have replaced the Sun of ISKCON (Srila Prabhupada) and proclaimed themselves as the source of light.

[Kulapavana]

 

Don't let the fact that some guy cheated you allow yourself to be bitterly blinded to transcendental authority that you can accept "blindly" as you would say, to hell with your material vision, there are none so blind as those who choose their material perception to counter the Sastra.

 

You misunderstand what I said. I dont believe that Prabhupada's commentaries were dictated by Krsna, that's all. They are a product of his learning, his devotional vision, and his utilization of commentaries of the previous acharyas. As such they are extremely valuable and we dont need to invent any fake legends to boost their value.

[suchandra]

 

I dont believe that Prabhupada's commentaries were dictated by Krsna, that's all.

 

But by whom your commentaries are dictated to make such a statement?

Let's say your mind says, Prabhupada's commentaries were not dictated by Krishna. At least you have to admit that millions of people who read Prabhupada's books would say that they received an enrichment and that they felt that they want his books. Whereas my commentaries, who wants to hear what "I believe"? So far I came to understand that "my knowledge" people don't signal there's any demand for what I know. Therefore I chose to stick to repeating what sastra says.

[mahak]

Srila Prabhupada, in describing his mission, acknowledges his position as Krsnas subserviant. He does not kick Him off the chariot and proceed to instruct Arjuna. But what he does do is fully and completely represent the will of the Supreme Lord. He rightly sits upon the Vyasasana, meaning that he speaks what Srila Vyasadeva speaks, no changes, no alterations. He also clearly states that this is the test for us in seeking guidance from a guru, that the guru must represent the teachings of Srila Vyasadeva.

 

Use his own words, establish his own nuance? I would surely hope so, because dry repetition does not reach the intended mark of the self. Srila Prabhupada reaches us through his individual personality. This personality may differ from that of Madhavacarya's militancy or of Haridas Thakura's tolerance, but the message is preserved intact so that the unity of all the acaryas shines through their individual diversity.

 

Back to the topic, "to remain in ISKCON" means to follow Srila Prabhupada. Where this following takes place is his preaching apparatus, his foundation. He is the founder-acarya of the krsna conscious heart of his disciple, not some building, not some bank account symbolized by an acronym he invented for business purposes. So what is meant by "leaving ISKCON" should be clear. We must remain with his foundation of our own krsna consciousness, whether or not we associate with his business interest is not really a substantive issue.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[cbrahma]

 

Interesting.

I never before ever considered that a fire can have a shadow.

Fire, by it's quality of being luminous cannot really have a shadow.

 

ISKCON is a shadow alright, but not a shadow of fire.

It is a shadow created by the blockage of light.

 

ISKCON is a shadow due to the absence of fire.

Fire cannot have a shadow.

 

ISKCON is an imitation fire created by smoke and mirrors.

Mirrors reflect fire but are not fire.

The light in the mirror is not real fire.

 

If you could cut through all the smoke and mirrors of ISKCON you would find that the fire of ISKCON got extinguished by the water of guru aparadha.

 

Glow worms have replaced the Sun of ISKCON (Srila Prabhupada) and proclaimed themselves as the source of light.

Maybe my poetic license has expired but I consider today's ISKCON to be a kind of negative exposure of the original. In that sense it's a shadow of fire.

[Guruvani]

 

In that sense it's a shadow of fire.

Or, maybe imitation fire?

 

[fish]

 

ISKCON is an imitation fire created by smoke and mirrors.

 

ок then you stay there and set fire to others. Srila Prabhupada writes, what Iskcon it is identical to Krishna, what for to leave from Krishna in other place?

If we study to see Krishna everywhere, why not in Iscon also? Ок if we have learned to see Krishna outside of Iskcon, can it is time learn to see Krishna in Iskcon also? Krishna everywhere

[fish]

Flight from Iskcon is rajo guna, it is impossible to become perfect this way.

[fish]

It is not necessary to leave, it speaks SP and Krishna speaks. If somebody knows the prime goal, he should remain in Iskcon and preach. It is a way

 

"For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, pure devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me".

Bg 18.68

[Murali_Mohan_das]

I agree with you if you're saying members don't need to leave ISKCON, though. Still, if their spiritual life is suffering (regardless of why--even if it's envy, or passion), perhaps it's best if they leave.

 

Also, many of us were never official members of ISKCON.

 

 

It is not necessary to leave, it speaks SP and Krishna speaks. If somebody knows the prime goal, he should remain in Iskcon and preach. It is a way

 

"For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, pure devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me".

Bg 18.68