Self-Appointed Spiritual Master

[suchandra]

This was to be expected that people will start to say, if ISKCON appoints gurus by vote why not appoint myself?

 

http://www.kratuprabhu.com/pictures1.htm

 

A Concern

 

source: chakra.org

 

by Gaur Kishor Dasa

Posted October 14, 2007

I was surfing the net today and came accross a site www.kratuprabhu.com and I read it with concern.

Kratu Dasa is giving initiations under the claim that he is a disciple of Srila Prabhupada, which is not the case. He was initiated by Kirtanananda Swami only and was not active in the movement at the time of Srila Prabhupada's physical presence.

Obviously being a guru brings disciples and numerous fringe benefits along with it, however it also brings a responsibility having the qualities of a spirtual master and helping people go Back to Godhead. Obviously truthfulness is a required quality to accomplish this mission.

So, this matter must be looked into. The last thing we need is more fireworks & scandals in the movement. We are supposed to be a religious movement trying to assist people in finding a moral compass and a higher meaning. How will people feel when they find out that this person is presenting himself to be someone that he is not in an attempt to attract disciples? In one word - mislead.

Please see what you can do about this matter. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!

 

[Chakra Editor's note: There seems to be conflicting information available. According to the Prabhupada disciple database, this person was initiated in Sept 77. There is also a devotee who remembers Kratu prabhu being approved for initiation that year. However, another devotee has come forward who said that he attended both Kratu Prabhu's first and second initiations and that both were done by Kirtanananda. Chakra takes no position on this issue, but simply wants to make this information available, so that readers can make up their own minds.]

[Kali Chela Hunter]

It is always good to be on the look out for kali chelas in the dress of vaishnavas and it is always proper to look into the background of these people who claim to be gurus.

There are now quite a few online gurus now all vying for disciples and their money,such as Gaurangapada who also claims to be in line of Srila Prabhupada,however a close look at gaurangapada's history shows he was never a direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada but another kali chela by the name of Sri Vishnupada otherwise know as hurrycash swami who also taught that his son was a reincarnation of Srila Prabhupada another kali chela is Kirtanandapada who has spawned his own padas like nitaipada maharaja who happens to be a disciple of another pada gaurangapada.

The title "Visnupada" refers to the Supreme Personality of Godhead and is reserved for the Vaisnava Acarya, the Jagat Guru, who represents the Supreme Lord, Sri Krsna, not for conditioned souls or fallen sanyasis.

It seems that a fallen guru will always produce fallen gurus wheras a Pure Devotee will always produce Pure Devotees

[suchandra]

 

......and it is always proper to look into the background of these people who claim to be gurus.

 

But this is what they exactly use to justify their self-appointement: "the people to whom I preach spiritual knowledge at one point wanted me to become their spiritual master. My background? ISKCON has so many fallen gurus, why are you asking me for my background? My background is to preach in such a way that people want to receive spiritual initiation from me."

In sum, the performance of present Vaishnava gurus seems to have created the situation of loss of credibility to actually teach who is a genuine bona fide spiritual master.

[Kali Chela Hunter]

Another ploy these self appointed gurus use is, or forever screaming, is Vaishnava Apparadha,this is used by them to hide their wicked ways so that honest devotees feel they are causing offence by questioning thier background.It is the duty of the disciple to examine any potential guru.,

 

When one accepts the position of a guru, he accepts responsibility over the deliverance of his disciples. This responsibility has been discussed in the Bhagavata, in Rishabha's advice to his sons:

<dl><dd><dl><dd> gurur na sa syāt sva-jano na sa syāt <dl><dd>pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt | </dd></dl> </dd><dd>daivaṁ na tat syān na patiś ca sa syān <dl><dd>na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum || BhP 5.5.18 </dd></dl> </dd></dl> </dd></dl> <dl><dd>"He should not become a guru, he should not become a kinsman; he should not become a father, he should not become a mother; he should not become a worshipable deity, nor should he become a husband, if he cannot deliver another from the path of death." </dd></dl> If this burden is not duly borne, a great disrespect towards the principle of guru will take place. As in the famous Guru-vandana of the poet Sanatan Das, jīvera nistāra lāgi nanda-suta hari, bhuvane prakāśa hana guru-rūpa dhari - "For the deliverance of souls, Hari, the son of Nanda, appears in this world, bearing the form of the guru." If someone does not actively adopt the due responsibility of another's deliverance, and yet goes on accepting service and donations from his disciples, he essentially betrays the position he has assumed. This is aptly put in Shiva's words to Parvati in Skanda-purana's Guru-gita:

<dl><dd><dl><dd>guravo bahavaḥ santi śiṣya-vittāpahārakaḥ | <dl><dd>durlabho'yaṁ gurur devi śiṣya-saṁtāpa-hārakam || 1.269 </dd></dl> </dd></dl> </dd></dl> <dl><dd>"O Sati, many are the gurus who seize the property of the disciple. Rare is the guru, O Devi, who steals away the affliction of the disciple." </dd></dl>

[Kali Chela Hunter]

Self appointed gurus test.

 

<small><small>SB 6.3.24 P Yamaraja Instructs His Messengers 52185/530501</small></small>

<small><small> The chanting of the Hare Krsna mantra is recommended even for persons who commit offenses, because if they continue chanting they will gradually chant offenselessly. By chanting the Hare Krsna mantra without offenses, one increases his love for Krsna. As stated by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, prema pum-artho mahan: one's main concern should be to increase one's attachment to the Supreme Personality of Godhead and to increase one's love for Him.</small></small>

<small style="font-family: Verdana; font-weight: bold;"><small> Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura also quotes this verse from the Padma Purana:</small></small>

 

<small style="font-weight: bold;">

namaparadha-yuktanam</small><small style="font-weight: bold;">

<small>namany eva haranty agham</small>

<small>avisranti-prayuktani</small>

<small>tany evartha-karani ca</small></small>

 

<small style="font-weight: bold; font-family: Verdana;">Even if in the beginning one chants the Hare Krsna mantra with </small><small style="font-family: Verdana;"><small>offenses, one will become free from such offenses by chanting again and again. Papa-ksayas ca bhavati smaratam tam ahar-nisam: one becomes free from all sinful reactions if one chants day and night, following the recommendation of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

</small></small>

 

<small style="font-family: Verdana;"><small>Whereas gaurangapada teaches</small></small>

 

"The Hare Krishna Mahamantra considers the offenses whereas the Names of Gauranga-Nityananda don't consider offenses. An offensive chanter will never achieve the fruit of chanting (pure love for Krishna) by chanting the Hare Krishna Mahamantra. Therefore till the time he is commiting offenses, he should chant the names of Nityananda and Gauranga. Due the repeated chanting of the names of Nityananda and Gauranga, the offenses will be destroyed and he will achieve the fruit of chanting."

 

Who is correct? are they both corect? or is 1 off them a kali chela

[gHari]

There are Srila Prabhupada quotes that sound very much like the last quote here. He strongly recommends the chanting of the Panca-tattva mantra in the beginning. I fear it is dangerous to pretend to be experts in such a subtle science - offence is hard to overcome. It is better to look inwardly.

 

This is not the quote I had in mind but it is the one that arrived first: http://vedabase.net/cc/adi/8/16/en ---

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvate Thakura says in this connection that although one may go on chanting the Hare Krsna mantra for many, many years, there is no possibility of attaining the platform of devotional service unless one accepts Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

Here it is or at least one something like it: http://vedabase.net/cc/adi/8/31/en

 

[...]

 

There are offenses to be considered in chanting the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra, but there are no such considerations in chanting the names of Gaura-NityAnanda. Therefore, if one chants the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra but his life is still full of sinful activities, it will be very difficult for him to achieve the platform of loving service to the Lord. But if in spite of being an offender one chants the holy names of Gaura-NityAnanda, he is very quickly freed from the reactions to his offenses. Therefore, one should first approach Lord Caitanya and NityAnanda, or worship Guru-GaurAGga, and then come to the stage of worshiping RAdhA-KRSNa.

 

[...]

 

In the beginning one should very regularly chant SrI Gaurasundara's holy name and then chant the holy name of Lord NityAnanda.

 

[...]

 

A neophyte student who is not sufficiently educated or enlightened should not indulge in the worship of SrI RAdhA and KRSNa or the chanting of the Hare KRSNa mantra. Even if he does so, he cannot get the desired result. One should therefore chant the names of NitAi-Gaura and worship Them without false prestige.

 

When the topic is not black and white, we should not splash red paint, for surely some of it (if not all of it) will land on us.

[Kali Chela Hunter]

From Bhaktivedanta Vedabase: Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Ādi 8.31 Purport

 

For an ordinary man, worship of Sri Caitanya and Nityananda Prabhu or the Panca Tattva is easier than worship of Radha and Krsna.

 

Therefore one must first take shelter of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu by chanting jaya shri-krishna-chaitanya, prabhu-nityananda shri-advaita gadadhara, srivasadi gaura-bhakta-vrinda By serving Gaura Nityananda one is freed from the entanglements of material existence and thus becomes qualified to worship the Radha Krsna Deity.

 

I think that is black and white, no need for personal concoctions to be imposed on the majority.

[Guruvani]

Sometimes devotees think that they become appointed guru by vox-populi.

Many times this "vox-populi" is no more than one or two neophyte cronies looking to secure a position in whatever zone or area a senior devotee wields some influence or zonal authority.

 

But, does vox-populi ever sanction a guru?

How many Vaishnavas have accepted guru roles on the basis of vox-populi?

 

Some would say that Srila Prabhupada became guru on the need of vox-populi.

Some would say he was directly authorized and appointed by Srila Saraswati Thakur even though I personally do not know of any verifiable statements of Srila Saraswati Thakur where he explicitly ordered Srila Prabhupada to become a guru and accept disciples of his own.

 

Whatever the case, I personally do not think that one or two ISKCON cronies petitioning some ISKCON devotee to accept them as disciples is really proper sanction, need or authority for an ISKCON devotee to assume the position of a diksha guru in ISKCON.

 

It seems like that the senior sannyasis of ISKCON should and would be assuming the role of diksha guru before any junior ISKCON men come forward to become diksha gurus.

 

But, because ISKCON observes no etiquette in regards to the seniority of the original sannyasi disciples of Srila Prabhupada, it's a free-for-all and any chump that manages to acquire one or two neophyte cronies to follow him is becoming a diksha guru in ISKCON.

[suchandra]

 

Sometimes devotees think that they become appointed guru by vox-populi.

Many times this "vox-populi" is no more than one or two neophyte cronies looking to secure a position in whatever zone or area a senior devotee wields some influence or zonal authority.

 

But, does vox-populi ever sanction a guru?

How many Vaishnavas have accepted guru roles on the basis of vox-populi?

 

Some would say that Srila Prabhupada became guru on the need of vox-populi.

Some would say he was directly authorized and appointed by Srila Saraswati Thakur even though I personally do not know of any verifiable statements of Srila Saraswati Thakur where he explicitly ordered Srila Prabhupada to become a guru and accept disciples of his own.

 

Whatever the case, I personally do not think that one or two ISKCON cronies petitioning some ISKCON devotee to accept them as disciples is really proper sanction, need or authority for an ISKCON devotee to assume the position of a diksha guru in ISKCON.

 

It seems like that the senior sannyasis of ISKCON should and would be assuming the role of diksha guru before any junior ISKCON men come forward to become diksha gurus.

 

But, because ISKCON observes no etiquette in regards to the seniority of the original sannyasi disciples of Srila Prabhupada, it's a free-for-all and any chump that manages to acquire one or two neophyte cronies to follow him is becoming a diksha guru in ISKCON.

Thanks so much for your analysis - if I understood correctly it can be said, present Vaishnavism has created the situation of, phalena pariciate: “A thing is judged by its result”, and nothing else counts. If someone preaches according the sastrical restraint and taking into account how many spiritual masters in the past 30 years fell down, who will check him to act as self-appointed guru? Another thing is that there belong always two, guru and disciple. The attitude of disciple candidates seems in no way influenced by all those fall downs - the willingness to receive initiation from a Vaishnava spiritual master untroubled.

[theist]

The necessity is to be brought into contact with the self-effulgent not the self-appointed. One becomes self-effulgent by virtue of his transcendental consciousness which means direct contact with the Supreme Lord.

 

This effugence is only recognized when by the grace of the Lord that aspirant has received the "divine eyes" from Caitya-guru. Krsna alone reveals His devotee.

 

I do agree that Kratu das has the right to accept disciples as we are told even a kanistha or madhyama level devotee can do that. I don't know him in the slightest and have no opinion on him personally.

 

IMO the wisest course of action is to accept siksa from those around us and rely on Srila Prabhupada's vani. I believe that to be more than sufficient. However if Krsna inspires a guru disciple relationship between yourself and another of His representatives then that would be His will but wait for Krsna to give the divine eyes to enable such vision of the self-effulgent acarya and let the glow worms pass by in the night.

 

 

 

Let the children become over-enamored by the little lights of the fireflies. One who is serious about God realization must wait for the dawning of the sun.

[Kulapavana]

why should we be alarmed that some devotee wants to act as a guru? is it envy, perhaps? how do we know these devotees are less then qualified? Srila Prabhupada apparently authorized some very dubious devotees to act as initiating gurus. How do we know these devotees are NOW less qualified then Bhavananda was THEN qualified, for example?

 

if some people have enough faith in these devotees to accept them as gurus, it is their choice. we can only refer them to the shastric standards of guru's qualifications and behavior.

 

in the marketplace of the Holy Name the rule is: "let the buyer beware"

[suchandra]

 

is it envy, perhaps? how do we know these devotees are less then qualified? Srila Prabhupada apparently authorized some very dubious devotees to act as initiating gurus.

It was surely something like a training camp, an experiment set-up with quite some severe loss of trustworthiness and loss of many Vaishnava soldiers. But Prabhupada put it away and took it into account that the result will be that finally Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan movement would survive and gradually become settled at the overtaking lane.

"Let the buyer beware", is the right circumlocution of the GBC's disconcertment to stop Vaishnavas like Kratu Prabhu.

 

"I am very much pleased with your preaching enthusiasm, when you say, "If people won't come to us, here, we will go to them." And this is the process of preaching, and this is required. I thank you very much for your this spirit. Just like I have come to your country, with the same spirit. Actually, still even in so much fallen condition of India, if one has to learn spiritual science, then he must consult some bona fide spiritual master, in India. That is the opinion of a great Chinese author. So people are not going there, neither Government has any arrangement to educate this spiritual science.

 

So therefore I have come to your country, and those who are eager to receive, they are coming to us. In this way, we have to forward our mission. We may not expect good behavior from people where we go to preach, still we have to do that. The best example is Lord Jesus Christ, he was crucified by the people who were not very much advanced."

 

Letter to Nandini dd, Seattle, October 15, 1968

[Kali Chela Hunter]

Such wonderful things are going on in that blissful marketplace! Sri Nityananda Prabhu is selling the pure Holy Name wholesale, merely for the price of ones faith.No currency needed,nothing else to buy!

[cbrahma]

The formal diksa mania is on. It is a religious - not a transcendantal obsession. It generates cheaters and unqualified kanisthas who are quite happy to stage a fire sacrifice for the seva and the daksina all in the name of parampara.

What a collosal joke.

[Audarya-lila dasa]

Diksha is not a formality. It is only so for one who doesn't understand properly. A serious student will realize that good company is a necessity for actual advancement.

 

Diksha is never a mere formality - real diksha is the necessity of any genuine spiritual aspirant. The requirement is genuine dedication. Where shall the genuine aspirant serve? How will such an aspirant make progress toward the goal of loving Krsna? General instructions are there for everyone - Sravanam, Kirtanam, Krsna smaranam, follow certain principles meant to help you develop sensitivity and elevate you to goodness, sadhu sanga etc. For specific instructions - those are given by a sadhu in whom the genuine aspirant has faith and in whom he/she sees their highest prospect.

 

Diksha is not some trivial thing or some formality. It is a loving exchange of faith between an advanced vaishnava and a genuine aspirant.

 

It is important to understand that the real necessity of Diksha is not something that is forced or can be institutionalized. The real necessity comes in the heart of the devotee when he/she is ready to begin the process of dedication in earnest. Krsna reciprocates with us all according to our interest in him. He comes as Sri Guru to those who are at the stage where they can see him there and are ready to take shelter in a more focused and personal way.

 

If you really want to be Krsna conscious - associate with like minded people and find someone who is advanced in their practice that can help inspire you to improve and deepen your own practice.

[gHari]

 

Who is correct? are they both corect? or is 1 off them a kali chela

When proven wrong in black and white, the so-called "Kali Chela Hunter" did not retract his insinuation - thereby revealing himself to be the Kali Chela? Is it not? Where is the integrity, the sincerity? It is only misplaced adrenalin and arrogance.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

When proven wrong in black and white, the so-called "Kali Chela Hunter" did not retract his insinuation - thereby revealing himself a Kali Chela? Is it not? Where is the integrity? It is only misplaced adrenalin.

Ha ha ha!!

 

I was going to advise "Kali Chela Hunter" to hunt himself, but thought better of it. Now, you have emboldened me!!

 

[cbrahma]

 

Diksha is not a formality. It is only so for one who doesn't understand properly. A serious student will realize that good company is a necessity for actual advancement.

 

Diksha is never a mere formality - real diksha is the necessity of any genuine spiritual aspirant. The requirement is genuine dedication. Where shall the genuine aspirant serve? How will such an aspirant make progress toward the goal of loving Krsna? General instructions are there for everyone - Sravanam, Kirtanam, Krsna smaranam, follow certain principles meant to help you develop sensitivity and elevate you to goodness, sadhu sanga etc. For specific instructions - those are given by a sadhu in whom the genuine aspirant has faith and in whom he/she sees their highest prospect.

 

Diksha is not some trivial thing or some formality. It is a loving exchange of faith between an advanced vaishnava and a genuine aspirant.

 

It is important to understand that the real necessity of Diksha is not something that is forced or can be institutionalized. The real necessity comes in the heart of the devotee when he/she is ready to begin the process of dedication in earnest. Krsna reciprocates with us all according to our interest in him. He comes as Sri Guru to those who are at the stage where they can see him there and are ready to take shelter in a more focused and personal way.

 

If you really want to be Krsna conscious - associate with like minded people and find someone who is advanced in their practice that can help inspire you to improve and deepen your own practice.

ISKCON identifies diksa with a fire sacrifice even when it's by a fallen guru.

A friend of mine was initiated by Rameswara (Robert Grant) up to brahmana.

He never chanted gayatri and doesn't take the diksa seriously anymore. But the temple devotees still treat him like he's initiated. I on the other hand did not fall for this guru and am treated second class because I didn't get the phoney diksa.

[suchandra]

 

Diksha is not a formality. It is only so for one who doesn't understand properly. A serious student will realize that good company is a necessity for actual advancement.

 

Diksha is never a mere formality - real diksha is the necessity of any genuine spiritual aspirant. The requirement is genuine dedication. Where shall the genuine aspirant serve? How will such an aspirant make progress toward the goal of loving Krsna? General instructions are there for everyone - Sravanam, Kirtanam, Krsna smaranam, follow certain principles meant to help you develop sensitivity and elevate you to goodness, sadhu sanga etc. For specific instructions - those are given by a sadhu in whom the genuine aspirant has faith and in whom he/she sees their highest prospect.

 

Diksha is not some trivial thing or some formality. It is a loving exchange of faith between an advanced vaishnava and a genuine aspirant.

 

It is important to understand that the real necessity of Diksha is not something that is forced or can be institutionalized. The real necessity comes in the heart of the devotee when he/she is ready to begin the process of dedication in earnest. Krsna reciprocates with us all according to our interest in him. He comes as Sri Guru to those who are at the stage where they can see him there and are ready to take shelter in a more focused and personal way.

 

If you really want to be Krsna conscious - associate with like minded people and find someone who is advanced in their practice that can help inspire you to improve and deepen your own practice.

These statements clearly break down the permanent condition of what we have right now - different camps of Vaishnavas who seem to never ever will be seen working together to conjointly push forward Lord Caitanya's great Sankirtan movement and save humanity from this dangerous kali-yuga. An age were almost 100% of the world population won't get the human form of life again but glide down to lower species of life. On the other hand the process for successful God realization is in no other age so easy and at no other age the mercy of the Golden Avatar Lord Gauranga so easily obtainable. Demigods are standing in line to take birth in this age in order to practice chanting of Hare Krishna and attain perfection.

 

"Therefore Krishna, when He appeared on this planet, His last instruction was that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ: [Bg. 18.66] “You just surrender to Me, and after giving up all your mental speculation, so-called religious system…” This is real religious system. So He left behind Him the Bhagavad-gītā to open our eyes, but we did not take much care of it. Therefore five hundred years ago Lord Caitanya appeared. He is Krishna. He practically taught how to accept instruction of Krishna.

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]

He also appeared as devotee of Krishna. Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He can command, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], but here Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared as a devotee, ideal devotee of Krishna, Krishna Caitanya.

namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya- nāmne gaura-tviṣe namaḥ [Madhya 19.53]

The Rūpa Gosvāmī offered his first prayer to Caitanya Mahāprabhu that “You are the mahā-vadānyāvatāra, most munificent incarnation.” Why? Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te: “Even Krishna could not convince people about His supremacy, but You are so kind that You are giving love of Krishna.” Love of Krishna. Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Madhya 19.53] That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s gift."

 

 

 

Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.100-108

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

Bombay, November 9, 1975

[Kali Chela Hunter]

 

When proven wrong in black and white, the so-called "Kali Chela Hunter" did not retract his insinuation - thereby revealing himself to be the Kali Chela? Is it not? Where is the integrity, the sincerity? It is only misplaced adrenalin and arrogance.

 

Well theres your answer,it is this kind of attitude that breeds and fosters "self appointed gurus"

[Kali Chela Hunter]

 

Ha ha ha!!

 

I was going to advise "Kali Chela Hunter" to hunt himself, but thought better of it. Now, you have emboldened me!!

 

 

Again point proven!

[krsna]

 

 

<TABLE width="80%" align=center><TBODY><TR><TD>

 

"Counteracting Kali-yuga"

Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.7.32-33

Vrndavana, September 27, 1976

 

listen

 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<HR width="60%" color=#ff0000 SIZE=1>

 

Pradyumna:"Thus seeing the disturbance of the general populace and the imminent destruction of the planets, Arjuna at once retracted both brahmastra weapons, as Lord Sri Krsna desired. Arjuna, his eyes blazing in anger like two red balls of copper, dexterously arrested the son of Gautami and bound him with ropes, like an animal."

Prabhupada:

prajopadravam alaksya

loka-vyatikaram ca tam

matam ca vasudevasya

sanjahararjuno dvayam

tata asadya tarasa

darunam gautami-sutam

babandhamarsa-tamraksah

pasum rasanaya yatha

Prajopadravam alaksya. This is the duty of the king or the government -- to see that the citizens are in peaceful condition. So two brahmastra weapons released, one by Asvatthama and by Arjuna, it created a havoc, catastrophe. And the people were suffering. So this is the duty of the government, to see that everyone is in peaceful condition. During Maharaja Yudhisthira's time they were so happy that it is stated that there was not even scorching heat and pinching cold also. Neither people were in anxiety for their livelihood. This is government: to see that people are in good atmosphere in everything. That is the first duty of the government. Of course, we have seen at the present moment also, in some of the European government they have got very good arrangement. In England I have seen, although they have lost their empire, still, people get free education, free medical treatment. And England does not produce practically anything except potato. They, the government imports so many eatables so that people may not suffer for want of food. So that is the way of good government from the time immemorial.

So according to Vedic system, the government has to look after about the ultimate goal of life also. The modern government, they are anxious to give material comforts, but formerly the aim was to, how to educate people for spiritual advancement of life. Therefore the society was divided into four higher and lower divisions: brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra. You cannot make one class of men. That is not very good arrangement. There must be different departments according to capacity. You cannot engage a sudra in a brahmana's position, neither you can engage a brahmana in the sudra's position. But every one of them should be cooperating. Not that everyone has got the same capacity. Combinedly, they should make progress, and that progress is yajna. Yajna. Yajna means how to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead Visnu, Lord Visnu. Lord Visnu's another name is Yajna-pati, Yajnesvara. So in the Bhagavad-gita it is clearly stated... (coughs strongly) Water. Hmm. Another rascal. While drinking water they have to take. Yajnarthat karmano 'nyatra loko 'yam karma-bandhanah [bg. 3.9]. People have to be trained up to work for Yajna. Yajnartha. If you do not act for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord, yajnarthe, yajnarthe karma, otherwise karma-bandhanah: you become bound up or conditioned by your work.

So these things are there, and it is the duty of the government to see how things are going on. But it is simply now dream. People are also not interested what is the aim of life, what is the mission of this human form of life; neither there is guidance. There are so many upadravas. That is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means that people will be more and more unhappy. Prayena alpayusah kalav asmin yuge janah. The first thing is that the duration of life will decrease, alpa-ayusa. And manda, all bad men. Hardly we'll find any good men. Manda. Manda means bad and slow. Both the meanings can be manda. Manda-gati. They're not interested in progressive life. That is also manda. Manda matayah. And they have got their own opinions. They do not follow the standard path, and it is confirmed by the so-called leaders, yata mata tata patha, you can manufacture your own way of life. These are the situation of upadrava. Mandah sumanda-matayo manda-bhagyah [sB 1.1.10]. And this Kali-yuga, everyone is unfortunate, manda-bhagyah. Even in family... There is no family life. It is now increasing. They cannot live even peacefully in family. Family means husband, wife, children, father, mother. Generally, this is family. So in the family also there are enemies. This is prominent nowadays. The family is...

How in the family one become enemy? Canakya Pandita has analyzed how in the family we can become enemies of one another. Canakya Pandita says, rna-karta pita satruh: "A father in debts to others is enemy." Rna-karta pita satruh. Because according to Manu-samhita, the son inherits the property of the father. That is everywhere. So Manu-samhita also makes responsible the son for the father's debt. Nowadays, if my father is debtor, I am not responsible. But according to the Vedic laws, the son is responsible the father's debt. Because he inherits the property, why he shall not inherit the debts of the father? According to Manu-samhita law he is obliged to pay the debts of the father. We have seen one very practical example. Even fifty years ago, in Calcutta there was a very big barrister. He was a political leader. He was Mr. C.R. Das. So his father died insolvent. His father was also very respectable man, but later on he became so much debtor that he died insolvent. Declared... This Mr. C. R. Das, he did not get any property from the father, but by his practice as a barrister he became very rich man. In those days his monthly income was fifty thousand rupees. So he called all the creditors of his father and paid paisa to paisa, that "My father died in debtor. Now I have got money, you can take." So this is the duty of the son. But if one is poor man, he cannot pay. So he becomes a subject matter of criticism. Under the circumstances the father becomes the enemy. So therefore the Canakya Pandita's enunciation, rna-karta pita satruh. And mata satrur vyabhicarini. And if the mother, either she becomes prostitute or marries for the second time in the presence of elderly children, she is enemy. Rna-karta pita satrur mata satrur vyabhicarini. And Canakya Pandita had very bad experience with his wife. So he says, rupavati bharya satruh: "If the wife is very beautiful, she is enemy." And putrah satrur apanditah: "And if the son is a rascal, no education, he is enemy." So these are the family enemies.

So everything is there in the Vedic literature, instruction how family should be maintained, how the aim of life should be fulfilled. Everything is, guidance is there. As I have repeatedly said, that veda-purana, the aim of life being forgotten, krsna bhuli' anadi-bahirmukha jiva krsna bhuli' gela. Caitanya-caritamrta. Ataeva krsna veda-purana karila(?). So the Vedas, Puranas are there. The instructions are there. Just like here is instruction: matam ca vasudevasya. Matam. The opinion should be taken from Vasudeva, Krsna. That opinion is already there in the Bhagavad-gita, Vasudeva personally giving instruction, but we neither take moral instruction, neither Vasudeva's instruction, neither we have got any intelligence. This is Kali-yuga. Mudha. Generally, we are mudha, especially in the Kali-yuga. Mandah sumanda-matayo manda-bhagya hy upadrutah [sB 1.1.10]. Here it is said, prajopadravam. So many upadravas. Actually, we are very much harassed on account of the time, place, circumstances, so on, so on. It is a very hopeless condition. Therefore sastra has recommended that "You chant Hare Krsna." It is very hopeless condition. Harer nama. Harer nama harer nama eva kevalam [Adi 17.21]. Three. Three times. When you speak three times anything, it means I am giving stress, "You do this, you do this, you do this." So it is like that, that in order to stop so many inconveniences of the present day life, Kali-yuga... Kali means quarrel, simply creating quarrel, misunderstanding. This is Kali. So sastra has given us... Kali-yuga is very dangerous to... One cannot make his life's mission fulfilled. One is not very happy. There are so many obstacles in the peaceful way of life. Even in the family, in the society, politically, nationally, internationally -- so many difficulties. Everyone has got the experience. Therefore the recommendation of the sastra, harer nama harer nama harer nama eva kevalam [Adi 17.21]. Kevalam. You cannot rectify all these difficulties, because this is the age for all these difficulties. You must know it. They are trying to mitigate all these difficulties in different ways, but sastra says that it is not possible. Only, it is possible only by chanting the harer nama, the holy name of the Lord. The holy name of the Lord is Krsna, Rama. Other names are there, but they are subordinate. Not subordinate. There is no question of "superior" or "inferior" in the holy name of the Lord. But we have to pick up the order of the sastras. Tasmad sastra-vidhanokta As the sastra gives regulative, we have to accept that. And if we do not accept that, yah sastra-vidhim utsrjya vartate kama-karatah, if we do whimsically, then na siddhim savapnoti, you cannot get any perfection of life, na sukham, neither you'll be happy.

So it is the injunction of the sastra, and Caitanya Mahaprabhu also inaugurated this Hare Krsna movement for the benefit of the whole world. And it is being accepted practically. So this is the only way to save us from all kinds of difficulties, upadrava. Upadrutah. Mandah sumanda-matayo manda-bhagya hy upadrutah [sB 1.1.10]. There will be upadruta, so many times. So we should accept, matam ca vasudevasya. We should accept the instruction given by Vasudeva and the sastra, sadhu. Sadhu, sastra, guru, they'll speak the same thing. Guru means who speaks on the basis of sastra; otherwise he's not guru. And sastra means the opinion of the great authorities. Just like Vyasadeva, Parasara Muni, Narada Muni, modern acaryas. We do not neglect. We may differ from the philosophical point of view -- just like Buddha, Sankaracarya. Vaisnavas, they do not accept the philosophy of Buddha or Sankaracarya. Buddha's philosophy: zero, sunyavadi; and Sankara's philosophy: nirvisesa-vadi, impersonal. So we defy these, nirvisesa-sunyavadi. But we have got all respect for them. Don't think that we disrespect. Kesava dhrta-buddha-sarira jaya jagadisa hare. And the Vaisnavas know Sankaracarya. Sankara, svayam sankara, he is incarnation of Lord Siva, and Lord Buddha is incarnation of Krsna. So they come for particular purpose, to benefit the whole world. But that is for the time being. That is not permanent. The permanent solution is matam ca vasudevasya. That is permanent. Matam ca vasudevasya. That is permanent.

So vasudevasya matam? Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [bg. 18.66]. This is vasudevasya. "You simply surrender unto Me." That is real mata. Everyone is surrendered. Even Sankaracarya says bhagavad-gita kincid adhita(?). If you read little, a portion of Bhagavad-gita, your life will be successful. That is the recommendation given by... Sva bhagavan svayam krsna vasudeva devaki-vasudevasya nandana(?). He has admitted. Narayanah parah avyaktat. Actually nirvisesa-vada is for this material world because it is mithya. They say, the Shankarites, they say mithya. We Vaisnavas, we don't say mithya, because mithya it cannot be. If the Absolute Truth is true, how mithya can come from the param satyam? Brahma satyam. If Brahman is truth, how... Janmady asya yatah [sB 1.1.1], everything is born from Brahman. How something can be untruth? No. That is not. Truth is there, but when we misunderstand the truth or misuse the truth, then we are in trouble. That is Vaisnava philosophy. We have to find out what is the truth in everything. And that can be understood when you are advanced. Vasudevah sarvam iti [bg. 7.19]. Sarvam khalv idam brahma. Here is truth. Nothing can be mithya; everything is truth. We have to find out the truth.

So what is that truth? The truth is that isavasyam idam sarvam, everything is God's creation. And Krsna, the Supreme Lord, God says, bhoktaram yajna-tapasam sarva-loka-mahesvaram [bg. 5.29]. He is the proprietor, but we do not understand that, that truth, that He is the proprietor. We are creating our proprietorship. That is untruth. That is untruth. That is mithya. Jagan mithya. Jagat is not mithya, but our behavior with the jagat, or the world, is mithya. Jagat is not mithya. How it can be mithya? Janmady asya yatah [sB 1.1.1]. It is coming, emanating from the Absolute Truth. It is truth. Therefore we have to find out the truth, what is that truth. That is described by Srila Rupa Gosvami:

prapancikataya buddhya

hari-sambandhi-vastunah

mumuksubhih parityago

vairagyam phalgu kathyate

If we give up everything as mithya, prapancikataya, material... Hari-sambandhi-vastunah. Because everything is in connection with Hari, His energy. So do not reject things as jagan mithya. Do not reject. Prapancikataya buddhya hari-sambandhi-vastunah. Do not reject, but utilize it properly. That is wanted.

So if we actually follow matam ca vasudevasya, and if we want to stop the upadrava, the disturbances of this material world, as Arjuna is following under the instruction of Krsna... He's doing everything under the instruction of Krsna. But he's doing political, he's counteracting with this brahmastra another brahmastra. As a military man, he's doing his duty, but he's doing everything under the instruction of Krsna. That is wanted. That is truth. Don't do anything thinking yourself as independent. You cannot be independent. If you don't accept matam ca vasudevasya, then by the ear you'll be pulled by the maya to do something. You'll be obliged to do something. You are not independent. As soon as we forget this principle, we become fool enough to consider as independent: "I am as good as... I am God." That is rascaldom. That is rascaldom. So 'ham. So 'ham, that does not mean that "I am as good as. I am God." No. I cannot be God because I am under the obligation of the laws of nature.

prakrteh kriyamanani

gunaih karmani sarvasah

ahankara-vimudhatma

kartaham iti manyate

[bg. 3.27]

You cannot be independent. You are not independent. If you falsely think that you are as good as God or you are independent, that is ahankara-vimudha. Ahankara-vimudhatma.

So following the mahajanas, the principles, as Arjuna is doing, we must follow the instructions of Krsna. That is fully explained in the Bhagavad-gita. And surrender unto Him. And then our life will be successful. There will be no disturbances. Otherwise, if we declare independence, that is troublesome. It will create simply trouble. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [bg. 7.14]. That is maya. To think oneself independent is maya. We are not independent. We are completely under the control. So, so long we declare independence we suffer. And if we remain fully dependent on the will of Krsna, Vasudeva, then we are happy.

Thank you very much. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.7.32-33 -- Vrndavana, September 27, 1976

 

[Kali Chela Hunter]

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Of course, to search out a guru is very nice, but if you want a cheap guru, or if you want to be cheated, then you will find many cheating gurus. But if you are sincere, you will find a sincere guru. Because people want everything very cheaply, they are cheated. We ask our students to refrain from illicit sex, meat-eating, gambling, and intoxication. People think that this is all very difficult,a botheration. But if someone else says, "You may do whatever nonsense you like, simply take my mantra," then people will like him. The point is that people want to be cheated, and therefore cheaters come. No one wants to undergo any austerity. Human life is meant for austerity, but no one is prepared to undergo austerity. Consequently, cheaters come and say, "No austerity. Whatever you like, you do. Simply pay me, and I'll give you some mantra, and you'll become God in six months." All this is going on. If you want to be cheated like this, the cheaters will come.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Again point proven!

 

Which point? The point that you're acting like a boob?

[Kali Chela Hunter]

you obviously like to be cheated! it seems you like to laugh too at others,ideal fodder for the cheaters