God- Explain

[Redsox]

What is God?

[gHari]

Existence.

[Beggar]

From "Sri Guru and His Grace", Chapter Nine:

 

Our guru maharaja gave the example that if one is born in the darkness of a dungeon, and someone proposes "Let us go see the sun," then the prisoner will carry a lantern in his hand saying "Oh, you will show me the sun?"

"Yes. Come with me. Leave your lantern behind. No light is necessary to see the sun."

"Are you trying to fool me? Nothing can be seen without the help of a light."

His friend will catch him and forcibly take the prisoner into the sunlight. "Do you see the sun?" And the prisoner will say, "Oh, this is the sun! By sunlight alone we can see the sun." One will have that sort of experience when he comes in connection with the truth. Neither calculation, nor evidence, nor witness, but only direct experience is proof that Krsna is there, like the sun.

In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said, atma parijnanamayo : what to speak of Krsna, even the conscious unit is self effulgent. A certain section says, "There is God. Surely He exists." Others say, "No, there is no God, He never existed." This quarrel is useless; still it will continue. In a particular section this argument will have no end. Those who have no eyes will be unable to see the sun. They will say there is no sun (mattah para-nistat amsa-lokam ). This misconception will continue for those who deny the existence of both the soul and the Supreme soul. For those who have direct experience, however, there is no question: it exists! But for the owl section who cannot admit the existence of the sun, the sun does not exist. It is something like that. Our own realization of a thing will be the greatest proof of its existence: vastu-tattva-jnana haya krpate.

One may be born blind, but if somehow or other his eyes are opened, he will be astonished to see the particular aspects of the environment. But if one has no vision, he can see no color or figure. Those who have vision will feel, "How can I deny the fact? I have seen it. I am feeling it, it is so magnanimous, so great and so benevolent, I can't deny all these things. You are unfortunate; you cannot see." Some see, some cannot see. In the same place, one can see, another cannot. Those to whom Krsna wishes to reveal himself can see him; others cannot.

The Universal Form

In the assembly of the Kurus, when Krsna went to Duryodhana's party with a proposal for peace between the Pandavas and the Kauravas, Duryodhana thought, "Now we have our golden chance. If I can put Krsna in the prison-house now, then the Pandavas will die broken-hearted, and there will be no question of fighting with them." The Kauravas also joined in the scheme, and they told Duhsasana, "Go and bind Krsna with this rope." Duhsasana came with the rope in his hand and tried to bind Krsna. Satyaki, Krsna's attendant, was there, and he furiously came at Duhsasana with a sword. Krsna peacefully caught hold of his hand, and began to manifest himself in such a way that it perplexed Duhsasana .

When Duhsasana saw the universal form displayed by Krsna, he thought, "So many figures appear before me. On whom shall I put the rope? Who shall I bind down?" So many figures were displayed by Krsna in his universal form. On one side there was Baladeva and on another side stood Arjuna, and so many revered risis, chanting Krsna's name. Duhsasana was perplexed. And Bhisma and Drona began to sing in praise of Krsna. Everyone thought, "What is this? This is a magnificent vision, with so many faces!" The whole atmosphere was filled with the divine spirit. Then, Devarsi Narada and so many risis began to chant in praise of Krsna. And in this way Krsna manifested his universal form before the assembly.

Dhrtarastra was blind, but he could hear them all praising Krsna, and thought to himself, "Some sort of wonderful things are happening around me, but I can't see." And so, he prayed to Krsna. "O Lord, for the moment please remove my blindness. I would like to see your great manifestation. Afterwards, you can make me blind again, but at least for the time being, remove my blindness." Krsna told him, "There is no necessity of removing your blindness. I say that you can see, and you can see." By the Lord's will alone, even physical blindness was no bar to seeing that great manifestation of Krsna. So, the physical eye can't see God: only the divine eye can see him. And by the will of Krsna, the divine eye was temporarily given to Dhrtarastra. His blindness did not stand in the way of his vision, and he could see Krsna.

Ultrasonic Sound

The ability to recognize divinity descends from above. We cannot see God with our mundane senses. What to speak of being able to see the infinite, our senses are so limited that our ears can only hear sound of a particular wavelength. We are told that the sun, the moon, and all the stars and planets are all revolving and creating a huge sound, but our ears cannot hear that high degree of ultrasonic sound. Nor can we hear subsonic sound with our ears. Our eyes are designed to catch only a particular wavelength of light. We cannot see either ultraviolet or infrared light. Our matenal senses are limited to a particular plane of perception.

Student: The guru accepts the responsibility to take his disciples back to godhead. So, when the guru departs how does the disciple maintain contact with the guru?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: You see, it comes to the same point. Who is guru? And why is he guru? Guru, sastra, and sadhu are one and the same thing, and we have to appreciate that. Otherwise, should we think that our onward march will be guaranteed only by the vision of our eyes? The photo of our spiritual master is not our guru, although the photo has some connection with the real guru. The eye experience and the ear experience of a person is not the whole experience. The real experience is through the words, the idea that the guru has given. That is Krsna consciousness.

[Vigraha]

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD>

 

 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[krsna]

KRSNA

is the

Supreme Personality of Godhead.

You and I are

His tiny servants.

 

 

:pray: :pray:

[theist]

Another way to approach the question is to ask, "What is not God?"

 

Everything is God and yet at the same time God is independent of everything. To fulfill the meaning of the word God God must be beyond all limitations. Simply being everything is itself a limitation to Him.

 

Inconceivable. Therefore we humbly bow before Him and acknowledge His glory.

[vedicnotes]

God is the eternal, infinite, imperceptible ocean of bliss Who knows how to reflect our love, one of His own attributes, by appearing before us in the form we select for Him. Needless to say, He transcends pretty much everything we think about.

[mahak]

<center>

 

 

 

For the atheist, I am Death.

 

 

</center>

[theist]

Why death Mahak?

[cbrahma]

God is the Absolute Truth, the One without a Second-

He is unlimited yet has unlimted forms.

He is the energy and the energetic

He is the source of all spiritual and material worlds.

 

Bhagavad Gita Chapter 10

 

<center>

Text 8

 

aham sarvasya prabhavo

 

mattah sarvam pravartate

iti matva bhajante mam

budha bhava-samanvitah

</center>

 

 

 

Translation

I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.

 

 

 

 

Commentary by Srila Prabhupada

A learned scholar who has studied the Vedas perfectly and has information from authorities like Lord Caitanya and who knows how to apply these teachings can understand that Krishna is the origin of everything in both the material and spiritual worlds, and because he knows this perfectly he becomes firmly fixed in the devotional service of the Supreme Lord. He can never be deviated by any amount of nonsensical commentaries or by fools. All Vedic literature agrees that Krishna is the source of Brahma, Shiva and all other demigods. In the Atharva Veda (Gopala-tapani Upanishad 1.24) it is said, yo brahmanam vidadhati purvam yo vai vedams ca gapayati sma krishnah: “It was Krishna who in the beginning instructed Brahma in Vedic knowledge and who disseminated Vedic knowledge in the past.” Then again the Narayana Upanishad (1) says, atha purusho ha vai narayano ’kamayata prajah srjeyeti: “Then the Supreme Personality Narayana desired to create living entities.”

The Upanishad continues, narayanad brahma jayate, narayanad prajapatih prajayate, narayanad indro jayate, narayanad astau vasavo jayante, narayanad ekadasa rudra jayante, narayanad dvadasadityah: “From Narayana, Brahma is born, and from Narayana the patriarchs are also born. From Narayana, Indra is born, from Narayana the eight Vasus are born, from Narayana the eleven Rudras are born, from Narayana the twelve Adityas are born.” This Narayana is an expansion of Krishna.

It is said in the same Vedas, brahmanyo devaki-putrah: “The son of Devaki, Krishna, is the Supreme Personality.”

(Narayana Upanishad 4) Then it is said, eko vai narayana asin na brahma na isano napo nagni-samau neme dyav-aprithivi na nakshatrani na suryah: “In the beginning of the creation there was only the Supreme Personality Narayana. There was no Brahma, no Shiva, no water, no fire, no moon, no stars in the sky, no sun.” (Maha Upanishad 1) In the Maha Upanishad it is also said that Lord Shiva was born from the forehead of the Supreme Lord. Thus the Vedas say that it is the Supreme Lord, the creator of Brahma and Shiva, who is to be worshiped.

In the Moksha-dharma Krishna also says,

 

 

 

 

prajapatim ca rudram capy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

aham eva srijami vai

 

 

tau hi mam na vijanito

 

 

mama maya-vimohitau

 

“The patriarchs, Shiva and others are created by Me, though they do not know that they are created by Me because they are deluded by My illusory energy.” In the Varaha Purana it is also said,

 

 

 

narayanah paro devas

 

 

 

tasmaj jatas caturmukhah

 

 

tasmad rudro ’bhavad devah

 

 

sa ca sarva-jnatam gatah

 

 

 

“Narayana is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and from Him Brahma was born, from whom Shiva was born.”

Lord Krishna is the source of all generations, and He is called the most efficient cause of everything. He says, “Because everything is born of Me, I am the original source of all. Everything is under Me; no one is above Me.” There is no supreme controller other than Krishna. One who understands Krishna in such a way from a bona fide spiritual master, with references from Vedic literature, engages all his energy in Krishna consciousness and becomes a truly learned man. In comparison to him, all others, who do not know Krishna properly, are but fools. Only a fool would consider Krishna to be an ordinary man. A Krishna conscious person should not be bewildered by fools; he should avoid all unauthorized commentaries and interpretations on Bhagavad-gita and proceed in Krishna consciousness with determination and firmness.

 

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Why death Mahak?

Doesn't the Bible say, "the wages of sin is death?"

 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=6&verse=23&version=31&context=verse

 

 

Romans 6:23 (New International Version)

 

New International Version (NIV) 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

 

 

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[mahak]

Death is the most tangible form of God for everyone, especially the atheist. As Prahlada tried to get his classmates to understand, there is no putting our service to God off, because every moment wasted is just that, wasted.

 

Even the great atheist Engles demonstrated at the grave of Karl Marx, God does have form there. Oppenheimer, when watching the first nuclear blast, quoted the verse I mentioned. Death is the great equalizer, without it, there is no incentive to even think about God. Without it, there is, at most, raja, tama, and sattwa guna. But death puts urgency in our quest, theism takes place for the sane. But the atheist has no quest, so Krsna tells Arjuna this is how he makes himself known to such persons.

 

Kinda like Quinn the EskimO. Dylan says "when quinn the eskimo gets here, everybody gonna run to him." Is there such a universal running? No, all the theists do is fight about Gode, there is no equalizer. So cmon without, cmon within, youll not see nothing like the mighty quinn.

 

Why? Because of the mahajanas, Lord Yamaraja has always made the most sense to me, and Vidura and Sri Yudhisthira, also manifestations of Lord Yamaraja, carry nothing but righteousness and full God Consciousness in their words and deeds.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Redsox]

God kills atheists?

[theist]

 

God kills atheists?

 

God as time kills everyone the sinner and the saint. The saint is not disturbed but the atheist is disturbed because he must admit there is a supreme force afterall. So what this means is that is the only form of God that an atheist will appreciate but it is also one that the atheist cannot avoid.

 

Krsna loves the sinner and the saint and desires the ultimate wellfare for both. We are not saying God hates atheists. That would be very superfical and silly.

[Redsox]

One more question.

What makes you inferior to God?

[theist]

 

One more question.

What makes you inferior to God?

 

Well we are first of all part of God so we share in His glory to a limited degree. God can and has produced an umlimted number of other eternal living beings. It is amazing when you think on it. God has given us the gift existence itself. I cannot do that. This is one way in which God is superior to all other souls.

[Redsox]

thats reason enough to make you inferior to God?

[Redsox]

I am not trying to wreck your belief system here, but the way i understand it... God needs me.

He would not have been a "God" if he was the only one who existed.

Prabhupada: "“Then the Supreme Personality Narayana desired to create living entities.”

He creates us , but who was he before he created us , was he "God"?

He created us, then who is he now? He is "God". Because he has the power to create.

In a sense then , we created him too, because he is called "God" by us after he created us.

[gHari]

 

One more question.

 

What makes you inferior to God?

God explains in the Bhagavad-gita 7.7:

 

"

Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread

".

We are the pearls; He is the thread .... and the necklace .... and in a sense even the pearls. Upon His EXISTENCE, we are strung - we have no independent existence. He .... just Is.

 

It's a big big word, bigger than all the words on the internet together:

<center>

<H1>EXISTENCE</center></h1>

[gHari]

Yes, He loves His devotees even more than His very Self. He feels He can never repay them for their love.

[theist]

 

I am not trying to wreck your belief system here, but the way i understand it... God needs me.

He would not have been a "God" if he was the only one who existed.

Prabhupada: "“Then the Supreme Personality Narayana desired to create living entities.”

He creates us , but who was he before he created us , was he "God"?

He created us, then who is he now? He is "God". Because he has the power to create.

In a sense then , we created him too, because he is called "God" by us after he created us.

 

Have no fear our beliefs are not threatened. OK you see God as needing you. That is all right. If He needs something from you then by fulfilling that need out of love you are then His devotee. As gHari points out Krsna never feels He can repay His devotee for his devotees service and love. The devotee also knows he cannot repay the Lord. So there is a type of mutual dependence between the lover and the beloved based on love.

[Redsox]

Thanks for clearing that up, I don't think we were ever inferior to God and the devotees who claim that are wrong. I know I don't have to feel like a pathetic, next to nothing garbage or trash can when compared to god, its good when someone else verifies the same thing, even if it is on the internet.

[gHari]

The intimacy evolves: from feeling like nothing to feeling like a speck of dust at His feet, to feeling like His servant, to feeling like an equal as a friend, to feeling like His superior as a protective parent, to finally being so madly in love that we can't consider who is greatest - just like romantic lovers drowning helplessly in an ocean of love.

 

He enjoys the more intimate relationships more. He doesn't need to be treated like God. He IS God.

[Beggar]

 

Thanks for clearing that up, I don't think we were ever inferior to God and the devotees who claim that are wrong. I know I don't have to feel like a pathetic, next to nothing garbage or trash can when compared to god, its good when someone else verifies the same thing, even if it is on the internet.

 

Just like mundane lust is like iron and spiritual madhurya rasa is compared to gold, in the same way mundane shame is a self-destructive emotion and the "shame" of the truly advanced devotees is a bhava or spiritual ecstacy. Beating ourselves up because we are not meeting the real standards of sadhana bhakti can backfire and cause of us to give up the entire process. Everything depends on our sincerity and intentions, we must have some faith that the Lord will protect us. Yes, I'm talking to my own mind.

[theist]

 

The intimacy evolves: from feeling like nothing to feeling like a speck of dust at His feet, to feeling like His servant, to feeling like an equal as a friend, to feeling like His superior as a protective parent, to finally being so madly in love that we can't consider who is greatest - just like romantic lovers drowning helplessly in an ocean of love.

 

He enjoys the more intimate relationships more. He doesn't need to be treated like God. He IS God.

Like Beggar explains it is just false humility. We embarrass ourselves by such displays. God is greater than us no doubt. The Father is greater than the child. But the father sees the child as part of himself he doesn't just strut around making his own child feel like a worthless peice of ***t. Krsna is very very secure and self confident. He doesn't need to prop up His ego by putting His creation down.

 

When we falsely criticize ourselves in such ways are we not casting dispersions upon a child of God a apart of God Himself? We should have respect for ourselves in our connection with the Supreme Lord. The soul is naturally humble in the pure state, there is no need to fake it.

 

Anyway most of us have made and make this same mistake for we are only in the process of learning and that goes for other devotees also so no need to worry about others doing that.

 

But there is danger also in the opposite direction and that is thinking we are on the level of special intimacy with the Lord when we are not on that level and failing to show proper respect to Krsna and Guru.

 

It's a fine line we are given to walk.