Are Krishna's pure devotees referred to as living entities?

[Guruvani]

When Srila Prabhupada referred to "living entities" was he including Krishna's pure devotees in that designation?

 

Does shastra refer to Krishna's pure devotees as "living entities"?

[Beggar]

<table><tbody><tr><td>Madhya-lila</td><td class="m">Chapter 22: The Process of Devotional Service</td></tr></tbody></table>Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Sri Caitanya Caritamrita

sei vibhinnamsa jiva -- dui ta' prakara

eka -- 'nitya-mukta', eka -- 'nitya-samsara'

SYNONYMS

sei vibhinna-amsa -- that separated part and parcel of Krishna; jiva -- the living entity; dui ta' prakara -- two categories; eka -- one; nitya-mukta -- eternally liberated; eka -- one; nitya-samsara -- perpetually conditioned.

CC Madhya 22.10: "The living entities [jivas] are divided into two categories. Some are eternally liberated, and others are eternally conditioned.

CC Madhya 22.11: "Those who are eternally liberated are always awake to Krishna consciousness, and they render transcendental loving service at the feet of Lord Krishna. They are to be considered eternal associates of Krishna, and they are eternally enjoying the transcendental bliss of serving Krishna.

[Vigraha]

 

When Srila Prabhupada referred to "living entities" was he including Krishna's pure devotees in that designation?

 

Does shastra refer to Krishna's pure devotees as "living entities"?

 

Yes,

 

"The Supreme Lord has TWO energies, material and spiritual. The living entities are marginal energy. As marginal energy, a person may be under the control of the material energy (Maha-maya) or the spiritual energy (Yoga- maya). SB 3.23.10 pp.

 

"Because the living being can appear either in matter or in spirit, the jiva is called the marginal potency" CC Adi 5.41 pp.

 

"The living entity (jiva-atma) takes different positions - sometimes he merges into the dark material nature and identifies himself with matter, and sometimes he identifies himself with the superior spiritual nature. THEREFORE, he is called the Lords marginal energy. " BG 8.3 pp.

 

"The fact is that individual living entities are eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, and both of them are very intimately related as friends. But the living entity has the tendency to reject the sanctions of the Supreme Lord and act independently in an attempt to dominate the supreme nature, and BECAUSE HE HAS THIS TENDENCY, he is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord. " BG 13.23 pp.

 

In the above verses, Srila Prabhupada explains that marginal energy means the TENDENCY of the living entity to reject the sanction of the Lord and act independently.

 

So, marginal energy, or tatastha-shakti, is NOT a particular place or area in outer space where souls drop from, but it denotes the NATURE of the jiva-soul. It refers to a living entity with the nature of independently choosing between the Lord's two energies. Therefore, the living entities DO NOT expand from the marginal energy, but their natures are called marginal. This marginal energy (jiva-soul) is an expansion of Lord Krishna, who is the origin of the living entities.

 

If marginal energy (the living entity with its independent nature) chooses to be in contact with the external energy of the Lord, it still remains marginal. (See CC Adi 2.96)

 

If the marginal living entity chooses to go back to the internal energy (the spiritual world), it still keeps his marginal independence. It does not change his nature into internal energy and becomes Vishnu-tattva. Although the living entities are equal in quality to the internal potency of Krishna (which is spiritual), they nevertheless keep their marginal independence. Jiva-tattva (the marginal energy) does not turn into Vishnu-tattva (the internal energy), otherwise the living entity would turn into God Himself as in Mayavadi philosophy.

 

Marginal energy can be situated either in the external or internal energy of the Lord and according to the living beings free will and contact with either the material or spiritual energies, the living being is situated in proportionally higher or lower levels of existence. If marginal energy can freely choose to be situated in either external or internal energy, then marginal energy (because of his free will) can also choose to leave either external or internal energy.

[Guruvani]

so, it appears that "jiva" is the word that means "living entity".

 

But, in this purport Srila Prabhupada says:

 

Chapter 31: The Supreme Perfection

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Teachings of Lord Caitanya

 

 

When spiritual energy is overwhelmed by ignorance, it is called marginal energy.

So, this statement doesn't include liberated nitya-muktas in the category of marginal as marginal in this statement requires to be overwhelmed by ignorance.

[Sarva gattah]

Guruvani's understanding of the marginal living entity is incorrect. He says - "So, it appears from these two references that marginal energy is when spiritual energy is overwhelmed by ignorance and becomes a mixture of internal and external energy. This condition does not apply to the liberated devotees of Vaikuntha/Goloka, so it seems that we cannot really apply the “marginal” designation to them".

The accurate meaning of tatastha s’akti should be correctly understood. This is explained very nicely by Urdhvaga das

"The Supreme Lord has TWO energies, material and spiritual. The living entities are marginal energy. As marginal energy, a person may be under the control of the material energy (Maha-maya) or the spiritual energy (Yoga- maya). SB 3.23.10 pp.

"Because the living being can appear either in matter or in spirit, the jiva is called the marginal potency" CC Adi 5.41 pp.

"The living entity (jiva-atma) takes different positions - sometimes he merges into the dark material nature and identifies himself with matter, and sometimes he identifies himself with the superior spiritual nature. THEREFORE, he is called the Lords marginal energy. " BG 8.3 pp.

"The fact is that individual living entities are eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, and both of them are very intimately related as friends. But the living entity has the tendency to reject the sanctions of the Supreme Lord and act independently in an attempt to dominate the supreme nature, and BECAUSE HE HAS THIS TENDENCY; he is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord. " BG 13.23 pp.

In the above verses, Srila Prabhupada explains that marginal energy means the TENDENCY of the living entity to reject the sanction of the Lord and act independently.

So, marginal energy, or tatastha-shakti, is NOT a particular place or area in outer space where souls drop from, but it denotes the NATURE of the jiva-soul. It refers to a living entity with the nature of independently choosing between the Lord's two energies. Therefore, the living entities DO NOT expand from the marginal energy, but their natures are called marginal. This marginal energy (jiva-soul) is an expansion of Lord Krishna, who is the origin of the living entities.

If marginal energy (the living entity with its independent nature) chooses to be in contact with the external energy of the Lord, it still remains marginal. (See CC Adi 2.96)

If the marginal living entity chooses to go back to the internal energy (the spiritual world), it still keeps his marginal independence. It does not change his nature into internal energy and becomes Vishnu-tattva. Although the living entities are equal in quality to the internal potency of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> (which is spiritual), they nevertheless keep their marginal independence. Jiva-tattva (the marginal energy) does not turn into Vishnu-tattva (the internal energy), otherwise the living entity would turn into God Himself as in Mayavadi philosophy.

Marginal energy can be situated either in the external or internal energy of the Lord and according to the living beings free will and contact with either the material or spiritual energies, the living being is situated in proportionally higher or lower levels of existence. If marginal energy can freely choose to be situated in either external or internal energy, then marginal energy (because of his free will) can also choose to leave either external or internal energy.

Here are excerpts from two letters the Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu regarding our 'original position'. One letter is from 1968 and one from 1969.

"Regarding your question, in one sense both you and Mahapurusa are right. The fact is that after the dissolution of the Universe the living entities remain in slumber within Maha Visnu, and again when the creation takes place they are impregnated in their original position and they come out in different species of life. By gradual evolutionary process, when they come to the human form there is good chance of getting out of the repeated birth and death, and one can enter into the Spiritual Realm. But if one loses this chance he is again put into the cycle of birth and death. The conditioned souls are always within the Maha Visnu Form, whereas the liberated souls in Vaikuntha, they are engaged in the service of the Lord. Constitutionally every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikuntha Loka, has chance of falling down.

Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore two classes are designated: eternally liberated and eternally conditioned. But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned. The Time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned. Since we cannot trace out when we have become conditioned, there is no use of arguing on this point. Better to take care first how we can get rid of this conditional existence; as much as a patient should take care for treating his disease more, and less waste his time in finding out the cause of his disease.

Please offer my blessings to the others. I hope this will meet you in good health."

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Comment -In this way the living entities are called marginal potency because they are naturally surrounded by and serving the Superior energy (Krishna and His Vishnu expansions) in their original perpetual body in Vaikuntha, or can choose to use their free will and become covered by the temporary inferior energy in the forms of decaying ethereal and biological bodies (MATERIAL) within the mahat-tattva or material creation.

The jiva-tatastha or marginal living entity can also further enter the greatest phenomenon and mystery that has perplexed so many pandits, scholars, Sadhus, yogis and Vaishavas for thousands of years, and that is a dormant dreamless state of individual consciousness that is part of a quiescent collective called the impersonal Brahmajyoti.

The Impersonal Brahman is neither the superior energy nor the inferior energy. Let me explain. Achintya-Bheda-Abheda is applicable here because <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, like the sun, is the source of the sunrays, therefore achintya-Bheda-Abheda is appropriate here because just as the analogy that the sun and the sun are inseparable, the superior energy <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> and the marginal living entity jiva-tatastha are always together and indivisible like the sun and the sunrays.

The impersonal Brahmajyoti or the ‘collective’ jiva tatasthas (marginal living entities) consequently can appear also in a dormant state of inactive consciousness that exists in-between the SUPERIOR ENERGY (<st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> and His many Vishnu expansions) and the INFERIOR ENERGY (the material lifeless creation and bodily vessels, created by one of the Lords expansions, Maha-Vishnu)

It is in this way that the Impersonal Brahman or Brahmajyoti does not represent the full potential OR Krishna conscious perpetual bodily origins of the marginal living entity that eternally is present in Goloka. The jiva-tatasthas souls situated in the Impersonal Brahmajyoti are therefore in a dreaming static state of delusional individual consciousness that, like the mahat-tattva, is also a temporary state of existence.

[Shakti-Fan]

klesa-ghni subhada moksa-

laghutakrt sudurlabha

sandrananda-visesatma

sri-krsnakarsani ca sa

"Pure devotional service brings immediate relief from all kinds of material distress. It is the beginning of all auspiciousness. It minimizes the value of liberation. It is rarely achieved, it automatically puts one in transcendental pleasure, and it is the only means to attract Krsna."

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja:

You should know this. You know sandhini, samvit, and hladini. ["The transcendental potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead by which He maintains His existence is called sandhini. The transcendental potency by which He knows Himself and causes others to know Him is called samvit. The transcendental potency by which He possesses transcendental bliss and causes His devotees to have bliss is called hladini. The total exhibition of these potencies is called visuddha-sattva." Cc.Adi.4 purp.)] On the platform of sandhini, anything transformed by sandhini is called suddha-sattva. When the essence of hladini and samvit mix together and appear on the platform of sandhini, or suddha-sattva, this is called visesatma. What is the meaning? Hladini is directly Srimati Radhika Herself, who is svarupa-sakti. The highest mood of that svarupa-sakti is the mood of hladini. This hladini mood in its highest stage, madana, is not even in Krsna, and it is this madana that Krsna wants to taste and realize. This mood is found only in the essence of hladini, who is Radhika Herself. The moods in Radhika, the moods of how to serve and please Krsna, is called maha-bhava.

What is bhava? Bhava is coming from samvit. Samvit is the potency of knowledge, but when that knowledge condensed, it is transformed into bhava, and bhava is transformed into sneha, mana, pranaya, raga, anuraga, bhava, and maha-bhava. This maha-bhava is the moods in Radhika. These moods are thus the essence of samvit and hladini, the moods of service Krsna in the highest way, and they come on the platform of suddha-sattva.

What is sattva? It is any transformation of sandhini. Within sandhini, any jiva who is liberated is called suddha-sattva, and Krsna and His svamsa or manifestations are called visuddha-sattva. Jivas are not visuddha-sattva, but they may be suddha-sattva. Asuddha-sattva are those who are not liberated, suddha-sattva are liberated, and visuddha-sattva refers to Krsna and His all incarnations including Visnu. When visuddha-sattva will combine with the essence of hladini and samvit and comes in a jiva, that essential mood to serve Krsna will be sandrananda-visesatma; otherwise not. This is very high-class. It is a very elevated.

 

[Sarva gattah]

 

What is sattva? It is any transformation of sandhini. Within sandhini, any jiva who is liberated is called suddha-sattva, and Krsna and His svamsa or manifestations are called visuddha-sattva. Jivas are not visuddha-sattva, but they may be suddha-sattva. Asuddha-sattva are those who are not liberated, suddha-sattva are liberated, and visuddha-sattva refers to Krsna and His all incarnations including Visnu. When visuddha-sattva will combine with the essence of hladini and samvit and comes in a jiva, that essential mood to serve Krsna will be sandrananda-visesatma; otherwise not. This is very high-class. It is a very elevated.

 

 

In simple English we are marginal that can choose to serve Krishna's super energy or be covered by his inferior energy

 

“The living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore two classes are designated: eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) and eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned. The time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned. Letter the Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu

In this way the living entities are called marginal potency because they are naturally surrounded by and serving the Superior energy (Krishna and His Vishnu expansions) in their original perpetual body in Vaikuntha, or can choose to use their free will and become covered by the temporary inferior energy in the forms of decaying ethereal and biological bodies (MATERIAL) within the mahat-tattva or material creation.

The jiva-tatastha or marginal living entity can also further enter the greatest phenomenon and mystery that has perplexed so many pandits, scholars, Sadhus, yogis, Swami’s Guru’s and Vaishavas for thousands of years, and that is a dormant dreamless state of individual consciousness that is part of a quiescent collective called the impersonal Brahmajyoti.

The Impersonal Brahman is neither the superior energy nor the inferior energy. Let me explain. Achintya-Bheda-Abheda is applicable here because <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, like the sun, is the source of the sunrays, therefore achintya-Bheda-Abheda is appropriate here because just as the analogy that the sun and the sun are inseparable, the superior energy <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> and the marginal living entity jiva-tatastha are always together and indivisible like the sun and the sunrays. The rays of the sun are compared to the living impersonal Brahmajyoti which is the ‘collective’ individual jiva tatasthas (marginal living entities) that are like particles of light that makes up the sunshine and consequently appear in a dormant state of inactive consciousness that exists in-between the SUPERIOR ENERGY (Krishna and His many Vishnu expansions) and the INFERIOR ENERGY (the material lifeless creation and bodily vessels, created by one of the Lords expansions, Maha-Vishnu) ‘This in between state is called the Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman.

It is in this way that this Impersonal Brahman or Brahmajyoti does not and can never represent the full potential or Krishna conscious perpetual bodily origins of tatastha s’akti (the marginal living entity) because ones genuine self is eternally established in the endless ‘presents’ of Goloka and Vaikuntha that is beyond the influence of mundane time and space. The jiva-tatasthas souls that have projected themselves into the Impersonal Brahmajyoti are for that reason in a dreaming static state of delusional individual consciousness unaware of their perpetual Krishna Conscious body in Goloka or Vaikuntha. Therefore it is only the lower non <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> conscious condition of the jiva tatastha that has merged into a individual collective called the Impersonal Brahmajyoti, like the mahat-tattva, is also a temporary state of existence and imagination for the jiva tatastha.

"Regarding your question, in one sense both you and Mahapurusa are right. The fact is that after the dissolution of the Universe the living entities remain in slumber within Maha Visnu, and again when the creation takes place they are impregnated in their original position and they come out in different species of life. By gradual evolutionary process, when they come to the human form there is good chance of getting out of the repeated birth and death, and one can enter into the Spiritual Realm. But if one loses this chance he is again put into the cycle of birth and death. The conditioned souls are always within the Maha Visnu Form, whereas the liberated souls in Vaikuntha, they are engaged in the service of the Lord. Constitutionally every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikuntha Loka, has chance of falling down. Letter the Srila Prabhupada sent to Upendra prabhu