Thesis To Support Rebellious Condition

[suchandra]

Below it is pointed out that the conditional state of the living entity is a rebellious condition. Doesn't "rebellious condition" mean that we rebelled against the Supreme Lord? This would solve the question why we living entities happened to be sent into the material world and refute the undestanding of many that living entities are spotless newcomers.

 

"Nothing can be done without surrender because our, this conditional life is rebellious life. We have rebelled against the supremacy of the Personality of Godhead.

 

 

That is conditioned life. There are so many theses to support this rebellious condition. Somebody is thinking that “I am one with God”; somebody is thinking, “God is dead”; somebody is thinking, “There is no God”; somebody is thinking, “Why you are searching God? There are so many Gods loitering in the street.” So in this way many theses are there. All of them are different symptoms of rebellious condition. The sum and substance… Just like atheists, they are boldly saying, “There is no God.” Now…, but the impersonalists saying, “There may be God, but He has no head, He has no face. That’s all.” So in this way our condition is rebellious condition. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā instructs that “You surrender.” Sarva- dharmān parityajya mām ekam śaranam vraja [bg. 18.66]. So without surrender, there is no question of making any spiritual progress. Just like a person who has rebelled against the government—the first condition is to surrender; otherwise there is no question of mercy from the government. Similarly anyone, the living entity, any one of us who has rebelled against the supremacy of the Lord, the beginning of spiritual life is surrender.So this mantra, initiation, namah. Namah means surrender. And who can surrender? Surrender, one who has understood the Lord, he can surrender, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāh janmanām ante jñānavān mām prapadyate [bg. 7.19]. After many, many births of cultivation of knowledge, when one is perfectly wise, at that time he surrenders. The perfection of acquiring knowledge, or wisdom, is to surrender. So, namah. Namah means “I surrender.” And what is your condition? Never mind what is that condition. Apavitrah pavitro vā. Apavitrah means contaminated, and pavitra means liberated. So we have two conditions. Either… Just like either we are healthy or we are diseased. There is no third condition. Crude example. Similarly, the living entities, they have two conditions. One condition is liberation, another condition is contaminated. Therefore living entity is called marginal, in between contamination and liberation. Either a living entity can be contaminated or liberated. There is no third condition."

 

Talk, Initiation Lecture,

and Ten Offenses Lecture

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

Los Angeles, December 1, 1968

[theist]

 

Similarly, the living entities, they have two conditions. One condition is liberation, another condition is contaminated. Therefore living entity is called marginal, in between contamination and liberation. Either a living entity can be contaminated or liberated. There is no third condition."

 

[sevabhakta]

ergo, when a person is conditioned, he is conditioned.

 

When he is liberated, the "second time", he is no longer marginal or able to be conditioned. Firmly fixed up means eternally liberated, aka Swarupa siddhi, aka transmuted from marginal energy to Hladini sakti of the Cit sakti, as Guruvani once surmised.

 

How sweet it is.

[theist]

 

ergo, when a person is conditioned, he is conditioned.

 

When he is liberated, the "second time", he is no longer marginal or able to be conditioned. Firmly fixed up means eternally liberated, aka Swarupa siddhi, aka transmuted from marginal energy to Hladini sakti of the Cit sakti, as Guruvani once surmised.

 

How sweet it is.

 

 

When he is liberated, the "second time",he is no longer marginal...

 

Can you back that up through Prabhupada as well as Guruvani?

[Guruvani]

[sevabhakta]

Sorry, I guess you missed all the quotes which led to my little compilation there, including YOUR quote.

 

I don't have time to go back through the archives, if you are really interested though have at it, I have some pressing matters to attend to as per the last thread I posted.

 

Hare Krsna

[theist]

OK I checked and you provided no such authoritative proof.

[sevabhakta]

 

OK I checked and you provided no such authoritative proof.

 

On the other thread I told you that you never previously expressed the position that you later adopted from the recent and apparently stated conclusions of others in that thread, you claimed (paraphrase) "on this and other forums on the internet I have established that position from the beginning and that was 9 years ago".

 

But for me, the archives means this board.

 

The only board I post on.

 

And you are one of the main people I have discussed with.

 

And you seem to be able to remember certain things I have said quite well in order to characterize my positions regularly over time, but in this case the old memory just short circuits?

 

I don't think so. You've been right there during the process where we have unveiled many subtle and esoteric nuances regarding tattvas of the Jiva, tatastha, brahmajyoti, etc.

 

Play dumb if you want, the proof is there, already provided.

 

Like you are always quoting authorites when you make points.

 

Better re-up on Brahmi Prabhu.

 

Hare Krsna