highest form of service

[cbrahma]

The phrase 'highest form of service' gets used a lot in ISKCON to refer to book distribution, of course. In fact devotees are classified according to these types of service even over chanting, and deity worship.

This seems a-siddhantic to me. If devotional service is absolute how can there be 'higher forms'?

[Murali_Mohan_das]

The question is: which service will please Gurudeva the most?

 

When Gurudeva is pleased, that means Sri Krishna is pleased.

 

Srila Prabhupada (and his Guru) placed an emphasis on book distribution. So, for the sincere followers of Srila Prabhupada, book distribution can safely be considered the highest form of service (without minimizing the importance of other service).

 

 

The phrase 'highest form of service' gets used a lot in ISKCON to refer to book distribution, of course. In fact devotees are classified according to these types of service even over chanting, and deity worship.

This seems a-siddhantic to me. If devotional service is absolute how can there be 'higher forms'?

[Shakti-Fan]

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

IS BOOK DISTRIBUTION PURE BHAKTI?

<st1:place><st1:city>Los Angeles</st1:city>, <st1:state>California</st1:state></st1:place>: Excerpts from May 11 and <st1:date year="2003" day="12" month="5">May 12, 2003</st1:date>

[srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja is in the process of printing a large quantity of Sri Brahma-samhita, Sri Bhajana Rahasya, The Origin of Ratha-yatra, and revised editions of Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu-bindhu, Gaudiya-giti-guccha (the Song book), Their Lasting Relationship, Guru-devatatma, and My Siksa-guru and Priya-bandhu, and Our Gurus: One in Siddhanta, One in Heart. He encouraged the devotees to distribute these books, and others, by sprinkling his <st1:city><st1:place>Los Angeles</st1:place></st1:city> classes with excerpts on that subject: The following are a few of those excerpts.]

May 11:

The books that Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja produced, and also the books that I am now producing, should be printed in very large numbers ? and now it is taking place. We are presently spending about one crore rupees ($200,000) to print books, and now there is a question of distributing them. I do not want the books to remain in cold storage. I want you all to help me in the distribution of books, and you may also keep some profit for your going here and there.

[This was the introduction to the class. During the class, Srila Narayana Maharaja called on various devotees to speak. During this time, Sripad Madhava Maharaja addressed the devotee audience:]

[sripad Madhava Maharaja:] One devotee just said that book distribution is not pure bhakti. But when a devotee goes for book distribution, he will take the book and say, "Oh, this book contains Vasanta-pancami (the pastimes of Krsna's rasa-lila during spring time)." Or, "This book contains the disappearance days of Srila Dasa Gosvami and Srila Cakravarti Thakura." They are explaining something about bhakti; they are doing kirtana. When Sriman Mahaprabhu, being Krsna and having taken the complexion of Srimati Radhika, went to <st1:place>South India</st1:place>, He brought Kurma Purana and Brahma-samhita and ordered His devotees to make copies of them. This is book distribution.

[srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja:] He wanted to obey me, so he spoke in summary; and he left some remnants for you and for me. If book distribution is done for one's own purposes, such as personal profit or reputation, then it is not pure bhakti. A devotee must think, "They should have this book and read it thoroughly, and they should enter into a deep understanding of bhakti. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu returned from South India with Sri Brahma-samhita and Sri Krsna-karnamrta, and He told the devotees that they should make a necklace of the teachings therein. Why? Because there is so much siddhanta in them. Without knowing all these subjects, you cannot enter the realm of bhakti.

Book distribution is for this end ? by the order of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, to please Guru and Krsna ? then it will be real bhakti, otherwise it will not. You should be careful about this. While distributing books, you should think, "I am doing this to please my Gurudeva and Krsna, all should know what is written in Jaiva Dharma." You may tell people, "Jaiva Dharma includes everything from top to bottom about how to develop your bhakti from the beginning. If you want to read only one book, then you will have to read Jaiva Dharma by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. From the conclusions of Bhagavad Gita starting with Saranagati, and continuing to maha-bhava, everything has been explained in this book. So you must read and follow Jaiva Dharma." Know that book distribution is essential. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu did this Himself, and we must follow His example. But always be careful. It should not be sanga-siddha or aropa-siddha bhakti.

May 12

Book Distribution is not aropa-siddha-bhakti

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself distributed books to others, so don?t think that book distribution is aropa-siddha-bhakti [see endnote 1]. Never think likethat; never. Srila Vyasadeva first compiled Srimad Bhagavatam, and then he instructed Sri Sukadeva Gosvami to preach it everywhere. If book distribution was aropa-siddha bhakti, why, then, did Krsna give an order in the Gita that this knowledge should be given to everyone?

ya idam paramam guhyam mad bhaktesv abhidhasyati

bhaktim mayi param krtva mam evaisyaty asamsayah

na ca tasman manusyesu kascin me priya krttamah

bhavita na ca me tasmad anyah priyataro bhuvi

["For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, pure devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me. There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he, nor will there ever beone more dear." (Bg 18.68-69)]

If there is no Bhagavad-gita in book form, how we can preach? Don?t think that distributing it is aropa-siddha bhakti. Havea strong belief in this. If the motive is other than to please Krsna ? if it is to earn money to maintain oneself ? then it is bogus, aropa-siddha-bhakti. However, if any book is distributed to please Gurudeva and Krsna, for the benefit ofall human beings and the entire universe, then it is not aropa-siddha-bhakti; it is svarupa-siddha-bhakti, pure bhakti.*[see endnote 2]

What to speak of book distribution,even a person who cleans the stool of another devotee is much better situated than someone who is chanting and remembering but is criticizing others. Many mayavadis [impersonalists] and sahajiyas [those who equate mundane sex life with Krsna's transcendental loving pastimes] chant the holy name, which generally comes in the category of svarupa-siddha-bhakti, but what is the fruit they aspire for by their chanting? They want to merge in Krsna, and this is offensive. So you should be clear in your mind. When the book is distributed for the benefit of humanity, to please Gurudeva, it is bhakti.* [see endnote 3]

If Gurudeva tells you to clean up the stool of any devotee, you should run immediately to do so. There was once a very sincere devotee of our Gurudeva who rendered him so much service; playing mrdanga and singing excellently, cooking, and washing the cloths of Gurudeva. That disciple, who was quite young, became sick, and Gurudeva became busy in serving and caring for him ? even though that boy was his disciple. At that time I personally told Gurudeva, "I want to help you, so that you may have time to preach. I will look after my godbrother." Every day I would wipe off the blood coming from his mouth, and clean up his urine and stools. As a result of this,my Guru Maharaja became very, very pleased with me, and that is why I have been blessed to come here to preach today. Pujyapada Trivikrama Maharaja, used to glorify me, saying, "You risked your life to serve this devotee."

[sripad Madhava Maharaja:] And he also said, "And by this you conquered Gurudeva?s heart."

So you should not have any doubt. You should chant, remember, perform nagara-sankirtana and book distribution, and go through the books; learn the essence of these books and try to follow sincerely. Then it will not be aropa-siddha-bhakti. Otherwise, it must be.

Thank you.

*Endnotes:

1. "Aropa-siddha-bhakti ? Endeavors indirectly attributed with the quality of bhakti.

Endeavors which by nature are not purely constituted of bhakti ?that is, anukulya-krsnanusilana ? and in which the performer, in order to fulfill his own purpose, offers his activities and their results to the Lord so that He maybe pleased, is called aropa-siddha-bhakti. In other words, because his activities are assigned (aropa) to the Supreme Lord, bhakti is attributed (aropita) to them." (Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu-bindu, 92)

2. "Svarupa-siddha-bhakti: Endeavors purely constitutued of Uttama-bhakti

All favorable endeavors or cesta such as sravana, kirtana, smarana, and so on, as well as the manifestation of the spiritual sentiments which occur beginning from the stage of bhava, which are completely devoid of all desires separate from Sri Krsna and which are freed from the coverings of jnana and karma are known as svarupa-siddha-bhakti. In other words all endeavors of the body, words and mind which are related to Sri Krsna and which are performed exclusively and directly for His pleasure without any interruption, these are known as svarupa-siddha-bhakti.

Therefore in Raya Ramananda samvada, the conversation between Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Raya Ramananda found in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, both aropa-siddha and sanga-siddha-bhakti have been described as external." (Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu-bindhu 18-19)

3. " [Within the 64 limbs of bhakti, this is #54] Vaisnava-sastra-seva (serving Vaisnava scriptures) ? Only those sastras which cause Bhagavad-bhakti to be obtained are vaisnava-sastras. One should faithfully and regularly study such scriptures, hear them from the mouths of pure devotees, and read and recite them with a worshipful attitude. One should know the object to be obtained by such scriptures, that is bhagavad-bhakti, and having full faith in that, one should mold one's life in accordance with its principles. The restoration of, careful keeping of, publication and propagation of vaisnava-sastras are all included within sastra-seva (service to Vaisnava scriptures)." (Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu-bindu.)

[cbrahma]

Being the case that most devotees don't distribute books, then most devotees, like pujaris, temple presidents, sanyassis are lower class.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Being the case that most devotees don't distribute books, then most devotees, like pujaris, temple presidents, sanyassis are lower class.

 

 

What to speak of book distribution,even a person who cleans the stool of another devotee is much better situated than someone who is chanting and remembering but is criticizing others.

[cbrahma]

If you make a statement that by implicit logic degrades other devotees the person understanding that logic is not the critic.

[suchandra]

 

Being the case that most devotees don't distribute books, then most devotees, like pujaris, temple presidents, sanyassis are lower class.

The situation in European countries like France, Italy, Spain, UK, Netherlands, Scandinavia, Switzerland, Germany, Portugal, Austria - in sum a 400 mio people region, bookdistribution was destroyed by ISKCON management almost to nill already in the 90s. Bookdistribution requires good management - books have to be printed at the right price and in acceptable quality, up-to-date Vaishnav magazins in the local languages published. There have to be Sankirtan devotees who need, after taking all this tapasya upon themselves to distribute every day transcendental literature, a totally trustworthy spiritual leadership. So far this was a big problem from the very beginning and is presently so much lacking and as long there is no trustworthy leadership how to manage an efficient bookdistrubtion program to cover 400 mio people?

Vaishnava leaders were always honoured and treated with all respect, but what to do if they can't keep themselves fixed up in spiritual sadhana and leave with all the laxmi?

I don't know about bookdistribution in US but all over Europe you even won't find Sankirtan vans anymore, except may be Hungary which runs the same dictatorship prone to corruption like it failed everywhere else in the past.

[cbrahma]

 

The situation in European countries like France, Italy, Spain, UK, Netherlands, Scandinavia, Switzerland, Germany, Portugal, Austria - in sum a 400 mio people region, bookdistribution was destroyed by ISKCON management almost to nill already in the 90s. Bookdistribution requires good management - books have to be printed at the right price and in acceptable quality, up-to-date Vaishnav magazins in the local languages published. There have to be Sankirtan devotees who need, after taking all this tapasya upon themselves to distribute every day transcendental literature, a totally trustworthy spiritual leadership. So far this was a big problem from the very beginning and is presently so much lacking and as long there is no trustworthy leadership how to manage an efficient bookdistrubtion program to cover 400 mio people?

Vaishnava leaders were always honoured and treated with all respect, but what to do if they can't keep themselves fixed up in spiritual sadhana and leave with all the laxmi?

I don't know about bookdistribution in US but all over Europe you even won't find Sankirtan vans anymore, except may be Hungary which runs the same dictatorship prone to corruption like it failed everywhere else in the past.

It also requires that the devotee gives up whatever maintenance he or she has and depend entirely on the proceeds of the book sales and what the temple will give him or her.

That works fine while the devotee is productive and young. Once they age and can no longer produce - what happens? There is no retirement program in ISKCON. I would rather save up for that inevitable and sobering day rather than trust corrupt leaders.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

I would rather save up for that inevitable and sobering day rather than trust corrupt leaders.

 

I pray your savings and loan institution doesn't go under!!

 

I'm working towards a "guaranteed" retirement, but I'm not counting on it being there when I retire. As a part of the largest retirement system in the nation, I realize my retirement funds are a tempting target for the unscrupulous.

 

Already, Enron managed to rip off many billions from "us".

[gHari]

To me 'highest form of service' means the selfless service of the gopis. That's what I thought this was about from the outside of the thread.

 

Book distribution is glorious, but please don't count the money, count the books.

[Guruvani]

What about the famous question one disciple asked Srila Prabhupada: "What pleases you most Srila Prabhupada".

 

Srila Prabhupada replied: "That you are learning to love Krishna".

 

Book distribution sort of got out of control.

It became a sorority-like club of guys who sometimes referred to non-book distributors as "small-timers".

 

This kind or sorority club turned me off even though I did my share of book distrubution.

 

Book distribution turned into a money-making scam and books were ending up in garbage cans at the airport and we were buying them back from the custodians at the airport.

 

Getting books into the hands of people "by hook or by crook" eventually showed to be more-or-less useless in actually bringing people to Krishna consciousness.

 

I did my share of scamming people into giving some donation and then pushing a book into their hands and quickly moving on.

 

I had more luck with personal, one-on-one talking with people and answering questions about Krishna and spiritual topics.

 

I don't know if anybody that I pushed a book on became a devotee.

Maybe so.

But, if so, I never got to see it.

[cbrahma]

 

I pray your savings and loan institution doesn't go under!!

 

I'm working towards a "guaranteed" retirement, but I'm not counting on it being there when I retire. As a part of the largest retirement system in the nation, I realize my retirement funds are a tempting target for the unscrupulous.

 

Already, Enron managed to rip off many billions from "us".

Temple management run tandem with Enron in the matter of corporate ethics.

[Kulapavana]

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Srila Narayana Maharja

<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P></O:P>What to speak of book distribution,even a person who cleans the stool of another devotee is much better situated than someone who is chanting and remembering but is criticizing others.

<O:P></O:P>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>I really like that quote

[cbrahma]

 

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Srila Narayana Maharja

<O:P></O:P>What to speak of book distribution,even a person who cleans the stool of another devotee is much better situated than someone who is chanting and remembering but is criticizing others.

<O:P></O:P>

 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>I really like that quote

Regardless of the relevance.

[Beggar]

 

.

 

Book distribution sort of got out of control.

It became a sorority-like club of guys who sometimes referred to non-book distributors as "small-timers".

 

Say what? "a sorority-like club of guys". Is that the Westen equivalent of men with stuble on their face wearing saris, and thinking that they are some kind of gopi? Or is it a just plain mundane group of college age cross dressers?

[Guruvani]

 

Say what? "a sorority-like club of guys". Is that the Westen equivalent of men with stuble on their face wearing saris, and thinking that they are some kind of gopi? Or is it a just plain mundane group of college age cross dressers?

You were probably around in the middle of it.

Remember the mantra "Krishna Krishna Maha-baho, please send me another slow"?

 

"slow" is what the sorority boys of book distribution used to call innocent (clueless) people walking through the airport.

 

By the way, can you change me a $100 bill for some $20s?

 

Can you take $60 back and donate $40 to help the kids?

[theist]

Guruvani, Beggar is teasing you a bit

soroity is for girls, fraternity is for boys hence his cross dressing refernece.

 

How about "pick the bone and bring it home?" That still gives me the chills.

[Guruvani]

 

Guruvani, Beggar is teasing you a bit

soroity is for girls, fraternity is for boys hence his cross dressing refernece.

 

How about "pick the bone and bring it home?" That still gives me the chills.

 

Originally, I started to use the term fraternity but sorority just had a better ring to it.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

"Sorority" has a better sonority, eh?

 

http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Sonority.htm

 

 

Originally, I started to use the term fraternity but sorority just had a better ring to it.

[Guruvani]

 

"Sorority" has a better sonority, eh?

 

 

What else could you call a clique of wannabe gopis other than a sorority?

Despite some opinions to the contrary, most all the brahmacaries I knew in ISKCON (and I knew a bunch) were very much in pursuance of madhurya-rasa long before Narayana Maharaja created a frenzy with his manjari-bhava promotions.

 

Since day one when I joined ISKCON it was all about gopi-bhava, even though it was somewhat subdued and low-key.:crying2::crying2::crying2:

[Sunds]

'Highest form of service' is service to the helpless (people who cannot serve themselves).