Advancement Of Civilization

[suchandra]

Although in the seventies computer technology wasn't yet a real jobkiller and in the fledgling stages, Prabhupada (read below) knew already how mechanisation would develop. Since our political leaders are surely not that stupid but let it all happen in the name of, "efficiency in keeping population explosion under control", they actually do nothing but replacing spiritual advancement of human society with enforcing awkward position upon the citizens in order to make life not worth living anymore. But isn't this not rather a solution like animals adopt when other animals dispute their sovereignty?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Prabhupada: "Now this machine, this machine nonsense means unemployment. One machine will work for hundred men. So hundred men becomes unemployed, and one technician, he gets all the salaries. To work on the computer, com…

 

Devotee: Computer, yes.

 

Prabhupada: Machine. And he’s very expert. He’ll take three thousand dollars. And others will be unemployed. This is going on. And they are thinking: “Advancement of civilization.” Advancement of civilization means “Exploit others and you become happy.” This is advancement of civilization. “Others may die for such, out of starvation, and one man takes all the money and spends it for wine and women and motor car.” That’s all. This is advancement of civilization. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. This is Vedic civilization. “Let everyone be happy.” That is Vedic civilization. And the demonic civilization, they’re: “Let everyone suffer; I become happy. That’s all.” And Vaisnava is thinking, “For my salvation it is already guaranteed.” But he is thinking, “How these poor people will be saved?” Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa maya-sukhaya bharam udvahato vimudhan [sB 7.9.43]. Prahlāda Mahārāja. This is Vaisnava’s position. Para-duhkha-duhkhī. He’s unhappy by seeing others unhappy. For himself, he has no unhappiness. Para-duhkha-duhkhī. Krpambudhir yas tam aham prapadye. This is Vaisnava philosophy. Vaisnava shall work hard, undergo all tribulation, for others. He has no problem. A Vaisnava has no problem. Because he has taken shelter of Krsna, he has no problem. Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati. Krsna also gives guarantee, “Anyone who has taken shelter of My…, he is saved. I will give him protection.”

 

Morning Walk Conversation

with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

March 15, 1974, Vṛndāvana

[theist]

 

Prabhupada: "Now this machine, this machine nonsense means unemployment. One machine will work for hundred men. So hundred men becomes unemployed, and one technician, he gets all the salaries. To work on the computer, com…

 

Devotee: Computer, yes.

 

Prabhupada: Machine. And he’s very expert. He’ll take three thousand dollars. And others will be unemployed. This is going on. And they are thinking: “Advancement of civilization.” Advancement of civilization means “Exploit others and you become happy.” This is advancement of civilization. “Others may die for such, out of starvation, and one man takes all the money and spends it for wine and women and motor car.” That’s all. This is advancement of civilization. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. This is Vedic civilization. “Let everyone be happy.” That is Vedic civilization. And the demonic civilization, they’re: “Let everyone suffer; I become happy. That’s all.” And Vaisnava is thinking, “For my salvation it is already guaranteed.” But he is thinking, “How these poor people will be saved?” Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa maya-sukhaya bharam udvahato vimudhan [sB 7.9.43]. Prahlāda Mahārāja. This is Vaisnava’s position. Para-duhkha-duhkhī. He’s unhappy by seeing others unhappy. For himself, he has no unhappiness. Para-duhkha-duhkhī. Krpambudhir yas tam aham prapadye. This is Vaisnava philosophy. Vaisnava shall work hard, undergo all tribulation, for others. He has no problem. A Vaisnava has no problem. Because he has taken shelter of Krsna, he has no problem. Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati. Krsna also gives guarantee, “Anyone who has taken shelter of My…, he is saved. I will give him protection.”

 

Morning Walk Conversation

with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

March 15, 1974, Vṛndāvana

 

 

We have been discussing friendship on another thread. Here is Friendship, The Vaisnava as described above. Prabhupada was/is certainly the prime example of what a friend is. How tirelessly he labored for us suffering souls.

[Kulapavana]

 

Although in the seventies computer technology wasn't yet a real jobkiller and in the fledgling stages, Prabhupada (read below) knew already how mechanisation would develop.

 

I think it is more about the inequities between people and improper distribution of wealth and resources, then mere mechanisation of work.

 

The problem is with people who exploit others, amassing huge amounts of money and resources, while the rest of the population lives in poverty and dire need. Nowadays relatively small groups of people siphon off vast amounts of money from the rest of the population through tools like the monetary system, or the so called "free trade", which they alone control.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Don't even get me started on this topic...

 

 

I waste too much time worrying about and decrying the exploitation of the meek by the demonic persons.

 

 

I think it is more about the inequities between people and improper distribution of wealth and resources, then mere mechanisation of work.

 

The problem is with people who exploit others, amassing huge amounts of money and resources, while the rest of the population lives in poverty and dire need. Nowadays relatively small groups of people siphon off vast amounts of money from the rest of the population through tools like the monetary system, or the so called "free trade", which they alone control.

[Kulapavana]

 

Don't even get me started on this topic...

 

 

 

if we merely copy the Luddite approach ("it's the fault of the machines") we definitely risk being labelled as "simplistic" and becoming irrelevant in society.

 

And btw. what are the neo-Luddites doing on the internet?

[theist]

I hope it is not being implied that Srila Prabhupada didn't know that there are greedy capitalists behind the machines. I am sure he knows full well that there are persons behind all mechanical arrangements including the body and the universe as well as the factories of mass production.

 

This is a good time to bring up a wonderful book that the newer generation may not have heard of. Small Is Beautiful by EF Schumacher- subtitled Economics as if People Mattered.

 

As humans we need to work and be occupied just for ordinary worldly health and sanity. The problem arises when work is meaningless and dull or dehumanizing like in these horrible factiories. Plus over working. The people become depressed and morose and seek escapes like drugs and Hyno-vision (TV) which is just a symptom of seeking annihilation like voidism and impersonalism if we trace it back a little deeper.

 

Without work that is compatible to human nature and further tailored to each humans worldly sva-dharma as dictated by how the three modes are mixed no one will feel happy in their work.

 

And further without an understanding of karma-yoga and the basic principles of human life as enuciated in Sri Isopanishad the sick desire of over accumulation of material objects can infect the mind which we see today. Yes sick, as I view those who need to have more and more wealth even as their brothers and sisters are dying around them for want of the basics to be living in a highly pathological state.

 

The excessively rich call out of us a special kind of pity and compassion if we can get beyond our own envy of them. They are really trapped. "It is very difficult for the rich man to inherit the Kingdom of God."

 

Prabhupada's formula - "Simple living and high thinking."

[Murali_Mohan_das]

As somebody who works with machines (computers in my case) every day, I have this idealistic notion that the machines can automate all the soul-sucking drudgery that theist describes and allow folks more time for creative endeavors and, dare I say it, spiritual pursuits.