The concept of BACK to Godhead

[Kulapavana]

The concept of "BACK to Godhead" - what is it origin? Is there a shastric basis to this concept? What are the possible ways of understanding this concept in the light of guru, sadhu, and shastra? Is it just a preaching tool, based on the well known "Paradise Lost" idea? Or is it part of Gaudiya Vaishnava siddhanta going back to the time of Six Goswamis?

 

It would seem that Srila Prabhupada started using this concept very early in his preaching in India, while he was still a householder. It definitely was very dear to him, as he used it to name his magazine "Back to Godhead" - first issue came out in February of 1944.

[Guruvani]

Good topic.

First thing I think we need to establish is what is "Godhead".

Does it means the Personality of Godhead or the spiritual world?

Is Godhead a place or a person?

Before we can truly understand Srila Prabhupada's slogan I think we need to establish what the term "Godhead" actually indicates.

 

Is it back to the person or back to a place?

 

I can't think of a reference where Srila Prabhupada has referred to the spiritual world as Godhead.

He most always uses the term in reference to the Personality of Godhead - the person.

 

Could it just as easily be "Back home, back to God"?

[Kulapavana]

 

Could it just as easily be "Back home, back to God"?

 

I have heard that when BTG was about to be published for the first time in US his disciples suggested "Back to God" as a possible - better sounding - title but SP insisted that it must be "Back To Godhead". The rest is history.

[Guruvani]

What was that slogan under the "Back to Godhead" logo?

"Godhead is light, nescience is darkness, where there is light there is no darkness"?

 

So, Godhead is light?

[Kulapavana]

 

What was that slogan under the "Back to Godhead" logo?

"Godhead is light, nescience is darkness, where there is light there is no darkness"?

 

So, Godhead is light?

 

Interesting observation. I never even thought about it. But I think that phrase "Godhead is light, nescience is darkness, where there is light there is no darkness" comes from the shastra. Yet it can also be said that this is a close paraphrase of the Biblical passage:

 

"God is light and in him is no darkness at all" (1 John 1:5)

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

The slogan is a paraphrase of a verse from Caitanya Caritamrita:

 

krishna surya sama, maya hoy andhakar

yaha krishna taha mayar nahi adhikar

 

"Krishna is the sun, Maya is darkness. Where there is Krishna, there can be no Maya."

 

Also the name "Back to Godhead" was being used at least since 1947, so the western disciples were not an influence on it.

[Kulapavana]

 

The slogan is a paraphrase of a verse from Caitanya Caritamrita:

 

krishna surya sama, maya hoy andhakar

yaha krishna taha mayar nahi adhikar

 

"Krishna is the sun, Maya is darkness. Where there is Krishna, there can be no Maya."

 

 

Thank you for that quote (Cc. Madhya 22.31). That was exactly what I was thinking about.

[gHari]

Excerpts from early Bhagavatam purports:<blockquote>

The Lord is reciprocally respondent to His devotees. When He sees it that a devotee is completely sincere in getting admittance in the transcendental service of the Lord and thus becomes eager to hear about Him, the Lord acts from within the devotee in such a way so that the devotee may easily go back to Him. The Lord is more anxious to take us back into His Kingdom than we can desire. Most of us do not desire at all to go <B>back to Godhead</b>. Only a very few men want to back to go <B>Godhead</b>. But any one who desires so to go <B>back to Godhead</b>, Sri Krishna helps such sincere devotee in all respects.

No body can enter into the kingdom of God unless one is perfectly cleared of all sins. The material sins are products of our desires to lord it over the material nature. It is very difficult to get rid of such desires. Women and wealth these two items are very difficult problems for the devotee making progress on the path of going <B>back to Godhead</b>. Many stalwarts in the devotional line fell a victim of these allurement and thus retreated from the path of liberation. But when one is helped by the Lord Himself the whole thing becomes as easy as anything by the Divine Grace of the Lord.

 

They have nothing to compete with the materialist because they are on the path of <B>back to Godhead</b> where there is everything eternal full and blissful.

 

This life is meant for ending the miseries of material existence of hard struggle for life and going <B>back to Godhead</b> which is our eternal Home.

 

Such devotees of the Lord are equally honoured like the Lord because they do the most confidential service of the Lord in delivering the fallen souls of the material world, whom the Lord wants to go back to home <B>back to Godhead</b>.

 

In the Bhagwat Geeta the Personality of <B>Godhead</b> has declared it that any one who may know the principles of transcendental birth and activities of the Lord in fact, will go <B>back to Godhead</b> after being relieved from this material tabernacle.

 

Therefore the Kings interest is to guide all subjects back to the kingdom of God and hence the activities of the citizens shall be so coordinated that they can at the end go back to home, <B>back to Godhead</b>.

 

According to Manu the great author of civic codes and religious principles, even the killer of an animal is to be considered as a murderer because animal food is never meant for the civilized man whose prime duty is to prepare himself for going <B>back to Godhead</b>.

 

n the Bhagwat Geeta the Lord says that all His acts even His appearance and disappearance in and out of the material world are all transcendental and one who may know this in perfect order shall not take his birth again in this material world but he would go <B>back to Godhead</b>.

 

If, therefore, one is absorbed in the thoughts of the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna, he is sure to go <B>back to Godhead</b> without any doubt. This is confirmed in the Bhagwat Geeta (Bg. 8.5–I5) it is said there as follows:—

"One who quits his material body by remembering Me, he attains transcendental nature after his death. In other words such good soul becomes as much liberated as the Lord is freed from all material conditions."

 

SB 1.15.32:<BLOCKQUOTE><CENTER><FONT COLOR=RED>Nisamya bhagawat margam samstham yadukulasya cha

Swah pathaya matim chakre nibhritatma yudhisthirah.

</CENTER>

ENGLISH SYNONYMS

Nisamya—deliberating, Bhagawat—in the matter of the Lord, Margam—the ways of his appearance and disappearance, Samstham—end, Yadukulasya—of the dynasty of King Yadu, Cha—also, Swah—the abode of the Lord, Pathaya—on the way of, Chakre—gave attention, Nibhritatma—lonely and alone, Yudhisthirah—the king of the name.

<B></FONT>

TRANSLATION

Just hearing about Lord Krishna's returning back to His abode and on understanding of the end of Yadu dynasty's earthly manifestation, Maharaj Yudhisthir decided alone for going back to Home <B>back to Godhead</b>.</b></blockquote>

 

Maharaj Yudhisthir trained up his grandson Maharaj Parikshit equally qualified like him in the matter of state administration in terms of the king's obligation upon the citizens and thus Parikshit was enthroned on the seat of Maharaj Yudhisthir prior to his departure for Supreme place <B>back to Godhead</b>.

 

SB 1.15.51:<BLOCKQUOTE><CENTER><FONT COLOR=RED>Yah sraddhaya etad bhagwatprianam

Pandoh sutanam iti sampra yanam.

Srinoti alam swastayanam pavitram

Labdha harou bhaktim upaiti siddhim

</CENTER>

ENGLISH SYNONYMS

Yah—anyone, Sraddhaya—with devotion, Etad—this, Bhagwatprianam—of those who are very dear to the Personality of <B>Godhead</b>, Pandoh—of the Pandu, Sutanam—of the sons, Iti—thus, Samprayanam—departure for the ultimate goal, Srinoti—hears, Alam—only, Swastayanam—auspiciousness, Pavitram—perfectly pure, Labdha—by obtaining, Harou—unto the Supreme Lord, Bhaktim—devotional service, Upaiti—gains over, Siddhim—perfection.<B></FONT>

 

TRANSLATION

The statement of the departure of the sons of Pandu for the ultimate goal of life back to home <B>back to Godhead</b> is full of auspiciousness and perfectly pure. Any one who therefore, hears this narration with devotional faith do certainly over gains devotional service of the Lord, the highest perfection of life.

</B>

PURPORT

Srimad Bhagwatam means narration about the Personality of <B>Godhead</b> and that of the devotees of the Lord like the Pandavas and others. Such narration of the Personality of Gohead and devotees are Absolute in themselves and as such to hear about them with devotional attitude means to associate with the Lord and constant companionship of the Lord by the hearing process of Srimad Bhagwatam helps one to attain the highest perfection of life namely to go back to home <B>back to Godhead</b> without failure.

 

Thus end the Bhaktivedanta Purports of the Fifteenth Chapter First Canto in the matter of The Pandavas Retire Timely.</b></blockquote>

 

One can achieve the ultimate success of going back to home <B>back to Godhead</b> if he is favoured by the Lord by sending His true representative. As soon as a true representative of the Lord is met with by a devotee of the Lord, he is assured a guarantee for going <B>back to Godhead</b> just after leaving the present body. This, however, depends on the sincerity of the devotee himself. The Lord is seated at the heart of all living beings; and as such he knows very well the movements of all individual persons. As soon as the Lord finds it that a particular soul is very eager to go back to home back <B>Godhead</b>, the Lord at once sends his bonafide representative to such sincere devotee. The sincere devotee is thus assured by the Lord for going back to Godheed. The conclusion is that to get the assistance and help of the bonafide spiritual master, means to receive the direct help of the Lord Himself.

 

From the early Gita purport to verse 9.28:

It is clearly mentioned here: mäm upaiñyasi, “he comes to Me,” back home, <B>back to Godhead</b>. There are five different stages of liberation, and here it is specified that the devotee who has always lived his lifetime here under the direction of the Supreme Lord, as stated, has evolved to the point where he can, after quitting this body, go <B>back to Godhead</b> and engage directly in the association of the Supreme Lord.

 

From early BTG:

The man having forgotten himself as the son of <B>Godhead</b>, has forsaken his real constitutional nature. He has misidentified himself with everything non-godly and therefore manipulates a material existence conducted by the mind and the six instrumental senses. He is concerned only with his material coverings of gross body and the subtle mind but cannot see either himself or his so-called numerous fellowmen. This is what we mean by Nescience which is darkness. The man having designated himself with the relation of his vehicular body and the finer elements of mind and ego etc., like the motor-car driver who has identified himself wrongly with the motor-car itself, has manufactured a civilization which is self contradictory and self denial.

 

His so-called rationality having not gone far above the rationality of the lower animals, he laments at the death of his fellowmen or at the loss of his own things which he has never witnessed by real experience. This is what we mean by Nescience which is darkness. He slightly feels only and that after the death of his fellowmen that the body loses something that moves it just like the driver moves the motor-car, but still due to the darkness of Nescience he never concerns himself with the driver of the body but takes care superficially only for the body or the mechanical car.

 

In the darkness of Nescience he is fully amazed with mechanism of the gross body just like a boy who is amazed with mechanism of the motor-car, but he hardly tries to understand that without a driver any amount of astounding mechanical arrangement of the motor-car or that of the human body, it cannot move either of them even by an inch. This is what we mean by Nescience which is darkness.

 

The defect of the present day civilization is just like the above. This is actually the civilization of Nescience or illusion and has, therefore, civilization been turned into militarization. Every one is fully concerned with the comforts of the body and everything related with the body and no body is concerned with the Spirit that moves the body although even a boy can realise that the motor-car mechanism has little value if there is no driver of the car. This dangerous ignorance of humanity is a gross Nescience and has created a dangerous civilization in the form of militarization. This militarization which, in softer language, is nationalization, is an external barrier to come to an understanding of human relation. There is no meaning in a fight where the parties do fight only for the matter of different coloured dresses. There must be therefore an understanding of human relation without any consideration of the bodily designation or coloured dresses.

 

"<B>Back to Godhead</b>" is a feeble attempt by the undersigned under the direction of His Divine Grace Sri Srimad Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami Prabhupada, the celebrated founder and organiser of the Gaudiya Math activities—just to bring up a real relation of humanity with central relation of the Supreme Personality of <B>Godhead</b>.

 

That there is a great and urgent need of a literature like this is keenly felt by the leaders of all countries and the following statements will help much in the procedure.

 

Some time back a bold statement by the Metropolitan of India in the form of Moral and Spiritual Re-armament movement, was published in the Hindusthan Standard, in which the reverend Bishop declared that "INDIA GUIDED BY GOD CAN LEAD THE WORLD BACK TO SANITY."

 

The President of the United States of America in a message to the Senate stated that "the underlying strength of the world consists in the moral fibre of citizens. A programme therefore of moral re-armament for the world cannot fail, to lessen the dangers of armed conflict. Such moral re-armament, to be most highly effective, must receive support on a world wide basis."

 

The Ex-president of the United States of America Mr. Herbert Hoover sent a message in a citizen's meeting in New York which included the following words. "What the world needs today is to return to sanity and moral spiritual ideals. At the present moment, nothing so concerns mankind."

 

Some 236 members of the British House of Commons jointly affirmed that spiritual principles which are common heritage of all people, are more fundamental than any political or economic issue. They also strongly affirmed that there is urgent need to acknowledge the sovereign authority of God in home and nation to establish that liberty which rests on the Christian responsibility to all one's fellowmen and to build a national life based on usefulness, unity and faith.

 

Sir Stafford Cripps the Lord Privy Seal of Britain in a meeting of Christians sometimes in the month of September 1942, said that the Kingdom of God would be accomplished through the Divine Power of love and he declared that "the tasks before us are, first so to conduct ourselves as individual Christian that in spite of the difficulties of our surroundings, we may work towards the establishment of the Kingdom of God throughout our country and the world and second, so to influence and change our social-economic and political environments as to encourage both ourselves and others to take to the Christian way of life."

 

The horrors of the war are pinching every one and all in the world and a statement of Mr. Windel Wilkie after his return from Russia, will tell the story of all other countries in the world. He stated that "Five million Russians have been killed, wounded or missing. At least sixty million Russians are slaves in the Russian territories controlled by Hitler. Food in Russia this winter will be scarce, perhaps worse than scarce. Fuel will be little known this winter in millions of Russian homes. Clothing except for the army and for essential war workers has nearly gone. Many vital medical supplies just do not exist."

 

What is true for the Russian people is also true for other people, as we Indians are feeling the same scarcity, the same want and the same disgust.

 

The disgust of the war is well summarized by the Foreign Secretary of Britain Mr. Anthony Eden who said that "this time we have to finish the job properly. We will not tolerate this business every twenty years. When the job is finished we must see that they cannot start it again. That is the will of the nation and the united nation."

 

<B>The Archbishop of Canterbury in his recent broadcast in London said, "In every quarter of earth men long to be delivered from the curse of War and to find in a world which has regained its peace, respite from the harshness and bitterness of the world they have known till now. But so often they want the Kingdom of Heaven without its King. The kingdom of God without God. And they cannot have it."

 

"OUR RESOLVE MUST BE BACK TO GOD. We make plans for the future for peace amongst the nation and for civil security at home. That is quite right enough and it would be wrong to neglect it. But all our plans will come to ship-wreck on the rock of human selfishness unless we turn to God. BACK TO GOD, that is the chief need of England and of every nation."</b>

 

And lately Sir Francis Younghusband while speaking at World Congress of Faiths said that, "that now religion is everywhere attacked brutally, we, look to India the very home of religion for a sign." Sir Francis pleaded that India, by her example might show the world how religion can be the most potent of all uniting forces in the conduct of human affairs."

 

Sir Sarvapalli Radhakrishnan the great Hindu philosopher addressing a crowded public meeting in Calcutta recently, observed:

 

"At a time like this when there is poverty, malnutrition of body and mind, when many people do not know what it is to have a cooked meal, or to lie on soft bed, when millions of homes turn into homes of hunger and prisoners of poverty, religious men will have to address themselves to the task of removing them."

 

"Today the world was noisier, more controversial and violent. There was more hope and more uncertainty, more aspirations and more frustration. And the years that intervened (from the last war) showed the bankruptcy of any spiritual value. The Versailles Treaty, the League of Nations, and the Disarmament Conference failed because they had not the back ground of public opinion to sustain them. This war, when it would be won, would prove to be the breeding ground of other wars if the peace was not saved. It could happen only if powerful nations ceased to take pride and glory in their possessions which were based on labour and tribute of other weaker nations. This perhaps was what Sir Harcourt Butler meant when he said that the principles of Hinduism contained the essential elements for the saving of world civilizations."

 

In another meeting the same philosopher pointed out, "We have to defeat tyranny in the realm of thought and create a will for world peace. Instruments for training the mind and educating human nature should be used to develop a proper social outlook without which institutional machinery was of little use."

 

These psychological movements of the leaders of all countries—combined with the orders of my Divine Master Sri Srimad Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami Prabhupada has led me to venture to start a paper under the above name and style "<B>Back to Godhead</b>" which implies all the words that we may intend to say in this connection.

 

India has been politically subjugated so to say for the last one thousand years but very few have been able to exploit her spiritual resources up till now which are measured unlimited by the spiritual masters. Politically India may ask all so-called foreigners to quit the shores of India but spiritually she did never ask any body to do so nor she will do so even now. She will rather invite all the so-called foreigners to come and exploit the spiritual resources of India's advancement and this transcendental exploitation will not only enhance the glory of India but will also enrich the glory of the whole world for unity, faith and humanity.

 

It may not be out of place to mention herein that His Divine Grace Sri Srimad Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswaty Goswami Prabhupada, just before his departure from this mortal world, wrote me a letter from Puri dated the 3rd December, 1936 directing me towards my duty in fulfilling His mission in the world for propagating the religion of Divine Love as propounded by Lord Chaitanya. In course of writing that letter, He wrote the following lines amongst other things.

 

"I am fully confident that you can explain in English our thoughts and arguments to the people who are not conversant with the languages of other members."

 

"This will do much good to yourself as well as your audience."

 

"I have every hope that you can turn yourself a very good English preacher if you serve the mission to inculcate the novel impression to the people in general and philosophers of modern age and religiosity."

 

And when I was consulting my well wishers and friends who are able to help me in this great adventure, all of them encouraged me in this connection. His Grace Sripad Bhakti Saranga Goswami Moharaj the Preacher-in-charge for the Western countries appointed by His Divine Grace who has recently returned from London preaching work to his headquarter, very kindly sent his blessing from Sri Nityananda Gaudiya Math in his letter dated the 15-3-43 in the following words amongst other things:—

 

"I know that His Divine Grace used to admire your intelligence and it was His earnest desire that the world outside be benefitted through your writings in English."

 

Under the circumstances since 1936 up to now, I was simply speculating whether I shall venture this difficult task and that without any means and capacity; but as none has discouraged me including late Prof. Nishikanto Sanyal and Spd. Vasudev Prabhu (now Puri Moharaj), I have now taken courage to take up the work. Late Prof. Sanyal used to encourage me always by publishing my articles in his "Harmonist" and sometime back he wanted to give me the charge of the paper which I could not accept due to personal considerations.

 

But at the present moment my conscience is dictating me to take up the work although the difficulties are not over for the present situation arising out of War conditions.

 

I wish that every one who is enlightened and educated of all nationality, may take active interest in this periodical publication for wide circulation as this paper will contain only the transcendental messages of the great savants of India and specially of Lord Chaitanya, the <B>Godhead</b> Incarnate Who descended for the deliverance of all fallen souls in the present age. My duty will be simply to repeat in the "<B>Back to Godhead</b>" just like an interpreter what I have heard from and what I have been ordered to deliver by my great spiritual master H.D.G. Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami Prabhupada. Nothing will be manufactured by me by my mental concoction. Such words will descend as Sound Transcendental and when they are given proper serving reception by the aural channel, surely they will act like medicine to carry all back to home and "<B>Back to Godhead</b>."

 

It is proposed that at least part by part issues of this literature shall be published every year and the subscription is fixed up at Rs. 6/- per annum in India or fifteen shillings per annum abroad. The writers of this paper will be mostly those who have dedicated their lives, resources, intelligence and speeches for the service of the Absolute Personality of <B>Godhead</b> and for the welfare of all entities. The readers will therefore derive the highest amount of benefit by their association if they will simply sacrifice a little time for the service of <B>Godhead</b> as will be directed in this paper from time to time. Surely they will go <B>back to Godhead</b> and the present rotten world will be transformed into the Kingdom of God as they will learn to acknowledge the sovereign authority of God in home and outside.

 

The subject matters delineated in the pages of "<B>Back to Godhead</b>" may seem to be very dry in the beginning as the messages are from a different sphere altogether but still we have to give attention to the messages if we really mean to cure the disease of Nescience and go "<B>Back to Godhead</b>." Sugar-candy is never sweet to those who are suffering from the disease of the bile. But still sugar-candy is the medicine for bilious patients. The taste of sugar-candy will gradually be revived if the bilious patient goes on taking sugar-candy regularly for the cure of the disease. We recommend the same process to the readers of "<B>Back to Godhead</b>."

 

<B>Godhead</b> is One without a second and all living entities are His eternal subordinate transcendental servitors. Realisation of this transcendental relation, will be the attempt of this paper and therefore there is no bar for any one in the world irrespective of colour, creed and nationality, to go <B>back to Godhead</b>.

 

Abhay Charan De,

Editor and Founder.

 

</blockquote>

Sril Sridhara Maharaja also used terms similar referencing Vraja, the Kingdom, Vaikuntha.

[gHari]

It might appear that initially Srila Prabhupada adopted the slogan meaning back to a God-centered life, then realized that it did lead to the Kingdom of God and therefore the expression filled out to encompass all that is good for the living entity, the path and the destination.

 

Yet, still somewhere in the back of my mind I remember seeing the words emanate first from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami.

[gHari]

EARLY PRABHUPADA:

Without entering into the details of these, we may take it for granted that fear of being destroyed and killed is an outcome of our association with material nature while in reality we are one with the transcendence. As such we have nothing to fear nor to be destroyed. The body is destructible but the spirit is not. The living entity in the darkness of the Absolute Truth, wrongly identifies with the material nature or "Maya" and concludes himself to be destructible. This causes his fear of being destroyed while actually he is not to be so. Forgetfulness of the Almighty Father is the cause of such misidentification. Intelligent persons therefore should approach to the bonafide spiritual master and accepting him to be nondifferent with the Lord, will devote himself cent per cent in the transcendental service of the Lord. This is what we mean by going "Back To Godhead."

[Kulapavana]

 

It might appear that initially Srila Prabhupada adopted the slogan meaning back to a God-centered life, then realized that it did lead to the Kingdom of God and therefore the expression filled out to encompass all that is good for the living entity, the path and the destination.

 

I tend to see it in the same way. Thanks for the early BTG quote. It was very relevant.

 

But does the concept of going BACK to Krsna ever appear in the Gita itself (shastric verses)? In 9.28 Krsna says:

 

"In this way you will be freed from bondage to work and its auspicious and inauspicious results. With your mind fixed on Me in this principle of renunciation, you will be liberated and come to Me." upaishyasi -- you will attain.

[Guruvani]

If I went back home back to Indiana now, I would be going back as the same person but a person changed in many ways.

so, the idea of going back home back to anywhere does not necessitate going back exactly the same as we were when we left that place.

If, for example, we came from the brahmajyoti which is the light of the spiritual world, then we can go back to the spiritual world not necessarily as a spark of light but as a surrendered servant of Krishna in a spiritual body just suitable for our particular service to Krishna.

 

So, I don't see that going "back home" has to mean going back exactly the same as we were before.

We can go back home a changed man who has grown, matured and developed beyond the person we were when we left.

[Kulapavana]

 

If, for example, we came from the brahmajyoti which is the light of the spiritual world, then we can go back to the spiritual world not necessarily as a spark of light but as a surrendered servant of Krishna in a spiritual body just suitable for our particular service to Krishna.

 

I always thought that the fall from brahmajyoti allows us to actually develop some "spiritual character". That refers to our particular taste in a relationship with God. Prior to that we were very much "undifferentiated" as a person - just a minute spark of consciousness.

 

Going BACK to me simply means returning to the sphere of life outside this material world. Upon such return I would likely be a somewhat changed person, especially in the matter of taste and attitude towards God and towards my own existence. From intense egotism to intense service inclination. I do see this material world as NOT my home, yet at the same time I have not developed to a point where the spiritual world feels like home. Thus our marginal position becomes perceptible.

[cbrahma]

Right. So Prabhupada's transcendental slogan - means -going back to the brahmajyoti. Obviously that was his mission.

[sevabhakta]

Well Spoken Gurvani and Kula, nice realizations.

 

and Cbrahma, Srila Prabhupada once, after a long period of silence during a room conversation, spoke this simple order to the disciples present. "Become broad-minded".

 

Hare Krsna

[cbrahma]

 

Well Spoken Gurvani and Kula, nice realizations.

 

and Cbrahma, Srila Prabhupada once, after a long period of silence during a room conversation, spoke this simple order to the disciples present. "Become broad-minded".

 

Hare Krsna

Relevance?

[Kulapavana]

 

Relevance?

 

I think becoming broad-minded has a lot of relevance here. The entire discussion requires ability to look at our tradition very, very broadly. Even the concept of Srila Prabhupada developing preaching ideas that dont necessarily follow Gaudiya siddhanta requires a very broad-minded approach.

 

I was always surprised at the fact that our movement so vehemently cuts itself off from the monistic mainstream of the Vedic tradition, while actually we are never more then a step away from monism in our philosophy.

 

Anyway, both broad-mind and considerable maturity are required to properly understand our philosophy. Going off the deep end like the sleeper-vadis here happens when neither of these things are available. Srila Prabhupada's teachings MUST be understood and explained in the broader context of our sampradaya. Otherwise our claims to our movement representing this sampradaya are null and void and our legitimacy in general is lost.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

"Become broad-minded"

 

If I ever decide to get a tattoo...

[Beggar]

Srila B.R. Sridhar Maharaj

The World of Dedication

So devotion has its beginning; the beginning of devotional life is here, where Krishna says 'vasudevah sarvam iti...' ("I, Vasudeva, am the source and substance of all that be" – BG 7:19). Then, the beginning of bhakti, the primary admission into the devotional school above jñana (knowledge) and vairagya (renunciation), that is santa-rasa ('passive' relation with the Lord). And from there, the gradation: dasya-rasa (servitude); then sakhya-rasa (fraternity); then vatsalya-rasa (parenthood); then madhura-rasa (conjugal love). All this is given in details in Ramananda-samvada⁶.

In this way, bhakti is going up. Systematically, we are to understand, and digest, digest what is bhakti. But, in the beginning, we are to have a broad conception of the positive world, the world of dedication.

[cbrahma]

 

I think becoming broad-minded has a lot of relevance here. The entire discussion requires ability to look at our tradition very, very broadly. Even the concept of Srila Prabhupada developing preaching ideas that dont necessarily follow Gaudiya siddhanta requires a very broad-minded approach.

 

I was always surprised at the fact that our movement so vehemently cuts itself off from the monistic mainstream of the Vedic tradition, while actually we are never more then a step away from monism in our philosophy.

 

Anyway, both broad-mind and considerable maturity are required to properly understand our philosophy. Going off the deep end like the sleeper-vadis here happens when neither of these things are available. Srila Prabhupada's teachings MUST be understood and explained in the broader context of our sampradaya. Otherwise our claims to our movement representing this sampradaya are null and void and our legitimacy in general is lost.

I've read works by previous acaryas such as Bhaktivinoda Thakura and find no suggestions of monism but rather a severe condemnation of it as exemplified by the Mayavadi school of thought.

[Beggar]

Srila B.R. Sridhar Maharaj

 

Sukadeva began to answer and everyone there in pin-drop silence began to listen to his words. His words were coming unquestionably as the absolute truth and were unanimously accepted by all. Present in that assembly were all the big scholars who had come to give some consolation to Pariksit Maharaja, "You are such a good Maharaja with good administration. You are unparalleled as well as a lover, respecter and protector of the brahminical yajna, faith, etc. Despite all these qualifications you have been cursed to die within seven days by the boy Srngi, a member of the brahmana section, and that is a very lamentable thing. His curse will prove to be fatal, and that is lamentable." In this way almost all the leaders of all different schools of philosophy came to give consolation to Maharaja Pariksit. It was in that well-represented assembly that Sukadeva was to speak.

Narada and Vyasadeva knew well that, "What teachings we are trying to inaugurate, the philosophy of the Bhagavata which for many sages seemed to be a very narrow and bigoted thing, a sectarian philosophy, when Sukadeva will speak this Bhagavatam he will give it in a very extensive way, illustrating the message of the Bhagavata with the widest color of expression."

Previously, Narada had expressed, "I gave ten poems as ten outlines about the philosohy of Bhagavata to Vyasadeva and he elaborately taught that to Sukadeva. Sukadeva has got some extensive credit and honor amongst all the types of scholars. He is a visionary of extraordinary insight. He is coming in that broad view of reality experienced by the liberated soul, and his understanding is percolated by his brahma conception, we are eager to see how this elaborated Srimad Bhagavatam shall be delivered to this world by him, retaining its transcendental characteristic. In order to do away with any mundane misconception the Bhagavata must pass through Sukadeva otherwise people may think philosophy of the Bhagavata to be a sectarian teaching and something mundane. He has got the broadest conception of view and his qualification is admitted by sages from all sides and traditions."

Narada and Vyasadeva were present and eagerly waiting. Happily they tasted how through brahma-jnana, through the widest touch, this Krishna-lila, this narration of the stories of Krishna's pastimes, which seems to be a narration of very limited and narrow things, passes through from Sukadev to the wider community of sages to become widely accepted by all.

All these gentlemen for seven days attended this meeting and they all listened to Sukadev with such eagerness.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Speaking of broad-minded, it's interesting to see Srila Prabhupada quoting the PUSA (among other figures).

 

I wish our current President spoke this way.

 

 

The President of the United States of America in a message to the Senate stated that "the underlying strength of the world consists in the moral fibre of citizens. A programme therefore of moral re-armament for the world cannot fail, to lessen the dangers of armed conflict. Such moral re-armament, to be most highly effective, must receive support on a world wide basis."

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

I've read works by previous acaryas such as Bhaktivinoda Thakura and find no suggestions of monism but rather a severe condemnation of it as exemplified by the Mayavadi school of thought.

 

How about this quote from Srila Prabhupada (from earlier in the discussion)?

 

 

Without entering into the details of these, we may take it for granted that fear of being destroyed and killed is an outcome of our association with material nature while in reality we are one with the transcendence. As such we have nothing to fear nor to be destroyed. The body is destructible but the spirit is not.

 

I'm not saying Srila Prabhupada was a monist, but Krishna Consciousness certainly *encompasses* monism and adds a whole new dimension to our understanding of Divinity.

[Kulapavana]

 

I've read works by previous acaryas such as Bhaktivinoda Thakura and find no suggestions of monism but rather a severe condemnation of it as exemplified by the Mayavadi school of thought.

 

Perhaps you should look closer, as in SB 1.4.4:

 

"His [Vyāsadeva's] son was a great devotee, an equibalanced monist, whose mind was always concentrated in monism. He was transcendental to mundane activities, but being unexposed, he appeared like an ignorant person."

 

Anyway, I dont want this discussion to go off-topic. I merely used it to point out the need of being broad-minded. And the point remains...

[cbrahma]

 

Perhaps you should look closer, as in SB 1.4.4:

 

"His [Vyāsadeva's] son was a great devotee, an equibalanced monist, whose mind was always concentrated in monism. He was transcendental to mundane activities, but being unexposed, he appeared like an ignorant person."

 

"Anyway, I dont want this discussion to go off-topic. I merely used it to point out the need of being broad-minded. And the point remains...

The approach to the theology of monism as held by Sri Vaisnavas and Ramanuja is different. Sri Vaisnavas propose that ultimate Reality, although one, is not Absolute without any differentiation. They admit the reality of the world and the plurality of souls within this world. The world appears real because it is real and not due to some form of illusion (maya) as Sankara proposes. Accordingly Ramanuja teaches three fundamental categories of Reality: God (isvara), soul (cit), and matter (acit). On the basis of the principle of organic relation he upholds that ultimate Reality is one as a unity. God, as the creator of the world, is the immanent ground or inner soul of existence. God sustains and controls both the individual souls as well as matter. Soul and matter are dependant on God for their very existence and are organically related to God in the same way as the physical body is related to the soul within. The oneness of Reality is understood not in the sense of absolute identity, but as an organic unity. Though there is absolute difference between God and the other two categories of Reality, and for that matter between soul and matter, ultimate Reality is considered one because as an organic unity it is one. In this sense Ramanuja's philosophy may be defined as "oneness of the organic unity" (visistadvaita). More commonly visistadvaita is translated as "differentiated" monism (visistadvaita) as opposed to Sankara's absolute monism (advaita)."

-Sampradaya Sun

So 'monism' is a slippery word not usually associated with pluralism (individuality of atomic souls).

This is a semantic razor's edge.