India this, India that

[Arjuna Haridas]

Namaste.

I say this with all due respect, but please do NOT say that India is "land of the Hindus" or that India is somehow holy.

 

If the Ganga dried up and began flowing in China, would China then be holy?

 

If every Hindu migrated to Europe and North America, would India still be holy?

 

If a god or goddess incarnates in the United States of America, then wouldn't America be holy?

 

Don't say "India is holy" because you are simply denouncing the rest of the land that Durga Maa has made inhabitable for us. Nothing in the material world is holy, since everything has its faults. The only thing that is holy is Durga Maa Who resides inside of us - inside of every atom, beautiful and ugly, and inside every soul, beautiful and ugly.

 

Sure, Varanasi is holy, and maybe the Ganga. But how does this make the land from Gujarat to Manipur the only holy land on Earth? Shouldn't China be more holy than India since it houses the holiest spot on Earth (Mt. Kailasha)?

 

The land I walk on is holy. The land you walk on is holy - regardless if the land is in Iraq, Pakistan, India, Russia, the USA, Canada, or Panama. We are all blessed by Mother, and we are all given life and have Her reside in everything. This makes every atom Holy because every atom is Her Abode.

 

I kiss the ground next to my house and I call this ground holy. You kiss the ground next to your home and you should call it holy, also. Because the whole of Bhuloka (and every atom and jiva) is not only the Abode of Durga Maa, but it is also personified as a Goddess.

 

If India is holy, then why is Makkah and Madinah not where there a man (Muhammad) who preached submittance to God walked? Why isn't Karbala considered sacred when there, another holy man (Imam Hussein bin Ali) layed down his life for his God? What about Afghanistan, where Abdul-Rahman was about to lay down his life for his God? Or maybe even Uhud, where at least 100 men layed down their lives for their God, lost the battle, and yet had stronger faith in Him afterwards? Or, how about Badr where 300 men defeated 1000 men in order to make Arabia safe for those who rejected polytheism?

 

I hope you get the point.

[celina12]

India is holy because that's where the majority of the history of Hinduism happened. And that's where most hindus are. As a non-Indian Hindu I don't expect you to hold India in any special or sacred regard. You can believe what you want. But most Hindus are indian, you converted to the wrong religion, if have a problem with India or Indians.

 

Hinduism has been indianized, because that's the culture and region it grew out of. As hinduism grows more diverse other cultures can make their staple and found different rites and sampradayas.

[Arjuna Haridas]

 

India is holy because that's where the majority of the history of Hinduism happened. And that's where most hindus are. As a non-Indian Hindu I don't expect you to hold India in any special or sacred regard. You can believe what you want. But most Hindus are indian, you converted to the wrong religion, if have a problem with India or Indians.

 

Hinduism has been indianized, because that's the culture and region it grew out of. As hinduism grows more diverse other cultures can make their staple and found different rites and sampradayas.

 

Most Muslims, Christians, and Jews live in the West, but they don't call the West holy. I know that some places in India is holy (Varanasi, Kurukshetra, etc.), but why is that one span of land from Gujarat to Manipur and from Kashmir to Tamil Nadu the ONLY holy land? Hindu history didn't happen in some of those cities/towns. What about the land where Rama walked - Sri Lanka? Or, the land where any Paramahamsa walked? Scriptures state that the land where a Paramahansa walks/walked is holy, and many Paramahansa have walked in Western lands (Swami Vivekananda is a great example here).

 

I have no problem with Indians (the government of India, however...), but remember that Hinduism isn't Indian at all. Hinduism (or Sanatana Dharma) is purely spiritual, and souls don't come from and don't end up in India. When I die, I won't be asked "Where you Indian?" and then have to be reincarnated because I wasn't. When the Western Paramahamsa dies, he won't be asked the same question, either. When a bloodthirsty immoral Indian man dies, he won't automatically acheieve moksha because he was Indian.

[indulekhadasi]

 

Most Muslims, Christians, and Jews live in the West, but they don't call the West holy.

 

Well, that is their fault. India is extremely holy having pilgramages such as Kashi, Varanasi, Vrindavana, Puri, etc. But when a deity of the Lord comes to another place such as America, that certain place also becomes just as holy. If the Ganga flowed into China, then China definitely would be holy by the touch of Ganga Ma. Who says that Ganga can only purify India? Remember the Ganga is on all planetary systems. She is in the spiritual world, coming down from Lord Visnu's toe. She is in the heavenly planets as Mandakini. She is on earth as the Ganga. She goes down to even Patala loka.

[Sephiroth]

 

Namaste.

I say this with all due respect, but please do NOT say that India is "land of the Hindus" or that India is somehow holy.

 

If India is holy, then why is Makkah and Madinah not where there a man (Muhammad) who preached submittance to God walked? Why isn't Karbala considered sacred when there, another holy man (Imam Hussein bin Ali) layed down his life for his God? What about Afghanistan, where Abdul-Rahman was about to lay down his life for his God? Or maybe even Uhud, where at least 100 men layed down their lives for their God, lost the battle, and yet had stronger faith in Him afterwards? Or, how about Badr where 300 men defeated 1000 men in order to make Arabia safe for those who rejected polytheism?

 

I hope you get the point.

 

Hmmm ... Since when Muslims started to preach Islamic doctrines here?

 

India is Holy not because of the Ganges River or it's people. India is Holy because it is holy for Hindus who live and practise Hindusm there. Matter a fact, any place where Hindu live and practise Hindusm IS holy to such Hindu. If a Hindu practise his way of living and prayers in his own home, then his own home is Holy to God. If a Hindu has no home (a Sannyasi) and he still lives for God, then his own body and heart is Holy to God.

 

In Judaism, it is stated that a Human body is the Temple of God, for God resides in Heart of Man. I believe there something similar in Bhavagad Gita, forgot which verses it was.

 

As for Muslims ... DO NOT MAKE THEM AS MATRAYS IN HINDUSM AS WELL.

 

I don't believe that God required any Man to go and die for Him. I don't believe that God who created everything - from the largest of galaxies to the smallest of atoms needs parasites like Muslims to die defending Him. That is purely INSULT to God if anyone things such way.

 

Muslims does not die for God. They never had, they do not now, and they will never do in the future. ONLY reason why Muslims dying in useless manners today and for the past 1,400 years is because Muhammad had preached that they will get to heaven where they will enjoy 72 virgins. THIS IS THE ONLY REASONS.

[Arjuna Haridas]

 

Hmmm ... Since when Muslims started to preach Islamic doctrines here?

 

India is Holy not because of the Ganges River or it's people. India is Holy because it is holy for Hindus who live and practise Hindusm there. Matter a fact, any place where Hindu live and practise Hindusm IS holy to such Hindu. If a Hindu practise his way of living and prayers in his own home, then his own home is Holy to God. If a Hindu has no home (a Sannyasi) and he still lives for God, then his own body and heart is Holy to God.

 

In Judaism, it is stated that a Human body is the Temple of God, for God resides in Heart of Man. I believe there something similar in Bhavagad Gita, forgot which verses it was.

The point I'm trying to make is that Hindus are saying that India is the ONLY holy land on Earth. I'm not denying that India is holy, I'm just saying that India isn't the ONLY holy land (for the umpteenth time). Why is India holy but my land isn't? I'm a Hindu, also, correct? And I pray in my own home.

 

But what does land have to do with anything? If I pray here or there, does it really matter? Every atom has the Supreme residing in it, and the same for every soul. Since this makes every atom and soul a Divine Abode for the Divine Brahma-Shakti, then this makes every atom and soul sacred and holy, and not just the atoms that make up the land called "India".

 

 

As for Muslims ... DO NOT MAKE THEM AS MATRAYS IN HINDUSM AS WELL.

 

I don't believe that God required any Man to go and die for Him. I don't believe that God who created everything - from the largest of galaxies to the smallest of atoms needs parasites like Muslims to die defending Him. That is purely INSULT to God if anyone things such way.

 

Muslims does not die for God. They never had, they do not now, and they will never do in the future. ONLY reason why Muslims dying in useless manners today and for the past 1,400 years is because Muhammad had preached that they will get to heaven where they will enjoy 72 virgins. THIS IS THE ONLY REASONS.

Only after learning about the philosophy of others' from their perspective can a man truly say that he follows Sanatana Dharma.

[indulekhadasi]

 

The point I'm trying to make is that Hindus are saying that India is the ONLY holy land on Earth. I'm not denying that India is holy, I'm just saying that India isn't the ONLY holy land (for the umpteenth time). Why is India holy but my land isn't? I'm a Hindu, also, correct? And I pray in my own home.

 

But what does land have to do with anything? If I pray here or there, does it really matter? Every atom has the Supreme residing in it, and the same for every soul. Since this makes every atom and soul a Divine Abode for the Divine Brahma-Shakti, then this makes every atom and soul sacred and holy, and not just the atoms that make up the land called "India".

 

 

Only after learning about the philosophy of others' from their perspective can a man truly say that he follows Sanatana Dharma.

 

You are right here, this was my point. Wherever there is prayer that place automatically becomes holy.

[Tantrayoga]

 

The point I'm trying to make is that Hindus are saying that India is the ONLY holy land on Earth. I'm not denying that India is holy, I'm just saying that India isn't the ONLY holy land (for the umpteenth time). Why is India holy but my land isn't? I'm a Hindu, also, correct? And I pray in my own home.

 

But what does land have to do with anything? If I pray here or there, does it really matter? Every atom has the Supreme residing in it, and the same for every soul. Since this makes every atom and soul a Divine Abode for the Divine Brahma-Shakti, then this makes every atom and soul sacred and holy, and not just the atoms that make up the land called "India".

 

 

Only after learning about the philosophy of others' from their perspective can a man truly say that he follows Sanatana Dharma.

 

 

From a Shakta perspective, every atom has Godly presence in it. And thus can be considered holy. (or unholy if you don't believe in it.)

Why is India considered holy or holier than other places is the question.

It is due to the quality and quantity of holy vibrations that it has absorbed, has been reflecting through millions of years is what makes it holy and holier than most other places. When a spiritually awakened illumined soul, master of high order performs his tapas in a place, the place, its atoms absorb the subtle spiritual vibrations that definitely affect the gross physical and subtle planes. And a person visiting such place can feel it. This also affects the lives of people coming in contact with it. India has been the land of such illumined masters of the highest orders through ages, who have blessed this land with their presence, powers, miracles and so on, evoking Godly consciousness.

God is everywhere. According to this logic, if he is in a temple, he is on a busy road too!!! Since he is present in every atom. Then why is a temple more holy than a busy road? The answer is obvious. isn't it? Although the general laws of karma would apply to you just as on the road as in a temple. But some highly holy areas even neutralize that to a good extent. And we may even witness something what we call as a miracle.

 

There have been various avatars, incarnations of highly evolved souls / spiritual masters who came here on special spiritual missions, who were able to change and mould the masses and time as per higher motives in harmony with the higher mahashakti.

Everything is naturally in tune with the state of being holy or being capable of a holy harmony in India. The environment, people, surroundings, vibrations support it readily. Every land has its own aura and vibrations. You naturally feel calm and contented in one place and agitated and upset in another without an obvious reason.

 

Spiritual knowledge and realization of the highest order, the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Rishis, Yogis, Guru paramparas, the Himalayas, the Gods and Goddesses manifesting themselves in various forms and ways, the holy rivers, the festivals, and - the ability of the common man in India to recognize the highest soul and appreciate it while its still there in its particular manifestation. All this makes India holy and holier than say your backyard!!

Why did St. Kabir, Goswami Tulsidas, Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Rishi Vashishtha, Vishwamitra, Lord Shri Krsna, Lord Ramachandra, Gautam Buddha, Mahavir, and many many others appear in Bharatvarsha?? Not in China or Israel? This is the question. Why did they chose India? This is the question. Jesus appeared in the west. And what they did with him? He preached higher spiritual philosophy to them. In return they crucified him!!! Socrates was given poison. But people in India worshipped Rama, they worshipped Lord Krsna in their lifetimes!!! They recognized and worshipped them. Certainly India is blessed. And it is holy. Despite the present industrialization and commercialization, even of the religious organizations. The subtle spiritual vibrations still hold India. And even today it is capable of guiding the whole world in spirituality, in the highest fields of mantra, tantra, philosophy, yog and various Vedic branches of knowledge.

 

Of course one may develop spiritual insight and progress spiritually worshipping and practicing yoga in the seclusion of his own home. He doesn't necessarily have to climb the Himalayas for that. He can contact and experience God communion in his own room, IF he has the right Guru, the right technique, unflinching bhakti, devotion and attitude towards it.

If you have the right knowledge and method, the Brahma shakti present in every atom of this universe will answer your call, no matter where you are. THEN it doesn't really matter. But you will have to develop and 'earn' that level of spiritual shakti. And as shakti is earned, it is also wasted. Anyone who is serious about mantra yoga, or any form of yoga knows this. The spiritual vibrations of a holy place helps sustain this energy level and helps it grow. You can do that on your own. With triple the effort. Just like a Guru helps a disciple with his shakti to progress faster. The disciple can keep trying on his own too. That's his choice.

 

And yes of course the west has also produced its own saints who have experienced God communion and have blessed the people with their presence, Godly vibrations and miracles. Although, the level of in-depth study and spiritual development methods were developed and have been practiced in India is unparalleled anywhere in the world.

 

But coming in touch with the spiritual "hot spots" or hubs emanating spiritual vibrations through ages, will render its own unparalleled benefits and blessings. That's why Hindus say India is the only place that has this level of spiritual depth and development in all areas, even though there are good spiritual places in other countries too and places that have beautiful and healthy spiritual natural environments.

 

Best regards.

[Sephiroth]

Arjuna Haridas :

 

 

I'm not denying that India is holy, I'm just saying that India isn't the ONLY holy land (for the umpteenth time). Why is India holy but my land isn't? I'm a Hindu, also, correct? And I pray in my own home.

 

 

You may have a beautiful home, but it will not support hundreds of devotees to come for primilage.

 

And you may consider your home as holy, which no one is denying. A Holy place is where devotees come and pay their homage to their God in peace and tranquility, NOT where you live and sleep.

 

 

But what does land have to do with anything? If I pray here or there, does it really matter?

 

Trust me ... this has nothing to do with you. You can consider whatever place as Holy, God may think otherwise.

 

 

... this makes every atom and soul sacred and holy, and not just the atoms that make up the land called "India".

 

 

Hmph ... do me a favour. Take this "philosopy" of yours and go and talk to Muslims about their Mecca being holy place. I wish to see how long your head will remain intact.

 

 

Only after learning about the philosophy of others' from their perspective can a man truly say that he follows Sanatana Dharma.

 

I have learn their false beliefs enough to say that Muslims follows no God, just some make-belief diety which Muhammad have cooked up to hide his own weakness.

[tackleberry]

Excellent answers by everyone, Sephiroth, TY, and others. People who refuse to accept India's divinity are doing so out of jealousy, that's all. What more evidence do these doubters want, aside from the fact that God and his devotees repeatedly choose India, yuga after yuga?

[Tantrayoga]

 

Excellent answers by everyone, Sephiroth, TY, and others. People who refuse to accept India's divinity are doing so out of jealousy, that's all. What more evidence do these doubters want, aside from the fact that God and his devotees repeatedly choose India, yuga after yuga?

 

hmm.. jealousy yes possibly.

Another reason that I've seen for opposing forms of spirituality and religious cultures coming from India is some form of orthodoxy.

For example Christian orthodox people or say some Christian protestants or other particular churches see it as a threat to their existence as a sect or something and oppose and condemn it among their followers. Most muslim groups do that too.

Opposition usually comes from radical groups. Who of course have their own narrow minded idea of 'God' and are jealous.

[Arjuna Haridas]

 

Arjuna Haridas :

 

 

 

You may have a beautiful home, but it will not support hundreds of devotees to come for primilage.

 

And you may consider your home as holy, which no one is denying. A Holy place is where devotees come and pay their homage to their God in peace and tranquility, NOT where you live and sleep.

 

If I live and sleep in the same place where I pay homage to Mother, then my home is holy.

 

 

 

Hmph ... do me a favour. Take this "philosopy" of yours and go and talk to Muslims about their Mecca being holy place. I wish to see how long your head will remain intact.

 

 

 

I have learn their false beliefs enough to say that Muslims follows no God, just some make-belief diety which Muhammad have cooked up to hide his own weakness.

 

Islam is a whole different subject.

 

 

Excellent answers by everyone, Sephiroth, TY, and others. People who refuse to accept India's divinity are doing so out of jealousy, that's all. What more evidence do these doubters want, aside from the fact that God and his devotees repeatedly choose India, yuga after yuga?

 

I have trouble believing that the place where women are raped, people are killed, places of worship are bombed, rivers are polluted, and nuclear weapons are being built is automatically holy. Should this country we call India expand to include China, then would China be holy?

 

Incarnations appeared in places such as Kurukshetra and Kailasha. They did not appear in Manipur. So why is Manipur holy? Because it is part of the same country where there are holy places?

 

How can you say that I don't accept India as the SOLE holy place on Earth that I am somehow jealous? If it was up to me, I wouldn't wish that I lived in India; I'd wish that I was already liberated. India-centrism is a result of the Indianization of Hinduism, and this India-centrism is manifest in the sentence "India is the only holy land on Earth".

 

What will happen when Kalki comes and takes over the world? Will you then finally agree that the whole world is Holy and not just the land that is governed by the Rashtrapati Pratibha Patil?

[Hiren50]

Holy apart, I also find it surprising abiout India being a spiritual country. India is a country with a lot of spiritual knowledge no doubt but when you think about implementation, one wonders. If a majority of people truly believed in spiritual detachment, India would not have been named one of the most corrupt countries in the world by transparency international. What is so holy about the caste system that continues to this day.?

 

India has reason to be proud of things like Ayurveda, Yoga, Zen and Viipasana meditation, The game of Chess and many of the things displayed in the Akshardaham temple in Delhi that originated in India. The focus should be more on the present than how great we were in the past.

[Tantrayoga]

Namaskar!

 

If someone is really interested in Indian spirituality and history... , and I am saying "Indian" spirituality, because the pinnacle of spiritual wisdom, both in theory and practice was reached in India, long before a time when your other 'spiritual' places were being roamed by people who were only interested in mms (meat, mating and sex). .. well mostly. Anyone who has gone deeper into the teachings and practices that emanated from the Indian subcontinent and affected the world at large, will be in a position to understand this. He can come to terms with and realize the depth of India's spiritual service. The vast practical knowledge and wisdom of ancient Rishis, sages that is still practical. And I can say it from my own experience.

Indian spirituality - if understood, then good. Otherwise, its just a newspaper headline debate. Nothing more.

 

We are focusing on the present now. But again, any spiritually, factually and historically sound person would know that the present is a continuation of the past and is affected by the past, just as the future is affected by the present. Present day India has been plagued by 900 years of constant and barbaric muslim invasions and desecration of authentic Indian spiritual culture and almost 200 hundred years of british raj that looted and robbed India of all it could it. Why don't you consider this?

Russia was invaded by Mongols and Tatars for 200-300 years and its solid impact can be felt. Even the many Russians claim that Russia was once Vedic, but only the Indians were able to maintain the Vedic knowledge. And not only knowledge, but practices as well. Doesn't this say something about India to someone?

You can't judge India's spiritual culture, by walking onto a place where someone took some money for giving you a favor. Now centuries of spiritual culture is labeled 'Corrupt'! You would meet a fake sadhu, and you can label India spirituality and Hinduism as "Fake"!!

I would say, it has everything in it!! you can't always judge a person by whether he has carefully set his hairstyle one particular day or not. Just as you can't judge a woman, who hasn't got a great figure to flaunt, but is a beautiful person inside out.

The country is a whole organism, affected by multiple factors. If India has maintained spiritual wisdom through all this, it is a huge feat.

There are people living in India, who are very pious and spiritual, there are people who can initiate you into an authentic branch of spiritual practice and give you totality in life, show you the way to get over the samsara of birth and death - not an ordinary thing. Then there are people who are corrupt and shallow. You can meet the first few or the later. You will pull what you seek towards yourself. Think of Krsna and you will move towards Krsna Consciousness. Think of an all night orgy in a club, you'll have that.

 

We say Indian Hinduism or Indian spirituality, because it is the place where it emanated from!!! This is a historical fact!!! India or Bharatvarsh is the place from where it emanated and spread worldwide!! India or Bharatvarsh is the place that was the epicenter of the Aryan civilization. It is where it spread to other parts. Not the other way round! the glory of King Vikramaditya's Kindom spread upto Arvasthan or present Arabia. Olden Kaba temple found gold plate hung with poetry singing his glory and his impact on the people there too. I reject the "aryan invasion" theory cooked up by Max Muller and the brit band that places Aryans coming to wild India about some 2000 years b.C. They cooked up the twisted well and ill publicized in the west 'cast system' of India, that was again a result of the mogul dynasty's oppression. The proper varnashram and cast system if understood properly is a good system. Politics twisted it to meet their ends. And the brahmin culture was also deteriorated during a certain period.

 

When a lot of people in the west come in contact with spirituality, they imagine that everyone in India is supposed to be sitting under the banyan tree meditating and chanting mantras. Then there are the ones who think that all of India is just like those travel documentaries with unpaved roads and naked kids running in the streets. And of course not over-idealizing, I can say on the other hand, that the current ecology, socio-political structure and climate in India is not very favorable. There is corruption. And things are not ideal. There is economic and computer boom in the country. And the present government regime is screwing up the middle class by hiking up prices on just about everything and bringing up industrialists at the cost of common man. There is over-population. Educated manpower. Lots of competition. Job market is also good. India is powerful and nuclear capable. But spirituality hasn't really taken up a back seat either. Because with the ever increasing western influence and keeping pace with modern day fast standards, the natural thirst of the soul also needs to be quenched somewhere in everyone. Some have found their path. Others are still seeking. Yet others are yet to come to the need for the search. But the people get tired and bored running in their rat race.

 

Not everyone is exactly implying and demonstrating the scriptural descriptions of spirituality in their lives. Not everybody is wearing 'dhotis' and have shaven heads or long sadhu style matted hair locks here. But there is plenty of spirituality in India, that will last this world.

Spirituality is not a circus act. Nor its a play that u can come and see!!! IT simply 'IS'. Like the sun or the moon.

If you come see to India seeking spirituality, but get entangled in other things, then it doesn't make the spirituality or India bad or corrupt.

You have to seek it. Cheap things are readily available everywhere and visible simply. Acts and shows are promoted.

Spirituality is there always and everywhere, because its inside you! And India can help you find it! More than anywhere else. Hinduism helps in showing it to you where and how to find it. You can find it in your own home too. Spirituality is not a bondage. It is freedom of the soul.

 

Hinduism and its philosophies have important tools and instruments that can help you see it. Groom it. Open it. And it was developed to shining perfection in India. Not in Africa or America. Hinduism, because it is all encompassing. It is like an ocean that has everything in it. Different branches, different lines of philosophies. A way for everyone - personal, impersonal, every kind of yoga, bhakti, sadhna practice, fulfilling spiritual-material life, one complete understanding of Sanatan Dharm.

 

Of course, you can't label spirituality as exactly India or something else. Its a state of consciousness. But the methods to reach and understand your own spiritual consciousness raising it to divine consciousness with yog were developed to a perfection in this places called India. There IS a depth and vastness to it here.

One may come to India, look deeper inside and be able to see it, or simply get entangled in the upper crust of dirt and hawkers and corruption. You will find everything in India. Seek spirituality, art, culture, music .. you will find that with the deepest roots. Seek something else, you will find that too.

So we say - India this ... India that ... cuz India is this ... and that too!!!

What are YOU looking for (?) - is the question!!

Warm regards.

[Hiren50]

I had given a point by point reply to the above but for some reason, the message keeps coming that I cannot insert urls when I have not given any web message. I will sum it up by saying that if a majority of what is written in the scriptures is followed by a majority of Indians, India can be deemed spiritual in letter and spirit.

[suchandra]

 

I had given a point by point reply to the above but for some reason, the message keeps coming that I cannot insert urls when I have not given any web message. I will sum it up by saying that if a majority of what is written in the scriptures is followed by a majority of Indians, India can be deemed spiritual in letter and spirit.

I tried to post with an url and it works...

 

 

Of purifiers I am the wind; of the wielders of weapons I am Rama; of fishes I am the shark, and of flowing rivers I am the Ganges.

BG 10.31

www.vedabase.net

[Sephiroth]

by Arjuna Haridas

 

 

If I live and sleep in the same place where I pay homage to Mother, then my home is holy.

 

Like I said, this have nothing to do with you. Your home maybe holy to you, but then again, even the lowest prostitute may consider her home to be holy to her. While we cannot argue with such ppl, we cannot accept her statement either.

 

 

Islam is a whole different subject.

 

And how is Islam different? I don't see any difference here.

 

Matter a fact, Muslim parasites are worst if compared to mild-mannered Hindus when comes to holy palace. Even in the most sacred places of Hindus like Varanasi, non-Hindus are still allow within the city if they come in peace in heart and mind.

 

Muslims have already stated that non-Muslims are not allowed within the city of Mecca, simply because they are not Muslims. In my opinion, Holy Place of God is a place which welcomes ALL.

 

 

Should this country we call India expand to include China, then would China be holy?

 

Chinese are Atheists ... animals. They are not even humans. Why should Chinese and China be included in India?

 

And India is holy because of Hindus, not because of Godless Muslims or foolish Christians or animalistic Atheists who rapes, plunders and live like animals. Hindus are those who follow the ways of their forefathers, not the ways of the invaders.

 

 

How can you say that I don't accept India as the SOLE holy place on Earth that I am somehow jealous?

 

You are jealous because if India alone is consider holy, then that could make the rest of the World impure. And as a non-Hindu, you don't like to consider that Mecca is unholy or the Vatican City as unholy. So, Yes, you are jealous of India ... like most Muslims and Christians for the past 1,000 years.

 

 

by tackleberry

 

 

People who refuse to accept India's divinity are doing so out of jealousy, that's all. What more evidence do these doubters want, aside from the fact that God and his devotees repeatedly choose India, yuga after yuga?

 

If someone were to ask why God could choose India, I think it is because of Hindus' way of life. I'm a person who believe in Evolution, that Man can and will progress through life to be something greater than what he is now. Like Gautama Buddha did.

 

And I believe, the reason why India is choose is because only in India, people can live properly - Spiritualy, Mentally and Physically.

 

India have been experimenting with Vegetarians lifestyle, Meditation, Yoga, Science of Ayurveda and so many more, and able to break apart from the shackles of Modern Development if the need arises. No other nations in the World has such developments of Ancient times and this could be necessary for Humanity to continue for the next yuga. At least, that's what I believe.

[Arjuna Haridas]

 

Chinese are Atheists ... animals. They are not even humans. Why should Chinese and China be included in India?

The Chinese are just as human as you and me. Many of them follow Buddhism which is one of the many paths of Sanatana Dharma. Some follow Islam and Christianity and they die and suffer for their beliefs. If this is not human and if this is not faith, then I'd gladly call myself an animal.

 

Atheists have given me food. Atheists have donated to those who give food. Atheists have given me advice and comfort. Atheists have shown me love. Atheists have shown me reason and free-thinking, and if it weren't for them, I'd still be Christian.

 

When the time has come where the Atheist is more kind to others than the Hindu, we should probably pray for the end of the Kali Yuga.

 

 

And India is holy because of Hindus, not because of Godless Muslims or foolish Christians or animalistic Atheists who rapes, plunders and live like animals. Hindus are those who follow the ways of their forefathers, not the ways of the invaders.

Can you blame an entire group based on the actions of a few? Haven't Hindus bombed mosques and killed inncoent Muslims in India (Ayodhya and Gujarat come to mind here)?

 

I also seem to remember Hindus raping women and looting. But these are real Hindus, right? Why don't you abandon the double-standard?

 

 

You are jealous because if India alone is consider holy, then that could make the rest of the World impure. And as a non-Hindu, you don't like to consider that Mecca is unholy or the Vatican City as unholy. So, Yes, you are jealous of India ... like most Muslims and Christians for the past 1,000 years.

You are living proof of why it's so hard to be a Western Hindu. This "Holy-than-thou-art" attitude shown from Indian Hindus to Western Hindus leads many deserving souls away from Hinduism while the undeserving remain Hindu. You call Muhammad an animal, yet even Muhammad scolded himself for turning down a poor man. You are taking the moral highground yet doing the same thing you accuse the beast of doing.

 

Why is Mecca holy? Because every year, millions of Muslim men and women risk their lives (there have been many deaths on the Hajj) to submit themselves to their God and preform a ritual which they believe will please their God. Have you ever been to Mecca? The sense of brotherhood there is strong. So strong that even Malcolm X abandoned his belief that whites are devils and accepted that all are equal. Such a brotherhood that you will not experience anywhere else on Earth. If this is Godless, then I am Godless.

 

Why is the Vatican holy? Because here is where laws are made that focus on the worship of Yahweh/Jehovah and the Pope lives here. As we can see from the last Pope (John Paul II), these people are bonafide. If this is Foolish, then I am Foolish.

 

Aushwitz and the many other Nazi Concentration Camps, where thousands of Jews were killed because they refused to give up their belief in their God. Israel, where Jews were martyred thousands of years ago because they thought it was comanded to them from their God. I can go on and on.

 

Why is India holy? Because here, many holy men walk and many people have risked their lives for Sanatana Dharma. The criterion that we judge the holiness of India by is no different than the criterion that we judge the rest of the world by.

 

And just to let you know, I am a Hindu.

[Sephiroth]

Arjuna Haridas :

 

 

The Chinese are just as human as you and me. Many of them follow Buddhism which is one of the many paths of Sanatana Dharma.

 

Buddhism which they follow is not the Buddhism which Gautama Buddha had preached. The Buddhism they follow is Mahayana Buddhism. Therefore, it is not considered to be following Sanatana Dharma.

 

 

Atheists have given me food.

 

So what? Many people feed dogs and cats the same way they have feed you and now, you're licking their hands. What makes you so special?

 

 

Can you blame an entire group based on the actions of a few? Haven't Hindus bombed mosques and killed inncoent Muslims in India (Ayodhya and Gujarat come to mind here)?

 

There's NO innocent Muslims in India. Muslims are ppl who comes from converts and invaders who settle in India after killing Hindus for the past 1,000 years. Pitying them is like pitying the pain a dog must have felt when it bite you and it's teeth hurt.

 

 

I also seem to remember Hindus raping women and looting. /QUOTE]

 

Funny ... I don't remember any Hindus raping women and loothing, or using Hindusm as excuses to do all this things like what Muslims doing. You must be lying again.

 

 

 

There's no Western Hindu or Eastern Hindu. IF a person is a Hindu, he or she will learn his/her own beliefs properly and follow it. NOT DAMN HIS BELIEF SO HE COULD KISS UP TO NON-HINDUS LIKE YOU.

 

 

 

That is why Muhammad was STUPID. He scold himself for WHAT? USELESS. How can such useless man be a prophet of God?

 

Muhammad doesn't know how to read and write. And despite of living for 60 yrs and with people who can read and write, Muhammad NEVER taken any steps to learn how to read and write. WHY?

 

Muhammad started off as a businessman and worked as a businessman for 15 yrs. His business was good enough that he could travel as far as Syria for his wife, Khatijah. By right, he should provide a good example for Muslims on how to progress in life. But at the end of his lifetime, he was poor and misearable. WHY?

 

Answer - because he was STUPID. He don't bother to learn new things or improve himself. Same way Muslims don't bother to live properly and end up living like animals. MUHAMMAD IS NOT PROPHET OF GOD.

 

 

 

Hmph ... and just how many people die during primilage to holy spots in India like Varanasi? This shows that God is with those who come to see Him and He will protect those who come to see Him.

 

The very fact that muslims die in Haj shows that no God protects Muslims, for there is no God in Islam.

 

 

 

God lives in our hearts, FOOL. Not in some city or because of some old men who calls himself Pope. That is Judaism, Laws set by Yahweh, the God of Israel.

 

 

 

Cemetary and place of the dead does not makes such place holy. God stated that He could keeps their soul close to Him, not honor the place where they were abused and killed.

 

 

 

I could very much doubt that.

[Tantrayoga]

 

Haven't Hindus bombed mosques and killed inncoent Muslims in India (Ayodhya and Gujarat come to mind here)?

 

Namaskar!

 

umm... I can see your point here Arjuna.. but Hindus didn't bomb any mosque except the Babri mosque that was a symbol of oppression and brutality and was in disuse for a long long time! It seems you haven't really read into the Indian history of the last 1000 years. Maybe all humans can be treated equally on humanitarian grounds. Good! But proper viveka or judgement is necessary too. If we could view all humans as exactly the same, no matter what they did, then Lord Krsna wouldn't have encouraged Arjuna to participate in the great war of Mahabharata or pick up a weapon against other humans! We are the offsprings of this Mahan Bharata in deed. And we must live upto its name. Everybody hurts (as goes the REM song), but some things are justified, some not.

 

 

You are living proof of why it's so hard to be a Western Hindu.

 

Your being Hindu maybe a new and in transition of sorts. Maybe you are struggling with beliefs. Or have establishes one belief and feel opposition towards the other? Never-mind. Transition is not an easy phase as it destroys the old whilst the new has not yet been fully established. And this holds true not only for "western" or eastern Hindus. This holds very true for one's struggles in life too. It holds true if you have decided to change your life from one type of belief system, one type of living to another. It even holds true if you are freshly becoming a vegetarian from a meat eater. Hinduism or eternal Sanatana Dharma has truths pertaining to the soul, life and God that can be applicable to anyone "western or eastern Hindus. A Hindu is a Hindu.

 

 

Why is Mecca holy? Because every year, millions of Muslim men and women risk their lives (there have been many deaths on the Hajj) to submit themselves to their God and preform a ritual which they believe will please their God. Have you ever been to Mecca? The sense of brotherhood there is strong. So strong that even Malcolm X abandoned his belief that whites are devils and accepted that all are equal. Such a brotherhood that you will not experience anywhere else on Earth. If this is Godless, then I am Godless.

 

Well noted. I've been to Mecca at least virtually through a detailed documentary by a western Christian turned muslim lady. The sense of brotherhood indeed is strong there. In all the rituals. But the brotherhood is limited only to like minded muslims. God and his likeness has been limited. God has to be formless here. And the ancient Gods of Mecca, who's broken by Mohammed's command idols remains lay in a pit are stoned with great "godly" fervor amongst the 'devotees'. Go to Meccas and declare that you are a "Hindu" and are overwhelmed with the muslim Godly brotherhood and that you want to pray to God in a Hindu way in Mecca. Will the muslims be happy? Tell them that you are so glad that they have a Shivalingam in the temple of Mecca and you have come to pray to it in this Godly place, since God is one and everywhere. It will be interesting to see this experience, isn't it? Brotherhood also comes easily where there is staunch fanaticism. But then, I've seen brotherhood in a bar. There is brotherhood amongst the jehadis, who are ready to lay down their very lives for the sake of a common goal! Where would you see such brotherhood? Hindus are not doing that!! So they certainly aren't that brotherly for one!!

As the Hadiths state, Mohammed was haunted by a spirit ghost who would say things to him. And he was afraid of him. More than twice he tried to take his own life by jumping off the cliff, but was warned by the same ghostly spirit. He married Aisha who was a small child .. what.. 8 years old? That was Godly alright!!

 

I've got a small ebook that I can send you, if you want. This is about the muslim invasion of India. The extent of loot, rape, killings in most gruesome manners that India witnessed during that period can't be described without tears!!! thousands of beautiful Hindu young virgin women were forcibly taken and stuffed into harems of so called Kind hearted emperors like Shahjahan and others. If you go to the Agra Fort you can see this harem too with your own eyes. It had 5,000 women! And then Shahjahan took over The Taj mahal from Maharaja Jai Singh which was a Shiva Temple. Desecrated the deities and Shivalingam in it. Superimposed Koranic letters in black on it and wrote a legend of his eternal love for ONE woman he ever loved!!! Most temples and ancient most precious scriptures were destroyed!! Ayodhya and Mathura , Varanasi and Vrindavana are just an example of this. Babar a foreign invader from Samarkand and Bukhara destroyed the sacred Rama temple in Ayodhya and erected an empty mosque in its place. This place had a deep and holy history to it. It was and is revered as a very holy place by millions of Hindus all over the world. Finally this mosque that was in disuse for many many years was torn down. And immediately hundreds of Hindu temples were destroyed the very next day all over the muslim world. What is holy? Where is that place? Indeed the muslims have a brotherhood as you have noticed in your comments. They have been specializing in destroying temples and deities all through their history of existence. oh and the Twin Towers in New York.. were they also destroyed by the muslims?.. never mind. Important is that they are brotherly while at the mecca!! Even though they are the fiercest against the rest of the world just because they are non muslims.

 

If you went to the holy pilgrimages of Amarnath, kedarnatha and Badrinath, Mt. Kailash, Vaishno Devi you would find a lot of brotherhood too where devotees go with a clean heart and mind for the holy pilgrimage. Each year many pilgrims are killed under landslides in these difficult Himalayan terrains. But they don't care, they chant the holy name and keep on climbing, just to see their beloved Deity!

And they don't kill people or tear down mosques or churches when they come back!!

 

 

Why is the Vatican holy? Because here is where laws are made that focus on the worship of Yahweh/Jehovah and the Pope lives here. As we can see from the last Pope (John Paul II), these people are bonafide. If this is Foolish, then I am Foolish.

 

No you are not foolish. You are just trying to make a point clear in your own way. To be able to see God everywhere.

But interestingly enough, I was watching a documentary on the Vatican the other say. Just about a week ago. This lady who was a Vatican insider and was thorough with inside history and facts was telling how the secret lovers of the popes used them to reach their brothers and others to the top in politics since the Vatican influenced the King and enjoyed a lot of power there.

 

To come to some sort of an understanding, again we have to come back to the roots, to the Vedic civilization, to the Vedic concept and understanding of God and Man, to the Bhagwat Gita. Man can find God and feel the holiness a place anywhere, if he has touched upon that holiness inside him. If he has been able to reach his higher self and reached God Consciousness or Krsna Consciousness. Otherwise, he will be throwing stones to the Gods standing in Mecca and feeling himself Godly.

 

 

Why is India holy? Because here, many holy men walk and many people have risked their lives for Sanatana Dharma. The criterion that we judge the holiness of India by is no different than the criterion that we judge the rest of the world by.

And just to let you know, I am a Hindu.

 

Maybe. But the rest of the world didn't meet much of that criteria really.

And that's the reason, why Rama, Krsna, Buddha, Mahavir, and many great souls and super-souls chose India for their lilas. Krsna would be Krsna even if he would have appeared in the Mecca?! But there WAS a reason why he chose India after all !!

On an internal level though, if you are in touch with your spirituality, then you are spiritual in a shamshan or a temple. Christ was Christ, when he was in Jerusalem, when he was in India and when he was on the cross.

Namaskar and kind regards.

[Arjuna Haridas]

You are as militant as the Muslims to hate so much, Sephiroth.

 

 

Arjuna Haridas :

 

Buddhism which they follow is not the Buddhism which Gautama Buddha had preached. The Buddhism they follow is Mahayana Buddhism. Therefore, it is not considered to be following Sanatana Dharma.

According to you? Do you have any proof that Buddhists somehow follow a corrupted religion? Let me guess: Vaishnavism is true Buddhism?

 

 

 

 

So what? Many people feed dogs and cats the same way they have feed you and now, you're licking their hands. What makes you so special?

It proves that Atheists aren't heartless beings since they feed the hungry - human and animal.

 

 

 

 

There's NO innocent Muslims in India. Muslims are ppl who comes from converts and invaders who settle in India after killing Hindus for the past 1,000 years. Pitying them is like pitying the pain a dog must have felt when it bite you and it's teeth hurt.

You're kidding me, right? Just because someone invaded years ago doesn't mean that all Muslims should be killed. Your whole argument is a joke.

 

 

I also seem to remember Hindus raping women and looting.

Funny ... I don't remember any Hindus raping women and loothing, or using Hindusm as excuses to do all this things like what Muslims doing. You must be lying again.

You must have your hands over your eyes and ears, then. Remember the "Sikh Holocaust"?

 

 

There's no Western Hindu or Eastern Hindu. IF a person is a Hindu, he or she will learn his/her own beliefs properly and follow it. NOT DAMN HIS BELIEF SO HE COULD KISS UP TO NON-HINDUS LIKE YOU.

By "Western Hindu", I mean a Hindu living in the West. Apparently, Hindus say that we all are equal, but how many actually put this into practice? Anyway, I don't kiss up to non-Hindus, I simply respect them.

 

 

 

 

That is why Muhammad was STUPID. He scold himself for WHAT? USELESS. How can such useless man be a prophet of God?

 

Muhammad doesn't know how to read and write. And despite of living for 60 yrs and with people who can read and write, Muhammad NEVER taken any steps to learn how to read and write. WHY?

 

Muhammad started off as a businessman and worked as a businessman for 15 yrs. His business was good enough that he could travel as far as Syria for his wife, Khatijah. By right, he should provide a good example for Muslims on how to progress in life. But at the end of his lifetime, he was poor and misearable. WHY?

 

Answer - because he was STUPID. He don't bother to learn new things or improve himself. Same way Muslims don't bother to live properly and end up living like animals. MUHAMMAD IS NOT PROPHET OF GOD.

Muhammad was a smart man. He single-handedly conquered Arabia and gathered a following that continues to this day. Whether or not you agree with him is another story, as is this whole discussion about Islam.

 

 

 

 

Hmph ... and just how many people die during primilage to holy spots in India like Varanasi? This shows that God is with those who come to see Him and He will protect those who come to see Him.

 

The very fact that muslims die in Haj shows that no God protects Muslims, for there is no God in Islam.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article102175.ece

Once again, your argument here is a joke.

 

 

 

 

God lives in our hearts, FOOL. Not in some city or because of some old men who calls himself Pope. That is Judaism, Laws set by Yahweh, the God of Israel.

That's what I've been saying since post #1!

 

 

 

 

I could very much doubt that.

I'm a Hindu because I want liberation, not because I want someone on Audarya Fellowship to smile and be happy.

[Sephiroth]

Arjuna Haridas :

 

 

I'm a Hindu because I want liberation,

 

Like I said before, I doubt that you are a Hindu. And since you're not, I have nothing further to discuss with a non-Hindu member.

 

Good day, Sir.

[hindu12]

 

Arjuna Haridas :

 

 

 

Like I said before, I doubt that you are a Hindu. And since you're not, I have nothing further to discuss with a non-Hindu member.

 

Good day, Sir.

 

typical response from a hindu extremist

[Sephiroth]

 

typical response from a hindu extremist

 

I will feel honored to be called an Extremist (for fighting for my rights) than to be called a Muslim's hand licker.

 

If a person who fight for rights are extremists, then Pandavas are extremists.

 

If a person asks others to stand up and fight for their rights are extremists as well, then Sri Krishna is an extremists as well.

[hindu12]

 

I will feel honored to be called an Extremist (for fighting for my rights) than to be called a Muslim's hand licker.

 

If a person who fight for rights are extremists, then Pandavas are extremists.

 

If a person asks others to stand up and fight for their rights are extremists as well, then Sri Krishna is an extremists as well.

 

well you're not really a hindu, i think you are a non hindu pretending to be a hindu