India this, India that

[Arjuna Haridas]

 

I will feel honored to be called an Extremist (for fighting for my rights) than to be called a Muslim's hand licker.

 

If a person who fight for rights are extremists, then Pandavas are extremists.

 

If a person asks others to stand up and fight for their rights are extremists as well, then Sri Krishna is an extremists as well.

The man who fights for his rights engages in a Dharmic War. The man who fights to subdue others' rights fights an Adharmic War.

 

Anyway, thank you Tantra for your responses to my posts and making it clear why India is considered holy.

[Sephiroth]

 

well you're not really a hindu, i think you are a non hindu pretending to be a hindu

 

I have never said I was a Hindu. My username comes from Jewish tradition and I have yet to speak against Hindusm in anyway. So, how is it that I could be pretending to do anything when I have never pretended?

[Sephiroth]

 

The man who fights for his rights engages in a Dharmic War. The man who fights to subdue others' rights fights an Adharmic War.

 

Anyway, thank you Tantra for your responses to my posts and making it clear why India is considered holy.

 

Hindus' rights is to live in peace and woship God by their own ways. That is their fundamental rights - all Hindus will agree to that.

 

Muslims' and Christians' rights consists of waging war against others who do not follow their ways.

 

In short, Muslims and Christians will not be happy till each and everyone on the Planet are either Muslims or Christians and as Godless as they are.

 

Therefore, I could promote that those who wish to safeguard their own rights to live in peace to do what Pandavas did - FIGHT BACK anyhow possible.

[Arjuna Haridas]

 

Hindus' rights is to live in peace and woship God by their own ways. That is their fundamental rights - all Hindus will agree to that.

 

Muslims' and Christians' rights consists of waging war against others who do not follow their ways.

 

In short, Muslims and Christians will not be happy till each and everyone on the Planet are either Muslims or Christians and as Godless as they are.

 

Therefore, I could promote that those who wish to safeguard their own rights to live in peace to do what Pandavas did - FIGHT BACK anyhow possible.

 

Read their scriptures. The Christians are to make peace with the Gentiles (non-Christians in New Testament terminology) and Muslims are to fight the kuffar (non-Muslims) when the kuffar fight them. So, should a Hindu be peaceful, then there will be no war waged against him and any war that may be waged against him is deemed sinful in both all 3 religions (Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism). The only form of oppression will come from the Muslims who will make the non-Abrahamic (in this case, the Hindu) pay a tax called the Jizya.

[Sephiroth]

 

Read their scriptures. The Christians are to make peace with the Gentiles (non-Christians in New Testament terminology) and Muslims are to fight the kuffar (non-Muslims) when the kuffar fight them. So, should a Hindu be peaceful, then there will be no war waged against him and any war that may be waged against him is deemed sinful in both all 3 religions (Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism). The only form of oppression will come from the Muslims who will make the non-Abrahamic (in this case, the Hindu) pay a tax called the Jizya.

 

Go read the history books.

 

Christians committed genocide when they wipe the Incas off the face of the map, and enslaved the African blacks and brought them to US. In Asia, they invaded and took over just about every nations on Asia - from India all the way to Japan.

 

Muslims have been waging war with non-Muslims since 1400s in name of Islam, have waged war with Jews and have invaded India, divided the land into three portions (Bangladesh, Pakistan and India) and continued to be troublesome to this day.

 

In short ... both Muslims and Christians (and Atheists) are the source of all the problems plaquing the World today.

 

And Islam is the ONLY religion in the World which forces Non-Muslims to PAY EXTORTION MONEY in name of Jizyah from non-Muslims so they can be allowed to live.

[Tantrayoga]

Actually, I would not agree with the statement that the islamic scriptures tell the muslims to fight the kafirs (non muslims) "WHEN THEY FIGHT THEM"!

This is not at all so in their scriptures and this has never been so in their religion's practice starting from its very origin. India had peaceful Hindus who were not fighting anyone when the muslim invaders came to kill and loot mercilessly.

The atrocities that were carried out by the muslims were the most gruesome anywhere. This is true history. The Hindus never went to arabia to fight them. They came to kill and loot and conquer. So it is not true that the muslims fight the non muslims (kafirs) "when" they fight them!

Unfortunately this is a sad and horrible truth that thousands of Hindus had to witness.

 

Sure the Christians are to make peace with the non Christians as mentioned in the new testament. But then the new testament was well tempered by King George of England. And the same Britishers carried out greedy and bloody assaults on many nations world over, looting, killing, grabbing peoples' native land and properties and enslaving them, thus they also brought the message of the Bible. They came to India and tried best to change the Vedic history and scriptures. The East India Company (established under Her Majesty the Queen of England) paid princely salaries to scholars like Max Muller and others to declare that the Vedas were brought into the otherwise backward India from the west by the Aryans some time before Jesus. They translated the Indian scriptures to reflect their ideology away from the Vedic truth. These flag bearers of the Bible and 'message of peace' had their main agenda of conquering other lands, enslaving their people grabbing their land and establishing their own rule on foreign territory, commanding other in their own house what to do. And once the world has agreed and learnt to say "Yes Sire!" and be ready at their beck and call, peace was made. This was the main message of peace that the gallantry English brought to the world.

 

Sure Jesus didn't tell them to wage wars. But the Islamic scriptures have clear cut instructions for war and severest punishments towards Kafirs (non believers of Islam). For a muslim, the world is divided into two parts - muslim and non-muslim. Non muslims should be eliminated. Muslims should rule. Its a simple nazi like philosophy. Only with a religious twist and much more dangerous. And needless to say, for a muslim, there ARE good things in his religion - fasting, daily prayers and brotherhood (BUT this is only with and for muslims). No place for brotherhood or sharing with non muslims!!

 

No such dictates are to be found in Hinduism. A lot of criticism can be hurled at Hindus for cast system, etc etc.. which is not understood in its true spirit. But how many Hindus carry out attacks on other nations grabbing their land and properties, killing the people? How many Hindus have bombed Iraq and Hiroshima and Vietnam? How many Hindu scriptures are telling them to kill the muslims and the christians? None!!

 

The sikh genocide was not a Hindu fault. If you do a search on Google and youtube for the word "Khalistan" and 'Bhindranwala' that was the reason and root cause of those riots that happened in 84 in India between Hindus and sikhs. Sikhism came out of Hinduism to protect Hindus. But at that time a terrorist sikh religious radical group started agitating the sikhs against Hindus and calling themselves as freedom fighters and demanding a separate nation. They went to villages and towns and killed many people who were simply Hindus in the Punjab state. Punjab has huge sikh population. And they have no problems of indifference. Sikhs are everywhere, in police, state administration, everywhere. This group said that the sikhs were minorities and didn't have enough rights. They wanted the whole government and system to become sikh like. And India is a multicultural, multi language, multiracial nation. How can everyone become sikhs? Imagine the blacks in the U.S. unite and tell all the whites to become black like or else give 10 states to the blacks and let them have a separate Afro-American nation!! This is what it was. Anyway, the terrorists took charge of the temple and put in heavy arms and ammunitions in it and started firing from it. They were requested to surrender, but fanatics are fanatics. Finally the government had to charge in and kill them. The Sikhs got agitated that the Indian government desecrated their holy temple (that had terrorists living in it with grenades and automatic guns). And the agitated sikhs started attacking HIndus anywhere they could. The Hindus retaliated. And that was the so called 'sikh genocide' that you mentioned. It was a Hindu genocide as well. Once the terrorists were out, the Golden Temple was returned to it previous glory and sanctity.

[hindu12]

 

I have never said I was a Hindu. My username comes from Jewish tradition and I have yet to speak against Hindusm in anyway. So, how is it that I could be pretending to do anything when I have never pretended?

 

really? well then its rather odd that you would make a statement like this to Arjuna Haridas:

 

 

 

Like I said before, I doubt that you are a Hindu. And since you're not, I have nothing further to discuss with a non-Hindu member.

 

its funny how you accuse others of nieng non hindu when you are not a hindu yourself

[Sephiroth]

hindu12 :

 

 

really? well then its rather odd that you would make a statement like this to Arjuna Haridas:

 

What does my background have anything to do with my statement toward Haridas? Irrelevant.

 

The Admin here most probably know that I'm a non-Hindu from my details, and the ppl here knows it by signature/Avatar. Therefore, I could say that I have never hide anything from either of them.

 

 

its funny how you accuse others of nieng non hindu when you are not a hindu yourself

 

Where did it say that a Hindu is the only one who can say whether another person is a non-Hindu or not? Don't be an idiot.

 

Arjuna Haridas is a non-Hindu because he behave like a non-Hindu, which has nothing to do with me being a non-Hindu or not. Like I said before, if he thinks India is not holy, FINE ... just tell him to apply the same nonsense with Muslims and their Mecca.

[Sephiroth]

Tantrayoga :

 

 

India had peaceful Hindus who were not fighting anyone when the muslim invaders came to kill and loot mercilessly.

 

And that is why today, Hindus live like 3rd class citizens in their own country, which runs by Muslims and Christians who doesn't mind allowing their own brethen run amok in India.

 

Gautama Buddha once said - Injustice (Adharma) occurs when righteous people does nothing (except to watch injustice occuring).

 

The Brahmins should have challenged the Muallahs/Imans and Christian Priests to religious debate. The Kyastrias should challenged the Muslims and Christians zealots to combat. The Sudra and Vaiyas should did what they could to support them. ALL OF THEM FAILED.

 

India have been divided by Hindus living in smaller states, not bothered by what happening on other states and think too highly of themselves (of being able to fight alone). British came, saw that Hindus are divided, learnt from Muslims on how to divide and conquer and follow this policy.

 

And today, we still see the effect of this British policy. Hindus are too divided to be made whole again. Hindusm taken apart and sects born from this, made the people even more divided. Caste System, which comes from British influence becomes the basis for Indians society.

 

In short, India have received independance ... Hindus have not.

[Arjuna Haridas]

 

The Brahmins should have challenged the Muallahs/Imans and Christian Priests to religious debate. The Kyastrias should challenged the Muslims and Christians zealots to combat. The Sudra and Vaiyas should did what they could to support them. ALL OF THEM FAILED.

The Brahmana were too busy oppressing the lower castes to care. The lower castes were too busy being oppressed to do anything. The Kshatriyas overall were too weak to do anything.

[Tantrayoga]

 

Tantrayoga :

 

And that is why today, Hindus live like 3rd class citizens in their own country, which runs by Muslims and Christians who doesn't mind allowing their own brethen run amok in India.

 

Gautama Buddha once said - Injustice (Adharma) occurs when righteous people does nothing (except to watch injustice occuring).

 

The Brahmins should have challenged the Muallahs/Imans and Christian Priests to religious debate. The Kyastrias should challenged the Muslims and Christians zealots to combat. The Sudra and Vaiyas should did what they could to support them. ALL OF THEM FAILED.

 

India have been divided by Hindus living in smaller states, not bothered by what happening on other states and think too highly of themselves (of being able to fight alone). British came, saw that Hindus are divided, learnt from Muslims on how to divide and conquer and follow this policy.

 

And today, we still see the effect of this British policy. Hindus are too divided to be made whole again. Hindusm taken apart and sects born from this, made the people even more divided. Caste System, which comes from British influence becomes the basis for Indians society.

 

In short, India have received independance ... Hindus have not.

 

Can't help but agree!!! This is sad, isn't it ..

And now when some people try to unite the Hindus.. they are immediately named as Hindu extremists!! Although many of the parties who are trumpeting the Hindu thing have political agendas as a political party trying to win the Hindu votes. But still its much better than those parties who are getting illegal uneducated muslim immigrants from across the border (from Bangladesh) into India, promising them free ration cards and getting their votes. Its still better to give job and education quotas to millions of muslim "minorities" everywhere for their votes!! Just because they are at times categorized as a minority in India, a country that has much exceeded its muslim population than Pakistan an islamic country. Where muslims have not only equal but extra rights over the Hindus!

Then there are the Christian minorities who also have equal rights and have certain quotas and benefits. And there are the Christian sects who are busy

demoting and putting down the Vedic culture and its values.

Have a look at this guy. He is an evangelist.

Of course this guy is mockery in himself and can entertain you for a while.

But there are many more people like him. And there are the ones who believe crap like this too.

In other words Hinduism and Hindus should be stronger and more united in India. It is a very flexible religious spiritual system based on eternal truthful time tested bona-fide values that suit to any belief system - impersonal or personal .. it has every branch of knowledge for spiritual growth that one may look for. Spiritual, material, social... everything.

[naazsakhi]

India is a holy country

[Sephiroth]

At one time, Hindus have covered most of Asia - from Afghanistan and all the way to Indo-China. Traces of Hindu culture could be found in Japan and China as well.

 

Matter a fact, many Japanese youngsters are told to learn more about Hindusm to get to know Buddhism better (at least, according to some websites I have been to). But today, Hindusm is shrinking even in India, and many of the ppl outside India doesn't know about Hindusm and its principals.

 

But what happened today? India is holy? I have read somewhere that at least 10,000 abortions occurs every year in India, and thousands of female children were killed in rural areas.

 

Caste System is a real headache and India Government doesn't seems to be bothered about it. Matter a fact, India IS the ONLY country in the World where any "caste" can start their own party. Unless you want to consider Neo-Nazi movement, which is illegal, by the way.

 

India is holy? In what way? Just because it is a birth place of great Sages, that alone does not make India holy. Take Gautama Buddha for example. He is considered Holy man by many cultures in Asia, and India happened to be his birth place. Yet Buddhism almost gone here.

 

Even in Hindusm, Mahabratha and Ramayana are called "Mythical stories" and Gita is called Philosphical book by Westerners, and even some Indians themselves. I bet many of Indians have not read any of this books. Some could say that they worship Lord Shiva therefore, they don't want to read other beliefs. Close-minded if you ask me.

 

Whether India is holy or not, it matters not. If Hindusm is to survive, Hindus better get you butt moving and start promoting your culture and beliefs.

[Tantrayoga]

hmmm.. agree mostly Sephiroth.

 

10,000 babies aborted every year and 1 baby born every 1 minute on this planet, and India happens to be the second most populated country too by the way. Hinduism will survive. It has survived through the barbaric islamic onslaught of a 1000 years straight, it has survived the 200 years of British raj. And it is surviving the modern westernization of India and its culture.

But Hindus sure need to get off their butt and promote good Hindu values and their culture and religion by practicing themselves first.

 

The current pro islamic and pro roman catholic congress government led by Sonia Maino of Italy gags up Hinduism in the name of pseudo secularism.

They are more interested in enriching the party and personal lives than deal with caste system or other problems. Further there are politicians like Mayawati who have blown up the very caste system out of proportions to fill up thier pockets beyond imagination of common man! The woman spent almost two million dollars on her birthday bash!! and she gives slogans protecting the poor and downtrodden from lower castes collecting huge funds in their name.

Problems are many. And if we start concentrating on them, then we loose focus. We need to promote Hinduism. And not concentrate on what's wrong. A lot of things have gone wrong. Nobody should expect India to be a pure land after reading the Ramayana or Bhagwatam stories!! Many Hare Krsnas come to India for the first time imagining stories from Bhagwatam etc.

There are many dilutions in the values and culture that have taken places through past many hundred years. BUT, the pure richness of spirituality can still be found!!! Its not everywhere. But IT IS there. Still. It has gone into hiding! From the illusions and commercialization and complications of modern day values. The simple, the pure is still there. We can seek and find it too. Its available. But it also needs to be propagated. So that more and more people come and can benefit.

 

If a small 500 years old sect can go the west and propagate its values, then thousands of years old Hinduism / Sanatana Dharma can surely do that!!!

 

 

At one time, Hindus have covered most of Asia - from Afghanistan and all the way to Indo-China. Traces of Hindu culture could be found in Japan and China as well.

 

Matter a fact, many Japanese youngsters are told to learn more about Hindusm to get to know Buddhism better (at least, according to some websites I have been to). But today, Hindusm is shrinking even in India, and many of the ppl outside India doesn't know about Hindusm and its principals.

 

But what happened today? India is holy? I have read somewhere that at least 10,000 abortions occurs every year in India, and thousands of female children were killed in rural areas.

 

Caste System is a real headache and India Government doesn't seems to be bothered about it. Matter a fact, India IS the ONLY country in the World where any "caste" can start their own party. Unless you want to consider Neo-Nazi movement, which is illegal, by the way.

 

India is holy? In what way? Just because it is a birth place of great Sages, that alone does not make India holy. Take Gautama Buddha for example. He is considered Holy man by many cultures in Asia, and India happened to be his birth place. Yet Buddhism almost gone here.

 

Even in Hindusm, Mahabratha and Ramayana are called "Mythical stories" and Gita is called Philosphical book by Westerners, and even some Indians themselves. I bet many of Indians have not read any of this books. Some could say that they worship Lord Shiva therefore, they don't want to read other beliefs. Close-minded if you ask me.

 

Whether India is holy or not, it matters not. If Hindusm is to survive, Hindus better get you butt moving and start promoting your culture and beliefs.

[celina12]

your post is very true. Hindus do need to be more active in promoting their faith, at home and international. There are hindu groups that are doing that, BAPS included, but ever hindu organization can help.

[Guest]

Sure they can. One should learn from your BAPs marekting techniques. You cannot even follow the word of Swaminarayan Bhagwan nor His teachings let alone promoting His faith.

[aisha-slave of Allah]

 

Hmmm ... Since when Muslims started to preach Islamic doctrines here?

 

India is Holy not because of the Ganges River or it's people. India is Holy because it is holy for Hindus who live and practise Hindusm there. Matter a fact, any place where Hindu live and practise Hindusm IS holy to such Hindu. If a Hindu practise his way of living and prayers in his own home, then his own home is Holy to God. If a Hindu has no home (a Sannyasi) and he still lives for God, then his own body and heart is Holy to God.

 

In Judaism, it is stated that a Human body is the Temple of God, for God resides in Heart of Man. I believe there something similar in Bhavagad Gita, forgot which verses it was.

 

As for Muslims ... DO NOT MAKE THEM AS MATRAYS IN HINDUSM AS WELL.

 

I don't believe that God required any Man to go and die for Him. I don't believe that God who created everything - from the largest of galaxies to the smallest of atoms needs parasites like Muslims to die defending Him. That is purely INSULT to God if anyone things such way.

 

Muslims does not die for God. They never had, they do not now, and they will never do in the future. ONLY reason why Muslims dying in useless manners today and for the past 1,400 years is because Muhammad had preached that they will get to heaven where they will enjoy 72 virgins. THIS IS THE ONLY REASONS.

 

I would like to stop you as you are making a fool of yourself here, get your facts straight and then comment.

 

I do not believe in killing innocent lives but the reason Muslims kill other people and become suicide bombers is because there brothers, sisters and mothers are being slaughtered and raped by fools in iraq, lebonan and Especially India and other countries. If your mother or sister was being raped everyday by strangers what would you do, wouldn't you want to kill the person who is raping them I know I would, but thats where the difference is wrong you class your blood as family where as we Muslims class all Muslims as brothers and sisters. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him did not only preach that when you go to heaven you will enjoy 72 hurs (vigins) Prophet Muhammad preached not to kill innocent people, not to harm innocent people, talk to people nicely, softly be kind and generous and give to the poor.

 

Please refrain from saying anything without getting your facts in order.

[aisha-slave of Allah]

 

Arjuna Haridas :

 

 

 

Buddhism which they follow is not the Buddhism which Gautama Buddha had preached. The Buddhism they follow is Mahayana Buddhism. Therefore, it is not considered to be following Sanatana Dharma.

 

 

 

So what? Many people feed dogs and cats the same way they have feed you and now, you're licking their hands. What makes you so special?

 

 

 

There's NO innocent Muslims in India. Muslims are ppl who comes from converts and invaders who settle in India after killing Hindus for the past 1,000 years. Pitying them is like pitying the pain a dog must have felt when it bite you and it's teeth hurt.

 

Muslims reverts are people who were lower caste in the hindu chain, like road sweepers and dustbin men, Hindus did not want anything to do with them thats why they converted to Islam because Islam says decpite your colour, creed, and caste in Islam we are all equal even if your the richest person in the land you are as equal as the poorest person on the land, Islam has no caste unlike Hinduism. Islam says give to the poor, Islam says want for your brother what you want for yourself, eg if I want a Huge house I would want my brothers and sisters to want the same why because we are all equal Islam does not protray hate, the word Islam means Peace.

 

 

[hindu12]

 

 

typical propaganda by muslim political groups in india who are using caste as a stool to gain momentum. first off, hinduism does preach fundamental equality. caste in hinduism is based on merit, the current caste system is not a religious issue more then it is a social issue that people use religion to justify.

 

 

muslim converts in india were not lower castes. some were, but many were people who were forced into islam. this is even backed up by credible historians. in fact, even the tribals in india resisted islam and against them invading india.

 

 

lastly, islam teaches equality? you have to be kidding me right? the fundamental basis of islam is inequality of human biengs and it is imbedded within the koran. even dalit activist br ambedkar said that when it comes to inequality - hinduism is a child compared to the social evils in islam and that islam is the biggest propaganda disguising itself under the mask of brotherhood and equality. islam does not teach equality, the only people who are considered equal in islam are people who accept it, which most of the time is by force.

 

ask the millions of people who are dying to leave islam and they are not allowed to.

 

ask the millions of slaves within islam who cannot escape it, their conditions (in sudan etc...) is considered the biggest humanitarian crisis the world knows, even worst then dalits, and we all know how bad dalits have it also.

 

islam recently outlawed slavery about 30 years ago even then forced slavery in islam is still strong as islam is in those countries.

 

non muslims are considered non human and infidels, they are second class citizens and their only reason for living in a muslim country is to either pay taxes and eventually succumb to islam. muhammad asks these people by killed and murdered by islamic law.

 

now thats what you call inequality.