Will Prabhupada said hold up in 21st Century?

[Guruvani]

We have seen this phenomena in ISKCON for the last 40 years.

It is the "Prabhupada said" approach to preaching Krishna consciousness.

 

In some ways some people have elevated Srila Prabhupada up and over all the previous acharyas, the shastra and the sadhus.

 

Srila Prabhupada has become an authority unto himself without the need of support in shastra or the sadhus.

 

If "Prabhupada said" then that is beyond and above anything in the shastra and anything ever written by the previous acharyas.

 

The question this topic wants to explore is if the "Prabhupada said" phenomena is going to hold up in the 21st century as the independent and absolute authority that neophyte ISKCON people have ascribed to it for the last 40 years?

 

Or, must the time come when everything "Prabhupada said" must be exactly verifiable with shastra before it can be accepted as anything more than preaching tactics aimed at the dull-headed hippies who were joining ISKCON back in the mid-sixties and into the seventies?

 

Is the age of "Prabhupada said" over as Gaudiya Vaishnavism spreads far and wide beyond ISKCON and the party-politics of a small sect of Hare Krishna people?

[AncientMariner]

 

We have seen this phenomena is ISKCON for the last 40 years.

It is the "Prabhupada said" approach to preaching Krishna consciousness.

 

In some ways some people have elevated Srila Prabhupada up and over all the previous acharyas, the shastra and the sadhus.

 

Srila Prabhupada has become an authority unto himself without the need of support in shastra or the sadhus.

 

If "Prabhupada said" then that is beyond and above anything in the shastra and anything ever written by the previous acharyas.

 

The questions this topic wants to explore is if the "Prabhupada said" phenomena is going to hold up in the 21st century as the independent and absolute authority that neophyte ISKCON people have ascribed to it for the last 40 years?

 

Or, must the time come when everything "Prabhupada said" must be exactly verifiable with shastra before it can be accepted as anything more than preaching tactics aimed at the dull-headed hippies who were joining ISKCON back in the mid-sixties and into the seventies?

 

Is the age of "Prabhupada said" over as Gaudiya Vaishnavism spreads far and wife beyond ISKCON and the party-politics of a small sect of Hare Krishna people?

 

Don't know and to be honest don't particularly care but I gotta admit I enjoy reading the things Prabhupada said.

[mahak]

There is a story from mahabharata that gives us clear understanding of this issue. Dronacarya was finished instructing his students in all martial arts. He gathered them together for the final test to determine which student would be given one extra benefit that the others could not have access to. The test was as follows.

 

Drona: "I have placed a bird in that tree over there. Each of you is to aim your arrow in such a way that the bird would be slain without any pain whatsoever."

 

His son, Aswattama, went first, carefully aiming his arrow and awaiting permission from Drona to shoot. Drona asked, "what do you see". Aswattama answered "I see the bird clearly". Drona asked, "describe the bird". Aswattama answered by giving full description of the bird, the branch and full description of surrounding areas. Drona said, "Place your aRROW BACK IN THE QUIVER."

 

Each student followed with similar results, Duryodhana, Dhusasana, Yudhisthira, Bhima, the Twins, the great club wielder Bhimasena, and each was told to place their arrows back in the quiver.

 

When Arjuna took aim, Drona changed the question a bit, asking "Please describe the bird." Arjuna said, "I cannot". Droina then asked him to describe the forest, the tree, the branch, the surrounding sky, etc. Arjuna could not describe anything at all, and finally Drona asked Arjuna, "what do you see." Arjuna responded, "I see a small orb, brownish in color, that occasionally has a cover come down upon it, I see nothing else."

 

Drona said, "release your arrow, and take this Brahma weapon".

 

The moral of this story is that Arjuna took the instructions of his spiritual master seriously, at the exclusion of all other instructions. Drona asked specifically to aim at a point where no pain would be felt, not to just hit the bird, therefore, Arjuna could not sacrifice the desire of his master for sake of his own idea of what was asked for.

 

Similarly, a disciple of Srila Prabhupada may hear from any and all, but if he takes the guru disciple relationship seriously, then there are no other instructions he will follow unless there is no deviation from that which he holds as dear.

 

There are very many people that cannot wait for all who had opportunity to hear from Srila Prabhupada directly to just hurry up and die. Such disciples prevent revisionism to run rampant, and are the only thing that keeps this krsna consciousness from turning into just another fool's religion.

 

Kinda like saul the christian killer from tarsus. Him and his physician buddy luke never associated with christ or his direct disciples, so they had free reign to make jesus turn to god to destroy bhakti yoga as taught by Lord Jesus. Had it not been for thomas and james and the queen of magdalia keeping the real teachings alive in other parts of the world, there would only be the eurocentric roman version by the assassin.

 

As far as dull-headed hippies go, never has there been a time in american history when folks saw clearly through the illusion of democracy fed down our throats. Its easy to disrespect hippies, because they were gone before the media made them popular. Do you know what hippie means? Most dont, Help In Providing a Peaceful Individual environment. Hippies and the samkirtana movement were made for each other. Greenwich village and the bowery was the place, because no one was interested on wall street. The haight was a spiritual atmosphere where Nob Hill was not. And the GM tried to spread Bhaktisiddhanta west, and had one asrama of coffee-table mystics in London, whereas Srila Prabhupada exploded and Krsna Consciousness became real with help of the likes of Lennon, Ginzburgh, et all.

 

"Prabhupada said" will hold up if he actually said it. The only thing wrong with the phenomena is that the phrase is used feloniously by cheats and liars. If it bothers you, call em on it, make em prove he said it. But one cannot decipher if he said it without being in tune with the teachings of Lord Vyasadeva, because Srila Prabhupada never deviates from such, this is why he is called Bhaktivedanta.

 

But, one who does not possess the TRUE cannot call anyone a liar, it is not possible.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

PS I called so many folks on their claims that Prabhupada said it that it was no longer fun watching them melt like the wicked withc of the west. The best is when I saw a filly I knew from my drug daze, and she was fondling the great naistika brahmacari who was the new guru. So, he appointed you, eh brah? Whatta melt job, but the next day, I was runnming away from his henchmen.

[theist]

 

Will "Prabhupada said" hold up in 21st Century?

 

The Prabhupada I read could hold up in any time and space past present or furture. I am interested in the eternal knowledge about God consciousness and that is never outdated.

 

Not saying that is my only interest unfortinately that would be far from the truth it is just that when I pick SB that is what I look for. I have learned how to let the insiginificant sub-subjects like the questionable cosmology or the date of writing the SB etc. etc. just sail on past me.

 

So in this way the story from the Mahabharata Mahaksadas related to us even applies to none disciples. A lot of saying give the same advice. From, "If thy eye be single thy whole body shall be light," to, "Keep your eye on the prize." Then there is my favorite, "Take the essence."

 

One has to wonder how such a question could be asked in the first place.

[Guruvani]

 

 

One has to wonder how such a question could be asked in the first place.

 

Was it really Srila Prabhupada's intention and ambition to be raised up and over all the predecessor acharyas and be regarded as an independent authority above shastra and sadhu?

 

I don't think so.

I don't think Srila Prabhupada would at all be pleased with the "Prabhupada said" cult that proposes to elevate Srila Prabhupada up and over all the shastra and the predecessor acharyas.

 

I think Srila Prabhupada would be very much against such a thing.

[suchandra]

 

Was it really Srila Prabhupada's intention and ambition to be raised up and over all the predecessor acharyas and be regarded as an independent authority above shastra and sadhu?

 

I don't think so.

I don't think Srila Prabhupada would at all be pleased with the "Prabhupada said" cult that proposes to elevate Srila Prabhupada up and over all the shastra and the predecessor acharyas.

 

I think Srila Prabhupada would be very much against such a thing.

A disciple surely pleases his spiritual master when surrendering his intelligence and not repeating things like a parrot. It seems to properly understand what Prabhupada taught and said we have to divide his movement and his books into two different categories, worldly and spiritual.

To properly manage a movement obviously requires earthly, mundane, secular or worldly ability.

The failure of ISKCON in so many parts of the world is often used to also minimize Prabhupada's teachings. The words of a pure devotee are surely interdigidated with his actions and for many things look presently like a severe case of false estimation to entrust people with responsibilities which were clearly out of their depths to master.

And then to hold those failed, unqualified disciples as liable for the damage, fallen from grace.

This surely casts a cloud over Prabhupada's books and "what he said", to install such a fragile system in the first place.

But Prabhupada mentioned this when pointing out, "ISKCON my fall apart, but my books will remain."

In other words, Prabhupada knew that the way his movement was set up it could collapse at any moment.

Now one might ask why a spiritual master cannot set up his movement so that it won't be committed to the insecure, dubious qualification of some conditioned souls, neophyte disciples? The failure or success of a whole yatra depending on one single person in autocratic status.

However, this is like it looks right now, how things will develop in the long run, we cannot say today. There could be also a happy ending.

"My guru said", looks like Lord Caitanya was also asked this question,

 

 

"My dear sir, My spiritual master considered Me a great fool," Lord Caitanya replied. "Therefore he has more or less punished Me by saying that because I am such a fool I have no capacity to study Vedanta. So in turn he gave Me the chanting of Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. My spiritual master told Me, 'Just go on chanting this Hare Krishna mantra: it will make You all-perfect.' "

 

Actually Lord Caitanya was neither foolish nor ignorant of the principles of Vedanta. His purpose was to demonstrate to modern society that fools who have no history of penance and austerity should not try to study Vedanta just for some recreational purpose. In His Sikshashtaka, Lord Caitanya said that one should be in a humble state of mind, should think himself lower than the grass on the street, should be more tolerant than a tree, and should be devoid of all sense of prestige and ready to offer all kinds of respects to others.

[theist]

 

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One has to wonder how such a question could be asked in the first place.

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Was it really Srila Prabhupada's intention and ambition to be raised up and over all the predecessor acharyas and be regarded as an independent authority above shastra and sadhu?

 

I don't think so.

I don't think Srila Prabhupada would at all be pleased with the "Prabhupada said" cult that proposes to elevate Srila Prabhupada up and over all the shastra and the predecessor acharyas.

 

I think Srila Prabhupada would be very much against such a thing.

 

 

So why did you quote me and then answer that quote with some statement that doesn't in anyway relate to my post?

[mahak]

This is Kali Yuga. So if someone calls someone on something, no concession is made. Only diversion of topic. Like yesterdasy, a writer says bhaktivinode NEVER EVER broke new ground with something not part of the previous acaryas dialog. But then, I posted where he did indeed cover a subject previously never discussed throughout the parampara (ie Lord Jesus and His Vaisnava status).

 

Never ever is emphatic with no wiggle room, so the NEVEREVER person tried to make a joke to divert attention from his utter defeat in the conversation.

 

As far as the bogus "Prabhupada said" that was very well covered by Srila Prabhupada while still in the appearance lila, one must always be ready to defeat false doctrine, despite whomever is being attributed with the doctrine. My ISKCON career was thwarted because I never fell for it, not one minute. Some jerk TP wants me to go out and cheat the public and tells me that "Prabhupada says by hook or by crook". I call him a ------- liar to his face despite the cane he carries and tell him if I go smoke ganja instead, Prabhupada is more pleased with me than with all his kali cela and their debauchery. Nothing different now or in the next ninety years.

 

One does not receive the teachings of prabhupada thru the lips of a dog. Prabhupada has taken residence in the heart of his devotees and is capable of making one KNOW if what is being said comes from him or from a mongrel.

 

What makes one ask such a question? Doubt. But doubt is an armor and should not be abandoned. One should be very careful. "Prabhupada says" has been with us for 41 years now, and he has been gone for 30, so one may take this as an expression of faithlessness and loss of confidence in ones spiritual master, OR, as I take it, a question we SHOULD ask ourselves every time one claims to represent Him. Permission to represent must be granted before representation can take place, we MUST determine whether such permission has been granted.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guruvani]

 

So why did you quote me and then answer that quote with some statement that doesn't in anyway relate to my post?

So, then is Srila Prabhupada accountable to shastra or is he above and beyond shastra and all the predecessor sadhus?

 

What did he teach about that?

 

I want to see in shastra where it says liberated devotees from Goloka CAN fall down.

[theist]

 

So, then is Srila Prabhupada accountable to shastra or is he above and beyond shastra and all the predecessor sadhus?

 

What did he teach about that?

 

I want to see in shastra where it says liberated devotees from Goloka CAN fall down.

 

Gawd man you are really stuck in some deep mental rut.

[Guruvani]

 

Gawd man you are really stuck in some deep mental rut.

 

Don't change the subject.

This topic is not about me.

This topic is about the fanatic neophyte cult of "Prabhupada said" who believe anything they hear even if it can't supported with shastra.

[suchandra]

 

Don't change the subject.

This topic is not about me.

This topic is about the fanatic neophyte cult of "Prabhupada said" who believe anything they hear even if it can't supported with shastra.

Thing is that you can't lump in all the, "Prabhupada said" quotes, but have to look at each individually. But since you already wrote, "I lump in all the Prabhupada said quoters", how to get a right conclusion?

[Guruvani]

 

Thing is that you can't lump in all the, "Prabhupada said" quotes, but have to look at each individually. But since you already wrote, "I lump in all the Prabhupada said quoters", how to get a right conclusion?

 

As long as what "Prabhupada said" can be verifed with shastra then it is fine.

If they build a new Gaudiya siddhanta off of what "Prabhupada said" that cannot be verified in shastra then that fairytale cannot be accepted as genuine Gaudiya siddhanta.

 

Srila Prabhupada obviously had some disciples that he didn't think capable of understanding the deeper aspects of siddhanta.

So, he offered them a remedial fairytale version to keep them going till they were capable of reading the books and understanding things more scientifically from shastra.

[Kulapavana]

 

We have seen this phenomena in ISKCON for the last 40 years.

It is the "Prabhupada said" approach to preaching Krishna consciousness.

 

In some ways some people have elevated Srila Prabhupada up and over all the previous acharyas, the shastra and the sadhus.

 

Srila Prabhupada has become an authority unto himself without the need of support in shastra or the sadhus.

 

If "Prabhupada said" then that is beyond and above anything in the shastra and anything ever written by the previous acharyas.

 

The question this topic wants to explore is if the "Prabhupada said" phenomena is going to hold up in the 21st century as the independent and absolute authority that neophyte ISKCON people have ascribed to it for the last 40 years?

 

Or, must the time come when everything "Prabhupada said" must be exactly verifiable with shastra before it can be accepted as anything more than preaching tactics aimed at the dull-headed hippies who were joining ISKCON back in the mid-sixties and into the seventies?

 

Is the age of "Prabhupada said" over as Gaudiya Vaishnavism spreads far and wide beyond ISKCON and the party-politics of a small sect of Hare Krishna people?

 

These are all very relevant questions and topics. Devotees often avoid such topics because the subject matter makes them nervous: How can one apply critical thinking and intellectual honesty when it comes to the legacy of a Vaishnava acharya, or one's guru?

 

1. Elevation of SP over previous acharyas - without a doubt an indisputable fact in our movement. In itself it would not be so bad if it was not connected with the notion that "whatever SP said is absolute and final" and does not have to be seen in the context of guru, sadhu, and shastra.

 

2. The acceptance of the above concept is limited to the orthodox Iskcon only. Many Iskcon devotees have other views and of course outside Iskcon that concept is completely rejected.

 

3. The spreading of Gaudiya Vaishnavism in the West is not limited to Iskcon, thus gradually this concept will lose ground. Also, as Prabhupada's direct disciples die out, this concept will likely die with them. The new generation of devotees is far less likely to see SP's legacy in this fashion.

[Kulapavana]

Too often devotees adopt this "all or nothing" approach when it comes to their guru's teachings: "It either all good, or it all needs to be rejected".As it usually happens in life, such "black and white only" concepts are grossly naive. The vast majority of SP's teachings are very firmly based on guru, sadhu, and shastra. Yet we clearly also have in this body of knowledge his personal opinions, personal preferences, and personal attempts of inspiring his disciples to take up Krsna consciousness that may not have a grounding in shastra. From proclaiming that the Moon is further away from us then the Sun, to proclaiming that living entities fell from Vikuntha planets, Srila Prabhupada goes out on a limb fairly often, preaching conclusions which run contrary to a lot of verifiable truths, be it scriptural or scientific. I dont see the need to reject the 99% of his teachings just because I disagree with the 1% of his presentation. It is not all or nothing. At least not for me.

[suchandra]

 

Too often devotees adopt this "all or nothing" approach when it comes to their guru's teachings: "It either all good, or it all needs to be rejected".As it usually happens in life, such "black and white only" concepts are grossly naive. The vast majority of SP's teachings are very firmly based on guru, sadhu, and shastra. Yet we clearly also have in this body of knowledge his personal opinions, personal preferences, and personal attempts of inspiring his disciples to take up Krsna consciousness that may not have a grounding in shastra. From proclaiming that the Moon is further away from us then the Sun, to proclaiming that living entities fell from Vikuntha planets, Srila Prabhupada goes out on a limb fairly often, preaching conclusions which run contrary to a lot of verifiable truths, be it scriptural or scientific. I dont see the need to reject the 99% of his teachings just because I disagree with the 1% of his presentation. It is not all or nothing. At least not for me.

 

But why care, things anyway change without we can stop it!

Prabhupada said that he wanted devotees to live in a spiritual society, he considered that if they live on their own, they couldnt follow the principles of sadhana bhakti. Now ISKCON made an investigation, 93% of the present disciples don't live within ISKCON temples anymore.

So, it is rather a myth that everyone does what "Prabhupada said".

[Kulapavana]

As to the question: Will "Prabhupada said" hold up in 21st Century? the short answer is: "Some will, some will not hold up". Eventually all of his teachings will have to be reconciled with the rest of the GV tradition and siddhanta. You cant forever pretend that the problem is always only with the reader, and never with the text itself.

[Kulapavana]

 

But why care, things anyway change without we can stop it!

Prabhupada said that he wanted devotees to live in a spiritual society, he considered that if they live on their own, they couldnt follow the principles of sadhana bhakti. Now ISKCON made an investigation, 93% of the present disciples don't live within ISKCON temples anymore.

So, it is rather a myth that everyone does what "Prabhupada said".

 

I never said that everyone does what Prabhupada said.

 

Things change because life has a way of performing a reality check on everyone and everything.

[cbrahma]

What Prabhupada said is to be distinguished from what somebody says Prabhupada said.

Having said that,if you are going to arbitrarily throw into question the intent and meaning of everything the spritual master has been proven to say, then you question his position as acarya. That is elephant offense.

[sevabhakta]

 

From proclaiming that the Moon is further away from us then the Sun

,

 

Do you have the exact quote?

 

In addition, not that it would ever trump sastra, but have you at least employed your own fallible senses in scientifically measuring the distances in question in order to speak with such authority, or did you read what some other person who cheats has flawed senses and makes mistakes wrote on the subject?

 

 

to proclaiming that living entities fell from Vikuntha planets,

 

 

Love to see that proclamation in quotes.

 

Is that all you got?

[Kulapavana]

 

...if you are going to arbitrarily throw into question the intent and meaning of everything the spritual master has been proven to say, then you question his position as acarya. That is elephant offense.

 

in order to properly understand the intent and meaning of the instruction you have to apply critical analysis to it. that is true for every teacher-disciple relationship, ESPECIALLY when you cant ask your teacher to clarify the instruction in an unambiguous way. That has nothing to do with having an offensive mentality, or minimizing the position of the teacher.

 

and in general, people are much, much more critical and demanding then an average disciple in a GV tradition. How do you think will people respond if you tell them they have to surrender to instructions from a source you cant question? They will simply call you a brainwashed cult member and walk away.

[Kulapavana]

 

,

 

Do you have the exact quote?

 

Here is a couple of quotes on the Moon issue. Go to the sleepervadi threads for quotes on the fall from Vaikuntha

 

Morning Walk, Perth, 05/18/1975

Prabhupada: Yes. They might have gone to some hellish planet, where there is only sand, only, and very hot, and the culprit is pushed through that deserted place to the Yamaraja. And before going to Yamaraja he has to suffer so much. There are places, copperlike, you see. (aside:) Hare Krishna. So hot, and the criminal has to go on that copper land. There are mentioned for many millions of miles simply copper, and one has to pass through that to Yamaraja. So, they might have gone to some such place, not to the moon planet, who is the source of vegetation even throughout the whole universe—and in his own planet there is no vegetation. Now I am sure they have not gone to moon planet. How they will go? It is beyond the sun. I was protesting that they have not gone; now I am convinced that they have not gone. The Russian scientists and the American scientists joined on the platform, "Don’t expose me, I don’t expose you." (laughter) (Bengali) "You have to do your business and same I have to do my business. Let us support one another." In all other case, they are inimical, and the scientific field they are friends. That means that if a scientist, another scientist, opposes me, then my attempt will be futile, so let us don’t do it.

 

Room Conversation with Reporter, Los Angeles, 06/04/1976

Prabhupada: Yes. From the.... That question I was discussing the other day. In the common sense, gross sense, that all over the world, they accept Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, in this way Saturday last. So why these arrangement? Sunday first and Monday second, and nobody could reply it. But as a layman I can conclude that Sun planet is first and the moon planet is next. So if you cannot go to the sun planet, which is ninety-three million miles away, how you can go to the moon planet within four days? Nobody could answer me. Can you answer?

(...)

Prabhupada: According to our sastra, the moon planet is above the sun planet, and the distance is 1,600,000 miles. So accepting that the sun is 93,000,000 miles away, then you add another 1,600,000, almost 2,000,000, it becomes 15,000,000 miles away. So if you go at the speed of 18,000 miles per hour, it takes more than 6 months. So how you go there in 4 days? And you advertise in the paper: "Now, they have reached." After 4 days.

 

Actually this last quote shows that SP clearly equates Sun and Moon's elevation with respect to Bhu-mandala plane of existence with linear distance from Earth. And that is the root of the apparent error, as the two are not the same.

 

 

[sevabhakta]

 

Here is a couple of quotes on the Moon issue. Go to the sleepervadi threads for quotes on the fall from Vaikuntha

 

Morning Walk, Perth, 05/18/1975

Prabhupada: Yes. They might have gone to some hellish planet, where there is only sand, only, and very hot, and the culprit is pushed through that deserted place to the Yamaraja. And before going to Yamaraja he has to suffer so much. There are places, copperlike, you see. (aside:) Hare Krishna. So hot, and the criminal has to go on that copper land. There are mentioned for many millions of miles simply copper, and one has to pass through that to Yamaraja. So, they might have gone to some such place, not to the moon planet, who is the source of vegetation even throughout the whole universe—and in his own planet there is no vegetation. Now I am sure they have not gone to moon planet. How they will go? It is beyond the sun. I was protesting that they have not gone; now I am convinced that they have not gone. The Russian scientists and the American scientists joined on the platform, "Don’t expose me, I don’t expose you." (laughter) (Bengali) "You have to do your business and same I have to do my business. Let us support one another." In all other case, they are inimical, and the scientific field they are friends. That means that if a scientist, another scientist, opposes me, then my attempt will be futile, so let us don’t do it.

 

Room Conversation with Reporter, Los Angeles, 06/04/1976

Prabhupada: Yes. From the.... That question I was discussing the other day. In the common sense, gross sense, that all over the world, they accept Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, in this way Saturday last. So why these arrangement? Sunday first and Monday second, and nobody could reply it. But as a layman I can conclude that Sun planet is first and the moon planet is next. So if you cannot go to the sun planet, which is ninety-three million miles away, how you can go to the moon planet within four days? Nobody could answer me. Can you answer?

(...)

Prabhupada: According to our sastra, the moon planet is above the sun planet, and the distance is 1,600,000 miles. So accepting that the sun is 93,000,000 miles away, then you add another 1,600,000, almost 2,000,000, it becomes 15,000,000 miles away. So if you go at the speed of 18,000 miles per hour, it takes more than 6 months. So how you go there in 4 days? And you advertise in the paper: "Now, they have reached." After 4 days.

 

Actually this last quote shows that SP clearly equates Sun and Moon's elevation with respect to Bhu-mandala plane of existence with linear distance from Earth. And that is the root of the apparent error, as the two are not the same.

 

 

 

 

So what you are saying is that the so called "proclamation" you mentioned from Srila Prabhupada regarding Vaikuntha falling is the snapshot conclusion your mind has come up with from reading the Sleepervadi threads, paraphrased, and then attributed to Srila Prabhupada verbatim, and when asked for the exact quote, you give me the above to contemplate. Sorry, I disagree with your assessment and your presentation even more, so you have not proved anything.

 

And as for the moon quote, this part right here is telling.

 

Prabhupada: According to our sastra, the moon planet is above the sun planet, and the distance is 1,600,000 miles. So accepting that the sun is 93,000,000 miles away, then you add another 1,600,000, almost 2,000,000, it becomes 15,000,000 miles away.

 

Telling of what?

 

Just yesterday I was thinking about how much we accept on blind faith when we receive quotes over the internet for which we may not have a complete vedabase to verify their veracity. And even that is subject for I have seen fatal flaws in Folio software in regards to search results, and also considering all the cheating and editing that has gone on....

 

so just look at that quote. Srila Prabhupada is figuring some simple math.

 

The equation should equal to 95,000,000 miles away. That is what should be issuing from Srila Prabhupada's lips. He added 93 plus 2 and would have said Ninety Five million.

 

Now even though it just looks like a typo, that 15 should have been 95, try imagining Srila Prabhupada speaking the word "Fifteen" after doing that math. Maybe "Eighty five" or "One hundred and five", but not fifteen.

 

That said, your point is?? Are you trying to say that you checked sastra and that was not the proper delineation, or are you still just believing the myths proposed by Illuminati controlled Karmi scientists?

 

Hari Bol

[cbrahma]

 

in order to properly understand the intent and meaning of the instruction you have to apply critical analysis to it. that is true for every teacher-disciple relationship, ESPECIALLY when you cant ask your teacher to clarify the instruction in an unambiguous way. That has nothing to do with having an offensive mentality, or minimizing the position of the teacher.

 

and in general, people are much, much more critical and demanding then an average disciple in a GV tradition. How do you think will people respond if you tell them they have to surrender to instructions from a source you cant question? They will simply call you a brainwashed cult member and walk away.

I doubt Prabhupada would like this 'analysis' of how to approach vani.

Prabhupada made many unambiguous statements about his vani being sufficient. His style is neither vague nor abstract and academic.

You are treating his instructions as some mundane text or literature that we can pick apart,edit and interpret at will. I find that quite offensive.

What is parampara for, if it is all to be subjected to our personal 'analysis'.

We should just go straight to the original texts of the Vedas and interpret them for ourselves.

[Kulapavana]

 

Prabhupada made many unambiguous statements about his vani being sufficient. His style is neither vague nor abstract and academic..

 

if his vani is so unambiguous and sufficient, how come his disciples are so divided when it comes to understanding all the issues we talk about on this forum?