The correct understanding of what time is.

[Vigraha]

Krishna says ‘time I am destroyer of the worlds’, Bhagavad-gita as it is 11:32. The correct understanding of what time is?

 

The space and time of the spiritual world are completely different from the space and time you and I are experiencing in this inert world. Material time is divided into past, present and future. But in the spiritual world there is only the one imperishable present time where Krishna’s unlimited pastimes are perpetually going on.

 

Every event in Goloka and Vaikuntha (the Personal Krishna conscious active part of the Spiritual World or Brahmajyoti is ever present. This is NOT the case in mahat-tattva and the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti that takes up 25% of the spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti.

 

When ever we speak or describe 'time' in the material world, it is always under the influence of material space and an impermanent reality that is under the constant influence of decay and the dualities suffering and enjoying. Krishna says ‘time I am destroyer of the worlds’, Bhagavad gita as it is 11:32, that is, the material worlds.

 

Also whenever we make statements such as, ‘the Jiva tattvas were created’, such concepts are not true because the jiva-tattvas were never created, in fact ALL jiva tattvas have always existed as their full bodily ‘svarupa’ potential and real self in Goloka but sometimes, due to free will and choice, ‘think, believe, dream and assume ’ they are not that eternal ‘svarupa’ body.

 

Such thoughts immediately place them ‘sub-consciously’ in the divided time of past, present and future within ethereal and biological material bodies or vessels that has a side effect of decay, impermanance and ‘self importance’ within its own separate reality called the mahat-tattva. In this way the Jivas, in their secondary nitya-baddha self became bound by Maya’s past, present and future.

 

The spiritual world of Goloka and Vaikuntha are perpetually manifest in the eternal present’, ‘there is no aspect of maya in the original NITYA-SIDDHA svarupa constitution of the Jiva

 

Material time therefore ONLY influences the nitya baddha secondary conscious characteristics of the marginal living entity that can only manifest 'covered' by the mahat-tattva or uncovered (dormant, no active time) as part of the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti.

 

For this reason, no statement concerning the NITYA-BADDHA is exempt from the jurisdiction of mundane material time and its bye product of impermanence and decay. In this way past present and future naturally are part and parcel of the lower secondary nitya-baddha consciousness but in the face of ones real genuine authentic nitya-siddha bodily, who one really is without beginning or end, the nitya-baddha consciousness is simply an illusion that has only a real but temporary existence.

 

Srila Prabhupada clearly has told us that actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha because they (their svarupa body) never leaves Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down.

 

Srila Prabhupada however further explains that in Vaikuntha reality, beyond mundane time and space that governs the mahat-tattva, we are not fallen (here Srila Prabhupada is referring to our perpetual svarupa body)

 

Srila Prabhupada explains we are not fallen because we only 'think' or imagine' ourselves as our non-Krishna Conscious dreaming nitya-baddha lower self that projects us out of Goloka and Krishna’s pastimes that performed in the 'eternal present' as the Brahma samhita tells us. So in actual fact we don't go anywhere, we simply imagine we do.

 

It must be clearly understood that ones svarupa body is NOT sleeping in Goloka, please understand that once and for all, it is only due to the absence of the time factor that there is no disappearance of ones 'svarupa' in Goloka, therefore it is always there serving Krishna regardless.

 

Eventually when one one’s 'dreaming imaginary self or nitya-baddha consciousness' is finally dissipated from the mahat-tattva, like a fog lifting and revealing the sun or one's true nitya-siddha identity, only then does one become aware of their full Krishna Conscious spiritual potential as their real self (nitya-siddha-svarupa body) serving Krishna. It is at that 'time' one has finally reestablished themselves as who they really are and always have been as their endless nitya-siddha-svarupa REAL ETERNAL body eternally.

 

When one reaches this realization, ones so called fall down will be as if it never happened. "Never happened" because there is no past tense as we know it in Goloka.

 

Srila Prabhupada – ‘This ordinary living being is of two kinds — nitya-baddha or nitya-mukta. One is eternally conditioned and the other eternally liberated. The eternally liberated living beings are in the Vaikuntha jagat, the spiritual world, and they never fall into the material world.’ SB 5.11.12 Purport

 

Then Srila Prabhupada explains how we are all perpetually NITYA-SIDDHA serving Krishna in the eternal 'present' beyond the past, present and future within the mahat-tattva where our illusionay NITYA-BADDHA CONSCIOUSNESS dreams its own imaginary existence.

 

Srila Prabhupada – “…We are eternally conditioned, (NITYA-BADDHA) but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968,

 

[Vigraha]

 

It is at that 'time', when one has finally re-established themselves as who they really are, (their endless nitya-siddha-svarupa body that is eternally their Krishna Conscious identity), THAT the dark troublesome cloud of past, present and future of the mahat-tattva is lifted and no longer exists just as darkness can no longer exist in the presents of light. When one reaches this realization, ones so called fall down will be as if it never happened. "Never happened" because there is no past tense AT ALL in Goloka.

 

[Beggar]

 

Also whenever we make statements such as, ‘the Jiva tattvas were created’, such concepts are not true because the jiva-tattvas were never created, in fact ALL jiva tattvas have always existed as their full bodily ‘svarupa’ potential and real self in Goloka but sometimes, due to free will and choice, ‘think, believe. dream and assume ’ they are not that eternal ‘svarupa’ body.

Like I've said several times (and you refuse to respond, Mate) when Srila Prabhupada would speak from the "philosphical" angle and say that we are not really fallen, he would actually be alluding to the nitya siddha krsna prema sadhya kabu naya verse in Madhya lila of Caitanya Caritamrta. BUT THIS IS NOT THE ONLY ANGLE OF VISION. Reality is like a globe, and there are infinite circles within the globe. Within this globe the center is everywhere. Here's another angle for you; Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur says that if Krsna wants He can destroy the very existence of the jiva soul! Srila Sridhar Maharaja says that this is something that we shudder to think of, but that for philosophical reasons we can consider the idea if just for a moment since a devotee does not like to think of this. Krsna is svarat, or completely independent, so He can do what ever He likes.

The next point that you refuse to address is about the limitations of expressing transcendental ideas into crude Germanic, and later bastardized English language. But we are also talking about expressing non-linear thoughts into any linear language. Whether you say that the soul is created as does Christianity, or that Krsna's energy expands, in essence it is the same thing.

 

In TLC, Chapt. 6 Srila Prabhupada writes, "In His vaibhava-prakāśa feature, the Lord manifests Himself as Balarāma. The Balarāma feature is as good as Kṛṣṇa Himself, the only difference being that the bodily hue of Kṛṣṇa is dark and that of Balarāma is fair." Upon reading this one can assume that they know the meaning of the world "manifest", but does everyone? You could assume that it means, "to show something that is already existing" but sometimes Srila Prabhupada uses the word, "expand" and "expansions" synonomously; but expand and manifest may not always have the exact same meaning. Look at this use of English:

This is the real process by which we can see God. God is not our order supplier. ... "Although I am one, I shall become many." This is the Vedic aphorism The Path of Yoga - Perception of the Supersoul, Chapt. 6. (Srila Prabhupada)

 

If God is one, how can He BECOME many? This would mean that all of Krsna's expansions both internal and seperated do not exist a one point, even if it is beyond time. Is that not a contradiction with the idea that all His expansions both internal and seperated are eternal? Of course all these conceptions are simultaneously one and different, acintya bheda [a]bheda tattva. But you never approach any concept in this way. So how are you really a follower of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and his representatives?

 

We have again shown how you are trying to put contradictory statements into Srila Prabhupada's mouth that you make no attempt to harmonize. This is one of the prime reasons that your logic and presentation are both completely bogus.

[gHari]

This isn't about time. Do you think we're morons? Why play us?

[Vigraha]

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Vigraha

Also whenever we make statements such as, ‘the Jiva tattvas were created’, such concepts are not true because the jiva-tattvas were never created, in fact ALL jiva tattvas have always existed as their full bodily ‘svarupa’ potential and real self in Goloka but sometimes, due to free will and choice, ‘think, believe. dream and assume ’ they are not that eternal ‘svarupa’ body.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Absolute undertanding from the Jagat Guru His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedabta Swami Srila Prabhupada

 

Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, “. Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977

 

Srila Prabhupada -“The living entity should become purified and regain his svarūpa, his original identity” Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48

 

Srila Prabhupada - “This is confirmed in all Vedic literature. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam. So, as we are also persons, individual living beings, we are persons, we have got our individuality, we are all individual, similarly the Supreme Truth, the Supreme Absolute, He is also, at the ultimate issue He is a person. But realization of the Personality of Godhead is realization of all the transcendental features like sat, cit, and ananda, in complete vigraha Gitopanisad Part Two

 

Srila Prabhupada – “…We are eternally conditioned, (NITYA-BADDHA) but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968.

 

Srila Prabhupada - “He has got already spiritual body. Material body is his covering. It is unnatural. Real body is spiritual. Just like your coat, this is unnatural"discussion with Svarupa Damodara (his wedsite)

 

"Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be".BG 2.12

 

"That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul".BG 2.17

 

"For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain. O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill? As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, the soul similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones.The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.. This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same.BG 20-24 :

 

By Jahnava Nitai Das Published 06/12/2005Audarya Fellowship

 

"When speaking of the spiritual realm, we must always remember that there is no limitation of time. Time practically does not exist in that realm. Only when you come down to the level of creation, at the mahat-tattva stage can we actually say that time is acting on anything. So any discussion of something constitutionally beyond the realm of mahat-tattva is by nature free from the influence of time.

Therefore there is no room to bring in the idea of a point of creation. Everything beyond the mahat-tattva is beyond time and therefore eternally existent. "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings." Why is that so? Because never was there any time to influence the realm of spirit. With that in mind, when we speak of something spiritual (such as the Vedas, the jivas, the very spiritual realm itself, vaikuntha, etc.) we can never bring in the concept of a point of creation. I.e. "it was created at this point in time". Why we can't make such a statement is that it puts its constitution within the purview of the mahat-tattva.

Therefore nothing spiritual was ever created in the general sense of the word. But still everything has a source, something on which it is dependent. Vishnu is the only sva-tantra (self- dependent principal) and all others are para-tantra (dependent on another). Everything has a cause, and that cause is directly the category of the Personality of Godhead. But this dependence is eternal dependence. Never was there a time when it did not exist. So, though Vishnu is the cause of everything, everything eternally existed beyond time.

One may ask, "How to understand this?" If you don't already understand it there is no mental gymnastics that will make you understand it. The Srimad Bhagavatam clearly states: om namo bhagavate vasudevaaya janmaadyasya yatah tene brahma hrda ya aadi kavaye. Why the statement "tene brahma hrda ya aadi kavaye" is linked directly to the statement of janmadyasya yatah? Because everything is an emanation of Vasudeva, including the eternal spiritual sound vibrations (brahma) of the Vedas. Furthermore, we should remember that the Vedas are describing Him, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Never was there a time when the Vedas did not exist, never was there a time when vaikuntha did not exist, never was there a time when the jivas did not exist, never was there a time when the spiritual realm did not exist.

 

Why? Because in the spiritual realm time never existed.

 

Regardless of that fact, the Vedas, the jivas, vaikuntha, and everything in existence is an emanation from the Lord. The spiritual energy is His energetic expansion. Yet one cannot have Isvara (the controller) without Shakti (the controlled energy). So, once again there is no question of when the expansion took place, it is an eternal reality"

 

 

 

[Beggar]

 

Srila Prabhupada -“The living entity should become purified and regain his svarūpa, his original identity” Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48

 

How can you regain something that you already have?

[Vigraha]

 

This isn't about time. Do you think we're morons? Why play us?

 

Unfortunately most people in the material world are morons.

 

When ever we speak or describe 'time' in the material world, it is always under the influence of material space and an impermanent reality that is under the constant influence of decay and the dualities suffering and enjoying. Krishna says ‘time I am destroyer of the worlds’, Bhagavad gita as it is 11:32, that is, the material worlds.

 

One thing is certain and that is you and I are not the 'biological bodies', 'minds' or 'subtle bodies we are presently occupy and are presently restricted by. It's not that you were originally nitya-siddha because the fact is right now you ARE nitya-siddha. READ THE QUOTE BELOW PRABHU

[Beggar]

 

It's not that you were originally nitya-siddha because the fact is right now you ARE nitya-siddha.

Then if we are nitya-siddha and Srila Rupa Goswami is nitya-siddha, what is our relationship to him?

[Beggar]

Anyway you don't attempt to answer these questions because you are, for whatever reason, unable or unwilling, to do so. This is essentially a discussion board, if you don't want to discuss but just cut and paste and propogandize your theory as fact then just go away already!

[mahak]

I agree. TIME to go, this discussion is elsewhere, and if we are interested, we would go there.

 

I came here to hear the Chambers Brothers. I wanted to know how souls can be psychadelicized.

 

Be true, no trick, mon, to fea jah me to fea no mon. downpressah.

[Vigraha]

 

How can you regain something that you already have?

 

Srila Prabhupada explains -

 

"One who wants to be free of material entanglement should take to the service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and give up the contamination of ignorance, involving pious and impious activities. Thus one regains his original identity, just as a block of gold or silver sheds all dirt and becomes purified when treated with fire" Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 8.24.48

 

Srila Prabhupada's purport - "The purpose of human life is to purify oneself of this contamination so that one can regain his spiritual form and not undergo this cycle of birth and death. The recommended process of decontamination is devotional service to the Lord ..The word varṇam refers to the luster of one's original identity. The original luster of gold or silver is brilliant. Similarly, the original luster of the living being, who is part of the sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [bs. 5.1], is the luster of ānanda, or pleasure. Ānandamayo bhyāsāt. Every living entity has the right to become ānandamaya, joyful, because he is part of the sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [bs. 5.1], RRSNA."

 

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 8.24.48

 

bhajeta — may revive; varṇam — his original identity

 

 

bhajeta — renders service; SB 1.3.38

bhajeta — must one worship; SB 2.1.39

bhajeta — one must worship; SB 2.2.6

bhajeta — must worship; SB 4.8.61

bhajeta — would embrace; SB 4.26.26

bhajeta — should worship; SB 5.19.8

bhajeta — should execute; SB 7.14.10

bhajeta — may revive; SB 8.24.48

bhajeta — worships; SB 11.11.29-32

bhajeta — he should worship; SB 11.20.27-28

bhajeta — a person worships; SB 11.25.11

 

 

varṇam — colors; BG 11.24

varṇam — classification of castes; SB 1.9.26

varṇam — his original identity; SB 8.24.48

varṇam — color; SB 10.3.20

varṇam — the color; SB 10.3.20

[mahak]

okay, okay, discuss your points, but not under false pretenses. This is till fall theory, this is why I dont usually read your posts, because you start something titled time, then you go discusdsing other things. Maybe you should have your own site, then pontification can take place.

[Vigraha]

 

Then if we are nitya-siddha and Srila Rupa Goswami is nitya-siddha, what is our relationship to him?

 

Presently we are so 'way down there' as one sanyasi once told me years ago, we presently have no idea what our nitya-siddha bodily identity is or even if we have one, in fact we are not even close as this thread reveals. Most of us cannot even understand we are not the material body we occupy

This is why many of us barely comprehend we are eternally nitya-siddha and find it a lot easier to foolishly believe we all originated from the impersonal Brahmajyoti, even many big, big sanyasi’s and guru's (even some in ISKCON) believe this nonsense that we have somehow fallen out of the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.

Most of us cannot even understand we are not these material bodies, what to speak of trying comprehend that we all are perpetually nitya-siddha, So many devotees even judge others by their material opulence, only seeing their bodily identity - lets face the facts, regardless of how clever we are at imitating Srila Prabhupada in the dress of a Sadu or even sanyasi, most of us are nowhere near spiritually advanced in this early pioneering stages of ISKCON.

The fact is we only 'think' 'imagine' or 'dream' we are THESE MATERIAL BODIES due to identifying with these bodies AS BEING WHO WE ARE.

The difference between us and Srila Rupa Goswami is he knows he is nitya-siddha (Krishna Conscious) and we don't know because of our selfish desires that cover our real identity as a cloud covers the sun or as darkness blocks out the sun.

In other words Srila Rupa Goswami is perpetually Krishna Conscious while we have simply chose to 'dream' (WE ARE DOGS, HOGS, CAMELS ASES AND HUMANS) we are not Krishna Conscious, its as simple as that.

[Kulapavana]

since everything we see in this material world is a reflection of the spiritual world, time is also present in the spiritual world.

 

one needs to first understand what is time here in this world: essentially it is Krsna's plan programmed into the mechanics of the world:

 

Krishna says ‘Time I am, the destroyer of the worlds’, Bhagavad-gita 11:32.

 

So Krsna is time and as such He is there in the spiritual world as well. The only difference is that the PLAN is different.

 

Things like "past, present and future" simply come from the perception of time - they are not separate from the concept of time, and the perception of time does not change just because we go to the spiritual world - we will still remember what happened in the earlier lila, it is not an endless Groundhog Day... if it is, I dont really care to go there. Not to be able to do SMARANAM of Krsna lila would be plain awful. All devotional activities (sravanam, kirtanam, vishnu smaranam)are ETERNAL. Thus there MUST be a sense of PAST in the spiritual world.

 

I dont expect the cut and paste monkeys to understand that - after all they are incapable of rational and independent thought, as proven time and time again in these discussions. I really write for all the other readers.

[Vigraha]

 

okay, okay, discuss your points, but not under false pretenses. This is till fall theory, this is why I dont usually read your posts, because you start something titled time, then you go discusdsing other things. Maybe you should have your own site, then pontification can take place.

 

 

What then is the difference between Vaikuntha time and mahat-tattva time? It's all connected.

 

I am not trying to mislead anyone, to the contrary prabhu, I am only trying to point out that Vaikuntha time means that ALL the marginal living entities ALREADY have a 'svarupa bodily forms' that is always there and never leaves that eternal Krishna Conscious devotional selfless place.

 

This is because of 'Vaikuntha time' (the peprtual present) In this way the marginal living entities who find their way back to Vaikuntha from the maha-tattva. will discover their 'svarupa' body is already there and has always been there. This is what the perpetual present means

[gHari]

 

Unfortunately most people in the material world are morons.

 

When ever we speak or describe 'time' in the material world, it is always under the influence of material space and an impermanent reality that is under the constant influence of decay and the dualities suffering and enjoying. Krishna says ‘time I am destroyer of the worlds’, Bhagavad gita as it is 11:32, that is, the material worlds.

 

One thing is certain and that is you and I are not the 'biological bodies', 'minds' or 'subtle bodies we are presently occupy and are presently restricted by. It's not that you were originally nitya-siddha because the fact is right now you ARE nitya-siddha. READ THE QUOTE BELOW PRABHU

So does that mean that you are really talking about time here and not just trying to talk about the origin of the soul again? To me it looks like just another origin thread, something our kind host of these forums has directly asked that you avoid.

[mahak]

Time has come today, and Im running out of it on my computer.

 

Time is a discussion where nitya siddha and nitya baddha doesnt necessitate discussion. This is the origin discussion.

 

Now time, there is a good discussion, but not where the beginner of the discussion has no intention to discuss time, rather continues another discussion that is still going. What 350 replies to the fall-theory is a bit unwieldy?

 

Tell ya what. Lets talk time, no fall theory allowed, Ill start it with a song about time.

[Vigraha]

 

since everything we see in this material world is a reflection of the spiritual world, time is also present in the spiritual world.

 

one needs to first understand what is time here in this world: essentially it is Krsna's plan programmed into the mechanics of the world:

 

Krishna says ‘Time I am, the destroyer of the worlds’, Bhagavad-gita 11:32.

 

So Krsna is time and as such He is there in the spiritual world as well. The only difference is that the PLAN is different.

 

Things like "past, present and future" simply come from the perception of time - they are not separate from the concept of time, and the perception of time does not change just because we go to the spiritual world - we will still remember what happened in the earlier lila, it is not an endless Groundhog Day... if it is, I dont really care to go there. Not to be able to do SMARANAM of Krsna lila would be plain awful. All devotional activities (sravanam, kirtanam, vishnu smaranam)are ETERNAL. Thus there MUST be a sense of PAST in the spiritual world.

 

I dont expect the cut and paste monkeys to understand that - after all they are incapable of rational and independent thought, as proven time and time again in these discussions. I really write for all the other readers.

 

"The space and time of the spiritual world are completely different from the space and time you are experiencing in this inert world. Material time is divided into past, present and future. But in the spiritual world there is only the one imperishable present time. Every event in the spiritual world is ever present" Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Jaiva Dharma, chapter 15

 

COMMENT - The space and time of the spiritual world are completely different from the space and time you and I are experiencing in this inert world. Material time is divided into past, present and future. But in the spiritual world there is only the one imperishable present time where Krishna’s unlimited pastimes are perpetually going on. Every event in Goloka and Vaikuntha (the Personal Krishna conscious active part of the Spiritual World or Brahmajyoti is ever present. This is NOT the case in mahat-tattva and the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti that takes up 25% of the spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti.

 

When ever we speak or describe 'time' in the material world, it is always under the influence of material space and an impermanent reality that is under the constant influence of decay and the dualities suffering and enjoying. Krishna says ‘time I am destroyer of the worlds’, Bhagavad gita as it is 11:32, that is, the material worlds. Also whenever we make statements such as, ‘the Jiva tattvas were created’, such concepts are not true because the jiva-tattvas were never created, in fact ALL jiva tattvas have always existed as their full bodily ‘svarupa’ potential and real self in Goloka but sometimes, due to free will and choice, ‘think, believe, dream and assume ’ they are not that eternal ‘svarupa’ body.

 

[Vigraha]

 

Time has come today, and Im running out of it on my computer.

 

Time is a discussion where nitya siddha and nitya baddha doesnt necessitate discussion. This is the origin discussion.

 

Now time, there is a good discussion, but not where the beginner of the discussion has no intention to discuss time, rather continues another discussion that is still going. What 350 replies to the fall-theory is a bit unwieldy?

 

Tell ya what. Lets talk time, no fall theory allowed, Ill start it with a song about time.

 

I apologise, it wasn't intentional, I can understand your point because of so much controversy and debating, but my posts and quotes from Srila Prabhupada is what explains the real meaning of genuin perpetual time to me. Who cares about material time, it's only an illusion that has some reality but always fades away and eventually appears as if it never was. Just like NewYork will one day seem that it never was (a million years from now) THIS IS WHAT ILLUSIONARY TIME MEANS

[Redsox]

woah, this is confusing. what is this about? Is this about time? if it is, what are you saying about Time?

 

Also, if this discussion is about time, isn't it true that time is only true in relation to our bodies, and not "us" , because we are eternally existent?

[Vigraha]

 

So does that mean that you are really talking about time here and not just trying to talk about the origin of the soul again? To me it looks like just another origin thread, something our kind host of these forums has directly asked that you avoid.

 

The topic is eternal time

 

Are we hear to 'enjoy our material existence' on this website or are we suppose to be trying to 'again'' become Krishna Conscious by preaching to others how all of us can revive our genuin svarupa bodily identity that is eternally founded and established within the wonderful blissful ecstatic realm of eternal time or the eternal present (Vaikuntha reality)? This is not a theory, this is a fact that our Srila Prabhupada has explained to us, and to me personally in 1972.

 

The topic is eternal time and that only exists in Goloka and Vaikuntha. If anything I have strickly kept to the topic of eternal time, explaining it is where we all perpetually exist serving Krishna in Goloka yet only presently 'imagine, think and dream' we are not there only to create our own ilusionary scale of tim from Brahma down to the ant.

[Vigraha]

 

woah, this is confusing. what is this about? Is this about time? if it is, what are you saying about Time?

 

Also, if this discussion is about time, isn't it true that time is only true in relation to our bodies, and not "us" , because we are eternally existent?

 

Exactly, And where do you eternally exist beyond time and space? Read carefully -

 

It is at that 'time without mundane temporary existence', that has to be re-established by reviving our original Krishna Consciousness, or whom we really are in the eternal present, (our endless nitya-siddha-svarupa body that is eternally our Krishna Conscious identity or real self). Presently it is the dark troublesome cloud of past, present and future carried by our material bodies that are part of the mahat-tattva (material creation) that has to be lifted or cleared from our consciousness like dust is cleared from a mirror that allows us to see who we really are. When this is achieved by dent of our Krishna Consciousness mundane time will no longer exists, just as darkness can no longer exist in the presents of light. When one reaches this realization, ones so called fall down will be as if it never happened. "Never happened" because there is no past tense AT ALL in Goloka.

[new---new]

theory is such a waste of time ...... better to chant .....

hare krishna.....

[Guruvani]

Time....

tick, tick, tick.....

Time....

tick, tick, tick...

Time................

it's time.............

time for Vigraha to end his dreamervadi rant on the internet and go on with his life doing something else that would be useful.

[Guruvani]

 

theory is such a waste of time ...... better to chant .....

 

 

at least in theory...........