Guru as a TRANSPARENT media

[Kulapavana]

Srila Prabhupada often said that guru must be a TRANSPARENT media. Like prescription glasses: you can see Krsna through the transparent media of your prescription glasses (guru).

 

Such prescription glasses are extremely valuable, but if we insist that we must primarily see the glasses, we are just plain mistaken. Or if the glasses are not transparent, such glasses need to be rejected and a better pair picked up as soon as possible.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Sunglasses are no good, then?

 

I prefer rosy-tinted glasses, myself.

[gHari]

trans·par·ent (trns-pârnt, -pr-) KEY

 

ADJECTIVE:

1. Capable of transmitting light so that objects or images can be seen as if there were no intervening material. See Synonyms at clear.
   
2. Permeable to electromagnetic radiation of specified frequencies, as to visible light or radio waves.
   
3. So fine in texture that it can be seen through; sheer. See Synonyms at airy.
   
4. 1. 
      
   2. Easily seen through or detected; obvious: transparent lies.
      
   3. Free from guile; candid or open: transparent sincerity.

   [*]Obsolete Shining through; luminous.

    

   ERGO, when we see him we see Krsna. When we hear him we hear Krsna. When he's here, Krsna's here.

[gHari]

From the Science of Self-Realization (Chapter 8):

 

Therefore, as far as possible, one has to execute the order of one's spiritual master. That will enable one to progress. That is the essence of the favorable execution of KRSNa consciousness. In my old age, I have come to America, and I am trying to teach KRSNa consciousness, because my spiritual master gave me an order that I must do it. It is my duty. I do not know whether I shall be a success or failure. It doesn't matter; my duty is completed if I can present before you whatever I have heard from my spiritual master. This is called the favorable execution of KRSNa consciousness. Those who are actually serious should take the order of KRSNa through the representative of KRSNa as their entire life and soul. One who sticks to this principle is sure to progress. Caitanya MahAprabhu spoke in that way, and

my spiritual master used to say, "The spiritual master is the transparent via medium." For example, I can see the letters of this book very nicely through these transparent eyeglasses, without which I cannot see because my eyes are defective. Similarly, our senses are all defective. We cannot see God with these eyes, we cannot hear Hare KRSNa with these ears, we cannot do anything without the via medium of the spiritual master. Just as a defective eye cannot see without the via medium of spectacles, so one cannot approach the Supreme Lord without the transparent via medium of the spiritual master. "Transparent" means that the via medium must be free of contamination. If it is transparent, one can see through it.

 

[Kulapavana]

 

ERGO, when we see him we see Krsna. When we hear him we hear Krsna. When he's here, Krsna's here.

 

not really, at least the way it is usually explained. we should be able to see Krsna through his actions and speach. when you see glasses, you see glasses. when you look THROUGH the glasses, you see what is on the other side. if the glasses are opaque, you still see glasses, and glasses only.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Interesting. So, to use the eyeglasses analogy, a medium may be transparent, but may distort the light passing through it to make it more accessible to the eye?

 

 

From the Science of Self-Realization (Chapter 8):

 

Therefore, as far as possible, one has to execute the order of one's spiritual master. That will enable one to progress. That is the essence of the favorable execution of KRSNa consciousness. In my old age, I have come to America, and I am trying to teach KRSNa consciousness, because my spiritual master gave me an order that I must do it. It is my duty. I do not know whether I shall be a success or failure. It doesn't matter; my duty is completed if I can present before you whatever I have heard from my spiritual master. This is called the favorable execution of KRSNa consciousness. Those who are actually serious should take the order of KRSNa through the representative of KRSNa as their entire life and soul. One who sticks to this principle is sure to progress. Caitanya MahAprabhu spoke in that way, and

my spiritual master used to say, "The spiritual master is the transparent via medium." For example, I can see the letters of this book very nicely through these transparent eyeglasses, without which I cannot see because my eyes are defective. Similarly, our senses are all defective. We cannot see God with these eyes, we cannot hear Hare KRSNa with these ears, we cannot do anything without the via medium of the spiritual master. Just as a defective eye cannot see without the via medium of spectacles, so one cannot approach the Supreme Lord without the transparent via medium of the spiritual master. "Transparent" means that the via medium must be free of contamination. If it is transparent, one can see through it.

 

[cbrahma]

I don't see too many transparent media gurus. So many are spinning their own versions of the siddhanta, with their favorite catch phrases and concepts.

Hridayananda speaks of psychological atheism as opposed to philosophical atheism. This is manufacturing, since there is nothing in Prabhupada's purports that is analogous to it. He has other jnani concepts that don't map to Prabhupada's teachings.

The guru needs to simply transmit what his guru transmitted like a succession of transparencies from Krsna. No concoctions , special treatise, white papers and all the trappings of jnani speculation that I have read so often.

[gHari]

SB 4.8.44p:

It is here recommended to Dhruva Mahäräja that he meditate on the supreme guru, or supreme spiritual master. The supreme spiritual master is Krsna, who is therefore known as caitya-guru. This refers to the Supersoul, who is sitting in everyone’s heart. He helps from within as stated in Bhagavad-gita, and He sends the spiritual master, who helps from without. The spiritual master is the external manifestation of the caitya-guru, or the spiritual master sitting in everyone’s heart.

[Kulapavana]

 

I don't see too many transparent media gurus. So many are spinning their own versions of the siddhanta, with their favorite catch phrases and concepts.

Hridayananda speaks of psychological atheism as opposed to philosophical atheism. This is manufacturing, since there is nothing in Prabhupada's purports that is analogous to it. He has other jnani concepts that don't map to Prabhupada's teachings.

The guru needs to simply transmit what his guru transmitted like a succession of transparencies from Krsna. No concoctions , special treatise, white papers and all the trappings of jnani speculation that I have read so often.

 

Bhaktivinoda, Bhaktisiddhanta, and Prabhupada each developed different ways of presenting the philosophy, with their own special concepts and even different ways of understanding the siddhanta. Do you find the concept of "BACK to Godhead" in our sampradaya prior to Srila Prabhupada for example? I doubt it. Yet I see great transparency in him, perhaps as much as can ever be expected.

[Kulapavana]

 

SB 4.8.44p:

The spiritual master is the external manifestation of the caitya-guru, or the spiritual master sitting in everyone’s heart.

 

Yes, that is the way I see it. Krsna teaches us from within and from without. Guru is the best external manifestation of Adi-Guru. An interactive media presentation of the Supersoul.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Grammar quibble...

 

"Media" is plural. "Medium" is singular. Ought to be "Guru as a transparent medium".

[Guruvani]

 

3 results for: via media

vi·a me·di·a /ˈvaɪə ˈmidiə, ˈmeɪ-, ˈviə; Lat. ˈwiɑ ˈmɛdiɑ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[vahy-uh mee-dee-uh, mey-, vee-uh; Lat. wee-ah me-dee-ah] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td valign="top">a middle way; a mean between two extremes. </td></tr></tbody></table>

<hr class="ety">[Origin: 1835–45; < L]

 

 

<!-- google_ad_section_end(name=def) --> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td><cite>Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.</cite></td></tr></tbody></table> <!-- end luna --> <!-- begin ahd4 --> <cite>American Heritage Dictionary</cite> - Cite This Source - <cite>Share This</cite> <!-- google_ad_section_start(name=def) --> <table><tbody><tr><td>via me·di·a (mē'dē-ə, měd'ē-ə, mā'dē-ə) Pronunciation Key

<!--BOF_HEAD--> n. <!--EOF_HEAD--> <!--BOF_DEF--> The middle course or way.

<!--EOF_DEF-->

<!--BOF_DEF-->

[Latin : <tt>via</tt>, way + <tt>media</tt>, feminine of <tt>medius</tt>, middle.]

<!--EOF_DEF-->

</td></tr></tbody></table> (Download Now or Buy the Book)<!-- google_ad_section_end(name=def) --> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td><cite>The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.</cite></td></tr></tbody></table> <!-- end ahd4 --> <!-- begin wn --> <cite>WordNet</cite> - Cite This Source - <cite>Share This</cite> <!-- google_ad_section_start(name=def) --> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2">via media</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2">

noun</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2">a middle way between two extremes [syn: compromise] </td></tr></tbody></table>

<!-- google_ad_section_end(name=def) --> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td><cite>WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.</cite></td></tr></tbody></table> <!-- end wn --> View results from: Dictionary | Thesaurus | Encyclopedia | All Reference | the Web

 

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

The middle course or way.

Does that definition make sense in this context?

 

It seems like definition number 3 of "medium" is what applies here.

 

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/medium.

 

 

me·di·um

 

<embed style="margin-bottom: 4px;" src="http://img.tfd.com/play.swf" flashvars="soundpath=http://img.tfd.com/hm/mp3/M0195100" menu="false" wmode="transparent" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" height="13" width="10"> (md-m)n. pl. me·di·a (-d-) or me·di·ums 1. Something, such as an intermediate course of action, that occupies a position or represents a condition midway between extremes.

2. An intervening substance through which something else is transmitted or carried on.

3. An agency by which something is accomplished, conveyed, or transferred: The train was the usual medium of transportation in those days.

4. pl. media Usage Problem a. A means of mass communication, such as newpapers, magazines, radio, or television.

b. media (used with a sing. or pl. verb) The group of journalists and others who constitute the communications industry and profession.

 

5. pl. media Computer Science An object or device, such as a disk, on which data is stored.

6. pl. mediums A person thought to have the power to communicate with the spirits of the dead or with agents of another world or dimension. Also called psychic.

7. pl. media a. A surrounding environment in which something functions and thrives.

b. The substance in which a specific organism lives and thrives.

c. A culture medium.

 

8. a. A specific kind of artistic technique or means of expression as determined by the materials used or the creative methods involved: the medium of lithography.

b. The materials used in a specific artistic technique: oils as a medium.

 

9. A solvent with which paint is thinned to the proper consistency.

10. Chemistry A filtering substance, such as filter paper.

11. A size of paper, usually 18 × 23 inches or 17 ¹/₂ × 22 inches.

 

adj. Occurring or being between two degrees, amounts, or quantities; intermediate: broil a medium steak. See Synonyms at average.

[Guruvani]

 

Does that definition make sense in this context?

 

It seems like definition number 3 of "medium" is what applies here.

 

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/medium.

All I know is that Srila Prabhupada used the terminology "transparent via media".

 

I don't remember ever hearing or reading him say "transparent medium".

He most always said "transparent via media".

 

I don't know if he is the origin of that usage or if his Gurudeva used it before him.

[cbrahma]

 

Bhaktivinoda, Bhaktisiddhanta, and Prabhupada each developed different ways of presenting the philosophy, with their own special concepts and even different ways of understanding the siddhanta. Do you find the concept of "BACK to Godhead" in our sampradaya prior to Srila Prabhupada for example? I doubt it. Yet I see great transparency in him, perhaps as much as can ever be expected.

I've read the grandfather acaryas and they don't multiply concepts and 'different ways of understanding'. That is the jnani marga. The path of ascent. They have their own style - not their own philosohpical version. They also emphasize different aspects of the siddhanta.

I was amazed how similar the content was between these acaryas, in spite of their different writing styles. And yes Bhaktivinode Thakur does mention going back home (though not in those words) in his Caitanya siksamrita.

[theist]

The thing that concerns me is the difference between the way an impersonalist hears the term transparent via medium to God and the way the Vaisnava hears the same phrase.

 

The impersonalist takes transparent to mean the person of guru has disappeared into the Brahman and so no more of his personality is in the way.

 

The Vaisnava, especially the followers of Mahaprabhu, see the real person of Guru has been awakened to his natural position as being both one and different from the Supreme Brahman.

 

He is not only still there with Krsna (and as Krsna) but he is there in his realized unchanging state. We accept the liberated Vaisnava Acarya as the Supreme Personality of Servitor Godhead.

 

So when we look at such a guru we see him and Krsna simultaneously. Transparent just means free from the darkness of ahankara. We have to be careful that in our mind we are not blanking guru out to get to God.

[Ashvatama]

 

Transparent just means free from the darkness of ahankara. We have to be careful that in our mind we are not blanking guru out to get to God.

 

I don't understand, are we not suppose to worship Guru as God?

[Kulapavana]

 

He is not only still there with Krsna (and as Krsna) but he is there in his realized unchanging state. We accept the liberated Vaisnava Acarya as the Supreme Personality of Servitor Godhead.

 

So when we look at such a guru we see him and Krsna simultaneously. Transparent just means free from the darkness of ahankara. We have to be careful that in our mind we are not blanking guru out to get to God.

 

I disagree that transparency just relates to the lack of ahankara. That is not what Prabhupada intended. He indicates that we can see Krsna thanks to our guru being a transparent window into the spiritual world.

 

If you dont see Krsna speaking and acting through a particular person you should not accept them as your guru. Plain and simple.

[Guruvani]

I think that in the way Srila Prabhupada said "transparent via media" it means more than just transparent but also "via media" which is like the go-between, intermediary between Krishna and the jivas.

Transparent via media......?

A via media that is transparent.

But, the guru is not just a window to the spiritual world.

He is also the intermediary between Krishna and the conditioned souls.

[theist]

 

I don't understand, are we not suppose to worship Guru as God?

 

Yes but the point is he must be factually situated in the liberated position which means free from ahankara (falsely identity) AND established in his natural position as Servitor Godhead.

 

It is not enough to be free from ahankara alone. That is seen in impersonalism as well. One must be liberated and fixed in relationship to Krsna then he is fit to be worshipped as God.

 

To accept a kanishta adhikari or even a second class person as guru and then worship him as God is not an intelligent thing to do. Prabhupada teaches one should accept a first class devotee as guru.

[theist]

 

The thing that concerns me is the difference between the way an impersonalist hears the term transparent via medium to God and the way the Vaisnava hears the same phrase.

 

The impersonalist takes transparent to mean the person of guru has disappeared into the Brahman and so no more of his personality is in the way.

 

The Vaisnava, especially the followers of Mahaprabhu, see the real person of Guru has been awakened to his natural position as being both one and different from the Supreme Brahman.

 

He is not only still there with Krsna (and as Krsna) but he is there in his realized unchanging state. We accept the liberated Vaisnava Acarya as the Supreme Personality of Servitor Godhead.

 

So when we look at such a guru we see him and Krsna simultaneously. Transparent just means free from the darkness of ahankara. We have to be careful that in our mind we are not blanking guru out to get to God.

 

 

Kulapavanna:

I disagree that transparency just relates to the lack of ahankara.

 

And where did I say in my post above that being liberated alone without being fixed in an eternal serving relationship to Krsna is all that is required?

 

It is baffling how you could squeeze that idea from the post you quoted.

[sevabhakta]

Srila Prabhupada on "worship", and what it means to worship as god.

 

KB 2.20

After taking his bath, King Yudhisthira dressed in a new silken cloth and wrapper and decorated himself with valuable jewelry. The King not only dressed himself and decorated himself, but he also gave clothing and ornaments to all the priests and to the others who had participated in the yajnas. In this way, they were all worshiped by King Yudhisthira. He constantly worshiped his friends, his family members, his relatives, his well-wishers and everyone present, and because he was a great devotee of Lord Narayana, or because he was a Vaisnava, he therefore knew how to treat everyone well.

Quest for Enlightment Ch 6, discussion.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. According to the Vedic injunction, it is essential to seek out a guru—a person who is a representative of God. Saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastraih. The representative of God is worshiped as God, but he never says, “I am God.” Although he is worshiped as God, he is the servant of God—God Himself is always the master.

SB 7.14.41

Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura says, saksad dharitvena samasta-sastraih: in all the scriptures the spiritual master, who is the best of the brahmanas, the best of the Vaisnavas, is considered to be as good as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This does not mean, however, that the Vaisnava thinks himself God, for this is blasphemous. Although a brahmana or Vaisnava is worshiped as being as good as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, such a devotee always remains a faithful servant of the Lord and never tries to enjoy the prestige that might accrue to him from being the Supreme Lord’s representative.

SB 1.3.40

Srimad-Bhagavatam is the literary incarnation of Lord Sri Krsna and is therefore nondifferent from Him. Srimad-Bhagavatam should be worshiped as respectfully as we worship the Lord. Thereby we can derive the ultimate blessings of the Lord through its careful and patient study. As God is all light, all bliss and all perfection, so also is Srimad-Bhagavatam. We can have all the transcendental light of the Supreme Brahman, Sri Krsna, from the recitation of Srimad-Bhagavatam, provided it is received through the medium of the transparent spiritual master.

SB 2.5.7

Following in the footsteps of Sri Narada Muni, one should not blindly accept his spiritual master as God Himself. A spiritual master is duly respected on a par with God, but a spiritual master claiming to be God Himself should at once be rejected.

SB 5.15.7

Since the king is the representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is sometimes called nara-deva, that is, the Lord as a human being. According to the Vedic injunctions, he is worshiped as God on the material platform.

Teachings of Lord Kapila, 16

This is the information given in Brahma-samhita, the prayers offered by Lord Brahma. This Brahma-samhita was accepted by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who copied it when He toured South India. Formerly there were no presses to print these literatures, and these important Vedic writings were written by hand. These literatures were not very cheap, and only highly qualified brahmanas were able to keep them. They were worshiped in the temple as the sastra Deity. It is not that they were available everywhere. Now, of course, the printing press has changed all this, but nonetheless we should always understand that the granthas, the scriptures, should be worshiped as God because they are the sound incarnation of God. One should not consider Bhagavad-gita or Srimad-Bhagavatam to be ordinary books, and one should take care of them just as carefully as one takes care of the Deity.

[tackleberry]

 

If you dont see Krsna speaking and acting through a particular person you should not accept them as your guru. Plain and simple.

 

I am not sure I understand this. Our perceptions are limited, aren't they? An ignorant person may not see Krishna speaking and acting through even an exalted devotee like Hanuman, but that doesn't disqualify Hanuman as a Guru. Hope you get my drift.

[Kulapavana]

 

Our perceptions are limited, aren't they? An ignorant person may not see Krishna speaking and acting through even an exalted devotee like Hanuman, but that doesn't disqualify Hanuman as a Guru. Hope you get my drift.

 

If you are just an ignorant person you are probably not ready to accept a guru, let alone make a wise choice in that area. Just like a guru should be qualified, a disciple should be qualified as well.

[cbrahma]

 

If you are just an ignorant person you are probably not ready to accept a guru, let alone make a wise choice in that area. Just like a guru should be qualified, a disciple should be qualified as well.

I know some ignorant people who have accepted gurus. Of course they fell down a while ago- and much lower than uninitiated ignorant persons.