Interview With Prof MA Tatachar

suchandra · November 24, 2007

Interesting points made by Prof MA Tatachar - biodata Prof MA Tatachar see below.

Excerpts of an interview with Prof Tatachar — Can an Acharya who is not physically present give diksha?

ISKCON devotee: Our point is that although Srila Prabhupada is not physically present, that does not in any way stop the validity of his continuing to be diksha guru?

Sri Tatachar : Definitely. That is my view.

ISKCON devotee: Can the physical absence limit the functioning of the acharya, in terms of Srila Prabhupada being able to impart knowledge and take karma of the disciples? Can Srila Prabhupada do this now?

Sri Tatachar: Just because somebody has a physical body, can he take your karma? Is he competent to do it? The presence or the absence of the physical body is not the criteria to take away the karma of a particular person. On the other hand, it depends on the devotion of the disciple and the grace of the acharya. Say for instance, Srila Prabhupada's guru was not there when Srila Prabhupada was present. Do you mean to say that they are not capable of taking the karma of their disciple?

The interesting thing is (quotes a verse in Sanskrit from Yatindra vimsati composed by Sri Manavala Mamuni of Sri Vaishnava sampradaya, who appeared nearly 200 years after Sri Ramanuja).

ISKCON devotee: So what is the import of this statement?

Sri Tatachar: That means though the guru is not physically present, he can take away all the karmas of the disciple. That is the potency of the acharya. In that way, it is not important whether the acharya is alive with a physical body or not. That is not important.

ISKCON devotee: One of their objections is that it stops the parampara.

Sri Tatachar : How does it stop the parampara? These ritviks will further appoint ritviks.

ISKCON devotee: There is a provision for that. Prabhupada says more can be added when necessary.

Sri Tatachar: More can be added, and these ritviks will initiate all of them into the Hare Krishna movement, and Srila Prabhupada will be their guru. What harm is there? Because the very word ritvik' has a special significance here. What do you mean by ritvik? A person who performs this particular duty. Suppose a king performs a sacrifice he is considered a yajaman. Even now wealthy people organise for us, Sudarshana homa. Probably in your place also. So that person is called a yajamana. When we came to your place Madhu Pandit Das was the yajamana. He didn't perform the sacrifice. He engaged all these people - Venkatesh and I came and many other people came and we performed the homa. After performing the homa we were given dakshina. So our relationship ends there itself. Because we had received the dakshina for the service we had rendered. But the end result goes to whom? To the yajamana only. Similarly, these ritviks get some dakshina from the persons whom they initiate. Once that is done their work is over. But the result that such and such a person is a disciple of such and such a guru goes to SP. That's why the word ritvik is used here. Otherwise he would have used a different word. And he would have stated that these are my sishyas, these sishyas are here afterwards considered to be the gurus to succeed me. "He is my successor," he didn't say that.

Does the rtvik system violate any Vedic principles of guru parampara?

ISKCON devotee: You have compared the arrangement in the Sri Sampradaya with that of the rtvik arrangement that Srila Prabhupada has directed us to follow. (He also supervised the running of this system from July to November, 1977). In rtvik system, there is an important difference. Here Srila Prabhupada is not giving any guruship to the rtviks.

Sri Tatachar: Yes, that is right, that is what we see from the letter also.

ISKCON devotee: In the event of the rtviks being representatives only and not being gurus, is there a violation of any shastric principle or is it violating any spiritual injunction?

Sri Tatachar: No, it is not violating. On the other hand, it supports what I have stated. In the case of Sri Ramanuja, I have stated that he appointed 74 simhasana-adhipatis and made them gurus. In spite of that we owe our allegiance to Sri Ramanuja only.

ISKCON devotee: You are saying that in spite of being some sort of guru, you are the disciple of Sri Ramanuja only?

Sri Tatachar: Yes, definitely. That is why we say that we are Sri Ramanuja dasan only. I have to say, adiyen madhura kavi Lakshmi Tatacharya Ramanuja dasan, when I prostrate before anyone. Sri Ramanuja dasa is the common thing found in all the Sri Vaishnavas, though we have been initiated by one of the simhasana-adhipatis appointed by Sri Ramanuja himself who were considered to be gurus. In spite of this we are expected to state that we are disciples of Sri Ramanuja only.

ISKCON devotee: In our case it is clear that Srila Prabhupada did not give any gurusghip.

Sri Tatachar: So it is all the more clear and imperative because Srila Prabhupada mentions very clearly in the letter that these are rtviks. That is why I have given the meaning of the rtviks - this word comes from the rig veda. The rtvik is a sacrificer who is appointed by the yajamana. Suppose you are the yajamana, you can appoint me as the rtvik and this rtvik performs the role of a priest on behalf of the yajamana. This may happen when the yajamana does not know the vedic rituals or even if he knows and if he is not in a position to perform this role, then he may appoint a rtvik. So he will perform the sacrifice and give dakshina to the rtviks. Who gets the result of the sacrifice? It obviously goes to the person who has engaged these rtviks and sent money for the sacrifice, the yajamana.

The word rtvik is very significant. That is why Srila Prabhupada was so clever to say that they are only rtviks and not acaryas. So the result goes to Srila Prabhupada only.

Again, will the parampara stop?

ISKCON devotee: In the Bhagavad Gita, Srila Prabhupada gives the guru parampara - Brahma, Narada, Vyasauand so on till Srila Prabhupada. In the rtvik system, who comes after Srila Prabhupada?

Sri Tatachar: Srila Prabhupada himself. Only the rtvik system continues, and Srila Prabhupada is the guru.

ISKCON devotee: When that happens, is the parampara not stopping?

Sri Tatachar: No. What can be done? Srila Prabhupada has not appointed an acharya. The parampara continues through a chain of rtviks.

Is authorization essential to become an acharya?

ISKCON devotee: One final question is that for somebody has to become an acharya, how important is it for him to receive an authorisation to take that post from the previous acharya? In this case, there is an authorisation to continue to as a ritvik and ritvik alone, there is not authoriation to function as guru. How important is it to receive an authorisation?

Sri Tatachar : It is very much necessary to receive an authorisation. Without an authorisation you cannot do. Generally what happens in the Srivaishnava parampara, they were always worried about the succession (Tamil sloka). Who will be the successor to take care of the propagation of this system? When the acharya was about to pass away, he would nominate a person to take care of the panth and hold the mantle thereafter. That is how it has been done. That is why even in the Srivaishnava parampara, while giving sannyasa, he cannot take sannyasa on his own. The acharya will give the sannyas and say that here afterwards he will be the mathadipathi.

ISKCON devotee: That means authorization is a must.

Sri Tatachar : IT IS A MUST.

ISKCON devotee:To become a guru or a mathadipathi or a peethadipathi...

Sri Tatachar : Yes, yes, yes. Otherwise I am very sure that SP would have used another word altogether instead of ritviks. These are my successors' - no problem. He never said successors'. Again and again he stresses these are my representatives only, they are only expected to initiate them, ultimately all of them are my disciples only, not the disciples of others'.

Part 3: Biodata of Prof MA Tatachar

Presently Director, Academy of Sanskrit Research, Melkote, Mandya district, Karnataka.

Educational qualification: MA (Sanskrit) University Gold medalist Navinanyaya vidvan (President of India's Gold medalist) Alankara vidvat madhyama Visastadvaita and other schools of philosophy

Work experience: Head of the Department of Sanskrit, Govt college, Chitradurga and Bangalore. Director, Academy of Sanskrit Research, Melkote, Mandya district, Karnataka. Teaching Visistadvaita, Sanskrit and Shastras at MA, Mphil and PhD levels.

cbrahma · November 26, 2007

I'm not sure about ritvik post-samadhi, but I am certain that what the GBC are doing is bogus.

It is a strange compromise between ritvik initiation and one-to-one diksa.

This distinction between

1. the ISKCON acarya and 2. one's personal guru,

1. treating the ISKCON acarya like one's own, distributing his books, guru-puja etc..

AND

2. Acting like the diksa disciple of one of a multitude of GBC approved gurus

becoming re-initiated as they fall down

has no precedent in Vaisnava history.

They want to have their ritvik cake and eat it too.

mahak · November 26, 2007

sunnis and paulists. and will always have the other side of their coin to deal with, shia and gnostics.

guru tattwa isnt decided by a professor with lots of plaques on the wall, all the sages at naimisaranya were content with the compromise of romaraharsana, but balarama makes such decisions.

theist · November 26, 2007

Want to get rid of your karma. That is just like the Christians who approach Jesus Christ to dump their sinful reactions onto him. This is not why one should approach guru. It is a by-product of following his instructions and associating with his sound vibration. By doing so the dirty heart will be cleansed from one side and by following his instructions one will not create more.

Don't go seeking the perfect initiation ceremony that promises to take your karma away. It doesn't really work like that.

suchandra · November 26, 2007

Want to get rid of your karma. That is just like the Christians who approach Jesus Christ to dump their sinful reactions onto him. This is not why one should approach guru. It is a by-product of following his instructions and associating with his sound vibration. By doing so the dirty heart will be cleansed from one side and by following his instructions one will not create more.

Don't go seeking the perfect initiation ceremony that promises to take your karma away. It doesn't really work like that.

Looks like Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu's very presence made people forget of all these vedic rituals like taking initiation. With the redness that heralds the rising of the sun, the jewel among the brahmanas, Lord Gaurasundar, immediately awakened, and taking his devotees with him, he journeyed through the towns and villages of Nadia. The mrdangas sounded with “tathai tathai” and the “janjera”, the large metal karatals in the kirtan played in time. Lord Gauranga’s golden form slightly trembled in ecstatic love of Godhead, and His footbells jingled. Lord Chaitanya called out to the townsfolk, “You spend your nights uselessly sleeping and your days decorating your bodies. Now just fill your mouths with the holy names, ‘Mukunda’, ‘Madhava’, ‘Yadava’, and ‘Hari’, chanting without offence. You have achieved this rare human body. Don’t you care for this gift? If you do not worship the darling of Mother Yashoda, then great sorrow awaits you at the time of death. With every rising and setting of the sun, a day passes, and is lost. Why then do you remain idle and not serve the Lord of the heart? You should understand this essential fact. Life is temporary and filled with various kinds of miseries. Therefore take shelter of the holy name and remain always engaged in His service as your eternal occupation.”

cbrahma · November 27, 2007

sunnis and paulists. and will always have the other side of their coin to deal with, shia and gnostics.

guru tattwa isnt decided by a professor with lots of plaques on the wall, all the sages at naimisaranya were content with the compromise of romaraharsana, but balarama makes such decisions.

Is it decided by a committee of self-styled authorities?