Paramatma-Vadis are Not Devotees?

[Beggar]

 

 

Santa rasa is perhaps mis-named as a rasa, because in the definition of rasa, there is a very clear indication that there is a RECIPROCAL PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP.

Yes, definitely; There are four "active" rasas and santa is not included. But there are myriad ways of looking at all these concepts.

[Guruvani]

 

whats you point, wasting all that space with your spam. Rasa means flavor..

 

First time I ever heard Srila Prabhupada books called spam.

I guess your endless comments without a single shastric reference are more important?

[Guruvani]

 

Rasa means flavor..

In the Vedabase search there in not one translation of "rasa" as "flavor" in the entire Bhaktivedanta vedabase.

 

So, just more of the same old manufacturing process you are so prone to.

[theist]

 

<hr style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by mahak

Santa rasa is perhaps mis-named as a rasa, because in the definition of rasa, there is a very clear indication that there is a RECIPROCAL PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP.

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<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Yes, definitely; There are four "active" rasas and santa is not included. But there are myriad ways of looking at all these concepts.

 

 

Yes and here is another angle. There is a redciprocation of relationship although it can be passive vs. active. Krsna is allowing the santa-bhakta to appreciate His beauty and other marvelous qualities, That is His offering to the bhakta. The santa bhakta is offering his appreciation of Krsna to Krsna by uabsorbing his consciousness in thoughts and realizations of Krsna and appreciating His splendour.

 

Passive reciprocation? I think so.

[suchandra]

 

In the Vedabase search there in not one translation of "rasa" as "flavor" in the entire Bhaktivedanta vedabase.

 

So, just more of the same old manufacturing process you are so prone to.

New discovery what causes the biggest buzz -

 

with permission from http://news.iskcon.com/men_happiest_pay_rises_if_others_get_less

Men Happiest with Pay Rises if Others Get Less

 

By Steve Connor for The Independent (UK) on 25 Nov 2007

 

Image: Kitsu

 

<!--paging_filter-->Gore Vidal once said that to succeed is not enough – others must also be seen to fail. Now scientists have demonstrated the innate truth behind this maxim.

A study of the brain's "reward centre" has shown that men get the biggest buzz from a monetary prize when they know that it is a bigger award than that received by someone else.

The findings indicate that it is not the increase in a person's pay packet that is important but whether or not that increase is bigger than those of other people. This could explain the tide of resentment towards the recent pay rises of GPs and hospital consultants.

Professor Armin Falk, an economist at Bonn University, said that the findings go against conventional theories about economic rewards, which suggest that it is the absolute increase in pay, rather than the relative one, that matters most.

"This result clearly contradicts traditional economic theory [which] assumes the only important factor is the absolute size of the reward," Professor Falk said.

The study, published in Science, involved 38 male volunteers who performed simple mental tasks inside parallel brain scanners. For correct answers, they were given a prize ranging from €30 to €120. Brain activity in a particular area was higher if a player received more money than his partner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guruvani]

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 19.183-184, purport

 

 

Śānta-rati is neither material nor spiritual

[Beggar]

 

Bhaktivedanta confusing?

Welcome to the club.

I guess that is what happens when you try preach to the lowest class of people and the highest class at that same time?

Confusion!

Both groups get confused.

I want to come back to this post for a minute. The other day I was doing a find on the nitya siddha krsna prema verse and the concept there that the jiva is always nitya-siddha even if covered from time immemorial. I came upon a lively discussion from several years ago on Gaudiya Discussions. Their discussion had many of the same elements as on Audarya, but the mood was not nearly as heavy although much more intellectual. Now thinking back to an earlier thread, Will "Prabhupada said" hold up in 21st Century? which was started by Guruvani, I'm thinking that what makes Audarya Spiritual Discussions so different than the (now closed) Gaudiya Discussions is that Gaudiya Discussions was not encumbered by the restriction demanding that every point be referenced back to "what Prabhupada said". At the same time most of the posters there had no affection or loyalty to Prabhupada. So perhaps the demand to reference everything back to Srila Prabhupada is a "labor of love". The problem is when it becomes a restriction or a demand, where always lurking in the background is the possible charge of being "disloyal to Prabhupada".

GBC ISKCON tells us that if we don't sign a loyalty oath to them, then we are disloyal to Prabhupada. The IRM says that the GBC is disloyal to Prabhupada. Some say that if don't follow Narayana Maharaja or Sridhar Maharaja (or his successor) that you are disloyal to Prabhupada. Consequently on this discussion forum we must frequently establish that we are loyal to Prabhupada. Since the best defense is a good offense, we often must counter to those who claim that we are disloyal to Prabhupada, that, it is they who are the traitors to the Jagat Guru.

For the most part I personally don't find Bhaktivedanta confusing. But that is because I immediately reference any apparent contradictions either back to the previous acaryas or to current acaryas in the Saraswat line who are not in ISKCON. Then this becomes the issue. And the "Prabhupada said" issue with its accusations and counter accusations comes to the forefront again. And we go round and round.

[theist]

 

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

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śamo man-niṣṭhatā buddher

iti śrī-bhagavad-vacaḥ

tan-niṣṭhā durghaṭā buddher

etāḿ śānta-ratiḿ vinā

 

SYNONYMS

śamaḥ — equality or neutrality; mat-niṣṭhatā — being fixed in My lotus feet; buddheḥ — of the intelligence; iti — thus; śrī-bhagavat-vacaḥ — words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead; tat-niṣṭhā — attachment or attraction for Him; durghaṭā — very difficult to achieve; buddheḥ — of intelligence; etām — thus; śānta-ratim — attachment on the platform of śānta-rasa; vinā — without.

 

 

TRANSLATION

"'These are the words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead: "When one's intelligence is fully attached to My lotus feet but one does not render practical service, one has attained the stage called śānta-rati, or śama." Without śānta-rati, attachment to Kṛṣṇa is very difficult to achieve.'

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YES! This is why I have often said santa platform is the only goal I can hope to develop any attraction for. The rest, the so-called devotional service, is really just sukriti accumulation as far as I am concerned. Valuable but not really devotional service.

 

How can we offer pure unmotivated service when we ourselves have unfullfilled desires tainting our every move?

Santa is the Island of peace where clear thiinking can take place and real attraction can develop. It is from this place that the other rasa's can unfold from within us according to our attraction.

 

It is my belief also that this understanding is the way to avoid becoming sahaji's running around imitating madhurya rasa and pretending to be manjari's etc, when they are not even liberated.

 

All glories to the sanctuary state of santa-rasa!

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

whats you point, wasting all that space with your spam. Rasa means flavor..

 

Well, yes, but, is "rasa" the same as "rAsa", and are those both the same as "rasA"?? Sanskrit scholars?

[sevabhakta]

The Paramatmarama Muni's are thus on the borderline tatastha region. The stage of being a Jiva who is gradually and increasingly influenced or directed by the Lord's internal potency in the form of some stage of Paramatma realization.

 

Between the impersonal and personal conceptions is a realm of transcendental sadhana via regulative principles.

 

My mental speculation is that Sri Paramatma will guide all such particularly evolved Jiva's to a confirmatory experience with his Bhakti Sastras and Bona fide acaryas.

 

All Glories to the Santa Bhaktas.

 

Hare Krsna

[mahak]

Haribol. The above is not from Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada NEVER made such a list, such a dry dictionary. This spam you posted is a compilation by someone else who thinks that such a dictionary is necessary, allowing some to skip all over srila prabhupadas writings in order to glean out an argumentative point. The list is valuable to a writer, as dictionaries, thesauri, grammer books, etc, as a tool on the desk.

You deny that rasa means flavor? Okay, so your dictionariesnt do you much good.

Flavor means taste, taste is something shared. Try this, use your dictionary to find a description of the taste or flavor of a strawberry. Pretty useless tool, eh? Mine is better, taste one, because no words will help.

This is rasa, something experianced. Now you say Im no good, that my words are valueless because I dont publish dictionaries or footnot to hell all my writings, but "Flavor" has no definition other than the experiance of such flavor. You have a bad scanner, not enough gigabytes, because flavor is adequately discussed in terms of the experience of rasa.

mahaksadasa

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Well-said. Srila Prabhupada does not exist in a vacuum. He never claimed that there would be no prophets after him.

 

Of course, I can't claim that I can conceive of all these things. They don't *confuse* me, per-se, but they *do* make fireworks go off in my mind.

 

For instance, reading that quote of sevabhakta's that "atmarama" can also mean "one who is satisfied by mental speculation" was certainly a "DOH!!!" moment.

 

 

I want to come back to this post for a minute. The other day I was doing a find on the nitya siddha krsna prema verse and the concept there that the jiva is always nitya-siddha even if covered from time immemorial. I came upon a lively discussion from several years ago on Gaudiya Discussions. Their discussion had many of the same elements as on Audarya, but the mood was not nearly as heavy although much more intellectual. Now thinking back to an earlier thread, Will "Prabhupada said" hold up in 21st Century? which was started by Guruvani, I'm thinking that what makes Audarya Spiritual Discussions so different than the (now closed) Gaudiya Discussions is that Gaudiya Discussions was not encumbered by the restriction demanding that every point be referenced back to "what Prabhupada said". At the same time most of the posters there had no affection or loyalty to Prabhupada. So perhaps the demand to reference everything back to Srila Prabhupada is a "labor of love". The problem is when it becomes a restriction or a demand, where always lurking in the background is the possible charge of being "disloyal to Prabhupada".

GBC ISKCON tells us that if we don't sign a loyalty oath to them, then we are disloyal to Prabhupada. The IRM says that the GBC is disloyal to Prabhupada. Some say that if don't follow Narayana Maharaja or Sridhar Maharaja (or his successor) that you are disloyal to Prabhupada. Consequently on this discussion forum we must frequently establish that we are loyal to Prabhupada. Since the best defense is a good offense, we often must counter to those who claim that we are disloyal to Prabhupada, that, it is they who are the traitors to the Jagat Guru.

For the most part I personally don't find Bhaktivedanta confusing. But that is because I immediately reference any apparent contradictions either back to the previous acaryas or to current acaryas in the Saraswat line who are not in ISKCON. Then this becomes the issue. And the "Prabhupada said" issue with its accusations and counter accusations comes to the forefront again. And we go round and round.

[Guruvani]

 

Well, yes, but, is "rasa" the same as "rAsa", and are those both the same as "rasA"?? Sanskrit scholars?

 

refer back to the vedabase search I posted above.

It has both rasa and rAsa in the results.

You can find and compare the different meanings.

[Guruvani]

 

Haribol. The above is not from Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada NEVER made such a list, such a dry dictionary. This spam you posted is a compilation by someone else who thinks that such a dictionary is necessary, allowing some to skip all over srila prabhupadas writings in order to glean out an argumentative point. The list is valuable to a writer, as dictionaries, thesauri, grammer books, etc, as a tool on the desk.

You deny that rasa means flavor? Okay, so your dictionariesnt do you much good.

Flavor means taste, taste is something shared. Try this, use your dictionary to find a description of the taste or flavor of a strawberry. Pretty useless tool, eh? Mine is better, taste one, because no words will help.

This is rasa, something experianced. Now you say Im no good, that my words are valueless because I dont publish dictionaries or footnot to hell all my writings, but "Flavor" has no definition other than the experiance of such flavor. You have a bad scanner, not enough gigabytes, because flavor is adequately discussed in terms of the experience of rasa.

mahaksadasa

 

I can't remember ever seeing one of your posts that actually contained authorized shastric statements.

It seems that if you can't cough it up from your mind that you have no use for it.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

For what it's worth, I've long thought of "rasa" as "flavor". I like the ice-cream (or Soy Dream) analogy.

 

Going back (was it this thread or another?) to mental flatulence, there are schools of thought which say that flatulence is caused by improper food combination (grains and beans, fruits and vegetables). Similarly, it stands to reason that, when we mix Krishna Consciousness with UFC or The Sopranos (or any of the things that I personally mix) in our minds, mental flatulence will arise.

 

 

Haribol. The above is not from Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada NEVER made such a list, such a dry dictionary. This spam you posted is a compilation by someone else who thinks that such a dictionary is necessary, allowing some to skip all over srila prabhupadas writings in order to glean out an argumentative point. The list is valuable to a writer, as dictionaries, thesauri, grammer books, etc, as a tool on the desk.

You deny that rasa means flavor? Okay, so your dictionariesnt do you much good.

Flavor means taste, taste is something shared. Try this, use your dictionary to find a description of the taste or flavor of a strawberry. Pretty useless tool, eh? Mine is better, taste one, because no words will help.

This is rasa, something experianced. Now you say Im no good, that my words are valueless because I dont publish dictionaries or footnot to hell all my writings, but "Flavor" has no definition other than the experiance of such flavor. You have a bad scanner, not enough gigabytes, because flavor is adequately discussed in terms of the experience of rasa.

mahaksadasa

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

"'These are the words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead: "When one's intelligence is fully attached to My lotus feet but one does not render practical service, one has attained the stage called śānta-rati, or śama." Without śānta-rati, attachment to Kṛṣṇa is very difficult to achieve.'

 

This seems to best answer my question.

[Guruvani]

rasa — mellow

[Guruvani]

rāsa — humors

[mahak]

NOD Ch 20

 

The word rasa, used in the Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu, is understood by different persons differently because the exact English equivalent is very difficult to find. But as we have seen our spiritual master translate this word rasa into "mellow," we shall follow in his footsteps and also translate the word in that way.

 

 

The particular loving mood or attitude relished in the exchange of love with the Supreme Personality of Godhead is called rasa, or mellow. The different types of rasa, when combined together, help one to taste the mellow of devotional service in the highest degree of transcendental ecstasy. Such a position, although entirely transcendental to our experience, will be explained in this section as far as possible, following in the footsteps of Srila Rupa Gosvami.

 

 

Without relishing some sort of mellow, or loving mood, in one's activities, no one can continue to perform such activities. Similarly, in the transcendental life of Krishna consciousness and devotional service there must be some mellow, or specific taste, from the service. Generally this mellow is experienced by chanting, hearing, worshiping in the temple and being engaged in the service of the Lord. So when a person feels transcendental bliss; that is called "relishing the mellow." To be more clear, we may understand that the various feelings of happiness derived from discharging devotional service may be termed the "mellows" of devotional service.

 

 

 

mahaksadasa: Okay, I used a more timely word for the same thing. But I will concede to my guru maharaja and use the word "mellow", which is following in his footsteps, because he concedes to the word used by his spiritual master, instead of my word "flavor". But my point is intact despite the semantics. More importantly, the above discussion of transcendental mellow is all that needs to be pointed out. (unless something else comes up:eek4:

 

 

 

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

rasa — mellow

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/mellow

 

 

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td width="20">4 </td><td colspan="3">mellow, mellowed

</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" width="42"> </td><td width="33">

</td><td>having a full and pleasing flavor through proper aging; "a mellow port"; "mellowed fruit"</td></tr></tbody></table>

I think you owe Mahak an apology.

[mahak]

no apology for that, but I do use quotes sometime. Sometimes I paraphrase, but its up to you to see if Prabhupada comes thru me, or if it is just me.

 

I hate quote machines, but this doesnt mean I think quotes are bogus. Used properly (and sparingly), they are quite valid and very nectarian, as seva bhakta did above.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guruvani]

 

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/mellow

 

 

I think you owe Mahak an apology.

 

If you can show me that anywhere in the books of Srila Prabhupada it has been translated as "flavor" then ok.

[mahak]

it is of no consequence, I already conceded the point.

 

The word rasa, used in the Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu, is understood by different persons differently because the exact English equivalent is very difficult to find.

[mahak]

but I do use quotes, but you dont read em.

[theist]

C'mon gentlemen, not every word contains a transliteration that employs every possible equivilant meaning.

 

"

When we eat something, we taste its rasa, the juice. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [bg. 7.8]. Just like Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gita, "Kaunteya, My dear Arjuna, I am the taste of the water." Everyone, when he's thirsty, he wants, "Give me water, give me water." Because there is a taste in the water which will immediately quench your thirst. So we enjoy everything because there is some taste. That is called rasa. Anything we do. Just like a man, he's working very hard day and night. What for? For maintaining his family, his children and wife. So unless there is some rasa, some taste, he cannot work so hard day and night. There is some flavor in maintaining the family with hard labor. And sometimes we see therefore one who has no family, one who has no family affection, he does not work so hard. He doesn't care to work. This is practical. Therefore in the Vedic civilization the family life is recommended unless one will become confused, hopeless, because he has no taste for the family life. So everything there is some rasa, taste. Without that taste, nobody can live.Lecture 1.1.3