This is really annoying deleting posts in closed thread

CCC · November 25, 2007

Today I was looking for a few post of mine and were deleted

"I would like to translate it in spanish, and now are vanished (A long list of quotes of Srila Prabhupada"

this is very sad and annoying really I am very disgusted and I will left this forum because if I post something and then is deleted is useless only a waste of time for me that I have to make and effort to write in english

Hare Krsna

mahak · November 25, 2007

This is why they have free websites, this is where your stuff should be filed. Audarya is faultless in this misfortune.

Guruvani · November 25, 2007

Sounds like a personal gripe that should be taken up with Admin.

A spiritual topic?

DUH??

gHari · November 26, 2007

When the administrator deletes a post he usually leaves a note about it there. Are you sure the post was there or it is not somewhere else still? I can't see you writing anything worthy of deletion, CCC.

CCC · November 27, 2007

When the administrator deletes a post he usually leaves a note about it there. Are you sure the post was there or it is not somewhere else still? I can't see you writing anything worthy of deletion, CCC.

these post were deleted

Letter to: Jagadisa : 70-04-25 Los Angeles AS IT IS

Hare Krsna, the letter is divided in two parts with two question:

First Question:

"Letter to: Jagadisa : 70-04-25 Los Angeles

Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at any time, so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of one's independence. But those who are firmly fixed up in devotional service to Krsna are making proper use of their independence and so they do not fall down."

No comment and has no interpretation is very clear Srila Prabhupada. You accept the words of the self effulgent acharya or not, easy.

"Letter to: Jagadisa : 70-04-25 Los Angeles

Regarding your second question, have the conditioned souls ever seen Krsna? Were they with the Lord before being conditioned by the desire to lord it over material nature? Yes, the conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus they were with Krsna before being conditioned. Just as the child must have seen his father because the father places the child in the womb of the mother, similarly each soul has seen Krsna or the Supreme Father. But at that time the conditioned souls are resting in the condition called susupti which is exactly deep sleep without dream, or anesthetized state, therefore they do not remember being with Krsna when they wake up in the material world and become engaged in material affairs. I hope this will satisfy your questions."

Pay very attention to the question Jagadisa is asking if the conditioned soul has ever seen Krsna, the conditioned soul!! not the liberated soul!!! (is obvious that the liberated soul has seen and see Krsna). So Srila Prabhupada replied Him yes. Just before the conditioned soul get conditioned we have seen Krsna in his Mahavishnu form and He injected us in the mahat tattva as a father inject the soul in the womb of the mother also this mean that the conditioned soul has the chance to see Mahavishnu when He enter Him after the aniquilation of the universe and enter in the susupti state.

so when we are in our original liberated state we can see Lord Krsna face to face and we are in his lilas (First question above), and when we are conditioned we can see Lord Krsna as Mahavishnu (NOT in Krsnaloka or vaikhunta) before entering and after leaving the destroyed universes in his maha vishnu form otherwise we can't see lord Krsna (In Goloka or Vaikhunta) in the conditioned state only if He descends but this is not the line of the question.

CCC · November 27, 2007

the second post was like this (I was looking for it for translating) with quotes of Srila Prabhupada and the others acaryas about the fall donw of the soul. I would like that the moderator say something about why were deleted both posts

760805BG.PAR Lectures:

Translator: "The question is: did we fall in this material world to find

some highest pleasure? His question is: did we fall in the material world

to experience something which is higher?

Prabhupada: I do not follow.

Yogesvara: I think his question is the husband will leave the wife because

he is dissatisfied. But if our love for Krsna originally is perfect why

should we have left?

Prabhupada: YOU HAVE LEFT... JUST LIKE SOMEBODY IS DAILY EATING PURIS AND

HALAVA, AND HE WANTS TO EAT PUFFED RICE. SO THAT TENDENCY IS THERE. THAT IS

ALSO A SIDE OF ENJOYMENT. "I am eating daily this, let me eat this." What

is the difficulty? That tendency is there. That is also enjoyment. After

all, we are hankering after enjoyment, anandamayo 'bhyasat. So different

taste we desire, that "Let me taste this, let me taste that, let me taste

that." So the real basic principle is enjoyment, sense enjoyment. That's

all."

from Bhagavad Gita Introduction:

"The Lord says, na tad bhasayate suryo na sasanko na pavakah. yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama. One who can approach that spiritual sky is not required to descend again to the material sky. In the material sky, even if we approach the highest planet (Brahmaloka), what to speak of the moon, we will find the same conditions of life, namely birth, death, disease and old age. No planet in the material universe is free from these four principles of material existence. Therefore the Lord says in Bhagavad-gita, abrahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino 'rjuna. The living entities are traveling from one planet to another, not by a mechanical arrangement but by a spiritual process."

"One should desire and hanker after that supreme kingdom, for when one attains that kingdom, he does not have to return to this material world."

"These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming

from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds, they are

taking various grades of bodies". - Letter, July 9,

1970.

"... if he is properly guided, then he is very easily

sent back to home, back to Godhead wherefrom

originally he fell down." - Letter, January 20, 1971

"... we have also come down from Vaikuntha some

millions and millions of years ago. Anadi

karama-phale. Anadi means before the creation... The

real desire is how to go to home, back to Godhead." -

Lecture on Bhagavad-gita, London, August 6, 1973

"... we may fall down from Vaikuntha at any moment...

so even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that 'Why shall

I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?' I immediately

fall down." - Lecture in Honolulu, July 4, 1974

"He is fallen already from Vaikuntha planet. He is

fallen in this material world, and he is again trying

to make progress." - Bhagavatam lecture in Los

Angeles, June 15, 1972.

"As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are

covered by Maya. Formerly, we were with Krsna in His

lila or sport, but this covering of Maya may be of

very, very, very, very long duration. . .

"... Unless one develops full devotional service to

Krsna, he goes up only to brahma-sayujya but falls

down. After millions and millions of years of keeping

oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes

to Krsna consciousness, this period becomes

insignificant, just like dreaming. Because he falls

down from brahma-sayujya, he thinks that may be his

origin, but he does not remember that before that even

he was with Krsna". - Australian conversation

transcribed in BBT Report Nectar of the Month,

January, 1982.

DISCIPLE: If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we

here?

PRABHUPADA: Yes. You forced Krsna to allow you to

come... This is the position. You have to take

sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God

sanctions. And you come and enjoy. - Bhagavad-gita

lecture in Melbourne, June 27, 1974

"Existence in the impersonal brahma is also within the

category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in

the brahman effulgence, they are also in the fallen

condition. So there is no question of falling down

from a fallen condition". - Letter, June 13, 1970.

"When the pure soul wants to give up the Lord's

service to enjoy the material world, Krsna certainly

gives him a chance to enter the material world". -

Introduction to Srimad Bhagavatam (5.14)

"He should be restored to his pure identity, in which

he engages his senses in the service of the proprietor

of the senses." - Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam,

4.24.61.

"Therefore, the whole process of God consciousness is

meant to rectify the conditional activities of the

senses and to re-engage them in the direct service of

the Lord". -Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam, 2.9.39.

Acyutananda: So what made the soul take birth in the

first place?

Prabhupada: In the first place?

Acyutananda: What is the first birth? What is the

cause of the first birth.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is stated in the Prema-vivarta:

krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare/nikata-stha

maya tare japatiya dhare.

As soon as... We are eternal servant of Krsna. As soon

as we want to become master, that is the beginning of

our first birth in the material world. We have got

independence. Because, Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva

bhutah—we are part and parcel of Krsna—so Krsna has

got full independence, but we are minute; therefore we

have got minute independence. Our business is to serve

Krsna, but as soon as we give up this idea, we want to

become master. That is the beginning of our material

birth. (Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.5.2--Hyderabad,

April 11, 1975)

However, because of contact with matter, the

imprisoned soul loses the memory of his original

spiritual form in Vaikuntha... material rasas are

perverted reflections of the soul's original spiritual

rasas. - Srila Bhaktivinoda Takura, Prema-pradipa, p.

83

It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports.

They become attached to matter, having deviated from

their own essential nature as the result of their

desire for enjoyment. But when again the soul... gains

true wisdom of the transcendental region of God...he

begins to get back his pure essential nature... -

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada, Sri

Caitanya's Teachings, p. 323.

ACTUALLY WE ARE ETERNAL FAMILY MEMBERS OF THE LORD, BUT DUE TO OUR MISUSE OF INDEPENDENCE WE HAVE NOW FORGOTTEN OUR ETERNAL RELATIONSHIP WITH KRISHNA, EXACTLY LIKE A MAN WHO IS MAD FORGETS HIS FAMILY RELATIONSHIP AND LOITERS IN THE STREET.69-06-07. Letter: Uttamasloka

THE FIRST BEGINNING BODY IS BRAHMA, VERY EXALTED BODY. BUT ON ACCOUNT OF OUR ABOMINABLE ACTIVITIES, FROM BRAHMA, WE COME DOWN TO BECOME THE WORM OF STOOL..740606BG.GEN Lectures

Bg Introduction

But in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have FORGOTTEN OUR ETERNAL RELATIONSHIP with the Lord. Every living being, out of many, many billions and trillions of living beings, has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called SVARUPA. By the process of devotional service, one can REVIVE THAT SVARUPA, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi--perfection of one's constitutional position. So Arjuna was a devotee, and he was in touch with the Supreme Lord in friendship.

So the conclusion is that whatever may be our past, let us come to Krsna consciousness and immediately join Krsna. Just like with a diseased man, it is a waste of time to try to find out how he has become diseased, better to spend time curing the disease. Mahesh dasa (02-07-07)

91-05-14 Letter to: Unknown Unknown Place Unknown Date

Crow And Tal-Fruit Logic

We never had any occasion when we were separated from Krsna. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the "seen" disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position.

Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krsna desire for sense gratification is there. There is a dormant attitude for forgetting Krsna and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently. Just like at the edge of the beach, sometimes the water covers, sometimes there is dry sand, coming and going. Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there.

We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. FORMERLY WE WERE WITH KRSNA IN HIS LILA OR SPORT. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration, therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. But his long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to Krsna consciousness. Just like in a dream we are thinking very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only. Just like with Krsna's friends, they were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and Krsna returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed.

So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krsna consciousness then this period is considered as a second. For example, Jaya and Vijaya. They had their lila with Krsna, but they had to come down for their little mistake. They were given mukti, emerging into the Brahmasayujya after being killed three times as demons. This Brahmasayujya mukti is non-permanent. Every living entity wants pleasure, but Brahmasayujya is minus pleasure. There is eternal existence only. So when they do not find transcendental bliss, they fall down to make a compromise with material bliss. Just like Vivekananda founded so many schools and hospitals. So even Lord Brahma, he is still material and wants to lord it over. He may come down to become a germ, but then he may rise up to Krsna consciousness and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the position.

So when I say Yes, there is eternal lila with Krsna, that means on the evidence of Jaya-Vijaya. Unless one develops full devotional service to Krsna, he goes up only up to Brahmasayujya but falls down. But after millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krsna consciousness this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming.

BECAUSE HE FALLS DOWN FROM BRAHMASAYUJYA, HE THINKS THAT MAY BE HIS ORIGIN, BUT HE DOES NOT REMEMBER THAT BEFORE THAT EVEN HE WAS WITH KRSNA. So the conclusion is that whatever may be our past, let us come to Krsna consciousness and immediately join Krsna. Just like with a diseased man, it is a waste of time to try to find out how he has become diseased, better to spend time curing the disease.

On the top of the tree there is a nice tal-fruit. A crow went there and the fruit fell down, Some panditas, big big learned scholars saw this and discussed: the fruit fell due to the crow agitating the limb. No, the fruit fell simultaneously with the crow landing and frightened the crow so he flew away. No, the fruit was ripe and the weight of the crow landing broke it from the branch, and so on and so on. What is the use of such discussions? So whether you were in the Brahmasayujya or with Krsna in His lila, at the moment you are in neither, so the best policy is to develop your Krsna consciousness and go there, never mind what is your origin.

Brahmasayujya and Krsna lila--both may be possible, but when you are coming down from Brahmasayujya or when you are coming down from Krsna lila, that remains a mystery. But at the present moment we are in Maya's clutches, so at present our only hope is to become Krsna conscious and go back to Home, back to Godhead. The real position is servant of Krsna, and servant of Krsna means in Krsna lila. Directly or indirectly, always we are serving Krsna's lila. Even in dream. Just like we cannot go out of the sun when it is daytime, so where is the chance of going out of Krsna lila? The cloud may be there, it may become very gray and dim, but still the sunlight is there, everywhere, during the daytime. Because I am part and parcel of Krsna, I am always connected. My finger, even though it may be diseased, remains part and parcel of my body. Therefore, we try to treat it, cure it, because it is part and parcel. So Krsna comes Himself when we forget Him, or He sends His representative.

Awakening or dreaming, I am the same man. As soon as I awaken and see myself, I see Krsna. Cause and effect are both Krsna. Just like cotton becomes thread and thread becomes cloth, still, the original cause is cotton. Therefore, everything is Krsna in the ultimate sense. When we cannot contact Krsna personally, we contact His energies. So there is no chance to be outside Krsna's lila. But differences we see under different conditions. Just like in the pool of water and in the mirror the same me is reflecting, but in different reflections. One is shimmering, unsteady, one is clear and fixed. Except for being in Krsna consciousness, we cannot see our actual position rightly, therefore the learned man sees all living entities as the same parts and parcels of Krsna. Material existence is impersonal because my real personality is covered. But we should think that because I am now covered by this clay, I am diseased, and we should think that I must get to business to get myself uncovered, not wonder how I got this way. Now the fruit is there, take it and enjoy, that is your first business. God is not bound by cause. He can change, He is the Cause of all Causes. Now don't waste your time with this "Kaka taliya nyaya," crows and tal-fruit logic.

760708ed.wdc Conversations

Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, the falldown is there. So because we are living entities, we are not as powerful as Krsna, THEREFORE WE MAY FALL DOWN FROM VAIKUNTHA AT ANY MOMENT. ICCHA-DVESA SAMUTTHENA SARGE YANTI PARANTAPA. FIND OUT THIS VERSE.

Pusta Krsna:

iccha-dvesa samutthena

dvandva-mohena bharata

sarva-bhutani sammoham

sarge yanti parantapa

"O scion of Bharata [Arjuna], O conqueror of the foe, all living entities are born into delusion, overcome by the dualities of desire and hate."

Prabhupada: Purport.

Pusta Krsna: "The real constitutional position of the living entity is that of subordination to the Supreme Lord, who is pure knowledge. When one is deluded into separation from this pure knowledge, he becomes controlled by illusory energy and cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The illusory energy is manifested in the duality of desire and hate. Due to desire and hate the ignorant person wants to become one with the Supreme Lord and envies Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Pure devotees, who are not so deluded or contaminated by desire and hate, can understand that Lord Sri Krsna appears by His internal potencies. But those who are deluded by duality and nescience think that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is created by material energies. This is their misfortune. Such deluded persons symptomatically dwell in dualities of dishonor and honor, misery and happiness, woman and man, good and bad, pleasure and pain, etc., thinking 'This is my wife, this is my house; I am the master of this house, I am the husband of this wife.' These are the dualities of delusion. Those who are so deluded by dualities are completely foolish and cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

Prabhupada: So even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that "Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?" I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, sometimes he may think that "If I could become the master." They are thinking like that, they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he's wrongly thinking.

Vipina: Why doesn't Krsna protect us from that desire?

Prabhupada: He's protecting. He says, "You rascal, don't desire, surrender unto Me." But you are rascal, you do not do this

. Vipina: Why doesn't He save me from thinking like that?

Prabhupada: That means you lose your independence.

Vipina: And no love.

Prabhupada: That is force. (indistinct) prema. In Bengali it is said "If you catch one girl or boy, 'You love me, you love me, you love me.' " Is it love? (laughter) "You love me, otherwise I will kill you." (laughter) Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver, "You love me, otherwise I shall kill you." That is not love, that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love, not by force. That is rape. The... Why one is called lover, another is called rape?