Drutakarma das - mastermind of sleepervada

[Guruvani]

 

That's a little too open-ended. What way? I present the facts also. The topic produces controversy- that is a fact.

A topic that produces controversy is controversial. That is another fact.

So the Vedas ignore the facts?

 

So, to resolve the controversy we can refer to the senior Gaudiyas like Sridhar Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja who both rejected the fall-from-goloka fairytale.

Before some ISKCON crackpots invented the idea it was NOT within the conception of the Gaudiya tradition.

[Guruvani]

 

Choose topics that will foment disagreement and offense.

 

So, maybe we should all just buy into the doctrine that all the disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta except Srila Prabhupada were mayavadis?

 

Bhaktisiddhanta only had ONE real disciple and Srila Prabhupada has hundreds?

 

That is about what they are trying to say.

[suchandra]

 

So, maybe we should all just buy into the doctrine that all the disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta except Srila Prabhupada were mayavadis?

 

Bhaktisiddhanta only had ONE real disciple and Srila Prabhupada has hundreds?

 

That is about what they are trying to say.

"But, because we have no conception of God, we take it, “This is all fictitious. God…” When God gives His reality, identification, and it is recorded in the śāstra, not by any loafer class writer but like Vyāsadeva, and we take it fictitious. Just see our position— Vyāsadeva has bothered his brain to write something fictitious! Just see how low-grade persons we are! We don’t believe writing of Vyāsadeva. Or sometimes we say, “No, no, this was not written by Vyāsadeva. It is interpretation.” If it is interpretation, then why the ācāryas have accepted? They’re also fools—Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Visnusvāmī… They have made commentary on the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.........So Vyāsadeva has written and the ācāryas have accepted. Then I have become such a great scholar that I say it is fictitious. And we have to believe these rascals.

So don’t go to rascal. If you want real knowledge, take it from Bhagavān. bhagavān uvāca. Then your knowledge is perfect. That is our process. We, we have taken Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and we are preaching. We don’t preach anything else which Bhagavān does not say."

 

Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 3.26.1

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

Bombay, December 13, 1974

[cbrahma]

 

So, maybe we should all just buy into the doctrine that all the disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta except Srila Prabhupada were mayavadis?

 

Bhaktisiddhanta only had ONE real disciple and Srila Prabhupada has hundreds?

 

That is about what they are trying to say.

Actually Srila Prabhupada said he was the only son of Bhaktisiddhanta. All the others were daughters, because the daughters stay home, while the son goes out into the world to do his father's bidding.

[cbrahma]

 

So, maybe we should all just buy into the doctrine that all the disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta except Srila Prabhupada were mayavadis?

 

Bhaktisiddhanta only had ONE real disciple and Srila Prabhupada has hundreds?

 

That is about what they are trying to say.

That is not the logical alternative.

[Guruvani]

 

Actually Srila Prabhupada said he was the only son of Bhaktisiddhanta. All the others were daughters, because the daughters stay home, while the son goes out into the world to do his father's bidding.

Thats cute.

Now prove it with an actual verifiable quote.

 

"Prabhupada said"

[cbrahma]

 

Thats cute.

Now prove it with an actual verifiable quote.

 

"Prabhupada said"

It is in the Memories book compiled by Siddhanta prabhu.

It isn't just gossip.

[CCC]

 

Prabhupada: "Just see how much atheist they are. Shameless atheist. Other atheists, they have got some shame. But these people are shameless. Shameless."

 

 

Suchandra,

 

what is the context of that quote?, could you explain me please?

[Beggar]

 

Actually Srila Prabhupada said he was the only son of Bhaktisiddhanta. All the others were daughters, because the daughters stay home, while the son goes out into the world to do his father's bidding.

Okay suppose that Srila Prabhupada actually said this, then how will we harmonize it with trnadapi sunicena taror iva suhisnuna, since a devotee must always remain humble? Sridhar Maharaja told that these kinds of statements by Srila Prabhupada are an example of acarya abhiman, literally the "ego of the acarya". He explained that it is the duty of the acarya to "collect the faith" of the neophytes. So if it helped them to think that Srila Prabhupada was the only acarya, then so be it, at that time, place and circumstance. All statements such as the one you quoted should be viewed as taking place with kala, desha, patra and harmonized with opposite statements such as,

 

 

 

Even amongst our godbrothers we have misunderstanding, but none of us is astray from the service of Krsna. My Guru Maharaja ordered us to execute his mission combinedly. Unfortunately, we are now separated. But none of us have stopped preaching Krsna consciousness. Even there was misunderstanding amongst the godbrothers of my Guru Maharaja, none of them deviated from the transcendental loving service of Krsna. (SP Ltr. Brahmananda, November 18, 1967)

 

The disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami are all godbrothers, and although there are some differences of opinion and we are not acting conjointly, every one of us is spreading this Krsna consciousness movement according to his capacity and producing many disciples to spread it all over the world. ( Bhag. 4.28.31)

 

So far as your question about controversy amongst the disciples of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Maharaja, that is a fact. But this controversy is not material. Just like in a national program, different political parties are sometimes in conflict and make propaganda against each other, but their central point is always service to the country. Similarly, amongst the disciples of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati there may be some controversy, but the central point is how to preach the mission of His Divine Grace. (SP Ltr. Mandali Bhadra, July 28, 1969)

 

 

 

 

[Guruvani]

I don't know of a statement by Srila Prabhupada where he said anything about his Godbrothers having misconceptions about the siddhanta.

 

The differences Srila Prabhupada mentioned were always in terms of differences in ideas about how to preach or propagate the KC movement.

 

I don't think Srila Prabhupada really criticised his Godbrothers for having misonceptions about the Gaudiya siddhanta.

 

I don't think Srila Prabhupada even thought any such thing.

[stonehearted]

 

It is in the Memories book compiled by Siddhanta prabhu.

It isn't just gossip.

If it's in the Memories book, it's not reliable. It's devotees relating their memory of things Srila Prabhupada said, and memory is a very tricky thing. Just because it's in print doesn't mean it's true. So some might find this a nice thing, but we can't establish without any doubt that Srila Prabhupada said it. Nor is it particularly useful in developing our own love for Krishna. If you can find some way such imputed quotations are helpful for our spiritual progress, please let us know.

[stonehearted]

 

So, maybe we should all just buy into the doctrine that all the disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta except Srila Prabhupada were mayavadis?

 

Bhaktisiddhanta only had ONE real disciple and Srila Prabhupada has hundreds?

 

That is about what they are trying to say.

That's exactly what some of them are saying explicitly. A few years ago, on the occasion of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura's tirobhava, I heard a lecture from an ISKCON leader--sannyasi, GBC member, and "initiating guru"--say explicitly that Srila Prabhupada was the only true disciple of Srila Sarasvati Thakura, and that all his other disciples (and that's the word he used: all) became Mayavadis and sahajiyas. His lecture was roundly applauded. I couldn't get out of the room and away from that place fast enough.

[theist]

 

That's exactly what some of them are saying explicitly. A few years ago, on the occasion of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura's tirobhava, I heard a lecture from an ISKCON leader--sannyasi, GBC member, and "initiating guru"--say explicitly that Srila Prabhupada was the only true disciple of Srila Sarasvati Thakura, and that all his other disciples (and that's the word he used: all) became Mayavadis and sahajiyas. His lecture was roundly applauded. I couldn't get out of the room and away from that place fast enough.

 

I keep wondering why, after all this time and experience,you keep putting yourself in that position in the first place Babhru? I see you as someone who should be giving lectures, developing and leading study courses different aspects of Krsna conscious shastra etc. quite independently of Iskcon or any other matha or scene. Not hearing the same old Iskcon line that you have seen beyond decades ago.

 

It's puzzling. Old friendships maybe?

[Beggar]

 

That's exactly what some of them are saying explicitly. A few years ago, on the occasion of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura's tirobhava, I heard a lecture from an ISKCON leader--sannyasi, GBC member, and "initiating guru"--say explicitly that Srila Prabhupada was the only true disciple of Srila Sarasvati Thakura, and that all his other disciples (and that's the word he used: all) became Mayavadis and sahajiyas. His lecture was roundly applauded. I couldn't get out of the room and away from that place fast enough.

Prabhupada-onlyite direct Prabhupada disciples want to be recognized as "Prabhupada disciples" and get interviewed for the "Memories" videos. Yet they want to believe that Prabhupada's godbrothers were all deviants from the path. Not that Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers ever needed their mercy, then or posthumously; but it just seems like such a merciless and hardhearted position to take. "We get the mercy but not those evil Gaudiya Math godbothers." My goodness what a myopic and childish stance to take! As long as this mentality persists, ISKCON and other Prabhupada centered group that maintain such a conception will be taken less and less seriously by the general Gaudiya community. Such sentiments are a disturbance to the real society of aspiring suddha bhaktas and udpatyaiva kalpate, should be kicked out!

[stonehearted]

 

I keep wondering why, after all this time and experience,you keep putting yourself in that position in the first place Babhru? I see you as someone who should be giving lectures, developing and leading study courses different aspects of Krsna conscious shastra etc. quite independently of Iskcon or any other matha or scene. Not hearing the same old Iskcon line that you have seen beyond decades ago.

 

It's puzzling. Old friendships maybe?

Actually, I gave the lecture at that temple that morning. We were scheduled to return home to Hawaii the next morning, and I had never heard this particular godbrother speak before. And it was, after all, Srila Sarasvati Thakura's disappearance festival. I was sorry to have gone; should have spent the evening quietly with my wife and kids. I actually was on my way out the door--wasn't even going to stay for prasadam--when a friend got my attention and expressed his own dismay at what had just been said. At least I wasn't alone.

 

On the Big Island, I led a study group focusing on The Nectar of Devotion the last couple of years I was there. It was quite a wonderful experience. The only reason I stopped was that I left. And I haven't gotten anything like that going here because I've never intended to be here for very long. (Can't believe I'm still here.)

 

My relationship with ISKCON is complicated, often troubled, as some of you may have gathered. But that's not the main focus of my life any more, and hasn't been for quite a long time.

[theist]

Sorry Babhru I got the wrong impression. My bad.

 

 

On the Big Island, I led a study group focusing on The Nectar of Devotion the last couple of years I was there. It was quite a wonderful experience. The only reason I stopped was that I left. And I haven't gotten anything like that going here because I've never intended to be here for very long. (Can't believe I'm still here.)

 

Yeah this is how I picture you and your wife. One of those solid and steady senior householder couples whose home is a natural temple. You know the village brahmana.

[cbrahma]

 

Then start an interesting topic and see how long it lives on the forum.

The fall/origins topics get more hits than the other topics.

Obviously, many people find it interesting.

And what does that prove?

[cbrahma]

 

I don't know of a statement by Srila Prabhupada where he said anything about his Godbrothers having misconceptions about the siddhanta.

 

The differences Srila Prabhupada mentioned were always in terms of differences in ideas about how to preach or propagate the KC movement.

 

I don't think Srila Prabhupada really criticised his Godbrothers for having misonceptions about the Gaudiya siddhanta.

 

I don't think Srila Prabhupada even thought any such thing.

I think and don't think so many things - but what I know is a different matter.

[stonehearted]

 

Sorry Babhru I got the wrong impression. My bad.

 

Yeah this is how I picture you and your wife. One of those solid and steady senior householder couples whose home is a natural temple. You know the village brahmana.

 

Oh, there's nothing to apologize for. In fact, I sometimes wondered myself about some of the same things you mentioned. On the Big Island, and even in San Diego, we sort of were like village brahmanas in many ways. Here, there are so many devotees who have been "fixed up" (still trying to figure what that really means) for so long, and many who have been married as long as we, or longer. The only thing weird about us is that we're from the Big Island. And probably that I won't be here much longer.

[theist]

 

The only thing weird about us is that we're from the Big Island. And probably that I won't be here much longer.

 

 

LOL. Yeah you know other similar couples but from the world I have lived in all such couples are like Big Islands, rare and solid. I'm now thinking of Brsni and Lila suki (was that her name?). Hope they are stil together and doing well.

[stonehearted]

 

LOL. Yeah you know other similar couples but from the world I have lived in all such couples are like Big Islands, rare and solid. I'm now thinking of Brsni and Lila suki (was that her name?). Hope they are stil together and doing well.

Brishni and Leelasukhi (that's how Srila Prabhupada spelled it) are indeed still married. I spoke with them earlier this year. He's teaching at a community college in some God-forsaken place in California. I can't remember where right now. (But they still have their house outside Portland, Oregon.) They're not practicing Krishna consciousness so much any more, but they're solid people.

[cbrahma]

 

If it's in the Memories book, it's not reliable. It's devotees relating their memory of things Srila Prabhupada said, and memory is a very tricky thing. Just because it's in print doesn't mean it's true. So some might find this a nice thing, but we can't establish without any doubt that Srila Prabhupada said it. Nor is it particularly useful in developing our own love for Krishna. If you can find some way such imputed quotations are helpful for our spiritual progress, please let us know.

I knew somebody would question the source. What other recourse could you have? But whether he said those words, the reality remains - these supposedly advanced Vaisnavas did nothing to help Prabhupada and did everything to discourage him in his missionary endeavour. Now that he is gone they join in the 'dividing of the spoils' and the grab for the spiritual master's property.

[theist]

 

Brishni and Leelasukhi (that's how Srila Prabhupada spelled it) are indeed still married. I spoke with them earlier this year. He's teaching at a community college in some God-forsaken place in California. I can't remember where right now. (But they still have their house outside Portland, Oregon.) They're not practicing Krishna consciousness so much any more, but they're solid people.

 

Not practicing so much. I am very sad to hear that. But that is temporary. They will become reengergized. Such nice open people.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Recently, somebody (I believe it was Gurudev himself) was reminiscing how Srila Prabhupada was trying to get Srila Sridhar Maharaja to see Gandhi when he came to Kolkatta in order to "convert" Gandhi, but Srila Sridhar Maharaja was reluctant to go.

 

Truly Abhay!!! Truly fearless!!!

 

Jai Srila Prabhupada!

 

 

I don't know of a statement by Srila Prabhupada where he said anything about his Godbrothers having misconceptions about the siddhanta.

 

The differences Srila Prabhupada mentioned were always in terms of differences in ideas about how to preach or propagate the KC movement.

 

I don't think Srila Prabhupada really criticised his Godbrothers for having misonceptions about the Gaudiya siddhanta.

 

I don't think Srila Prabhupada even thought any such thing.

[Guruvani]

 

but what I know is a different matter.

You only think you know.

You don't really KNOW until you have realized the truth in fact.

 

You just say "I know" and I say "I think" because I don't like being so arrogant as to come across so sure of myself.

 

You really don't KNOW anything.

You just have things you believe in like everyone else does.