The Villagers and the train - Different realizations of the absolute truth

[Vigraha]

 

 

The Villagers and the train - Different realizations of the absolute truth

 

 

Many years ago, the British came to India and began building a train line between Delhi and Mathura. Many simple villages on the outskirts at the time had no idea what a train looked like, so when the time had come to greet the train, the village elders would sent a young representative down to meet the train and ascertain what it is and then come back with the news of its anticipated arrival.

 

On the evening of its appearance, the villagers patiently and inquisitively waited in expectation and wonder of what a ‘train’ was. Eventually day turned to night and everyone in the Village became anxious and excited, knowing the train’s arrival was imminent. The fact was, no one had any inkling of what a train was. The young boy was dispatched and was told to immediately report back to the Village elder as soon as he identifies the train.

 

Off the young boy went in the dark and began to wait patiently. The night sky was clear and there was very little breeze in the air, he could hear the usual sounds of native animals although; even they were quite on this still moonless chilly night.

 

Then to the young boys surprise, out of the pitch black darkness and the still of night, he heard this thunderous extended high-pitched sound (the train whistles), being excited, he was convinced he now new what the train was. He immediately ran back to the village elders and excitedly told them,

 

 

"The train is a big sound"

 

 

Some of the elders were puzzled, but most accepted the news as final and that a train is just a sound. Still not convinced the train was just a sound, feeling puzzled, a few decided to send another young villager down to investigate this sound and if there was more to the train. The second young boy the villager elders sent down was told to wait well into the darkness of night until the sound came closer to him. Eventually, after hearing the sound many times in a mood of fear of the unknown and inquisitiveness of what a train really is, he finally saw in the distance an extremely bright light that scared him. The combination of the sound and the bright blinding light frightened him because he did not understand what he was experiencing! Being excited he rushed back to the elders proclaiming,

 

 

 

“The train is not only a sound but is also 'bright blinding light' as well”

 

 

Many at the village where now convinced what a train was and most where satisfied however, still a few believed there might be more to a train than an impersonal sound and light. So again they sent a third young boy to investigate. He also began to patiently wait and stay for as long as it takes. He began experiencing the sound getting louder and the light getting brighter, louder and louder the sound was becoming while at the same time the light was becoming brighter and brighter - then to his surprise, both the sound and light passed him by. To his astonishment, he discovered the source of both the sound and light, coming from the form of the train. Behind the sound and light was form, or objects like carriages that are filled with people like him, all engaging in all kinds of different activities? He ran back to the village yelling,

 

 

 

“The train is a form from where the sound and light emanated, where people are engaged in all kinds of activity”.

They all eventually saw the train for what it really is (Personalism) Brahman therefore is held together by form

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BALARAMA AND KRISHNA

 

 

The highest realizing is Personalism. The above painting is of Krishna and His brother Balarama whose abode Goloka-Vrindavan is beyond the impersonal light or impersonal Brahman destination of impersonalist yogis and Buddhists. There are three basic aspects of the absolute truth.

 

The goal of human life is to perfect ones individuality, identity, Personality by serving a bonafide Spiritual Master and again begin to re-establish ones eternal relationship with Krishna. In this way one should not foolishly attempt to extinguish ones individual identity in some nonsense ‘Its all one’ atheistic madness by only mediating on the Impersonal sound Om or the Impersonal Brahmajoyti, Nirvana or Clear Light. The complete picture of Krishna’s creation can only be realized through the favour of Krishna’s Pure Devotees.

 

The Jains, Buddhist, Impersonalists Yogis and Mayavadis are compared to the villager hearing the sound or only seeing the light and foolishly believing that formless impersonalism is the ‘Absolute Truth’. They are not seeing the bigger picture of what the Absolute Truth really is as described in the previous narrative about the train.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Impersonalist Yogi.

 

The Impersonalist Yogis, Mayavadis and Buddhists version of Brahmajyoti (Nirvana) is ONE all pervasive life force with no individuality or identity which is really atheism. Impersonalist yogis, Mayavadis and Buddhists do not believe in individual souls (jivas). They therefore believe the ultimate end of existence is to perfect their constitution by accumulating the knowledge (cit) of how to end the cycle of birth and death (karma), then merge their consciousness into the oneness of Nirvana (void or light) like rivers flow into the ocean, denying the existence of identity, individuality, personality and perpetual bodily form.

 

The impersonal Brahmajyoti is where individual nitya-baddha-souls (impersonalist yogis) remain dormant without having any knowledge of their original and eternal nitya-siddha bodily form. This state of suspended animation and forgetfulness is also known as Impersonalism. Even this state of inactive dreamless existence in the Brahmajoyti is temporary, although it may seem to lasts for an almost a time without end, in the face of the eternal 'prsents' in Goloka, it is only less than a moment.

They therefore cannot understand the eternal unchanging perpetual Krishna Conscious living universe (Goloka) where a blissful loving relationship exists with Krishna and His eternal associates. This Perpetual Living Universe of Lord Krishna’s is beyond the cloud cover known as the material creation or mahat-tattva. Srila Prabhupada says – “where there is light there is no darkness’.

 

[Beggar]

The yogis upon their perfection or siddhi can see paramatma or the Supersoul in their heart.

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 10.42

atha vā bahunaitena

kiḿ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaḿ kṛtsnam

ekāḿśena sthito jagat

SYNONYMS

atha vā — or; bahunā — many; etena — by this kind; kim — what; jñātena — by knowing; tava — your; arjuna — O Arjuna; viṣṭabhya — pervading; aham — I; idam — this; kṛtsnam — entire; eka — by one; aḿśena — part; sthitaḥ — am situated; jagat — universe.

TRANSLATION

But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe.

PURPORT

The Supreme Lord is represented throughout the entire material universes by His entering into all things as the Supersoul. The Lord here tells Arjuna that there is no point in understanding how things exist in their separate opulence and grandeur. He should know that all things are existing due to Kṛṣṇa's entering them as Supersoul. From Brahmā, the most gigantic entity, on down to the smallest ant, all are existing because the Lord has entered each and all and is sustaining them.

There is a Mission that regularly propounds that worship of any demigod will lead one to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, or the supreme goal. But worship of demigods is thoroughly discouraged herein because even the greatest demigods like Brahmā and Śiva represent only part of the opulence of the Supreme Lord. He is the origin of everyone born, and no one is greater than Him. He is asamaurdhva, which means that no one is superior to Him and that no one is equal to Him. In the Padma Purāṇa it is said that one who considers the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa in the same category with demigods — be they even Brahmā or Śiva — becomes at once an atheist. If, however, one thoroughly studies the different descriptions of the opulences and expansions of Kṛṣṇa's energy, then one can understand without any doubt the position of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa and can fix his mind in the worship of Kṛṣṇa without deviation. The Lord is all-pervading by the expansion of His partial representation, the Supersoul, who enters into everything that is. Pure devotees, therefore, concentrate their minds in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in full devotional service; therefore they are always situated in the transcendental position. Devotional service and worship of Kṛṣṇa are very clearly indicated in this chapter in verses eight through eleven. That is the way of pure devotional service. How one can attain the highest devotional perfection of association with the Supreme Personality of Godhead has been thoroughly explained in this chapter. Śrīla Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa, a great ācārya in disciplic succession from Kṛṣṇa, concludes his commentary on this chapter by saying,

yac-chakti-leśāt suryādyā

bhavanty aty-ugra-tejasaḥ

yad-aḿśena dhṛtaḿ viśvaḿ

sa kṛṣṇo daśame 'rcyate

From Lord Kṛṣṇa's potent energy even the powerful sun gets its power, and by Kṛṣṇa's partial expansion the whole world is maintained. Therefore Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is worshipable.

Thus end the Bhaktivedanta Purports to the Tenth Chapter of the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā in the matter of the Opulence of the Absolute.

[Vigraha]

Intersting reading Begger, how many different impersonalist are there? When I was last in India I meet so-called yogis who believed one all-pervasive consciousness flowed through all bodily forms, how can they see Paramatma when that dark cloud of 'onesness' madness known as - 'T am you, you are me, and we are all together' , blinds them to Krishna and their own full potential of individual devotional service?

[Beggar]

Part of a Srila Prabhupada Lecture - 6 Jul 76 , Washington, D.C.

"So this yoga system was possible in the Satya-yuga, I mean to say, possible for the mass of people. If one or two persons practices yoga, the practice is there, the system is there, but it is not possible for the general public. It is not possible. So in the sastra we find, krte yad dhyayato visnuh [sB 12.3.52]. Real yoga system, I've already explained, that yoga indriya samyamah, or by meditation to see the Supreme Lord always within the heart. Dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yoginah [sB 12.13.1]. In trance, you'll find yogi picture, their trance, they are in meditation, completely silent, stop breathing and seeing the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Visnu, within the heart. This is actual yoga system. But it was possible to be executed in the Satya-yuga. Satya-yuga means when people used to live for one hundred thousands of years. That was possible. Just like Valmiki Muni. He executed yoga system for sixty thousand years. Because he was to live for one hundred thousands of years, so it was not very difficult to engage oneself for sixty thousands of years. But that is not possible in this age. Therefore sastra says,

 

 

krte yad dhyayato visnum

tretayam yajato makhaih

dvapare paricaryayam

kalau tad dhari-kirtanat

[sB 12.3.52]

 

 

Kalau, in this Kali-yuga, when people are very, very fallen... Mandah sumanda-matayo manda-bhagya hy upadrutah [sB 1.1.10]. They are very unfortunate also, and manda-bhagya, and although unfortunate, they are disturbed by so many external factors. So it is very difficult to execute yoga system or yajna system, sacrifice. It is very costly affair. Or even arcana, temple worship, it is also very difficult, because people are not very much interested even, worshiping the Deity in the temple. In India there are thousands and thousands of temples, temple or mosque or church, at the same time, for offering prayers, obeisances to the Lord. People are losing interest in that arcana-marga. There are many temples I have seen, there is no caretaker. People are losing interest. Many temples. They are open; a dog is living within the temple and passing stool. I have seen it.

 

So people are gradually losing interest in temple worship even, what to speak of yoga or offering sacrifices. Everything is now finished. Therefore kalau tad dhari-kirtanat. This is prescribed in the sastra. That system was introduced by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Because other system will not be successful in this age. May be successful in one or two cases, but not for the general mass of people. Therefore sastra recommends... There are different incarnation of God, but one incarnation is there, it is mentioned in the Srimad-Bhagavatam and other places also, in Upanisad and Mahabharata. These are approved Vedic scriptures. So the Vedic knowledge is summarized in the Vedanta system, Brahma-sutra, everything done by Vyasadeva. And in order to protect the sanctity of Vedanta... Because there are so many foolish persons, they are distorting the purpose of Vedanta-sutra; therefore Vyasadeva, under the instruction of his spiritual master Narada, he personally wrote a commentary on the Vedanta-sutra. This is Srimad-Bhagavatam. So Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu introduced these two things -- sankirtana and Srimad-Bhagavatam. And Srimad-Bhagavatam means the expansion of Bhagavad-gita. Just like in the Bhagavad-gita you'll find, at the last stage, Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [bg. 18.66]. And Srimad-Bhagavatam also begins from that point. Srimad-Bhagavatam gives introduction, dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra [sB 1.1.2]. All cheating type of religious system kicked out, projjhita. Projjhita means just like you sweep over the floor, and all the dust, you throw it away. That is called projjhita. Prakrsta-rupena ujjhita."

[theist]

The villiagers and train. Excellent parable. Saved to file. Thanks.

[Vigraha]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Impersonalist Yogi.

 

The impersonal Brahmajyoti is where individual nitya-baddha-souls (as a impersonalist yogis) remain dormant without having any knowledge of their original and eternal nitya-siddha bodily form. This state of suspended animation and forgetfulness is also known as Impersonalism. Even this state of inactive dreamless existence in the Brahmajoyti is temporary, although it may seem to lasts for an almost a time without end, in the face of the eternal 'prsents' in Goloka, it is only less than a moment.

 

 

I Just want to clean this up. The nitya-baddha consciousness is the secondary non-Krishna conscious asoect of ALL marginal living entity. After many births and deaths in the material world, he may attempt to give up the desire for sense gratification. After being on the path of yogic disciplines, eventually after many many more life times, the embodied yogi, which is contained in an ethereal bodyconfined as their nitya-baddha lower conscious self is an secondary or inferior aspect of ones marginal identity,

[Kulapavana]

 

After being on the path of yogic disciplines, eventually after many many more life times, the embodied yogi, which is contained in an ethereal bodyconfined as their nitya-baddha lower conscious self is an secondary or inferior aspect of ones marginal identity,

 

Prabhu, just keep it simple and true, just like in this quote from BG 2.13:

 

------------------

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.

 

 

PURPORT

 

Since every living entity is an individual soul, each is changing his body every moment, manifesting sometimes as a child, sometimes as a youth, and sometimes as an old man. Yet the same spirit soul is there and does not undergo any change. This individual soul finally changes the body at death and transmigrates to another body; and since it is sure to have another body in the next birth--either material or spiritual--there was no cause for lamentation by Arjuna on account of death...

---------------------------

 

What comes out of the yogi's head? Duh... it is the soul!

 

Imagine that... spirit souls actually present in the material world!

 

Wake up sleepervadis!

[Beggar]

 

Wake up sleepervadis!

This is nothing! Have you seen, "The Bride of Sleeper-Vadis"?

[Shakti-Fan]

 

This is nothing! Have you seen, "The Bride of Sleeper-Vadis"?

Oh, you maka da funny eh? Hahaha! Hehehehe! Take your own advice and listen: http://www.orbitfiles.com/download/id703767618

[Kulapavana]

 

This is nothing! Have you seen, "The Bride of Sleeper-Vadis"?

 

LOL! good one, Beggar

 

I was thinking about the "Bidge of Sighs" by Robin Trower

 

"The sun don't shine

The moon don't move the tides,

to wash me clean

Sun don't shine

The moon don't move the tides,

to wash me clean

Why so unforgiving and why so cold

Been a long time

crossing Bridge of Sighs

Cold wind blows

The Gods look down in anger,

on this poor child..."

[realist]

 

I Just want to clean this up. The nitya-baddha consciousness is the secondary non-Krishna conscious asoect of ALL marginal living entity. After many births and deaths in the material world, he may attempt to give up the desire for sense gratification. After being on the path of yogic disciplines, eventually after many many more life times, the embodied yogi, which is contained in an ethereal bodyconfined as their nitya-baddha lower conscious self is an secondary or inferior aspect of ones marginal identity,

 

Only a fool without any understanding of spiritual life wouldn’t understand this.

 

It’s simple to understand. EVERYONE'S nitya-siddha body is permanently established in the 'endless' present in Goloka. However,for those few who have been covered by their nitya-baddha restricted conscious, or non-Krishna conscious desires, thoughts and DREAMS, THEY ROAM AROUND THE MATERIAL CREATION confined to material ethereal and biological vessels for so long, it seems like an eternity.

 

Sometimes in the ethereal or subtle body of a demigod, a biological human form, a biological dog form, a sahu form, a yogi form, a ghost form even no form dreaming a dreamless state in the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.

 

And if you duds stay long enough in the mahat-tattva, you will see its demise and be around for the next mahat-tattva cycle of stage plays where Begger can hire the bodily vessel of Guruvani and Kulapavana can hire or experience the bodily vehicle of Shakti fan.

 

Hey boys, don't get to attached to those material bodies you are in, they ARE a permanent fixtures of the maha-tattva (material creation) meaning they are destroyed yet again reappear in the next cycle of MAHA-TATTVA CREATION (the dreams of Maha-Vishnu).

 

Maybe you guys can one day, in another time place, circumstance, universe and material creation experience the ethereal and bioliogical vessel of REALISTS Wakey Wakey

 

You guys are so spiritual Juvenal in your PRIMITIVE understanding. Can you handle the truth of what is really going on in the material crazy DREAM-vardi world? Sridar Maharaj is/was a great Vaishnava respected by Srila Prabhupada however, his deep understanding of the shastra was nowhere near as advanced as Srila Prabhupada, Prabhupada new the essences of the Vedas and that was preaching in every town and Village of the world. I’m not being offensive or critical here, it’s just a fact

[Guruvani]

 

Only a fool without any understanding of spiritual life wouldn’t understand this.

 

It’s simple to understand. EVERYONE'S nitya-siddha body is permanently established in the 'endless' present in Goloka. However,for those few who have been covered by their nitya-baddha restricted conscious, or non-Krishna conscious desires, thoughts and DREAMS, THEY ROAM AROUND THE MATERIAL CREATION confined to material ethereal and biological vessels for so long, it seems like an eternity.

 

Sometimes in the ethereal or subtle body of a demigod, a biological human form, a biological dog form, a sahu form, a yogi form, a ghost form even no form dreaming a dreamless state in the Impersonal Brahmajyoti. And if you duds stay long enough in the mahat-tattva, you will see its demise and be around for the next mahat-tattva cycle of plays where Begger can be in the bodily vessel of Guruvani and Kulapavana can experience the bodily vehicle of Shakti fan.

 

Hey boys, don't get to attached to those material bodies you are in, they ARE a permanent fixtures of the maha-tattva (material creation) meaning they are destroyed yet again reappear in the next cycle of MAHA-TATTVA CREATION (the dreams of Maha-Vishnu).

 

Maybe you guys can one day, in another time place, circumstance, universe and material creation experience the ethereal and bioliogical vessel of REALISTS Wakey Wakey

 

You guys are so spiritual Juvenal in your PRIMITIVE understanding. Can you handle the truth of what is really going on in the material crazy DREAM-vardi world? Sirdar Maharaj is/was a great Vaishnava respected by Srila Prabhupada however, his deep understanding of the shastra was nowhere near as advanced as Srila Prabhupada, Prabhupada new the essences of the Vedas and that was preaching in every town and Village of the world. I’m not being offensive or critical here, it’s just a fact:namaskar:

 

 

What a pompous ass.

Nobody but you believes in that hogwash philosophy that you manufacture and spit at all the devotees of this forum.

 

I guess when nobody wants to play your sleepervadi rant game anymore you just turn to ad-hominem insults to make yourself feel all warm and fuzzy in your self-rightous, pompous arrogance.

[Guruvani]

Mastermind of Sleepervada...

Jackass with blinders on.

 

[Beggar]

There is obviously nothing wrong with the concept that we are in a sense already liberated, nitya siddha krsna prema sadhya kabu naya. Siddhanta is all about how concepts are applied. If we think that because of the nitya siddha krsna prema verse and Srila Prabhupada's paraphrases of it, that we are non-different than Krsna's eternal servitors, then we are making a big mistake. When it comes down to it it's really not a mistake in knowledge but rather in mood. In other words, if you view things in such a way that you will not worship the eternal servitors of Krsna then you will put yourself in a position to only worship Krsna alone. This is really what is half-mayavada. If you can triangulate the statements of Srila Prabhupada with the previous acaryas and sources like Sridhar Maharaja, you will see that Srila Prabhupada was doing the same thing. Srila Prabhupada clearly explained in many places about the tatastha origin of the jiva as well of the fact that from the "philosophical viewpoint" the conditioned jiva is really already liberated but not realizing it. The Gaudiya Vaisnavas think it a particular way about Reality the Beautiful, it's done in the correct way at the right time. Generally you won't get this just from reading books you'll have to be around somebody who does it the correct way and learn how all this things are applied under many different circumstances.

[realist]

 

What a pompous ass.

Nobody but you believes in that hogwash philosophy that you manufacture and spit at all the devotees of this forum.

 

I guess when nobody wants to play your sleepervadi rant game anymore you just turn to ad-hominem insults to make yourself feel all warm and fuzzy in your self-rightous, pompous arrogance.

 

Your so innocent and sweet Wakey wakey prabhusical!!, Your in a dream world and don't even know it, maybe next time around you can have my body and I can have your body and then we will know how our nitya-baddha consciousnesses felt confined to those vessels or rather dreamed in the material world of the dream-avardis:sleep: (the nitya-baddha's)

[Guruvani]

 

Your so innocent and sweet wakey wakey prabu!!, Your in a dream world and don't even know it, maybe next time around you can have my body and I can have your body and then we will know how our nitya-baddha consciousnesses felt or rather dreamed in the material world of the dream-avardis:sleep:

 

You have a mental problem.

I am sorry your offenses have driven you to such madness.

[realist]

 

Maybe next time around you can have my body and I can have your body and then we will know how our nitya-baddha consciousnesses felt confined to those vessels or rather dreamed in the material world of the dream-avardis:sleep: (the nitya-baddha's)

 

Your all dreamavardis’ and you don't even know it

[Guruvani]

 

Your all dreamavardis’ and you don't even know it

 

You need help, but I think it is already too late for this lifetime.

[Guruvani]

Dreamervadi?

 

[realist]

I can be you (bodily vessel) you can be me (bodily vessels) and we can all be each other (Only the bodily material containments of ethereal and biological nature (vessels)

 

The mahat-tattva world of the nitya-baddha dream-avardis is only attained when one chooses to mise use their free will and forget Krishna and their own perpetual nitya siddha Krishna Conscious body which is their genuine, authentic and permanent devotional bodly self.

[Guruvani]

 

I can be you (bodily vessel) you can be me (bodily vessels) and we can all be each other (Only the bodily material containments of ethereal and biological nature (vessels)

 

The mahat-tattva world of the nitya-baddha dream-avardis is only attained when one chooses to mise use their free will and forget Krishna and their own perpetual nitya siddha Krishna Conscious body which is their genuine, authentic and permanent devotional bodly self.

 

Hogwash.

Pure nonsense.

You need help mister.

[Beggar]

 

I can be you (bodily vessel) you can be me (bodily vessels) and we can all be each other (Only the bodily material containments of ethereal and biological nature (vessels)

The mahat-tattva world of the nitya-baddha dream-avardis is only attained when one chooses to mise use their free will and forget Krishna and their own perpetual nitya siddha Krishna Conscious body which is their genuine, authentic and permanent devotional bodly self.

 

Hogwash.

Pure nonsense.

You need help mister.

 

It's one thing to invent your own siddhanta. But to not have the sense to disguise your concoction is actually quite humorous. You must have a lot of bravado or be just plain stupid to red flag your concoctions by brazenly inventing a new "devotional" vernacular. Most often when persons claim to promote Srila Prabhupada they stick to his phraseology but the Sleeper-vadis have become a caricature or parody of themselves by the use of their concocted, invented vocabulary. Why not just wear a big sign on your asana that says, "I'm bogus"! The effect would be about the same. But such is the fate of those who are so deluded. It seems hard to believe this is even happening, but then again we are thirty years out, thirty long years since the disappearance of the sakyavesa avatar of Lord Nityananda, Srila Prabhupada.

[gHari]

If I search for the twenty-six qualities to determine which camp presents the truth, which camp comes from Sri Krsna, then it's quite clear which conclusions are not worth considering - right or wrong.

[realist]

All you nitya-baddha dream-avadis out there in the mahat-tattva and the impersonal Brahmajyoti, wakey wakey stop allowing your thoughts to keep purchasing material vessels off Maha-Vishnu who sleeps and dreams on Ananta Sesa the big gigantic transcendental snakey

Quote:

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The mahat-tattva world of the nitya-baddha dream-avardis is only attained when one chooses to mise use their free will and forget Krishna and their own perpetual nitya siddha Krishna Conscious body which is their genuine, authentic and permanent devotional bodly self.

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[suchandra]

 

It's one thing to invent your own siddhanta. But to not have the sense to disguise your concoction is actually quite humorous. You must have a lot of bravado or be just plain stupid to red flag your concoctions by brazenly inventing a new "devotional" vernacular. Most often when persons claim to promote Srila Prabhupada they stick to his phraseology but the Sleeper-vadis have become a caricature or parody of themselves by the use of their concocted, invented vocabulary. Why not just wear a big sign on your asana that says, "I'm bogus"! The effect would be about the same. But such is the fate of those who are so deluded. It seems hard to believe this is even happening, but then again we are thirty years out, thirty long years since the disappearance of the sakyavesa avatar of Lord Nityananda, Srila Prabhupada.

Sleeper-vadis - accomplished by "expert" Iraq policy.