The Villagers and the train - Different realizations of the absolute truth

[Beggar]

 

... and the impersonal Brahmajyoti that only uneducated indian old fools think we originate from.

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Jaiva Dharma,

 

"The line between the water of a river and the land on the bank is called the ' tata'. The land is contiguous to the water; where is then the 'tata'? The 'tata' is only like a thread discriminating the land from the water. The 'tata' is a very fine line of distinction which is not discernible with the gross eyes. If the chit world is compared to water and the mayika or material world to land, then the 'tata' is the fine line dividing the one from the other; the place of the jiva-potency is that line of juncture between the two worlds. Just as there are glowing atoms in the sun-rays, so also are the jivas; they may have a vision of the chit world on the one side and on the other this world as built by maya. The chit-potency of God is boundless, so is His maya-potency also enormous; between them are there the innumerable minute jivas. The jivas emanate from the tatastha shakti (border-potency) of Sri Krishna; so is the nature too tatastha (border-potency) of Sri Krishna."

I would admonish you to be careful about what you say. but it is clear now that it would be to no avail. I have never seen such a psychopathic tendency to rush headlong into Vaisnava Aparadha, you are quite a specimen. Then again it is said, "fools rush in where angels fear to tread."

[theist]

Svarupa here is the problem. I copied and pasted quotes from others along with their responses into a new post. When you hit the quote button it only shows up as a quote from me.

 

I never noticed it before either and may have done it myself at some time.

 

To restate, I accept that the individual soul is dreaming the mayaic condition but take no position on its origin rather Goloka Vaikuntha or the Brahman.

 

That truth is quite apart from the origins debate. Anyone who cannot understand this has no real understanding of the basic facts of their own condition. We see this confusion in Guruvani's refusal to admit the soul cannot be contaminated. Or if we want to say forgetfullness of the souls' purity is a form of contamination then that's all right, its just semantics. As you know the soul is compared to the cloud covered sun. The sun is never clouded over only our vision of the sun is obscured. Or the sky is never polluted.

 

So we agree on everything except I take no position on origins.

[theist]

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by gHari

Maybe we end up arguing like little girls about this stuff because both sides present their position as fact. Let's face it - if Babaji can't say it, then nobody can. How is it we are so positive? Are we trivializing it - relying on words and logic? When we got to Goloka did we say "Hey, I've never been here before" or "Back at last - there are my slippers"?

This controversy so sounds like the bheda and abheda, dvaita-advaita debate:

 

1. It says bheda here, here and here! I will ignore all abheda references.

 

2. It says abheda there, there and there! (I will ignore all bheda references)

 

3. Both are correct, inconceivably. I will embrace all references in the Vedas - otherwise it is offensive.

 

 

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Quote by Beggar:

Go back through the hundreds of posts. Only the Sleeper-Vada side ignores opposite quotes from Srila Prabhupada. We attempt to harmonize them. Srila Saraswati Thakur said that, "religion means proper adjustment".

To harmonize apparent contradictions (the bheda and abheda) is proper adjustment.

------------------

The only genuine attempt at harmonization I have ever seen is in the form of gHari's quote above.

 

O course to be fair I don't read all these thousands of posts saying the same things over and over but the fact that everyday the same nonsense is all over the forum tells me there is no real harmonization happening.

 

You see harmonization on this topic takes place in a place past your words, thoughts and concepts. It will come as a spiritually vibrant intuition and in silence. Babaji taught us that in JD 15th chapter.

 

"Mauna is golden...golden."

[Svarupa]

 

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Jaiva Dharma,

 

I would admonish you to be careful about what you say. but it is clear now that it would be to no avail. I have never seen such a psychopathic tendency to rush headlong into Vaisnava Aparadha, you are quite a specimen. Then again it is said, "fools rush in where angels fear to tread."

 

 

 

Your a complete fool and idiot Begger-Guruvani, the anti-Vaishnava aparadhai's, stick this in your lar lar land pipe and smoke it Mr vardi-speculators-maya-vardis

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Svarupa

... and the impersonal Brahmajyoti that only uneducated indian old fools think we originate from.

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quote Sarva-gattah

Srila Prabhupada – “You are NOT eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA). You are eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA)’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968,

 

Quote Vigraha

We are ALL nitya-siddha and are only DREAMING we are nitya baddha

 

THE FINAL CONCLUSION

 

HARE KRISHNA ALL, HAVE A WONDERFUL KRISHNA CONSCIOUS DAY ON THE CHRISTMAS MARATHON, BOOK DISTRBUTION IS THE BASIS!!

Yes we are dreaming our material continuation as well as our existence in the Impersonal Brahmajyoti, if we dare go to that dreaming-MAYA-avardi dreamless loveless selfish impersonal state of our own nitya-baddha consciousness.

 

Our original position is perpetually established in Goloka (NITYA-SIDDHA) beyond the mundane time and space of the mahat-tattva (material creation) and the impersonal Brahmajyoti:deal: :smash: :deal:

[Guruvani]

 

Your a complete fool and idiot Begger-Guruvani, the anti-Vaishnava aparadhai's, stick this in your lar lar land pipe and smoke it Mr vardi-speculators-maya-vardis

OK Mr. Sleepervadi baby.

 

[Svarupa]

 

how you can't understand a simply thing that you are a pure soul but your coverings are polluted?

 

"The soul is atomic in size and can be perceived by perfect intelligence. This atomic soul is floating in the five kinds of air [prana, apana, vyana, samana and udana], is situated within the heart, and spreads its influence all over the body of the embodied living entities. When the soul is purified from the contamination of the five kinds of material air, its spiritual influence is exhibited." (Mund. 3.1.9)

 

Chapter 2, Verse 23.

The soul can never be cut into pieces by any weapon, nor can he be burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.

Chapter 2, Verse 24.

This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same.

Chapter 2, Verse 25.

It is said that the soul is invisible, inconceivable, immutable, and unchangeable. Knowing this, you should not grieve for the body.

 

Quote:

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"“No-one can hurt you unless you let them, some even tried to kill me, but I depended on Krishna” Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Maharaj Prabhupada

 

[Kulapavana]

 

Thats right Vigraha's old mate Guruvani, all nitya siddha's including you in your material body, me in mine and the present DREAMING nitya-baddha consciousness, who is the head of the Guruvani cheersquad (Jason Alexander) are all nitya-siddhas right now and have never and will never fall from Goloka however, we all can and have DREAMED we have have fallen, but really ONLY our awareness of our nitya-siddha body is covered like the clouds cover our awareness or vision of the sun.

 

Our original position is perpetually established in Goloka ((NITYA-SIDDHA) beyond the mundane time and space of the mahat-tattva (material creation) and the impersonal Brahmajyoti that only uneducated indian old fools think we originate from.

 

if we are all nitya-siddhas, who are the nitya-baddhas? why are we even talking about TWO classes of living entities, if you claim we are ALL nitya-siddhas? perhaps the sadhus who wrote the shastras were not aware of the TRUTH (the sleeper-vada)?

 

and who exactly are you calling an uneducated indian old fool? the tatastha region of brahmajyoti origin of living entities was clearly accepted by both Bhaktivinoda and Bhaktisiddhanta. Are you trying to offend them as well?

[Svarupa]

 

if we are all nitya-siddhas, who are the nitya-baddhas? why are we even talking about TWO classes of living entities, if you claim we are ALL nitya-siddhas? perhaps the sadhus who wrote the shastras were not aware of the TRUTH (the sleeper-vada)?

 

And who exactly are you calling an uneducated indian old fool? the tatastha region of brahmajyoti origin of living entities was clearly accepted by both Bhaktivinoda and Bhaktisiddhanta. Are you trying to offend them as well?

 

I am being courteous enough to answer in proper etiquette without any angry, nasty abuse, posts, if you reply, be scriptural and courteous. I am no longer getting involve with abusive posts

Yours sincerely Svarupa dasa

Answer to question 1 - There is only one reality and that is Goloka and its surrounding Vaikuntha planets.

A - Reality means eternally established in the 'endless present', where there is no past or future, as we know it.

B -There is also only nitya-siddhas, one class of living entity in Goloka’s eternal presents serving <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comKrishna</st1:place>. Everything else is simply and illusion (see E) that that we create with our mind due to our freewill. We make the choice in our independent way of thinking that sub-consciously appears to make us leave Goloka and our awareness of <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>, but actually we have not gone anywhere, we have only imagined we have.

C -That independent mistaken desire and choice, covers our awareness like a cloud covers the sun, but actually we are the same person, there is only the nitya-siddha devotee, but due to the cloud cover it only appears there are two classes of living entities.

D – The name for that covered state, that is the product of thought of the mind, is nitya-baddha, but actually nothing has really changed, one is the same one person they have always been, which is nitya-siddha, but due to being covered, we cannot see that, in fact. we are now convinced we are the covered nitya-baddha because we are no longer aware of who we really are (nitya-siddha)

E - In other words, just as the cloud covers our view of the sun, our covered state is real, but temporary.

D - This is known to the sadhu’s and Acharayas and for you and I to actually realize this, we must be Krishna Consciousness. I know this is hard to understand because of the Gaudiya math and even some ISKCON devotee’s interpretations, but we must thoroughly search out the scriptures for answers. Also, just because one’s an Indian, American, English, German, Russian, Australian or Chinese Sadu or even Sanskrit scholar, does not make his opinion correct. Sadhu, shastra and guru are the only way. And each of us has to work that one out for ourselves.

Answer to question 2 –No-one in particular, who ever feels guilty enough for the shoe to fit, India, nay, the entire world is full of bogus so called sadu's, guru's and sannyasis claiming to be anything from god to Impersonalists and even personalists. The cheaters and the cheated.

[Beggar]

 

Reality means eternally established in the 'endless present', where there is no past or future, as we know it.

 

As Srila Prabhupada said this is from the "philosophical" angle of vision. There is also the angle of vision from our present temporary situation which has existed from time immemorial. But none of this precludes the conception of the tathastha shakti as the origin of the jiva soul. Siddhanta or devotional conclusion for Gaudiya Vaisnavas must take into account the super-excellent pristine existence of the parishads of Sri Krsna. Any philosophy, not withstanding apparently contradictory statements by Srila Prabhupada (for time, place and circumstance), that equates the fallen jivas with the parishads of Sri Krsna is eroneous and leads to the worship of Krsna, alone. This is what is considered "half-mayavada". I've made this point about 20 times in the last few months and not once has anyone on your side even attempted to comment on this! Also why your camp alledges that the philosophy that the jiva is manifested from the tatastha shakti is impersonalism has also never been explained.

[Kulapavana]

 

B -There is also only nitya-siddhas, one class of living entity in Goloka’s eternal presents serving Krishna, but actually we have not gone anywhere, we have only imagined we have.

C -That independent mistaken desire and choice, covers our awareness like a cloud covers the sun, but actually we are the same person, there is only the nitya-siddha devotee, but due to the cloud cover it only appears there are two classes of living entities.

D – The name for that covered state, that is the product of thought of the mind, is nitya-baddha, but actually nothing has really changed, one is the same one person they have always been, which is nitya-siddha, but due to being covered, we cannot see that, in fact. we are now convinced we are the covered nitya-baddha because we are no longer aware of who we really are (nitya-siddha)

 

 

Here is pure shastra:

 

BG 15.16

There are two classes of beings, the fallible and the infallible. In the material world every living entity is fallible (kshara), and in the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible (akshara).

 

In the purport to this verse Prabhupada says: "According to the statement of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Krishna, there are two classes of living entities. The Vedas give evidence of this, so there is no doubt about it."

 

This is confirmed by Lord Caitanya (CC Madhya 22.10-12)

 

"The living entities [jīvas] are divided into two categories. Some are eternally liberated, and others are eternally conditioned.

 

"Those who are eternally liberated are always awake to Krsna consciousness, and they render transcendental loving service at the feet of Lord Krsna. They are to be considered eternal associates of Krsna, and they are eternally enjoying the transcendental bliss of serving Krsna.

 

"Apart from the ever-liberated devotees, there are the conditioned souls, who always turn away from the service of the Lord. They are perpetually conditioned in this material world and are subjected to the material tribulations brought about by different bodily forms in hellish conditions."

 

Thus it is clear to me that your statements are false. I am accepting the above posted clear references as final.

[Beggar]

 

As Srila Prabhupada said this is from the "philosophical" angle of vision. There is also the angle of vision from our present temporary situation which has existed from time immemorial. But none of this precludes the conception of the tathastha shakti as the origin of the jiva soul. Siddhanta or devotional conclusion for Gaudiya Vaisnavas must take into account the super-excellent pristine existence of the parishads of Sri Krsna. Any philosophy, not withstanding apparently contradictory statements by Srila Prabhupada (for time, place and circumstance), that equates the fallen jivas with the parishads of Sri Krsna is eroneous and leads to the worship of Krsna, alone. This is what is considered "half-mayavada". I've made this point about 20 times in the last few months and not once has anyone on your side even attempted to comment on this! Also why your camp alledges that the philosophy that the jiva is manifested from the tatastha shakti is impersonalism has also never been explained.

I have some background in debate and also law. I was somewhat trained in the art of being able to take both sides of an argument. So I am trying to put myself in Svarupa or Sarva-gattah shoes and think as they are thinking to come up with at least a theorectical answer to the questions that I have posed. I must admit that I am having much difficulty in doing this. First I am assuming that tatastha, brahman and the brahmajyoti are all the same. we know that Srila Prabhupada has referred to brahman as "the impersonal brahman". Now I can understand that the desire and philosophy that makes merging with the impersonal brahman the goal of spiritual life would be impersonalism. I just can't come up with an argument that would at least in theory show how a philosophy that the living entities are manifested from brahman, the tatastha or the brahmajyoti would also be impersonalism. especially if you consider that the brahmajyoti is the effulgence of Krishna and his expansions, bodies. So I must say that I am stumped on this one.

Now the next question is that if all souls are really nitya-siddha or eternally perfect, since their conditioned state is actually almost eternal (but not quite), then if I apply this concept as the over-riding idea, will this preclude the special, holy position of the parishads of the Lord? Or maybe the real question is there any way to show that it does not? Again I am stumped, because such a concept seems to democratize the spiritual world. Not considering the levels of rasas it seems that if the only aspect of the Krsna Conscousness philosophy that one accepts is that all living entities are nitya-siddha or eternally liberated (just dreaming if they are not) then all the inhabitants of Goloka and the Vaikunthas who are not yet dreaming they are in Maha Maya could "fall" into this condition at any instant. I guess there could be some hierarchy in this conception like if one was a cowherd boy and had a father. I assume that the father would be considered superior by the son, but that's not really what we are discussing here. It seems that what the Sleeper-Vadis are saying is that since the dream takes place in time with it's past, present and future, that in the view of eternity it doesn't really happen at all. But if it doesn't happen at all, that would mean that the material world would be seen as false. Such a concept precludes the idea of yukta vairagya, that the material energy is real but temporary so it must be utilized in Krsna's service. Now maybe one of the pitfalls of Sleeper-Vada is that it does not take into account that variegated absolute Reality also has a relativity to It, albeit a spiritual relativity that is beyond duality. Just as the material world is governed by Maha Maya the spiritual world is governed by Yoga Maya. In the primitive conception of new devotees, especially ISKCON westerners, tendency to see the liberated jiva as a god (small god, big God). But the position of the servitors in Goloka and the Vaikunthas is just that, of servitors, not of gods or little controllers. The Sleeper-Vadis seem to somehow be precluded from the conception of lila and attraction towards it. They only want to ruminate in the dry conception that they are already liberated. If you look at the songs of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur and Narottama das Thakur you will see an entirely different mood. They describe themselves as fallen but we know that they are really in deep separation mood. It was Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu himself that was exhibiting such intense separation from Krsna especially in his Puri pastimes of antya lila. Do we hear of the Sleeper-Vadis discussing these things? Why not? How could you feel separation from Krsna if you are already with Krsna? Mood is everything in Krsna Consciousness and this is very much the wrong mood.

[Shakti-Fan]

... The Sleeper-Vadis seem to somehow be precluded from the conception of lila and attraction towards it. They only want to ruminate in the dry conception that they are already liberated. If you look at the songs of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur and Narottama das Thakur you will see an entirely different mood. They describe themselves as fallen but we know that they are really in deep separation mood. It was Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu himself that was exhibiting such intense separation from Krsna especially in his Puri pastimes of antya lila. Do we hear of the Sleeper-Vadis discussing these things? Why not? How could you feel separation from Krsna if you are already with Krsna? Mood is everything in Krsna Consciousness and this is very much the wrong mood.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Wow, Beggar!! I'm impressed!

 

Must be some *good* coffee this morning

 

 

I have some background in debate and also law. I was somewhat trained in the art of being able to take both sides of an argument. So I am trying to put myself in Svarupa or Sarva-gattah shoes and think as they are thinking to come up with at least a theorectical answer to the questions that I have posed. I must admit that I am having much difficulty in doing this. First I am assuming that tatastha, brahman and the brahmajyoti are all the same. we know that Srila Prabhupada has referred to brahman as "the impersonal brahman". Now I can understand that the desire and philosophy that makes merging with the impersonal brahman the goal of spiritual life would be impersonalism. I just can't come up with an argument that would at least in theory show how a philosophy that the living entities are manifested from brahman, the tatastha or the brahmajyoti would also be impersonalism. especially if you consider that the brahmajyoti is the effulgence of Krishna and his expansions, bodies. So I must say that I am stumped on this one.

Now the next question is that if all souls are really nitya-siddha or eternally perfect, since their conditioned state is actually almost eternal (but not quite), then if I apply this concept as the over-riding idea, will this preclude the special, holy position of the parishads of the Lord? Or maybe the real question is there any way to show that it does not? Again I am stumped, because such a concept seems to democratize the spiritual world. Not considering the levels of rasas it seems that if the only aspect of the Krsna Conscousness philosophy that one accepts is that all living entities are nitya-siddha or eternally liberated (just dreaming if they are not) then all the inhabitants of Goloka and the Vaikunthas who are not yet dreaming they are in Maha Maya could "fall" into this condition at any instant. I guess there could be some hierarchy in this conception like if one was a cowherd boy and had a father. I assume that the father would be considered superior by the son, but that's not really what we are discussing here. It seems that what the Sleeper-Vadis are saying is that since the dream takes place in time with it's past, present and future, that in the view of eternity it doesn't really happen at all. But if it doesn't happen at all, that would mean that the material world would be seen as false. Such a concept precludes the idea of yukta vairagya, that the material energy is real but temporary so it must be utilized in Krsna's service. Now maybe one of the pitfalls of Sleeper-Vada is that it does not take into account that variegated absolute Reality also has a relativity to It, albeit a spiritual relativity that is beyond duality. Just as the material world is governed by Maha Maya the spiritual world is governed by Yoga Maya. In the primitive conception of new devotees, especially ISKCON westerners, tendency to see the liberated jiva as a god (small god, big God). But the position of the servitors in Goloka and the Vaikunthas is just that, of servitors, not of gods or little controllers. The Sleeper-Vadis seem to somehow be precluded from the conception of lila and attraction towards it. They only want to ruminate in the dry conception that they are already liberated. If you look at the songs of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur and Narottama das Thakur you will see an entirely different mood. They describe themselves as fallen but we know that they are really in deep separation mood. It was Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu himself that was exhibiting such intense separation from Krsna especially in his Puri pastimes of antya lila. Do we hear of the Sleeper-Vadis discussing these things? Why not? How could you feel separation from Krsna if you are already with Krsna? Mood is everything in Krsna Consciousness and this is very much the wrong mood.

[Beggar]

 

How could you feel separation from Krsna if you are already with Krsna? Mood is everything in Krsna Consciousness and this is very much the wrong mood.

I guess the part quoted above was the main point. I've written similar posts before and then the Sleeper-Vadis go into hibernation and sometimes disappear for hours or even days. Has anyone else noticed this? Many new devotees in ISKCON come up with an understanding that is very close to Sleeper-Vada in their very early days of pursuing Krsna Consciousness. Later upon reading further in Srimad Bhagavatam and especially Caitanya Caritamrta, the intelligent ones see the pitfalls and contradictions in such thinking. If one doesn't grow out of such a neophyte understanding soon enough, then the thinking becomes calcified or fossilized. Srila Prabhupada wanted to engage as large an amount of the western population as possible in devotional service. If John Lennon would have come aboard, which he almost did, ISKCON would have been many, many times larger. Srila Prabhupada saw that many of his disciples and potential followers were in a Judeo-Christian mindset, along with impersonalism and he tailored his preaching to accommodate this situation. New devotees in ISKCON can't tell the difference between his preaching and his siddhanta and they really are not supposed to (transcendental trickery). But new devotees are supposed to mature and eventually at least, think like madhyama adhikaris.

The Sleeper-Vadis are prime examples of those who have imprisoned their own minds in the elementary classes of Srila Prabhupada's School. (time for Prabhupada's junior high or middle school, boys) The real topics of Krsna Consciousness like the separation mood of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu are of no interest to such persons.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

"Let's hear it for Hare Krishna"

 

--John Lennon (in "Give Peace a Chance")

[theist]

 

Originally Posted by Beggar

How could you feel separation from Krsna if you are already with Krsna? ...

 

 

Don't be so quick to pat your own back Beggar you may only injury your arm. Your opponents could ask you, "How could you feel separation from Krsna unless you had known Him before?"

And since no one says they are consciously with Krsna while in the material state of forgetfullness you are still arguing with a strawmen.

 

Who in this arguement will wise up (become exhausted) first and realize it is unsolvable from the mental platform. Office pool perhaps?

[Beggar]

Come out Mr. Sleeper-Vadi? Where are you? Please come out of your hole!

Mr. Beggar wants to Play!

("D", Come out of your hole!)

 

[Beggar]

 

Don't be so quick to pat your own back Beggar you may only injury your arm. Your opponents could ask you, "How could you feel separation from Krsna unless you had known Him before?"

And since no one says they are consciously with Krsna while in the material state of forgetfullness you are still arguing with a strawmen.

 

Who in this arguement will wise up (become exhausted) first and realize it is unsolvable from the mental platform. Office pool perhaps?

Yes, once again I am going over the edge. Thanks I need that!

[theist]

You are welcome. Please free yourself from this ridiculous debate brother. No good can come from it.

 

It takes two to tango as they say. Svarupa is on a misguided mission and will not stop. Neither will Guruvani. They need each other. It is up to you to choose to be entangled or free.

[Beggar]

 

Don't be so quick to pat your own back Beggar you may only injury your arm. Your opponents could ask you, "How could you feel separation from Krsna unless you had known Him before?"

And since no one says they are consciously with Krsna while in the material state of forgetfullness you are still arguing with a strawmen.

 

Who in this arguement will wise up (become exhausted) first and realize it is unsolvable from the mental platform. Office pool perhaps?

From The Krsna Book. Chapt 52

 

"These are the words of Princess Rukmini: 'My dear Krsna, O infallible and most beautiful one, any human being who happens to hear about Your transcendental form and pastimes immediately absorbs through his ears Your name, fame and qualities; thus all his material pangs subside, and he fixes Your form in his heart. Through such transcendental love for You, he sees You always within himself; and by this process all his desires become fulfilled. Similarly, I have heard of Your transcendental qualities. I may be shameless in expressing myself so directly, but You have captivated me and taken my heart. You may suspect that I am an unmarried girl, young in age, and may dobut my steadiness of character, but my dear Mukunda, You are the supreme lion among the human beings, the supreme person among persons. Any girl, although not yet out of her home, or any woman who may be of the highest chastity, would desire to marry You, being captivated by Your unprecedented character, knowledge, opulence and position. I know that You are the husband of the goddess of fortune and that You are very kind toward Your devotees; therefore I have decided to become Your eternal maidservant. My dear Lord, I dedicate my life and soul unto Your lotus feet. I have accepted Your Lordship as my selected husband, and I therefore request You to accept me as Your wife. You are the supreme powerful, O lotus-eyed one. Now I belong to You. If that which is enjoyable for the lion to eat is taken away by the jackal, it will be a ludicrous affair; therefore I request You to immediately take care of me before I am taken away by Sisupala and other princes like him.

[theist]

Yeah??? Attachment comes by hearing. The point is that attachment can also be called re-attachment.

 

It is a stalemate arguemnt. That is all I am trying to show you.

[Beggar]

 

Yeah??? Attachment comes by hearing. The point is that attachment can also be called re-attachment.

 

It is a stalemate arguemnt. That is all I am trying to show you.

 

That be true boss. Rukmini's relationship with Krsna is eternal. That's why this is all on the mental platform. We only really "know' when we are on the real spiritual platform. But we can also accept the truth when we hear from authorities like Srila Sridhar Maharaj and then understand Srila Prabhupada's teachings in proper perspective. Accepting and realizing are different things entirely.

[Beggar]

 

Come out Mr. Sleeper-Vadi? Where are you? Please come out of your hole!

Mr. Beggar wants to Play!

("D", Come out of your hole!)

 

 

Pretty Please:crying2:

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Come out Mr. Sleeper-Vadi? Where are you? Please come out of your hole!

Mr. Beggar wants to Play!

("D", Come out of your hole!)

 

Who the hell is "D" ? Your Matta?

[theist]

Playing tag with moles means you also will spend much time running through little tunnels underground in the darkness. Have fun.