Is it Aparadha if you don't worship Prabhupada's Godbrothers equally with Krishna?

[suchandra]

 

Is this a Vaishnava forum? I didn't know that. Thanks for enlightening me. I was always under the impression that this was a generic Hindu/Vedic place for the exchange of ideas. But you've burst my blissfully ignorant bubble, buddy. Cheers for that.

 

Just one thing, though. If you Vaishnavas consider yourselves to be a cult, separate from the mainstream Hindu populace (except for the times when you run to us shamelessly begging for funds to finance your Ratha Yatras and Janmashtami celebrations), why has Parker dedicated such a monumental part of his Indiadivine site to things distinctly non-Gaudiya Vaishnava (Maha Shivaratri, Trailanga Baba, Swami Sivananda and so forth)? It seems to me that these forums are open to everyone, and going by the many topics under discussion here, I find it more than obvious that this is NOT just a Hare Krishna spot.

It is forum 35 http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/forum35/

But you can also post here, you're welcome in all the forums.

[suchandra]

Is this a Vaishnava forum? I didn't know that.

Well guess you're right, quite often I also ask this question.

[gHari]

 

Is it aparadha...

 

 

 

That's all fine and dandy but I was under the understanding that you are supposed to be somewhat careful in who you put on the same level as Krishna and apparently at one time Prabhupada's own guru said his godbrothers were not on that level. Maybe they have now achieved that level I don't know as I am barely just learning about them. I guess that makes me a fence sitter.

And I think that's fine. I'm on the fence too; I can't put everyone in the same box. I don't bow down until my body bows down. Sometimes I don't even know until after why I did. Certainly I won't fool Krsna by trying to be something I'm not.

[Yofu]

I never thought I'd see the day Gurvani would praise Srila Narayana, but word of warning to him and others...the problems that Iskcon went through will be repeated in Srila Narayana Maharaja's sanga as the seeds have been planted by dishonest "devotees" who are jockying for positions within that sanga.

 

I see several high profile devotees within the sanga readying themselves for the prize of "guruship". There is alot of politics at "managment" level which reminds me of early GBC politics. I speak as a former insider....

 

Srila Narayana Mahraja is bona fide, but the organisation? Funny, how history often repeats itself.....

[Beggar]

 

Srila Narayana Mahraja is bona fide, but the organisation? Funny, how history often repeats itself.....

Srila Sridhar Maharaj would often refer to the "absolute conception and the relative consideration. This is a perfect example of it in "the enervating environment of the material plane".

[Yofu]

That's such a lovely quote from Srila Sridhara Maharaja....

[AncientMariner]

 

I never thought I'd see the day Gurvani would praise Srila Narayana, but word of warning to him and others...the problems that Iskcon went through will be repeated in Srila Narayana Maharaja's sanga as the seeds have been planted by dishonest "devotees" who are jockying for positions within that sanga.

 

I see several high profile devotees within the sanga readying themselves for the prize of "guruship". There is alot of politics at "managment" level which reminds me of early GBC politics. I speak as a former insider....

 

Srila Narayana Mahraja is bona fide, but the organisation? Funny, how history often repeats itself.....

 

That was a question I was just gonna ask. I assume Narayana Maharaja is a fairly elderly gentleman so I was wondering if there is someone in line to be his successor. Guruvani now accepts Nayarana Maharaja as Prabhupada's successor who is he gonna switch to when Narayana Maharaja moves on? Just kidding, the more I read about Narayana Maharaja the more I am starting to see brahmanical qualities in him although I confess my interactions in the past with some Narayana Maharaja disciples has been sort of like interacting with a Borg drone. Basically on the level of "you will be assimilated."

[Shakti-Fan]

 

I assume Narayana Maharaja is a fairly elderly gentleman so I was wondering if there is someone in line to be his successor.

 

A Brief Excerpt From The Publication Entitled "The True Conception Of Sri Guru Tattva" by Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja,

 

No sad-guru ever makes anyone a guru or an acarya by force. Rather, by rendering service to his sad-guru, becoming well versed in krsna-tattva, realizing ParaBrahman and becoming detached from the material sense objects, a sad-sisya himself attains the qualifications of a guru by his guru’s mercy. He doesn’t need any stamp or registration for this. On the other hand, we sometimes see the fall-down of a guru who is appointed as successor by his guru. If a sad-guru declares or appoints his qualified successor then it is indeed proper, and if he doesn’t., there is still no harm. The guru-parampara will continue to exist either way.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

"Faschist", eh? Very educated.

 

"Real world"? So you are a professional cheater?

 

I work for the government. Is that "real world" enough for you?

 

Despite spending way too much time trying to cast pearls before swine such as yourself, I've managed to write a new agenda creation and publishing system (with streaming audio) for our Clerk of the Board, an evidence submission and document-encryption system for our Sheriff's office, a web-scraping XML generator for our District Attorney, and I troubleshoot many of the day-to-day IT emergencies for our organization.

 

Just what are *your* credentials again?

 

 

I travel and move in professional circles frequented by educated, professional, upper middle-class persons who could for sure teach you one or two things about social etiquette.

 

...

 

Keep your faschist dogmas on the issues I mentioned therein to yourself. They only make sense to you and your ilk, not those like myself who live in the real world.

[AncientMariner]

 

A Brief Excerpt From The Publication Entitled "The True Conception Of Sri Guru Tattva" by Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja,

"No sad-guru ever makes anyone a guru or an acarya by force. Rather, by rendering service to his sad-guru, becoming well versed in krsna-tattva, realizing ParaBrahman and becoming detached from the material sense objects, a sad-sisya himself attains the qualifications of a guru by his guru’s mercy. He doesn’t need any stamp or registration for this. On the other hand, we sometimes see the fall-down of a guru who is appointed as successor by his guru. If a sad-guru declares or appoints his qualified successor then it is indeed proper, and if he doesn’t., there is still no harm. The guru-parampara will continue to exist either way."

 

 

 

 

I always figured all those people worried about the parampara coming to an end were missing the big picture.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

I always figured all those people worried about the parampara coming to an end were missing the big picture.

 

Devotee: So we have to associate with a living sadhu?

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Definitely. There is always one there. But he is not a cheap person. Such a person is very rare. If you can get his mercy then you can see him. Otherwise, by your own effort and perception you cannot see him. No, no, no. You always think that you are drasta, the seer, and that the sadhu is drsta, the one to be seen. Everyone is like this. They think they are the seers. But it is just the reverse. You are to are to be seen and they are the seer! Think this over very deeply. I think you cannot completely understand what I say. We always think that we are the seer and that they are to be seen, but this is not a fact. It is just the reverse. They are the seers and we are to be seen.

[AncientMariner]

 

Devotee: So we have to associate with a living sadhu?

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Definitely. There is always one there. But he is not a cheap person. Such a person is very rare. If you can get his mercy then you can see him. Otherwise, by your own effort and perception you cannot see him. No, no, no. You always think that you are drasta, the seer, and that the sadhu is drsta, the one to be seen. Everyone is like this. They think they are the seers. But it is just the reverse. You are to are to be seen and they are the seer! Think this over very deeply. I think you cannot completely understand what I say. We always think that we are the seer and that they are to be seen, but this is not a fact. It is just the reverse. They are the seers and we are to be seen.

 

 

Oh, here we go on the living guru issue again. I will withdraw from this conversation because there is now some cordiality between myself and Narayana Maharaja devotees. I consider you guys as friends but am not interested in rehashing the living guru debate.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Oh, here we go on the living guru issue again. I will withdraw from this debate because there is now some cordiality between myself and Narayana Maharaja devotees. I consider you guys friends now but am not interested in rehashing the living guru debate.

Then look at the way Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja structures his thesis. It's up to an individual whether or not they wish to associate with a sadhu. The interesting thing here is how he explains the "seer" and the "seen". This connects with the idea of how the parampara is always continuing. The guru is always there but can we see him?

[Beggar]

Sridhar Maharaj,

Subjective Evolution of Consciousness - Consciousness is not a product of the world; the world is a product of consciousness.

[Svarupa]

 

Sridhar Maharaj,

Subjective Evolution of Consciousness - Consciousness is not a product of the world; the world is a product of consciousness.

 

As Prabhupada says "all matter comes from life"

[CCC]

 

On the other hand, we sometimes see the fall-down of a guru who is appointed as successor by his guru. If a sad-guru declares or appoints his qualified successor then it is indeed proper, and if he doesn’t., there is still no harm. The guru-parampara will continue to exist either way.

 

Is there an example of this in the whole parampara of pure gurus?

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Is there an example of this in the whole parampara of pure gurus?

Can you be more specific about your question? What exactly do you disagree with?

[CCC]

 

Can you be more specific about your question? What exactly do you disagree with?

 

Hi Shakti Fan

 

is there an example in the history of the parampara where a guru fall down?

[Beggar]

 

Hi Shakti Fan

 

is there an example in the history of the parampara where a guru fall down?

There's the relative and the absolute. From a relative point of view Vasudeva Prabhu fell down. From the absolute viewpoint he was never guru.

[Shakti-Fan]

There's the relative and the absolute. From a relative point of view Vasudeva Prabhu fell down. From the absolute viewpoint he was never guru.

I will have to concur with this explanation. If someone takes disciples and then returns to sinful life then it shows that he was never qualified and therefore not bonafide to begin with.

[Guruvani]

Unfit gurus are accepted by unfit disciples.

[Vikram Ramsundar]

 

"Faschist", eh? Very educated.

 

"Real world"? So you are a professional cheater?

 

I work for the government. Is that "real world" enough for you?

 

Despite spending way too much time trying to cast pearls before swine such as yourself, I've managed to write a new agenda creation and publishing system (with streaming audio) for our Clerk of the Board, an evidence submission and document-encryption system for our Sheriff's office, a web-scraping XML generator for our District Attorney, and I troubleshoot many of the day-to-day IT emergencies for our organization.

 

Just what are *your* credentials again?

 

You ask a question, you bloody allow the other person the opportunity to reply to you. I have a million occupations to attend to, and it is not practical for me to keep checking whether some good-for-nothing mindless moron is continuously responding to what I post here. I can only do so in my own time.

 

You wanted to know *my* credentials. I'll happily oblige. I am a Chartered Certified Accountant, which is a British equivalent to your American CPA qualification. I studied in London and equally did my practical training over there, with a firm of accountants and auditors. I now live and work in my native Mauritius as a senior finance executive in the transportation industry.

 

For the record, only swines are base enough to refer to others as such, and please, spare me the pearls that you think you've got. They'll come in handy for you; I hadn't realised that I was so important. My postings are really driving up your BP, aren't they?

[Murali_Mohan_das]

An experienced cheater. My suspicions are confirmed.

 

Cheers!

 

You do nothing to my blood pressure. My *kids*, on the other hand...

 

 

You ask a question, you bloody allow the other person the opportunity to reply to you. I have a million occupations to attend to, and it is not practical for me to keep checking whether some good-for-nothing mindless moron is continuously responding to what I post here. I can only do so in my own time.

 

You wanted to know *my* credentials. I'll happily oblige. I am a Chartered Certified Accountant, which is a British equivalent to your American CPA qualification. I studied in London and equally did my practical training over there, with a firm of accountants and auditors. I now live and work in my native Mauritius as a senior finance executive in the transportation industry.

 

For the record, only swines are base enough to refer to others as such, and please, spare me the pearls that you think you've got. They'll come in handy for you; I hadn't realised that I was so important. My postings are really driving up your BP, aren't they?

[Vikram Ramsundar]

 

An experienced cheater. My suspicions are confirmed.

 

Cheers!

 

You do nothing to my blood pressure. My *kids*, on the other hand...

 

An experienced cheater? Why? You're speaking about how I earn my daily bread in pejorative terms, and this is not nice.

 

It is high time to bury the hatchet. You have your take on existence and I have mine. To each his own, with tolerance of diversity and difference being the operative idea.

[Sarva gattah]

 

Unfit gurus are accepted by unfit disciples.

 

Clever saying and very true, its the duty of a seeker of truth to test their Guru and not blindly follow