The Letter

[suchandra]

 

This type of extreme fanaticism is only seen in destructive sects, where instructions from leaders are followed blindly by people who gave up their own better judgement and common sense.

 

The ill will of a large segment of Prabhupada's disciples towards his godbrothers and Gaudiya Matha in general is at least partially caused by Prabhupada's own attitudes towards his peers, such as expressed in the above quoted letter. Because many of his followers are accustomed to blind following and not thinking for themselves, this old feud continues, to the dismay and embarassement of many Vaishnavas on both sides of the barricade that SP built. Like Hathfields and McCoys, the feud is passed on the new generations. It is actually completely absurd.

 

Also, quite frankly, I dont see why Prabhupada was so hard on his godbrothers. He banned Bon Maharaja's books for example, not because they were off philosophically, but because he just did not like him as a person. Prabhupada criticized just about everybody at one time or another, often quite impulsively, but on other occasions he showed deep appreciation for his godbrothers. Too bad so many of his disciples just concentrate on the negatives.

 

Interesting revelations and speculations of a material mind.

[sevabhakta]

 

Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami: This is my earnest desire. Since you could not go around the world and preach, at least stay there and people will come to you. I shall make that arrangement. If you stay, then it will be helpful to me also. Sometimes I need to consult with someone but there is no one. There is no one that I can consult. I feel this deficiency very greatly.

 

 

Bhaktivedanta Swami: So, both of us will stay in that house. Most of the time I am travelling around, so if you are there, then they can get some guidance. So, Maharaj, please, give me the order and I will make all the arrangements for you. That Planetarium [The "Temple of Understanding"] also will be built under your direction.

 

 

Curious how CBrahma ignored these two public statements made in 1977 3 years after the letter to Rupanuga.

 

They directly clear up any issue about association with Srila Sridhara Maharaja.

 

Hare Krsna

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Instant Karma

by John Lennon

 

Instant karmas gonna get you

Gonna knock you right on the head

You better get yourself together

Pretty soon youre gonna be dead

What in the world you thinking of

Laughing in the face of love

What on earth you tryin to do

Its up to you, yeah you

 

Instant karmas gonna get you

Gonna look you right in the face

Better get yourself together darlin

Join the human race

How in the world you gonna see

Laughin at fools like me

Who in the hell dyou think you are

A super star

Well, right you are

 

Well we all shine on

Like the moon and the stars and the sun

Well we all shine on

Evryone come on

 

Instant karmas gonna get you

Gonna knock you off your feet

Better recognize your brothers

Evryone you meet

Why in the world are we here

Surely not to live in pain and fear

Why on earth are you there

When youre evrywhere

Come and get your share

 

Well we all shine on

Like the moon and the stars and the sun

Yeah we all shine on

Come on and on and on on on

Yeah yeah, alright, uh huh, ah

 

Well we all shine on

Like the moon and the stars and the sun

Yeah we all shine on

On and on and on on and on

 

Well we all shine on

Like the moon and the stars and the sun

Well we all shine on

Like the moon and the stars and the sun

Well we all shine on

Like the moon and the stars and the sun

Yeah we all shine on

Like the moon and the stars and the sun

[CCC]

 

 

 

Curious how CBrahma ignored these two public statements made in 1977 3 years after the letter to Rupanuga.

 

They directly clear up any issue about association with Srila Sridhara Maharaja.

 

Hare Krsna

 

and where are the tapes? is the third time I ask this question and no one reply

 

who has heard them?

[stonehearted]

That conversation was in Bengali, from what I understand. The translation we have is by ISKCON's Bhakti Charu Swami. Just because you don't have a tape of something Srila Prabhupada said does not mean he didn't say it. I have recordings of several talks he gave in Hawaii that are not on the VedaBase or available fom any audio ministry. I've given them to the Bhaktivedanta Archives, but I have no idea when, or if, they'll be made available. However, that doesn't bother me.

[Beggar]

 

and where are the tapes? is the third time I ask this question and no one reply

 

who has heard them?

I don't know where the tapes are, maybe the GBC destroyed what they had in '81. I do know that there were other copies. Perhaps Sripad B.G Narasimha Maharaj has copies. His website is: www.vtweb.com/gosai/chaitanya/index.html

He certainly must have the transcripts.

[Beggar]

Also I'm sure that at one time Sripad Bhakti Caru Maharaja had them. In '80-'81 no westerner could go to see Srila Sridhar Maharaja without going through Caru Maharaj or his associate at the Bhaktivedanta Institute in Calcutta, Sripad Sarvabhavana Prabhu. When the GBC gave their ultimatum in '81 both of these men who were acting like disciples of Srila Sridhar Maharaj stuck with ISKCON. The B.V. Institute there was very opulent by Bengali standards. They chose the money instead of the Bhagavatam. I'm not condemning them, but it was a very sad time. Three years later I met up with Caru Maharaja in L.A. and there he was wearing his expensive top grade silks with a freshly shaved head surrounded by neophyte sychophants for he had become, in return for his "loyalty" a GBC rubber stamped guru. The expression on his face belied the fact that he was very miserable, indeed.

[cbrahma]

 

 

 

Curious how CBrahma ignored these two public statements made in 1977 3 years after the letter to Rupanuga.

 

They directly clear up any issue about association with Srila Sridhara Maharaja.

 

Hare Krsna

What's there to clear up? Prabhupada's words are as clear as can be. The rest is interpretation based on a tape conversation that nobody has bothered to corroborate. What is the implication? That in a few short years circumstances turned around so radically as to have Prabhupada completely reverse his decision. No. That is interpretation. I see nothing in the conversation but the cordiality of one brother toward another. Nothing to do with his disciples approaching him.

[cbrahma]

 

I understand Srila Prabhupada's intentions and the situation he was in, but at this point in my life I can't help but feel that these statements went too far and as a result ISKCON is paying a high price.

 

This whole idea that we should respect Jesus and Mohammed but reject and abuse the Godbrothers of Srila Prabhupada just doesn't fly with me anymore.

 

Srila Prabhupada has written in his books that at times he was perplexed about how to exactly spread the KC movement.

 

I think in his perplexity he issued dated statements that eventually came back to bite ISKCON in the ass as a flock of Vaishnava aparadhis were produced out of a shallow and bigoted concept of Krishna consciousness.

 

I also think that to bring up these old letters today, some 30 years after the passing of Srila Prabhupada is a disgrace, an offense and a miserable attempt to justify the selfish ambitions of a class of neophyte ISKCON leaders who couldn't find their own ass if their life depended on it.

 

These letters are simply a disturbance to the progressive advancement of the KC movement that is also the right, the duty and the legacy of all of Srila Prabhupada's sincere Godbrothers.

 

These statements were simply a form of martial law that was enforced during a time of crisis.

When the crisis is over, the martial law must be lifted and freedom restored.

 

ISKCON wants to live under martial law forever.

However, that way of thinking is simply keeping ISKCON in shackles as the greater Gaudiya Vaishnava society expands all over the world leaving ISKCON in the dust of days gone by.

I posted no such thing.

I will be lodging a complaint.

[cbrahma]

 

You are talking out your ass now.

Anyone with a little intelligence can understand that.

Even the GBC eventually came to accept that recent instructions out-date previous instructions.

 

Your asinine position does not represent the GBC or Srila Prabhupada.

It represents a puffed-up fool who is protecting his pride and his false ego.

It's hardly a position nor is it asinine to quote Prabhupada's intentions. In fact I got it off of the Sampradaya Sun and it got past the editor.

Your need to out-date what is clear in favor of what is not points to your asinine politicking. You are so desperate in your obfuscating bias as to conjure up something I never said.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

In fact I got it off of the Sampradaya Sun and it got past the editor.

 

You got *that* off the Sampradaya Sun, and I got *this* off the Sun:

 

http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2256.htm

 

 

In my previous Sun editorial entitled, “For Philosophy, My Godbrother B.R. Sridhara Maharaja of Navadwipa”, I evidenced (I believe beyond a reasonable doubt) that Srila Prabhupada had a very intimate relationship with B.R. Sridhara Maharaja, culminating with Srila Prabhupada distinguishing B.R. Sridhara Maharaja by telling his disciples that after his disappearance they could go to him for philosophy.

Now I read in a Sun editorial by Mahesh Raja that he has concluded from analyzing one letter that B.R. Sridhara Maharaja could not have been a prema bhakta, a pure devotee. Taking into consideration all that he wrote and said about Sridhara Maharaja, this judgment contradicts what Srila Prabhupada explicitly expressed about the transcendental position of B.R. Sridhara Maharaja. Apart from his guru, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, there is no associate that Srila Prabhupada spoke of so highly.

 

 

I've told you before what I think about the Sun's editor-in-chief (to which you had no reply). To his credit, he strikes me as sincere, and open-minded, if somewhat misguided (kind of like you, minus the open-minded part).

[cbrahma]

 

I've told you before what I think about the Sun's editor-in-chief (to which you had no reply). To his credit, he strikes me as sincere, and open-minded, if somewhat misguided (kind of like you, minus the open-minded part).

It was very open minded of you to quote your own article. LOL.

I missed that post. But you need not. I know the editor-in-chief personally. In fact he was my temple president in Canada.

I apparently have been so close-minded as to have published something on this forum from his own paper.

The only thing that is unambiguous and non-controversial is the letter. Everything else is racked with controversy. I will stay with what is clear and unquestionable.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Pure speculation. I've never been published in the Sun. I think I've had one article published on Chakra (and another, about my friend Ananda (McClure) rejected for being too politically-incorrect).

 

 

It was very open minded of you to quote your own article. LOL.

[cbrahma]

Since Sridhara Maharaja has already left his body, much of this is moot, except for those who would collect under the banner of the Math vs Iskcon. How pointless and such bad example to boot.

[cbrahma]

 

Pure speculation. I've never been published in the Sun. I think I've had one article published on Chakra (and another, about my friend Ananda (McClure) rejected for being too politically-incorrect).

Then you should have cited the author referred to "In my previous Sun editorial"

It invites speculation otherwise.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Then you should have cited the author referred to "In my previous Sun editorial"

It invites speculation otherwise.

 

You're easily confused if you assume that a person quoting somebody speaking in the first-person must be that person.

 

In any case, as you say, in the case of Param-Gurudev Srila Sridhar Maharaja, this is a moot point. However, unlike our Srila Prabhupada, Srila Sridhar Maharaja *very clearly* appointed a successor. For anybody with any affection for Srila Sridhar Maharaja, Srila Govinda Maharaja is at least siksha guru.

[stonehearted]

 

Then you should have cited the author referred to "In my previous Sun editorial"

It invites speculation otherwise.

Anyone who clicks on the link will see my Godbrother Brahma's name on the byline. No confusion there: Murali's in his 30s and initiated by Govinda Maharaja, and Brahma is in his 50s and initiated by Srila Prabhupada.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

I believe Brahma Prabhu is also our former landlord (and a very sweet devotee like yourself).

 

 

Anyone who clicks on the link will see my Godbrother Brahma's name on the byline. No confusion there: Murali's in his 30s and initiated by Govinda Maharaja, and Brahma is in his 50s and initiated by Srila Prabhupada.

[Svarupa]

Quote:cbrahma

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>" ACTUALLY AMONGST MY GODBROTHERS NO ONE IS QUALIFIED TO BECOME ACARYA. SO IT IS BETTER NOT TO MIX WITH MY GODBROTHERS VERY INTIMATELY BECAUSE INSTEAD OF INSPIRING OUR STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES THEY MAY SOMETIMES POLLUTE THEM. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them."

 

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Read carefully

 

Hence - We can understand in 2007 why NOW all these letters are being brought out to PROTECT ISKCON from any further pre-emptive strikes against ISKCONs devotees from the present mundane version of the Gaudiya math. In Australia Ramai Swami and Aniruddha Dasa the Temple President is very protective about the 'other camp', as Ramai Maharaj calls them. He doesn't say much, he just avoids them and is always polite and jolly if he crosses their path. He just makes sure no more devotees are lost to the Gaudya math who Srila Prabhupada told his disciples and grand disciples to avoid

[Svarupa]

Well, we have all been warned!

 

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Srila Prabhupada "ACTUALLY AMONGST MY GODBROTHERS NO ONE IS QUALIFIED TO BECOME ACARYA. SO IT IS BETTER NOT TO MIX WITH MY GODBROTHERS VERY INTIMATELY BECAUSE INSTEAD OF INSPIRING OUR STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES THEY MAY SOMETIMES POLLUTE THEM. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them." Rupanuga, April 28, 1974.<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

 

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[Shakti-Fan]

 

Well, we have all been warned, Fortunately ISKCON Temples are doing the right thing and avoidng the Gaudiya math, most are very humble and nice about it - they just ignore them, don't give them the time of day and protect their Temple devotees from them.

You're living in the past Swaupa das Sleeper-Vadi. Fifty per cent of the non-Indian members of the non-Iskcon Krsna Consciousness Movement are former Iskcon members. Almost all the others had at least some contact with Iskcon or Srila Prabhupada's books before joining a non-Iskcon Gaudiya society. Any one who goes to India at festival time can verify that Iskcon is now in the minority amongst westerners and Russians etc. Every day devotees leave Iskcon and affiliate with Gaudiya Math derived missions in this big world of ours but visa versa is almost unheard of. For the most part this phenomena has plateaued, except when Iskcon gurus falldown or are caught in scandals, but this is not so infrequent. In Alachua, The Tennessee farm and in other North American Iskcon centers devotees who are initiated by non-Iskcon gurus are accepted and do key services. I'm sure that this is true in other places as well. Many of these devotees were previously initiated by Iskcon gurus, despite the GBC laws. Your fighting to keep the cat in the bag but he's been out for a long, long time. The bottom line is that Srila Prabhupada made statements that were both pro and con about his godbrothers. It is the pro statements and the absurd policies of the GBC including the OOP that have in a combined way led to what amounts to a large exodus from Iskcon to other Gaudiya Missions.

 

[Shakti-Fan]

 

You're living in the past Swaupa das Sleeper-Vadi. Fifty per cent of the non-Indian members of the non-Iskcon Krsna Consciousness Movement are former Iskcon members. Almost all the others had at least some contact with Iskcon or Srila Prabhupada's books before joining a non-Iskcon Gaudiya society. Anyone who goes to India at festival time can verify that Iskcon is now in the minority amongst westerners and Russians etc. Every day devotees leave Iskcon and affiliate with Gaudiya Math derived missions in this big world of ours but visa versa is almost unheard of. For the most part this phenomena has plateaued, except when Iskcon gurus falldown or are caught in scandals, but this is not so infrequent. In Alachua, The Tennessee farm and in other North American Iskcon centers devotees who are initiated by non-Iskcon gurus are accepted and do key services. I'm sure that this is true in other places as well. Many of these devotees were previously initiated by Iskcon gurus, despite the GBC laws. Your fighting to keep the cat in the bag but he's been out for a long, long time. The bottom line is that Srila Prabhupada made statements that were both pro and con about his godbrothers. It is the pro statements and the absurd policies of the GBC including the OOP that have in a combined way led to what amounts to a large exodus from Iskcon to other Gaudiya Missions.

 

[Svarupa]

Read carefully

Hence - We can understand in 2007 why NOW all these letters are being brought out to PROTECT ISKCON from any further pre-emptive strikes against ISKCONs devotees from the present mundane version of the Gaudiya math. In Australia Ramai Swami and Aniruddha Dasa the Temple President is very protective about the 'other camp', as Ramai Maharaj calls them. He doesn't say much, he just avoids them and is always polite and jolly if he crosses their path. He just makes sure no more devotees are lost to the Gaudya math who Srila Prabhupada told his disciples and grand disciples to avoid

 

[Beggar]

 

He just makes sure no more devotees are lost to the Gaudya math who Srila Prabhupada told his disciples and grand disciples to avoid

 

Right now ISKCON is training up many new people who will be "lost to the Gaudiya Math." Generally these will be the intelligent persons who cannot with a clear conscience accept the contradictions in both the Sleeper-Vada and Fall-Vada apasiddhantas. Those newer devotees on the brink will be pushed over the edge as they see ISKCON gurus fall and bite the dust. Also many ISKCON devotees have internet access and are inquisitive. The ISKCON mind control tactics of the past no longer work. What has happened in the last twenty-six years is a good indicator as to what will happen in the near future.

[theist]

 

Hi. I'm very new here. What kind of forum is this, anyway?

 

It is supposed to be about Spitirtual Discussions but most seem to mistake talking about and rehashing old news about religious institutions as Spiritual Discussions.

 

It is something like discussing the Catholic Church endlessly while ignoring the teaching of Christ.

 

I am sorry.