The Letter

[BhaktiK]

 

Vaisnava history tells us that after Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati’s departure, His senior disciples decided to reinstate the guru parampara. Narayana Maharaja’s own Spiritual Master, along with his fellow Gaudiya Matha spiritual masters, re-instituted the concept of guru parampara – but they did not do so on the authorization of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. In fact, they reinstated a guru parampara system that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta had essentially rejected.

 

I doubt this Rocana was even born when the Gaudiya Math breakup happened in 1940 or so.

 

Anyhow, cbrahma, you started this thread with THE LETTER and then you posted other stuff too, such as this statement:

 

Srila Prabhupada's Room Conversation, April 22, 1977, Bombay

 

Srila Prabhupada's Room Conversation, June 18, 1976, Toronto

Prabhupada: Daily night. And he was shocked. ONE OF MY GAUDIYA MATHA GODBROTHERS, BIG, HE BECAME THE HEAD OF THIS BHAG BAZAAR GAUDIYA MATHA. So his wife was debauched, and she was bringing new paramour, and the child protested.

Pusta Krsna: New?

Prabhupada: Paramour. And the boy, he was ten years or twelve years old, he could understand: "Who is this man?" So he protested and said, "I shall tell all these things to my father." And he was killed.

Pusta Krsna: The boy was killed?

Prabhupada: By the mother.

Hari-sauri: She murdered him?

Prabhupada: Yes. Killed means given poison. And the father, that is, my Godbrother, seeing this, he also took poison. This is the end of Gaudiya Matha scandal. He was also one of the trustees. This Tirtha Maharaja was a trustee, and another Godbrother and this man. In the beginning, they were made trustees. In the beginning, Prabhupada was to undergo surgical operation. So he was a little nervous, that "I may die." So he made a scrap paper, that "In case I die, these three disciples will be trustees of the Gaudiya Matha Institute." That's all. So this Kunja Babu kept this. There are many long histories. SO ONE OF THE SO-CALLED TRUSTEES WAS THIS VASUDEVA. So he died, his end was like this.

Pusta Krsna: His son was killed, isn't it?

Prabhupada: His wife was a regular prostitute, and she killed her child, and on this shock, he took poison and died.

Pusta Krsna: He killed himself, oh.

Prabhupada: Naturally, he became shocked, that "This is my family life--the wife is prostitute and son is killed. What is the value of my life?" This was his spiritual realization. Just see. (laughs) AND HE WAS MADE THE CHIEF, AND ONE OF THE SUPPORTER WAS SRIDHARA MAHARAJA.

Pusta Krsna: Vasudeva Sridhara?

Prabhupada: No, no. He was made chief. Guru Maharaja did not make him chief. But after his passing away, some of our Godbrothers voted him chief.

Pusta Krsna: Am I mis...? You had told me once, I'm not certain. Maybe I made a mistake. YOU SAID THAT VASUDEVA, IT WAS KNOWN FACT THAT HE WAS HOMOSEX?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pusta Krsna: Vasudeva.

Prabhupada: HE WAS HOMOSEX AND SEX, EVERYTHING

 

 

Srila Prabhupada says

 

 

Prabhupada: No, no. He was made chief. Guru Maharaja did not make him chief. But after his passing away, some of our Godbrothers voted him chief.

 

 

It is a fact that Srila Sridhar Maharaj was not a GBC member and that he DID NOT VOTE for Anantavasudeva.

 

Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami says, of Anantavasudeva, "HE WAS MADE THE CHIEF, AND ONE OF THE SUPPORTER WAS SRIDHARA MAHARAJA." (your capital letters)

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj didn't vote and he said he would agree with whatever decision THE DECISION MAKERS MADE.

 

You could call him a supporter I suppose. But then I could also say that for several years Srila Abhay Charan Babu was a "supporter" of Srila Sridhar Maharaj. It is a fact that Srila Abhay Charan Babu sent his own sister Pishima to take initiation from Srila Sridhar Maharaj.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj never had anything to do with politics, management or financial administration. He was not a "secretary" either. He was a sannyasi who Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur told to engage in preaching. Not managing.

 

Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami said that he was living aloof after the Gaudiya Math breakup but that isn't entirely accurate either.

 

He rented a three storey building in Sita-Banerjee Lane in Calcutta, and had a chemists shop on the ground floor where he did business. On the middle floor, Abhay Babu lived with his family. On the top floor there was a Math, a temple, and Srila Sridhar Maharaj was the Guru in that Math upstairs. The successor of Srila Sridhar Maharaj, Srila Govinda Maharaj, at that time a boy, was maintaining the worship at that temple. Srila Govinda Maharaj lived in that house with Abhay Babu and his family for five years, and in that time Abhay Babu began his back to Godhead magazine and guess who was the first "book distributor" of BTG? This boy who became "Srila Govinda Maharaj".

 

This boy who is Srila Sridhar Maharaj's appointed successor and the Guru of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math lived for more than five years with Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. I would like to ask you, cbrahma, how much time did you spend with Srila Prabhupada?

[cbrahma]

 

Yes, but Guruvani goes to the heart of the matter (which you seem so desperate to avoid).

 

If one has any sincerity and taste and listens to what Srila Sridhar Maharaja has to say, it's simply *impossible* to *not* be captivated by his beautiful expression of the Krishna Conception.

My feeling for Sridar Maharaja is not contingent on mY affection for Prabhupada. There are many Prabhupada disciples who don't even have any knowledge of Sridar Maharaja who have no feelings about him.

It's really sentimental and offensive to automatically decide that these disciples don't have any feelings about Prabhupada.

[cbrahma]

 

You've petulantly ignored the ample evidence provided by BhaktiK and others here.

 

Srila Prabhupada was very kind. He insisted on almost nothing. He *invited* us to join in the Sankirttan Movement of Sriman Mahaprabhu to the extent that we had capacity to do so. As was his own Guru Maharaja's mood, he was so very accomodating.

 

You, however insist on playing the fool.

Inconclusive ample evidence.

[cbrahma]

 

Well, I am not going to address the point because I am not the one who made the allegations.

I assume you have great respect and appreciation for Srila Prabhupada.

It appears though that you might be quite fanatic about it and minimizing other Vaishnavas because you think Srila Prabhupada is the only real Vaishnava.

 

When I heard the teachings of Srila Sridhar Maharaja I had never heard any statements about Sridhar Maharaja one way or the other.

I was just a small-time brahmachary in the Chicago ISKCON temple.

 

By the time I had heard the statements of Srila Prabhupada about Sridhar Maharaja I had already developed an appreciation for Sridhar Maharaja and I just ignored whatever Srila Prabhupada said because my heart told me different.

I follow my heart.

I don't follow the mandates of anyone who trys to tell me who I can love and who I can't.

I reject that concept wholesale.

And I was told that on principle I can't possibly love Prabhupada because I don't have any feelings for a guru I don't even know, Sridara Maharaja.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

And I was told that on principle I can't possibly love Prabhupada because I don't have any feelings for a guru I don't even know, Sridara Maharaja.

 

A guru whose name you can't even spell.

 

As we said before, to worship Sri Krishna without Srimati Radharani is half-mayavad. To worship Srila Prabhupada and try to ignore Srila Sridhar Maharaja (of whom *you* most certainly have heard) is certainly half-mayavad!!

[cbrahma]

 

A guru whose name you can't even spell.

 

As we said before, to worship Sri Krishna without Srimati Radharani is half-mayavad. To worship Srila Prabhupada and try to ignore Srila Sridhar Maharaja (of whom *you* most certainly have heard) is certainly half-mayavad!!

Now your snapping at typos and making your own sastras

"To worship Srila Prabhupada and try to ignore Srila Sridhar Maharaja (of whom *you* most certainly have heard) is certainly half-mayavad!!"

I see what this discussion has reduced you to.

[Guruvani]

 

And I was told that on principle I can't possibly love Prabhupada because I don't have any feelings for a guru I don't even know, Sridara Maharaja.

Well, it appears from your writings and topics that you have great disrespect and disregard for Srila Sridhar Maharaja whom you don't even know.(according to you)

 

How can we blame you?

Srila Prabhupada made some strong statements about Sridhar Maharaja.

I see that he had made contradictory statements when actually in the presence of Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

 

Anyway, my position has nothing to do with politics or ISKCON intrigue.

I developed faith and appreciation for Srila Sridhar Maharaja after a very wonderful Godbrother gave me some tapes to hear.

 

I was very isolated and aloof from ISKCON politics at that time and my access to the statements and tapes of Srila Prabhupada didn't come till after I had fell in love with Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

 

So, that was the almighty's plan for me.

Apparently, his plan for you is different.

 

I just don't see the value or goodness in slamming the faith and feelings of other people who have learned to appreciate some of the great disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur other than Srila Prabhupada.

 

Why you insist to make propaganda against these great Vaishnavas and their meager followers is just not appreciated by me.

 

If you have some faith then follow that.

Why must you attack and vilify the faith and love of others who respect and admire great men who gave their lives to the mission of Srila Saraswati Thakur?

 

I think you have overstepped your boundaries.

 

Like Srila Prabhupada said "I can criticize my Godbothers but you my disciples cannot"

 

So, why are you criticising?

Do you think that pleases Srila Prabhupada?

It doesn't.

 

It is your personal agenda.

It is not the wish of Srila Prabhupada that succeeding generations assault and vilify the Godbrothers of Srila Prabhupada.

[BhaktiK]

Why THE LETTER TO RUPANUGA means nothing to me.

 

The core issue in the LETTER TO RUPANUGA is the proposition that Srila Sridhar Maharaj committed an offence to his Guru (Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura) when Srila Sridhar Maharaj chose to support Anantavasudeva as the new Acharya of the Gaudiya Math.

 

Well, given the fact that Srila Sridhar Maharaj didn't take part in any vote or GBC decision making process, that is, given the fact that he was not present when some other people had a vote and decided that Anantavasudeva should be a Guru, the very worst you can say about Srila Sridhar Maharaj is that he had no political skills.

 

It could be argued that Srila Sridhar Maharaj should have gone around gathering support and fighting with other factions and groups in order to assert his point of view within the Gaudiya Math community. But our Guru Maharaj, Srila Sridhar Maharaj, had no skills at all in that sort of activity.

 

One of Srila Sridhar Maharaj's titles is "yati-raja". That is, he is the leader of the Yatis (sannyasis). His nature was completely different from the nature of a politician.

 

In my experience, having skills in politics and in manipulating people is a skill that is greatly admired within Iskcon. Naturally, some people are attracted to conflict and want to be to pundits. Some people of that type of nature go to forums like this and practice giving "knock out punches" to everyone and anyone who has a different point of view from them. This is the working of the Gunas, the modes of nature (predominately ignorance & passion).

 

Some people memorize slokas and stories just for the purpose of being able to use those things to knock out people who they perceive as enemies.

 

Some troll can have fun if he goes and attacks new enemies by posting controversial threads on Audarya. It is easy to open a fight if you openly abuse some enemies and their Gurus.

 

You may never have met the enemies but it makes you feel good to hit them. Smack. Boom. Bash.

 

"Oh, this fells good!" You say that to yourself. "Oh, this fells good!"

 

You say that to yourself but outwardly you always say, "Jaya Prabhupada" and "Prabhupada ki jai".

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Now your snapping at typos and making your own sastras

"To worship Srila Prabhupada and try to ignore Srila Sridhar Maharaja (of whom *you* most certainly have heard) is certainly half-mayavad!!"

I see what this discussion has reduced you to.

 

They taught me in Logic and Rhetoric that there's no need to preface statements with "in my opinion"--it's implied.

 

Unless I'm quoting guru, sadhu, or shastra, it's my own opinion.

 

I may be grasping at straws, but you're setting fire to your grass hut.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

From a chat, I'm having right now:

 

Friend: Has anybody reminded the Sridhar Mj bashers that Srila Prabhupada's sannyasa mantra comes through him?

 

me: Oooh, good point! Not yet!

Srila Sridhar Maharaja intiated Sripad Keshava Maharaja, who initiated SP?

 

Friend: Yup!

Srila Guru Maharaj was the grand-sannyasa guru of Srila Prabhupada.

And the sannyasa mantra of nearly ever ISKCON sannyasi comes through Srila Guru Maharaj.

Of course, NM's people like to belittle this fact.

Pisses me off.

 

me: Wow!! I'll have to mention that (and credit "a friend", of course).

 

Friend: They try to obfuscate by claiming that Srila Saraswati Thakura mystically gave sannyasa to Srila Keshav Mj when they exchanged clothing in Poromotala.... to stealthly protect SST from the bricks being thrown.

They try to obfuscate by claiming that Srila Saraswati Thakura mystically gave sannyasa to Srila Keshav Mj when they exchanged clothing in Poromotala.... to stealthly protect SST from the bricks being thrown.

 

Friend: I see it as the glorious seva of Srila Keshav Mj, but not as giving him sannyasa. He later took sannyasa after the disappearance of SST from Srila Guru Maharaj. Originally SP approached Srila Guru Mj for sannyasa, but Srila Guru Mj sent him to Keshav Mj, saying that taking from him was as good as getting from him personally.

[cbrahma]

 

They taught me in Logic and Rhetoric that there's no need to preface statements with "in my opinion"--it's implied.

 

Unless I'm quoting guru, sadhu, or shastra, it's my own opinion.

 

I may be grasping at straws, but you're setting fire to your grass hut.

You laid down a principle off the top of your head not to mention inventing metaphors that don't apply.

The level of your argumentation is semantic, overblown and petty. I don't need to resort to that. There is no fire to put out.

[cbrahma]

 

Well, it appears from your writings and topics that you have great disrespect and disregard for Srila Sridhar Maharaja whom you don't even know.(according to you)

 

How can we blame you?

Srila Prabhupada made some strong statements about Sridhar Maharaja.

I see that he had made contradictory statements when actually in the presence of Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

 

Anyway, my position has nothing to do with politics or ISKCON intrigue.

I developed faith and appreciation for Srila Sridhar Maharaja after a very wonderful Godbrother gave me some tapes to hear.

 

I was very isolated and aloof from ISKCON politics at that time and my access to the statements and tapes of Srila Prabhupada didn't come till after I had fell in love with Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

 

So, that was the almighty's plan for me.

Apparently, his plan for you is different.

 

I just don't see the value or goodness in slamming the faith and feelings of other people who have learned to appreciate some of the great disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur other than Srila Prabhupada.

 

Why you insist to make propaganda against these great Vaishnavas and their meager followers is just not appreciated by me.

 

If you have some faith then follow that.

Why must you attack and vilify the faith and love of others who respect and admire great men who gave their lives to the mission of Srila Saraswati Thakur?

 

I think you have overstepped your boundaries.

 

Like Srila Prabhupada said "I can criticize my Godbothers but you my disciples cannot"

 

So, why are you criticising?

Do you think that pleases Srila Prabhupada?

It doesn't.

 

It is your personal agenda.

It is not the wish of Srila Prabhupada that succeeding generations assault and vilify the Godbrothers of Srila Prabhupada.

That would be wonderful to jump to that hostile conclusion so you in turn could yell apharada. I have done no such thing. I have just quoted Prabhupada and Prabhupada's disciple Rocana. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

In case you missed this during your rant.

 

 

From a chat, I'm having right now:

 

Friend: Has anybody reminded the Sridhar Mj bashers that Srila Prabhupada's sannyasa mantra comes through him?

 

me: Oooh, good point! Not yet!

Srila Sridhar Maharaja intiated Sripad Keshava Maharaja, who initiated SP?

 

Friend: Yup!

Srila Guru Maharaj was the grand-sannyasa guru of Srila Prabhupada.

And the sannyasa mantra of nearly ever ISKCON sannyasi comes through Srila Guru Maharaj.

Of course, NM's people like to belittle this fact.

Pisses me off.

 

me: Wow!! I'll have to mention that (and credit "a friend", of course).

 

Friend: They try to obfuscate by claiming that Srila Saraswati Thakura mystically gave sannyasa to Srila Keshav Mj when they exchanged clothing in Poromotala.... to stealthly protect SST from the bricks being thrown.

They try to obfuscate by claiming that Srila Saraswati Thakura mystically gave sannyasa to Srila Keshav Mj when they exchanged clothing in Poromotala.... to stealthly protect SST from the bricks being thrown.

 

Friend: I see it as the glorious seva of Srila Keshav Mj, but not as giving him sannyasa. He later took sannyasa after the disappearance of SST from Srila Guru Maharaj. Originally SP approached Srila Guru Mj for sannyasa, but Srila Guru Mj sent him to Keshav Mj, saying that taking from him was as good as getting from him personally.

[Guruvani]

 

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

 

The only cooking going on here is that you are getting roasted.

You are being basted in your own juices of indifference and apathy towards a great Vaishnava.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

The only cooking going on here is that you are getting roasted.

You are being basted in your own juices of indifference and apathy towards a great Vaishnava.

Actually, the so-called "apathy" is just a defensive posture. It seems clear that it's really *antipathy*.

[Guruvani]

 

Actually, the so-called "apathy" is just a defensive posture. It seems clear that it's really *antipathy*.

 

Good point.

But, you are a college boy and I am am not.

I could have been more explitive in my evaluation of cbrahma, but I bit my tongue and tried to say something a little more civil.

[Beggar]

 

"To worship Srila Prabhupada and try to ignore Srila Sridhar Maharaja (of whom *you* most certainly have heard) is certainly half-mayavad!!"

 

An absurd fanatical argument. You know dam'n well that I quote Srila Sridhar Maharaj as much or as more than anyone on this forum. But to repeat that "To worship Srila Prabhupada and try to ignore Srila Sridhar Maharaja is certainly half-mayavad!!" is to disregard the entire concept that Srila Sridhar Maharaj was trying to convery when he made that remark about worshiping Krsna without Srimati Radharani. The idea is that all shakti is ultimately an expansion of the Supreme Shakti, Srimati Radharani. This shakti includes Krsna's pitambara, crown or tierra, peacock feather, jewels and makeup. Without Srimati Radharani, Krsna is almost like impersonal brahman, black like endless space. Without Srimati Radharani, no one can "see" Krsna, for She is in charge of that department and revealing Krsna only by Her mercy. When Srila Sridhar Maharaj made that comment he wasn't just throwing some meaningless epithet as your "friend" and you are doing here, whether your anger is justified or not.

Now your friends next comment:

 

And the sannyasa mantra of nearly ever ISKCON sannyasi comes through Srila Guru Maharaj.

Of course, NM's people like to belittle this fact.

Pisses me off.

They try to obfuscate by claiming that Srila Saraswati Thakura mystically gave sannyasa to Srila Keshav Mj when they exchanged clothing in Poromotala.... to stealthly protect SST from the bricks being thrown.

 

Friend: I see it as the glorious seva of Srila Keshav Mj, but not as giving him sannyasa. He later took sannyasa after the disappearance of SST from Srila Guru Maharaj. Originally SP approached Srila Guru Mj for sannyasa, but Srila Guru Mj sent him to Keshav Mj, saying that taking from him was as good as getting from him personally.

The story of Srila Kesava Maharaj and Srila Saraswati Thakur exchanging clothing was a legend in Srila Kesava Maharaj's mission, the Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti long before he took sannyas from Srila Sridhar Maharaj. The disciples of all maths have their "story" of why their guru is the most illustrious disciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswat Prabhupada. A 75 yr. old story of a lila duing the time of Saraswati Thakur is not in and of itself a denial of the fact that Kesava Maharaj received the sannyas mantra from Srila Sridhar Maharaj. For the life of me I can't figure why some of the neophyte disciples of Srila Govinda Maharaj are such irrational fanatics and big time stool stirers.

Over the last few days I am very much noticing how you are clashing with certain posters, not so much over siddhantic differences but out of sentiment, misunderstanding, and plain old, false pride. First of all it is a clear fact that your guru does not want his disciples on these forums. Vrajesvara, many months ago admited this fact and eventually retired from posting here. I definitely believe that you should follow suit. You need to study this philosophy by reading and hearing. For some a forum like this is a dangerous place for they may not be able to digest what they read on Spiritual Discussions. It your case, its what you read and how it sets you off to write some of the things that you post on this forum. Many times it just doesn't seem that you are really deeply thinking about what your are writing. Perhaps I should not be here either, but in my case the verdict is not so clear as in yours. Time for you to be just a simple devotee. The conflicts that you are engaging in here, (and sometimes helping to create) will not be good for you in the long run. To stridently argue about spiritual topics is an offense in and of itself, and this is even magnified by the tact that you are taking.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

OK. I'll go away.

[BhaktiK]

Who is Beggar?

 

Is he a Prabhupada man? He sounds like one of them.

 

Is he the local sheriff?

[Beggar]

 

Vaisnava history tells us that after Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati’s departure, His senior disciples decided to reinstate the guru parampara. Narayana Maharaja’s own Spiritual Master, along with his fellow Gaudiya Matha spiritual masters, re-instituted the concept of guru parampara – but they did not do so on the authorization of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. In fact, they reinstated a guru parampara system that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta had essentially rejected.

This is written by someone who is so prejudiced and bias that he (Rocana) is unable to assimilate new information. If Srila Saraswati Thakurs "senior disciples" reinstated the guru parampara that would mean that he, Saraswati Thakur, stopped it. If he stopped the guru parampara that would mean that he had no guru. So this argument to show that Saraswati Thakur's senior disciples are bogus, actually makes Saraswati Thakur look bogus. Consequently this argument would be bogus. What Rocana is trying to say is that Srila Saraswati Thakur folowed the siksa guru or Bhagawat parampara not necessarily a diksa line and that his leading disciples re-established a diksa centered parampara. This is a truly unfounded, concocted and a ridiculous argument put forth by someone who is not taking the time and effort to actually study the history and the concepts presented. The person who presented the idea of the siksa guru parampara to the western ISKCON devotees was Srila Sridhar Maharaj and these talks are published in the book "Sri Guru and His Grace" for the whole world to read. The siksa guru parampara does not obliterate the diksa guru parampara but rather it eclipses in importance over an historical period. The siksa guru parampara recognizes original contributors to the line of thought of pure devotion of the followers of Srila Rupa Goswami. These original contributors may also be diksa gurus for the pacarartrika system of diksa goes on simultaneously with the siksa line. Those who are diksa gurus but not recognized historically in the siksa line are honored but not given much historical importance. The followers of Lalita Prasada, Srila Saraswati Thakurs brother, ONLY follow a diksa line. They therefore give more importance to Vipin Bihari Goswami, Srila Bhaktivinoda's diksa guru than the person Srila Saraswati Thakur traced the real current coming through, Srila Jaganatha das Babaji (Bhaktivinoda Thakur's siksa and Babaji guru). Rocan is underhandedly implying that the leading disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur became like or joined Lalita Prasada. NO ONE HAS EVER ALLEGED SUCH A THING BEFORE. SRILA PRABHUPADA NEVER WROTE OR INFERRED SUCH A THING. Only a confused person would ever write such a foolish statement.

[Vedesu]

 

Who is Beggar?

 

Is he a Prabhupada man? He sounds like one of them.

 

And who are you? The "friend" that was privately chatting with Murali Mohan prabhu, providing him with a distorted account of Srila B.P. Keshava Maharaja's sannyasa initiation, making the absurd claim that Srila Narayana Maharaja's followers are "ticked off" because the sannyasa initiations originally flowed through Srila Sridhara Maharaja?

 

IMHO, it doesn't take all that much reading comprehension to realize that Beggar is a devotee with deep appreciation for not only Srila Prabhupada, but Srila Sridhara Maharaja as well. Do you just gloss over his posts without trying to understand a single word?

 

I edited my post, because I think I know who you are. (Hint- someone from down under who in the past has boldly stated on these very forums that Srila Prabhupada is "an offender.") But since I can't prove this, and being that you could simply deny it even if true, I won't name names.

[Guruvani]

 

That would be wonderful to jump to that hostile conclusion so you in turn could yell apharada. I have done no such thing. I have just quoted Prabhupada

 

Srila Prabhupada didn't give carte blanche permission for every Tom, Dick or Harry in the future to use a personal letter to a disciple to bash Srila Sridhar Maharaja or his Godbrothers.

 

It was a temporary restraining order that was nullified by the acts and statements of Srila Prabhupada in his last year on Earth.

 

Srila Prabhupada didn't issue that letter to be used as a baseball bat for wannabe Hare Krishna in the future to abuse and beat Srila Sridhar Maharaja and his followers.

 

To abuse it as such simply defames Srila Prabhupada and tarnishes his place in Gaudiya history.

This resurrecting of old letters about the Godbrothers of Srila Prabhupada for political purposes is a blemish on the glorious accomplishments of Srila Prabhupada and is a great disservice to Srila Prabhupada.

[Kulapavana]

Looking at yet another bucket of garbage on Sampradaya Sun

 

http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2278.htm

 

I am filled with even more disgust at this brand of Prabhupada's followers (this guy is yet another rabid ritvik).

 

This has nothing to do with Vaishnavism. This is pure personality cult and blind fanaticism. Shame on Rocana Prabhu for allowing such offensive material be posted for everyone to see. But Rocana himself is quite a cultist and it plays to his sentiment.

[sevabhakta]

 

Looking at yet another bucket of garbage on Sampradaya Sun

 

http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2278.htm

 

I am filled with even more disgust at this brand of Prabhupada's followers (this guy is yet another rabid ritvik).

 

This has nothing to do with Vaishnavism. This is pure personality cult and blind fanaticism. Shame on Rocana Prabhu for allowing such offensive material be posted for everyone to see. But Rocana himself is quite a cultist and it plays to his sentiment.

 

You are just jealous that your personality cult is a fizzle.

 

The only rabid disease is thinking oneself more qualified than one is. The best option is to follow the orders of the qualified spiritual master and figure he knows a thing or two more than you. This is Mahesh Raja's point as he zealously advocates for regulative principles by instruction of the acarya.

 

Srila Prabhupada ordered, via his Last Will, that all Iskcon properties would be directed only by his initiated disciples IN PERPETUITY.

 

Srila Prabhupada structured an entire management system whereby a team of disciples with varying degrees of qualification canvassed, mentored, recommended, and ritually initiated many persons who Srila Prabhupada never met.

 

Anyone who doesn't like that he left Iskcon with the system he did has no right to tinker with it, no matter what their excuse. If you are witnessing or participating with the people and activities of a group named Iskcon, you must realize that if they are not following the instructions of the Acarya and having success, there needs to be a change alright. Reinstitute the acarya's instructions. All of them. All Pancaratriki vidhi samskaras. 1st and 2nd initiations, the second of utmost importance as you will see below, and to be performed by ritviks on behalf of the acarya. That is if you really want to get the spiritual benefit of the Real Iskcon that Srila Prabhupada provided.

 

Chanting Hare Krsna from scratch is Bhagavata vidhi. For some people the name is sufficient, Krpa siddhi maybe, or they were already very advanced.

 

FOR THE REST OF US, Srila Prabhupada was explicit that Pancaratriki vidhi was to be followed simultaneously in order that we make spiritual advancement while performing Bhagavat vidhi of Sravana/Kirtana.

 

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SB 7.5.23-24 Purport:

 

The answer is that even though the chanting of the holy name is sufficient to enable one to progress in spiritual life to the standard of love of Godhead, one is nonetheless susceptible to contamination because of possessing a material body. Consequently, special stress is given to the arcana-vidhi. One should therefore regularly take advantage of both the bhägavata process and pancaratriki process.

 

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Teaching of Lord Kapila ch.15:

Thus there must be two activities. The Deities must be worshiped, and this is called pancaratriki-vidhi. There must also be bhagavata-vidhi, reading Srimad Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. pancaratriki-vidhi and bhagavata-vidhi go hand in hand. By participating in these two processes, the neophyte can gradually attain the intermediate stage.

 

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SB 8.12.10 Purport

For the present day, the pancaratriki-vidhi as enunciated by Narada Muni is the only hope. Srila Rupa Gosvami, therefore, has quoted the following verse from the Brahma-yamala:

sruti-smrti-puranadi-

pancaratra-vidhim vina

aikantiki harer bhaktir

utpatayaiva kalpate

[bRS 1.2.101]

“Devotional service of the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic literatures like the Upanisads, puranas and Narada-pancaratra is simply an unnecessary disturbance in society.” (Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.2.101) Those who are very advanced in knowledge and are situated in the mode of goodness follow the Vedic instructions of the sruti and smrti and other religious scriptures, including the pancaratriki-vidhi. Without understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead in this way, one only creates a disturbance. In this age of Kali, so many gurus have sprung up, and because they do not refer to the sruti-smrti-puranadi-pancaratrika-vidhi [bRS 1.2.101], they are creating a great disturbance in the world in regard to understanding the Absolute Truth. However, those who follow the pancaratriki-vidhi under the guidance of a proper spiritual master can understand the Absolute Truth. It is said, pancaratrasya krtsnasya vakta tu bhagavan svayam: the pancaratra system is spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, just like Bhagavad-gita.

 

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CC Antya 7.76 Purport

Thus Narada, in his pancaratriki-vidhi, and other great sages have sometimes stressed that since every conditioned soul has a bodily concept of life aimed at sense enjoyment, to restrict this sense enjoyment the rules and regulations for worshiping the Deity in the temple are essential. Srila Rupa Gosvami has described that the holy name of the Lord can be chanted by liberated souls, but almost all the souls we have to initiate are conditioned. It is advised that one chant the holy name of the Lord without offenses and according to the regulative principles, yet due to their past bad habits they violate these rules and regulations. Thus the regulative principles for worship of the Deity are also simultaneously essential.

 

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The acarya prescribed the regulative principles for carrying out deity worship in his society, and one of them is 2nd initiation

 

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Thus if one is initiated by a proper person, he can be accepted as twice-born immediately. In our Krsna consciousness movement, we therefore offer the student his first initiation and allow him to chant the Hare Krsna maha-mantra. By chanting the Hare Krsna maha-mantra regularly and following the regulative principles, one becomes qualified to be initiated as a brahmana, because unless one is a qualified brahmana he cannot be allowed to worship Lord Visnu. This is called yajnika janma. In our Krsna consciousness society, unless one is twice initiated—first by chanting Hare Krsna and second by the Gayatri mantra—he is not allowed to enter the kitchen or Deity room to execute duties. However, when one is elevated to the platform on which he can worship the Deity, his previous birth does not matter.

 

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<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Can't have Pancaratra vidhi without priests performing rituals, and Brahminical initation is included in there, and the Acarya called them ritviks.

 

Anyone who thinks that being a ritvik precludes a person from becoming a spiritual master is ill informed.

 

Ritvik ritvik ritvik. Nice ring to it.

 

Hare Krsna

[Kulapavana]

 

The only rabid disease is thinking oneself more qualified than one is. The best option is to follow the orders of the qualified spiritual master and figure he knows a thing or two more than you. This is Mahesh Raja's point as he zealously advocates for regulative principles by instruction of the acarya.

 

That argument cuts both ways and can be applied all the way up. Mahesh is using one personal letter of SP to build his theory that:

 

"the position of Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers was even lower than Kanistha Adhikari AFTER the departure of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura BECAUSE they lacked the brahmanical qualification of truthfulness as they PRETENDED to be Acarya."

 

There is a series of important logical errors in his "reasoning" but more importantly that theory contradicts many other statements Prabhupada made regarding his godbrothers. Frankly speaking the letter Mahesh is using as a key "argument" places Prabhupada in a very unfavorable light, but that is a different story altogether.

 

The reason such offensive and absurd theories are propagated by some of Prabhupada's disciples is because they feel threatened by success of other Vaishnava missions. It is the same cult mentality that permeated NV during Kirtanananda's reign there.