The Letter

[Beggar]

 

 

The reason such offensive and absurd theories are propagated by some of Prabhupada's disciples is because they feel threatened by success of other Vaishnava missions. It is the same cult mentality that permeated NV during Kirtanananda's reign there.

 

"Party-spirit - that great enemy of truth - will always baffle the attempt of the inquirer who tries to gather truth from religious works of his nation, and will make him believe that absolute truth is nowhere except in his old religious book." [The Bhagavata Speech by Bhaktivinoda Thakura]

[Guruvani]

 

 

The reason such offensive and absurd theories are propagated by some of Prabhupada's disciples is because they feel threatened by success of other Vaishnava missions.

YES, that and a good helping of old fashioned envy and self-righteous arrogance.

 

They aren't happy to just follow their own faith and let others follow theirs.

They have to denigrate and insult anyone who doesn't believe exactly as they believe.

 

This is a common sympton of neophyte fanatics who have to make themselves fell all warm and fuzzy by denigrating anyone who doesn't to the dogma that has got them shackled to the neophyte stage without any hope for advancement.

 

If they were blissfully tasting the nectar of devotion they wouldn't have time for denigrating Vaishnavas who follow their own faith.

 

They are miserable losers whose only real pleasure is in insulting and denigrating others.

[sevabhakta]

 

That argument cuts both ways and can be applied all the way up. Mahesh is using one personal letter of SP to build his theory that:

 

"the position of Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers was even lower than Kanistha Adhikari AFTER the departure of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura BECAUSE they lacked the brahmanical qualification of truthfulness as they PRETENDED to be Acarya."

 

There is a series of important logical errors in his "reasoning" but more importantly that theory contradicts many other statements Prabhupada made regarding his godbrothers. Frankly speaking the letter Mahesh is using as a key "argument" places Prabhupada in a very unfavorable light, but that is a different story altogether.

 

The reason such offensive and absurd theories are propagated by some of Prabhupada's disciples is because they feel threatened by success of other Vaishnava missions. It is the same cult mentality that permeated NV during Kirtanananda's reign there.

 

Well, I have been following Mahesh Raja's posts because of the valuable coalation of quotes and interesting deductions he usually makes.

 

Unfortunately, I missed the first paragraph in his latest article. Kulapavana points out his agenda there and I agree Mahesh is mistaken.

 

Neophytes make mistakes all the time. If they are directly disobeying their spiritual master with full awareness, then they are no longer under discipline but if they ever surrendered even a little bit, they are technically still under shelter of their spiritual master, even if seemingly from a distance.

 

I do agree that only by their surrender to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and association with Srila Prabhupada did Srila Sridhara Maharaja and Srila Govinda Maharaja make the advancement to perfection that they have.

 

That said, Mahesh's points in his recent slew of articles shed alot of light on who is qualified to do what, and what a ritvik is. Unfortunately his latest tactics backfired and he uses the wrong method to try and acheive his goal, while commiting offenses in the meantime.

 

Hare Krsna.

[Guruvani]

 

Ritvik ritvik ritvik. Nice ring to it.

 

Hare Krsna

I used to support and promote the ritvik system, but having since realized that there are no moderate, rational and resonable leaders of the ritvik camps I have since divorced myself from the ritvik school.

 

The ISKCON GBC will certainly never revive or restore the ritvik system and since they were the only agency actually authorized to implement a ritvik system I have resigned from the ritvik agenda.

 

The ritvik system was not for anyone and everyone to practice.

It was specifally authorized for the GBC.

They don't follow it.

So, ritvik is dead and I am not in the business of trying to revive the dead anymore.

The damage is done.

It's too late to prevent what the ritvik system was supposed to prevent.

The genie is out of the bottle and there is no getting him back in at this time in history.

[Beggar]

 

This is a common sympton of neophyte fanatics who have to make themselves fell all warm and fuzzy by denigrating anyone who doesn't to the dogma that has got them shackled to the neophyte stage without any hope for advancement.

 

Yes and it can happen anywhere. Just because we have read about, "society consciousness vs. God consciousness" doesn't make such a society and it's members exempt from the same thing taking place. In fact the more kanisthas are concetrated, the risk of re-enforcing the kanistha mentality increases. To assert that because we have been given so much warning about this phenomena that it cannot happen to us is something like denying the possibility of someone "pretending" to sleep. And as we have heard, "it is even more difficult to wake someone who is pretending to sleep than someone who is actually sleeping." Another aphorism that is relevant here is, "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing" Sometimes an acarya is teaching by installments but sometimes knowledge may be withheld because it can be misused.

[Guruvani]

 

Yes and it can happen anywhere. Just because we have read about, "society consciousness vs. God consciousness" doesn't make such a society and it's members exempt from the same thing taking place. In fact the more kanisthas are concetrated, the risk of re-enforcing the kanistha mentality increases. To assert that because we have been given so much warning about this phenomena that it cannot happen to us is something like denying the possibility of someone "pretending" to sleep. And as we have heard, "it is even more difficult to wake someone who is pretending to sleep than someone who is actually sleeping." Another aphorism that is relevant here is, "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing" Sometimes an acarya is teaching by installments but sometimes knowledge may be withheld because it can be misused.

 

Myself, I am less than neophyte.

So, maybe that allows me a little objectivity because really I am not even a Hare Krishna devotee - just an outside observer who tries to sort out the facts out of my own curiousity.

[BhaktiK]

 

I do agree that only by their surrender to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and association with Srila Prabhupada did Srila Sridhara Maharaja and Srila Govinda Maharaja make the advancement to perfection that they have.

 

 

Please accept my prostrate obeisances at your divine feet.

 

It is truly amazing that after so many lifetimes I have come in contact with such an exalted soul as you.

 

Your divine realization, in that you are able to detect who is a nitya-siddha and who is a sadhana-siddha, marks you out as one of the most exalted souls living on this earth today.

 

Koti dandavats to you, great Maha-Purusha soul.

 

All glory to His Divine Grace, anonymous sevabhakta!

 

Can you send me your photo so I can offer incense to you every day? Better still, could you please post your photo on this web site so all the fortunate souls can see your divine lotus face?

[sevabhakta]

 

Please accept my prostrate obeisances at your divine feet.

 

It is truly amazing that after so many lifetimes I have come in contact with such an exalted soul as you.

 

Your divine realization, in that you are able to detect who is a nitya-siddha and who is a sadhana-siddha, marks you out as one of the most exalted souls living on this earth today.

 

Koti dandavats to you, great Maha-Purusha soul.

 

All glory to His Divine Grace, anonymous sevabhakta!

 

Can you send me your photo so I can offer incense to you every day? Better still, could you please post your photo on this web site so all the fortunate souls can see your divine lotus face?

 

You misunderstand, whether they were nitya siddha or sadhana siddha, the grace and mercy still comes in the same manner, in the form of the mercy transmitted by the more advanced devotees who one serves the pleasure of. What I said was actually a glorification of them.

 

You read between the lines and extrapolated that I was labeling them as sadhana siddhas. Perhaps you should read the philosophy, check your witty sarcasm at the door, and then add to the discussion. Otherwise if you are just here to make offenses, there is plenty of opportunity for that too. Just criticise me, there is plenty to criticise, and you can have a full time job offending me if you really want it.

 

Hare Krsna

[BhaktiK]

First you wrote

 

 

I do agree that only by their surrender to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and association with Srila Prabhupada did Srila Sridhara Maharaja and Srila Govinda Maharaja make the advancement to perfection that they have.

 

You said "only by their surrender to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and association with Srila Prabhupada did Srila Sridhara Maharaja and Srila Govinda Maharaja make the advancement to perfection that they have."

 

But Srila Sridhar Maharaj was a follower of Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura and nobody else.

 

How do you know that the thing you wrote is true?

 

I'm not being sarcastic. I am treating you with the respect you deserve. If you are able to see this then you must be a very advanced devotee. On the other hand if you don't have a divine realization about this then what prompts you to make such bold statements? I would think it was EGO or BAD ASSOCIATION that makes someone say such things that are not known to be true. Nobody else I've ever heard of (of any substance) has ever come forward with this sort of statement so I'm asking you to prove what you wrote is true.

 

Certainly we know that Srila Govinda Dev Goswami Maharaj considers Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami as his Guru and his senior, his mentor.

 

We have also heard Srila Prabhupada saying that Srila Sridhar Maharaj is "senior to me" but where do we find Srila Sridhar Maharaj saying that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami was "senior to me"?

 

This is a reasonable question. What is your answer?

 

Concoting a misconceived view of a divine relationship may suit some people but if you want to enter into the WORLD OF REALITY then try and understand the true nature of the relationship.

[Beggar]

 

We have also heard Srila Prabhupada saying that Srila Sridhar Maharaj is "senior to me" but where do we find Srila Sridhar Maharaj saying that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami was "senior to me"?

 

This is a reasonable question. What is your answer?

 

Concoting a misconceived view of a divine relationship may suit some people but if you want to enter into the WORLD OF REALITY then try and understand the true nature of the relationship.

 

Sometimes the truth must be given in installments. How will those raised on ISKCON's teachings (not the real inner teachings of Srila B.V. Prabhupada) be able to digest all of this in one sitting. Who is so sukrti-van?

[Guruvani]

 

Who is so sukrti-van?

 

I have Chevy Astro van.

Do I qualify?

[Beggar]

 

I have Chevy Astro van.

Do I qualify?

4 or 6 cylinder? LE or LX?

[Guruvani]

 

4 or 6 cylinder? LE or LX?

 

LX with the package.

Does that mean have have extra sukriti?

[Guruvani]

 

LX with the package.

Does that mean have have extra sukriti?

But, it is a 95 with 150,000 miles and smokes when I start it up in the morning.

My pretense of opulence was just a joke.

 

I live in a shack in North Central Florida.

[sevabhakta]

 

First you wrote

 

 

 

You said "only by their surrender to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and association with Srila Prabhupada did Srila Sridhara Maharaja and Srila Govinda Maharaja make the advancement to perfection that they have."

 

But Srila Sridhar Maharaj was a follower of Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura and nobody else.

 

How do you know that the thing you wrote is true?

 

I'm not being sarcastic. I am treating you with the respect you deserve. If you are able to see this then you must be a very advanced devotee. On the other hand if you don't have a divine realization about this then what prompts you to make such bold statements? I would think it was EGO or BAD ASSOCIATION that makes someone say such things that are not known to be true. Nobody else I've ever heard of (of any substance) has ever come forward with this sort of statement so I'm asking you to prove what you wrote is true.

 

Certainly we know that Srila Govinda Dev Goswami Maharaj considers Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami as his Guru and his senior, his mentor.

 

We have also heard Srila Prabhupada saying that Srila Sridhar Maharaj is "senior to me" but where do we find Srila Sridhar Maharaj saying that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami was "senior to me"?

 

This is a reasonable question. What is your answer?

 

Concoting a misconceived view of a divine relationship may suit some people but if you want to enter into the WORLD OF REALITY then try and understand the true nature of the relationship.

 

If you take Srila Prabhupada's public assessments as well as a one time public criticism/chastisement of Srila Sridhar Maharaja, and take the rest of the history of the Gaudiya Math from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta on, you can plainly see that Srila Prabhupada was senior by advancement. And if that doesn't do it for you, perhaps the saktavesa avatara routine would tip you off.

 

Thus by the combined mercy of their Gurus (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and Srila Sridhara Maharaja respectively), and their sadhu association (Srila Prabhupada), Srila Sridhara Maharaja made such advancement that Srila Prabhupada made indications in this regard toward the end of his appearance. And as for Srila Govinda Maharaja, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree as far as I can tell. One big happy family.

 

Hare Krsna

[BhaktiK]

 

If you take Srila Prabhupada's public assessments as well as a one time public criticism/chastisement of Srila Sridhar Maharaja, and take the rest of the history of the Gaudiya Math from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta on, you can plainly see that Srila Prabhupada was senior by advancement.

 

If some person says he is better than others does it automatically mean he is better?

 

If someone believes a particular version of history without checking to see if it is true, is he a fool?

 

Perhaps if you were alive a hundred years ago and you went to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur and started criticizing Srila Gaurakisora Dasa Babaji Maharaja for the fact that Babaji Maharaj was not a successful preacher, perhaps then you would have learned something about the true philosophy taught by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura. But that is just a hypothetical situation - you weren't there and neither was I. What is certain is that the people who criticize Vaisnava acharyas engaged in bhajan are walking on a very slippery slope. No doubt about it.

 

If someone who is preaching to beginners takes it upon himself to criticize gentle Vaisnavas who are spending all their energy doing service with love and devotion, does that automatically mean the preacher is a more senior sadhu in a more senior position?

 

As far as the saktyavesa-avatara reference goes don't you know the story about the saktyavesa-avatara named Parasurama who used to enjoy fighting? He came into the presence of a greater incarnation (Lord Rama) and all his power and fighting ability drained away.

 

Maybe "Srila Prabhupada said" works for you but it doesn't for me.

 

Doyal Nitai

[sevabhakta]

Jaya Nitai!

 

Prabhu, it is not just that Srila Prabhupada said, it is that the symptoms and the storyline match what he said. And there is no dimunition or diminishment intended or involved, only glorification of the mysteries of mercy and advancement.

 

There is no need to be sectarian, yet we can honor the differences and enjoy the transcendental competition at the same time as being unified in general in our approach to the Supreme Personality, Sri Krsna.

 

Hare Krsna

[BhaktiK]

I don't enjoy the so called transcendental competition. This idea that there should be competition is a crock of #!%4

 

And what storyline are you referring to?

 

The storyline in which Srila Sridhar Maharaj left the Gaudiya Math as soon as he found out that Anantavasudeva was fallen down? The storyline where Srila Sridhar Maharaj was preaching in Bengal and initiating disciples from 1942 onwards? The storyline where Swami Maharaj wanted to make a new organization with Srila Sridhar Maharaj as the head, but then Srila Sridhar Maharaj out of humility said he didn't want that leading role, but that the Godbrothers should each start their own Mission and work together as friends?

 

What sort of symptoms do we find in the person I'm talking about in my storyline? That is for you to decide. But I decided what sort of person Srila Sridhar Maharaj is when I sat at his feet and saw him myself. In all the years I was with Srila Prabhupada I always saw him as an empowered preacher who God had sent into the world to deliver the fallen souls like me. Yet what I saw in Srila Sridhar Maharaj was far more attractive to me. What that is, I won't bother describing to you since you have already expressed that you don't see Srila Sridhar Maharaj as someone of that plane of existence. You think he was just making advancement in this life, but we have seen that he is ... someone very special.

 

Each to his own.

 

He Bhagavan!