From Whom Should One Take Initiation In The Process Of KRSNA CONCIOUSNESS ???

[krsna]

One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorized by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksä-vidhäna. Lord Krsna states in Bhagavad-gitä, vyapäsritya: one should accept a spiritual master. By this process the entire world can be converted to Krsna consciousness.

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 4.8.54 PURPORT:deal:

[CCC]

 

One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorized by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksä-vidhäna. Lord Krsna states in Bhagavad-gitä, vyapäsritya: one should accept a spiritual master. By this process the entire world can be converted to Krsna consciousness.

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 4.8.54 PURPORT:deal:

 

Srila Prabhupada was authorized by His spiritual master in a dream, not just one, two or three also Srila Prabhupada when he was goign to america in the jaladuta He saw in a dream all expansion of Krsna helping Him... something like that

 

Also, once I heard -maybe in a dvd- a devotee speaking about Srila Prabhupada. This devotee said that srila Prabhupada was crying and he ask him why and Srila Prabhupada said him, because I am seeing Krsna seated in that tree.

[cbrahma]

 

One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorized by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksä-vidhäna. Lord Krsna states in Bhagavad-gitä, vyapäsritya: one should accept a spiritual master. By this process the entire world can be converted to Krsna consciousness.

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 4.8.54 PURPORT:deal:

The diksa thing goes nowhere. Another hopeless controversy. I know I have absolutely no intention of being initiated by GBC-appointed gurus. Initiation isn't a formality anyways.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

 

North Shore Oahu, Hawaii, December 30, 2000

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja:

If one has realized this fact, that by these activities that I am doing, we cannot be happy, never. So to know how I can be happy, really, in this world and after this world, then he should go to very high-class of devotee, that is realized, knowing all the purports of the sastra. Gita, Bhagavatam and so on. And really observing himself, following all what has been told. So he should be expert in all the siddhanta of the Vedas, Upanisads, Bhagavatam. And secondly, he should have some realization of Krishna. If anyone is expert in all sastra, but has no realization of Krishna , he is not guru. After some time he may fall down. And if anyone, not knowing even so much sastra, but has realization of Krishna, really he is guru.

 

 

But one thing more, he will be detached from worldly desires and attachments, he must be. If the guru is not detached from worldly things, he has no experience, he has not realized anything about Krishna, and he does not know all the Vedic siddhanta, really he is not guru.

 

 

By his association, you cannot advance and have all these things. So guru should be like this. Fortunately, if you have a guru like this, detached from worldly matters, totally, always chanting and remembering in the line of Rupa Gosvami or Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And he knows all kinds of siddhanta, expert in all these things, what Krishna-tattva is, maya-tattva is, rasa-tattva is, bhakti-tattva, jiva-tattva, everything, he is expert. Only he can help you! Otherwise not.

 

 

Anyhow if you don't have a guru, you are not initiated by such a guru, you are initiated by family guru or a guru who is not expert in vedas, no realization, not detached from worldly things and you are initiated by such a guru, but now you are realizing he cannot help you. I should have the help of any realized soul, having all the qualities, always chanting, remembering, expert in all siddhanta. And especially he should be what? Detached from worldly things.

 

 

I should go there and I should take his help. He must give help. Regardless if disciple or not, always ready to help and give support. Better take him as diksa guru or siksa guru, both are like the same.

 

[mahak]

Even though we get headaches speaking on this subject, it is most important. The importance is right up there with "who am I? What is my eternal function?"

 

There are many discussions about folks realizations concerning guru tattwa, many studies with drawn conclusions about the definition of initiation, etc.

 

But first, we must come to realize Guru. Guru is the deep voice within that, when we are afflicted with the four reasons to approach the idea of the Supreme Being, takes the helm of the chariot of our successful return to sanity. This voice becomes leadership, and places one in contact of whom the Inner Self, the Inner Light as bro george sings in the most excellent beatles composiotion, and presto, there is a devoteespeaking on behalf of Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga. This is no accident, this first contact. And that person fits all definition of guru, specifically inspired to give what he has himself received. (Now comes the letdown, I have forgotten the adjective for this form of Lord Nityananda as the introduction guru.)

 

SIKSA GURU

Then naturally, the invitee to the feast wants more, so he sits down with a particular devotee and hears from him (her) with rapt attention, and performs service in return (takes the beads, and begins the sadhana bhakti process).

 

DIKSA GURU

 

Then the craving begins, one decides to make a commitment, the inquisitiveness, need, and utter poverty dwindles into SOPHIA (my word for Krsnas Personally sent wisdom.) The wisdom gives one vision to see the vaisnava, to decide beyond doubt, that this person is a valid link to Krsna who is guiding me from within, according to my sincerity.

 

That person is one I must ask to enter into intimate world of Krsna Lila, to become a member of Lord Chaitanya's travelling samkirtana party. And that person may or may not agree to the proposal, not unlike a goddess who has the right to refuse the marriage proposal of a prospective suitor.

 

When the marriage takes place, the two are acting as one, and that ultimate ONE is Srila Vyasadedva, the owner of the Vyasasana, who is the ultimate decider of authorization. I dont remember anything about joining a church, declaring allegiance, acting all religious, lie dat. Everything mentiond above seems quite natural, surfing.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zx0O2p-wAM&feature=related

 

BTW, The above link is what I mean about comedy relief.

 

Guru tattwa. Discussion, anyone. No fighting, just realizations allowed.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[sopatel]

Its true that you need a guru but its also true that you will get the guru as you deserve. When your heart and mind is ready to accept the authority of someone, the right person will come.

Abroad we don't have temples where we live much less a guru but when I went to India, my dad's guru had explained to him that parents, especially mothers are the first guur of any child. He also said that the seed of bhakti you sow in you child from his/her young age will fructify with daily nurturing. He suggested read to your children the pastimes of Krishna to bed, pray with them everyday, have the family eat dinner together and have the father offer the food to the Lord. I am writing this because our mind's our full of so much duality that we will always question right/wrong. So make the world your guru formost and learn a lesson from every being. Then you will get a guru that will take that affection and love to put you on the highest level of Krishna conciousness. Hopefully, this isn't much straying but again it is hard to accept total authority of a true guru without being humble.

 

Jai Shri Krishna

[Beggar]

 

Devotee: In his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.12.33, Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada wrote something in connection with the story of Dhruva Maharaj. He said that Dhruva Maharaj was a very powerful devotee and could take his mother back to Godhead, and then he wrote, "If one of my disciples becomes as strong as Dhruva Maharaj, then he can take me back to Godhead." This statement seems very mysterious.

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Dhruva's mother was his Guru, his vartma-pradarsaka-guru, his first guide, just as Cintamani was in the case of Bilvamangala Thakura. Through Cintamani, that Krsna-function as Acarya came as vartma-pradarsaka, and in a similar way Dhruva was initially inspired by his mother; his first spiritual instruction was from her. Next he received guidance from Narada, and then by dint of his bhajan he attained the next stage, and then again he went further. But his vartma-pradarsaka-guru was his mother, and yet she was to be apparently left behind.

The vartma-pradarsaka-guru is the one who first gets the kanistha-adhikari bhakta started on the progressive spiritual path. But we have to consider the past lives of Dhruva and his mother. In his past life Dhruva had made more progress, but then in that life it was arranged by the Lord that his mother would get him started in the proper direction, and thereafter he adopted the path of bhajan. Both of them had previous lives of progress in the proper direction, but sometimes a primary teacher may have a student who is an extraordinary scholar.

In my school days, I remember there was a case we had to read about in history class in connection with the famous statesman Edmund Burke and the taxation laws passed by Parliament at the time of the American Revolutionary War. It happened that his service was so much appreciated that he had the title of 'lord' conferred upon him, and to make him a lord, his father and then his grandfather were also awarded the title of 'lord.' The title of 'lord' comes from up to down, but in that case, it went from down to up! The grandson was first given the recognition of lord, and then the father, and then the grandfather. The grandson received the title first by dint of his capacity. So it may be that because of previous arrangements, a less qualified person may give a push to a more qualified person in the beginning, and in return the more qualified person may later help him. Thus the Guru will instruct God-consciousness to different people in different places. From different directions one may receive help.

[Beggar]

Sripad Swami B. G. Narasingha:

The meaning of the words, "Guru is one" are derived from the sanskrit words, 'akhanda-guru-tattva'. This means the undivided (akhanda) principle of the guru-tattva. This akhanda (undivided) guru-tattva manifests in three aspects, namely: caitya-guru, diksa-guru, and siksa-guru respectively. Caitya-guru is the Supersoul within the heart of the living entity. Diksa-guru and siksa-guru are the two kinds of gurus appearing externally as pure devotees of the Supreme Lord. The diksa and siksa-gurus are considered equal manifestations of Krishna because they manifest to take the disciple back to Godhead. The individuality of the diksa and siksa-gurus exists as Vaishnavas but in purpose they are one – they are equal manifestations of Krishna and therefore they are said to be 'one'.

[mahak]

thanks, beggar, where would I be without the veda base of audarya fellowship, hare krsna.

[cbrahma]

Apart from a fire-sacrifice, what can it possibly mean? I've spoken to diska initiates and they hardly interact with their diksa.

So I need a fire-sacrifce so the magic can begin. So utterly artificial, especially after knowing so many initiates who show no signs of spirituality other than their exclusiveness and sense of special superiority...like the Jewish elect.

[Audarya-lila dasa]

No need to judge anyone else. If you really want to love and serve Krsna he knows it - in the form of Caitya Guru. When your intensity raises in pitch Krsna will come before you externally as Sri Guru. You will feel the inner inspiration to develop a deep connection with Him/Her. It is really quite natural and based on your own inner faith development. It is not anything external or formal - it is about a deep heart connection.

[mahak]

ya know, I read in his books very little about fire sacrifices. Has anyone else? Usually in conjunction of some outdated and passe brahmana ritual calling Indra down so they can deliver a curse upon him. There is horse sacrifices. Brahmanas always had fires burning somewhere, smokin up the place. But I dont remember ritual between Iswara Puri and Madhavendra Puri, Vidura-Maitreya, Narada-Brahma, Vyasa-Narada, Sukadeva-Pariksit. Now his son, Janamejaya, he had a fire sacrifice goin that was called off because the reptilians had demigod clout.

 

But guru-disciple relationship has nothing to do with official ritual. Only shadow quasi religions are into that stuff.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scPNtdAayNA&NR=1

 

mahaksadasa

[cbrahma]

 

No need to judge anyone else. If you really want to love and serve Krsna he knows it - in the form of Caitya Guru. When your intensity raises in pitch Krsna will come before you externally as Sri Guru. You will feel the inner inspiration to develop a deep connection with Him/Her. It is really quite natural and based on your own inner faith development. It is not anything external or formal - it is about a deep heart connection.

Again the elitism of the caste. That is an implicit judgment. That God has not yet chosen me. How artificial.

[cbrahma]

 

But guru-disciple relationship has nothing to do with official ritual. Only shadow quasi religions are into that stuff.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scPNtdAayNA&NR=1

 

mahaksadasa

Well then a lot of 'devotees' are quasi-religious because I'm really quite tired of being proselytized and judged on the subject of formal diska.

Anybody can wheedle a formal initiation if they really want one that badly for all sorts of reasons. I'll pass.

[mahak]

But guru tattwa is working well, making you observe the fraud and inability to surrender to such. Not accepting a guru suddenly is a teaching of Srila Prabhupada, and in doing o (or refraining from doing so), taking your time, these are his orders. Fanatics use force, guru has no use for one who has no need for a guru.

 

Next time you get fanaticized on the diksa issue, say you already got one. When they ask you who, tell them that they must be shown the same way you were, and if they refuse, that it has something to do with their lack of sincerity.

[Guruvani]

 

One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorized by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksä-vidhäna. Lord Krsna states in Bhagavad-gitä, vyapäsritya: one should accept a spiritual master. By this process the entire world can be converted to Krsna consciousness.

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 4.8.54 PURPORT:deal:

Srila Prabhupada instructed all his disciples (boys and girls) to become spiritual masters.

 

http://krishna.org/audio/MP3/Festivals___London_1973-08-22___Vyasa-puja--Thanks_to_the_Original_Guru.mp3

 

 

To become spiritual master is not very difficult thing. You'll have to become spiritual master. You, all my disciples, everyone should become spiritual master.It is not difficult. It is difficult when you manufacture something. But if you simply present whatever you have heard from your spiritual master, it is very easy.

Every disciple of Srila Prabhupada has the authority and the order of Srila Prabhupada to become spiritual master.

[cbrahma]

 

Srila Prabhupada instructed all his disciples (boys and girls) to become spiritual masters.

 

http://krishna.org/audio/MP3/Festivals___London_1973-08-22___Vyasa-puja--Thanks_to_the_Original_Guru.mp3

 

 

Every disciple of Srila Prabhupada has the authority and the order of Srila Prabhupada to become spiritual master.

Book, letter or tape?

[mahak]

from

 

http://www.esnips.com/doc/8b434cb4-1a6c-4f2c-82cc-1925b44ebfa0/02

 

lyrics are missing, so here they are

 

 

<CENTER>Mercy Ship c.1993, mahaksadasa

You came into my life from oh so far,

Riding through my mind in Subhadra's car,

Without a single purpose but to save the world.

Your Song has mor power than all the missles they have hurled.

 

All the holy men came to show the way.

Many people listened to what they had to say.

Some of them insane, some just went to other things,

Not knowing the difference between soldiers and Kings.

 

They wanted to steal my mind, take away my land,

A trade for a philosophy no one can understand.

They prey on people' greed, take advantage of their fear.

They say anything the people want to hear.

 

Tricks, treachery, cheap words, and smiling nods,

Are needed to convince the ignorant they are gods.

Crime, poverty, death, gods exposed as fools,

Tossed around like ants into giant whirlpools.

 

But You did not come to advertize Your name.

You had no pressing needs to strive for selfish fame.

You have what you are given, and to me You bring,

Matchless Gifts, if I would only dance and sing.

 

You have gone back to Vrndavana, left me all alone,

On these streets of Armageddon, weary to the bone.

Yet You leave Your loving Lifeline, waiting for my grip.

Through these dreadful waters, You guide the Mercy Ship.</CENTER>

[Guruvani]

 

Book, letter or tape?

 

There is a link in my post to a lecture audio file that you can download and listen too.

Just .

 

 

http://krishna.org/audio/MP3/Festiva...ginal_Guru.mp3

[cbrahma]

 

There is a link in my post to a lecture audio file that you can download and listen too.

Just .

 

 

http://krishna.org/audio/MP3/Festiva...ginal_Guru.mp3

your own guru add. help:eek:

[kailasa]

 

North Shore Oahu, Hawaii, December 30, 2000

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja:

If one has realized this fact, that by these activities that

 

another polotikal lecture))

[kailasa]

political

[sevabhakta]

Hari Bol!

 

All glories to Guru and Gauranga!

 

First someone willingly vibrates the Holy Names and if they touch his stonelike heart that person might next willingly seek to know more about the activities of the devotees who comprise the society based on and propagating the Holy Names, and therefore take their association.

 

Anyone who says such a person is not initiated into the culture of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and the sampradaya represented by the Acaryas in Swami Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada's Siksa line are simply wrong.

 

The next step, according to the norm of the spiritual culture, is to observe the pancaratrika viddhi prescribed according to time place and circumstance. Srila Prabhupada trained his brahminical order within Daivi Varnasrama Dharma, and the brahminically inclined were to oversee the administration of the pancaratrik viddhi because Srila Prabhupada said so, and the manifest purpose in society is that they are naturally arising opportunities for the more qualified brahmanas to interface with the other varnas and asramas in society, instructing through a meaningful and orderly ceremony wherein the exemplar of using all things in Krsna's service becomes a reality, and those instructed are respected and encouraged as they are following the religious order of things, which for a householder amounts to a very pious and devotional commitment.

 

 

 

SB 5.19.10

PURPORT

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has clearly declared:

bharata-bhumite haila manusya-janma yara

janma sarthaka kari’ kara para-upakara

[Cc. Adi 9.41]

The real success or fulfillment of the mission of human life can be achieved in India, Bharata-varsa, because in Bharata-varsa the purpose of life and the method for achieving success are evident. People should take advantage of the opportunity afforded by Bharata-varsa, and this is especially so for those who are following the principles of varnasrama-dharma. If we do not take to the principles of varnasrama-dharma by accepting the four social orders (brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya and sudra) and the four orders of spiritual life (brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa), there can be no question of success in life. Unfortunately, because of the influence of Kali-yuga, everything is now being lost. The inhabitants of Bharata-varsa are gradually becoming degraded mlecchas and yavanas. How then will they teach others? Therefore, this Krsna consciousness movement has been started not only for the inhabitants of Bharata-varsa but for all the people of the world, as announced by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. There is still time, and if the inhabitants of Bharata-varsa take this movement of Krsna consciousness seriously, the entire world will be saved from gliding down to a hellish condition. The Krsna consciousness movement follows the process of pancaratrika-vidhi and that of bhagavata-vidhi simultaneously, so that people can take advantage of the movement and make their lives successful.

 

If Srila Prabhupada advised and integrated a particular ritual observance into his society's meaningful samskaras, then that is Pancaratrik viddhi as given by the acarya to advance one of his purposes which was to see Daivi Varnasrama dharma unfold as part and parcel of the Krsna Consciousness mission.

 

 

 

SB 9.10.51 PURPORT

Among the four yugas—Satya, Treta, Dvapara and Kali—the Kali-yuga is the worst, but if the process of varnasrama-dharma is introduced, even in this age of Kali, the situation of Satya-yuga can be invoked. The Hare Krsna movement, or Krsna consciousness movement, is meant for this purpose.

kaler dosa-nidhe rajann

asti hy eko mahan gunah

kirtanad eva krsnasya

mukta-sangah param vrajet

“My dear King, although Kali-yuga is full of faults, there is still one good quality about this age: simply by chanting the Hare Krsna maha-mantra, one can become free from material bondage and be promoted to the transcendental kingdom.” (Bhag. 12.3.51) If people take to this sankirtana movement of chanting Hare Krsna, Hare Rama, they will certainly be freed from the contamination of Kali-yuga, and the people of this age will be happy, as people were in Satya-yuga, the golden age. Anyone, anywhere, can easily take to this Hare Krsna movement; one need only chant the Hare Krsna maha-mantra, observe the rules and regulations, and stay free from the contamination of sinful life. Even if one is sinful and cannot give up sinful life immediately, if he chants the Hare Krsna maha-mantra with devotion and faith he will certainly be freed from all sinful activities, and his life will be successful. Param vijayate sri-krsna-sankirtanam. This is the blessing of Lord Ramacandra, who has appeared in this age of Kali as Lord Gaurasundara.

 

 

There is spiritual advancement to be made by surrendering more of one's false ego into a pure societal process.

 

I have seen the quote on this forum from an offical Iskcon memo where Srila Prabhupada reiterates an order which came back to him for clarification.

 

It was 1976 and he said (paraphrase) "yes, you heard me, I want ALL GRIHASTAS TO MOVE IMMEDIATELY TO THE FARM COMMUNITIES."

 

We also know of his fated attempt to get to Gita Nagari around Dec 76 where he only made it to Britain before falling so ill that he was forced to return to Vrndavana. The main purpose of his trip to Gita Nagari and live there for an undetermined amount of time? To teach them how to live off the land in rural vedic style. And also to recover his health by doing so.

 

And it has been established on this forum beyond a shadow of a doubt that between 1974 and 1977 he was repeatedly emphasizing that Iskcon members be recognized and organized according to his vision of Daivi Varnasrama Dharma. To practice this we were to simply recognize the natural skills and tendencies that were already present in the members of his society and be sure they are recognized for what they are and dovetailed, instead of repressed and then later erupting pervertedly thus sabotaging our efforts.

 

The temples were supposed to be supported by agrarian farm communities practicing cottage industry. That would constitute a micro spiritual Sankirtana society, manifested amidst Kali Yuga, and allow for the unfoldment of the process of Diksa for those willing to go further with their chanting of the maha mantra, and take the challenge of following the rules and regulations of their varna and asrama in order to advance their ecstacy.

 

Hare Krsna

[cbrahma]

 

Hari Bol!

 

 

 

 

There is spiritual advancement to be made by surrendering more of one's false ego into a pure societal process.

 

 

One will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

[sevabhakta]

The effective result of becoming well adjusted to vedic societal principles dispensed by the acarya is not anything like losing one's individuality in some orwellian borg like communist collective.

 

Remember, OUR philosophy is that when false ego is absent, real ego can be present.

 

BG 13. 8-12 from purport

 

 

False ego means accepting this body as oneself. When one understands that he is not his body and is spirit soul, that is real ego. Ego is there. False ego is condemned, but not real ego. In the Vedic literature, it is said: aham brahmasmi. I am Brahman, I am spirit. This "I am," the sense of self, also exists in the liberated stage of self-realization. This sense of "I am" is ego, but when the sense of "I am" is applied to this false body, it is false ego.

 

 

We are speaking about mixed devotees becoming more surrendered to sadhana, and less to subtle I me mine from false ego. Real ego is engaging in activities related to sankirtana according to one's varna and asrama. False ego is when a neophyte thinks that Srila Prabhupada's Daivi Varnasrama vision for Iskcon will lead to the loss of some sense of individuality, and talks himself into rejecting the system that will help him advance.