Srila Prabhupada's letters

[Yofu]

I recall, 14 years ago Tribhuvanath Prabhu giving us a slide show at a devotee's house in Ireland. He talked about his time with Srila Prabhupada. One story he told shocked me.

 

Tribhuvanath Prabhu had opened a temple or centre in Edinburgh and when Srila Prabhupada heard about it Srila Prabhupada was very pleased as he had learn English from missionaries from Edinburgh. Tamal Krishna was not too happy and tried to get the temple closed without much success.

 

Soon after Tribhuvanath recieved a letter from Srila Prabhupada ordering him to meet Srila Prabhupada in Bombay immediately. So Srila Tribhuvanath prabhu jumped on a plane and flew to India. When he arrived Srila Prabhupada was surprised toi see him there and asked Tribhuvanath why he was in Bombay. Tribhuvanath told His Divine Grace that he was there because His Divine Grace had ordered him to come. Srila Prabhupada said to Tribhuvantha that no such letter had been written by him!

 

While Tribhuvanath was in Bombay, the Edinburgh centre was closed down by.....guess who?

 

This has left me with the following thought. How many letters from Srila Prabhupada were not actually from Srila Prabhupada? And do these letters get quoted when devotees use the infamous..."Srila Prabhupada says...."

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

This has left me with the following thought. How many letters from Srila Prabhupada were not actually from Srila Prabhupada? And do these letters get quoted when devotees use the infamous..."Srila Prabhupada says...."

 

Excellent point!!!!!!

 

Nothing is assured in this Plane of Exploitation. We *must* rely upon the mercy of the Lord.

[Kulapavana]

I have heard that many letters were not written by Prabhupada but by his acting secretary. Some were signed by him, others were simply stamped with his signature. Several such stamps existed. I have also heard that some devotees were expert at copying Prabhupada's signature.

 

Perhaps that was one of the reasons Prabhupada said that if something was not in his books it had no real authority (in the philosophical sense).

 

SP delegated a lot of tasks to his appointed representatives, down to chanting on beads and chosing names for new disciples. It is very improbable that he himself wrote all those letters attributed to him.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Interesting! What about the tapes? Aside from the mysterious "breaks", no doubt, an experienced audio editor could use the vast archives of recordings of Srila Prabhupada speaking to make him say just about anything they choose.

 

 

I have heard that many letters were not written by Prabhupada but by his acting secretary. Some were signed by him, others were simply stamped with his signature. Several such stamps existed. I have also heard that some devotees were expert at copying Prabhupada's signature.

 

Perhaps that was one of the reasons Prabhupada said that if something was not in his books it had no real authority (in the philosophical sense).

 

SP delegated a lot of tasks to his appointed representatives, down to chanting on beads and chosing names for new disciples. It is very improbable that he himself wrote all those letters attributed to him.

[Kulapavana]

 

Interesting! What about the tapes? Aside from the mysterious "breaks", no doubt, an experienced audio editor could use the vast archives of recordings of Srila Prabhupada speaking to make him say just about anything they choose.

 

I'm not an expert in this matter but it seems unlikely. Small segments of speech might have been edited out but adding stuff to an existing tape is much harder because it can be easily detected by a routine lab sound analysis (differences in voltage, background noise, echo, etc.).

[theist]

And the books have been changed. And how about translations of Jaiva Dharma from different camps. Subtle changes in words used to translate can give different meanings.

 

Only Krsna from within gives realization.

[CCC]

 

And the books have been changed. And how about translations of Jaiva Dharma from different camps. Subtle changes in words used to translate can give different meanings.

 

Only Krsna from within gives realization.

 

 

hey thanks theist now I remembered something, I am looking for the jaiva dharma book but it is said that the "gaudiya matha's version" is not as it is and there is another jaiva dharm from the translator of Caitanya Bhagavata, I don't remember his name now but Srila Prabhupada gives him the service of translation.... have you some references?

 

thanks

[Beggar]

 

hey thanks theist now I remembered something, I am looking for the jaiva dharma book but it is said that the "gaudiya matha's version" is not as it is and there is another jaiva dharm from the translator of Caitanya Bhagavata, I don't remember his name now but Srila Prabhupada gives him the service of translation.... have you some references?

 

thanks

 

Jaiva Dharma published

 

by Kesidamana das

Posted September 12, 2004

Dear Vaisnavas,

We are happy to announce the publication of the Jaiva-dharma of Srila Sac-cid-ananda Bhaktivinoda Thakura, translated by Sriman Sarvabhavana dasa for the appreciation of the Vaisnava devotees.

In London, 23rd September1969, on the appearance day celebration of Srila Bhaktivinoda, Srila Prabhupada gave a lecture on the life and teachings of the Thakura. In the lecture, Srila Prabhupada explained:

 

 

"So Bhaktivinoda Thakura happens to be an acarya, one of the acaryas. And he has left behind him many books-Caitanya-siksamrta, Jaiva-dharma. These are very important books. They're in Bengali and Sanskrit. ...So we are trying to present Bhaktivinoda Thakura's books also in an English translation. Gradually you will get them."

 

The translator, Sarvabhavana dasa, was personally ordered by his spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada, to translate the Vaisnava works into English. To date this he has done with distinction with many publications, being expert in his first language, Bengali, and also English.

The present offering, Jaiva-dharma, has been published in splendid style with one of the best presses in India, Thompson Press, New Delhi.

There are eight original paintings, four of which were specially commissioned, an elaborate introduction, and the book is presented hard-bound with a gold-embossed cover and laminated dust jacket. To facilitate the many blissful hours of study and contemplation this most important and recommended work warrants, fine paper and a comfortably sized font has been used.

In our humble efforts to fulfil the desire of Srila Prabhupada and serve the Vaisnavas, we pray for your blessings,

Hare Krsna,

Kesidamana dasa.

E-mail: kesidamana.ACBSP@pamho.net

[Beggar]

Although none of the non-ISKCON Gaudiya Camps like Sarvabhavana for a number of reasons some of them secretly admit that his translation may be the most accurate English translation of all.

[CCC]

 

Although none of the non-ISKCON Gaudiya Camps like Sarvabhavana for a number of reasons some of them secretly admit that his translation may be the most accurate English translation of all.

 

so you mean that Sarvabhavana is the most accurate?

 

how can i get that book?

[Beggar]

 

so you mean that Sarvabhavana is the most accurate?

 

how can i get that book?

Check out krishna.com. I don't see it in their current list. You might want to call or e-mail them. The Narayana Maharaja group's version is good also. Their's is at the bhakti store www.bhaktistore.info/ You can also download different editions for free.

[theist]

 

hey thanks theist now I remembered something, I am looking for the jaiva dharma book but it is said that the "gaudiya matha's version" is not as it is and there is another jaiva dharm from the translator of Caitanya Bhagavata, I don't remember his name now but Srila Prabhupada gives him the service of translation.... have you some references?

 

thanks

 

There is one from Narayana Maharaja's camp. Do you mean Sarvabhavanna das?

 

I read the one from NM some years back. Never saw the GM one and I have Iskcon's on the Vedabase but haven't read it.

 

No specific referrences. Just that each camp has it's own flavor preferrence it seems so when reading anything I hope to someday hear only Krsna's voice. I take in scriptures and lectures much differently then I used too. I have almost no interest in trying to gather anymore than a solid gist of things from what I read. No faith in translators what to speak of the fact that my crazy mind acts as a filter (distorter). The revelation needs to come from Krsna.

[theist]

I see that question has been answered.

[indulekhadasi]

I know I am interrupting the conversation here but I just wanted to say haribol here. I am in Mayapur on a really slow computer but I just wanted to say I have finally fulfilled my dream of having darsan of Ekachakrapura where I went yesterday. It was amazing. I would tell you more about it but I have a time limit here. So I will tell you more when I come back. And oh yeah, Theist prabhuji we got Uddhava Gita in Vrindavana a week ago. Hare Krishna!

[mahak]

Slow computers are okay, they just reminded me of the holy land.:eek:

 

But to this topic, A letter from Parbhupada that starts out, "Dear Mahaksa Das", such a letter would be an eternal treasure, and the content would be my life goal regardless of anything anyone else ever said to me, ever.

 

If I read a letter that starts out, "dear <somebody other than me> das", am I not interfering in a personal matter. In fact, isnt this a human rights violation?

 

Srila Prabhupada is expert in communication. If a personal letter to a disciple is meant to be viewed by others, such permission would be granted in the content of such a letter. I have often made this opinion known to those who reject his books in favor of personal letters to others.

 

Only those who subvertly deny the fact of individual personality go for this nonsense. Only those who were asleep when Srila Prabhupada always referred to letters from Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati to various disciples were an intricate part of GM confusion about guru tattwa would use personal letters as authoritive.

 

When Srila Prabhupada writes, "Dear ----das", everthing in that letter is direct personal instruction from prabhupada to the INDIVIDUAL disciple.

 

His instructions to all who dont have any letters from him to you are fully present in his published books. If there is something missing after one realizes everything contained in those books, well, maybe that person will not learn anything else anyway.

 

The letters are good in the sense that they can be seen in ways contrary to what the letter pushers desire. Just like mad quoters disease, often the quote they provide is the very thing that defeats their proposals.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[theist]

 

I know I am interrupting the conversation here but I just wanted to say haribol here. I am in Mayapur on a really slow computer but I just wanted to say I have finally fulfilled my dream of having darsan of Ekachakrapura where I went yesterday. It was amazing. I would tell you more about it but I have a time limit here. So I will tell you more when I come back. And oh yeah, Theist prabhuji we got Uddhava Gita in Vrindavana a week ago. Hare Krishna!

 

You never interupt. Thats great. Means it will arrive here soon. I take it it is being printed in India. I hope all is going well on your pilgrimage and it sounds like it is.

 

Hare Krsna

[theist]

I disagree Mahak. I am glad we have them. It is easy in a letter to determine what is meant specifically for the person and what is general siddhanta. Similar to a specific question being asked in a class. The guru answers addressing the individual but the answer is applicable to all.

 

I have read them and rarely is there any very personal information that is only for the person in question beyond something like "Yes you should get married.." etc.

 

He did not have them filed as Top Secret. I don't see a human rights violation by any means.

 

And as far as proving anything from them I am not interested in proving anything to anyone. When I use them I am only trying to show my source for my opinion in question and that I am not just concocting something out of the blue.

 

Oh and just because there was some counterfeit letter written doesn't invalidate the rest. Invaluable words of inspiration in those letters.

[mahak]

I see your point, theist. Im a bit jaded about the arrangement of these letters rather than the content. My objection is where the time of the letters is disregarded by the ones using them for their purposes and not necessarily his. (I.e. some say that letters written in 1969 are invalid because of letters written in 1974, yet when I countered by producing a 1975 letter that defeated their 1972 letter, they backtracked and even had the gall to say that he was patronizing the recipient of the letter). I guess I could say I like the letters, but hardly ever understand the points trying to be made by the users of these letters.

 

The letters are pure nectar in and of themselves, sorry I seemed to say something different previously.

[theist]

No no Mahak. I understand your frustration. It is the way they are used. All these silly formulas like 1970 trumps 1969 etc. That crap drives me crazy also. They do the same with tapes. I asked Ramesvara why he thought he was guru and he said, "I have a tape to prove it. Unfortunately I left it in LA." We were in Honolulu. LOL I knew right then he was full of ***t. Acarya is self-effulent. No one forgets to bring their effulgence with them. Damn little weasel.

 

I gotta ask, What are we trying to prove to each other? Why are we so desparate to be seen as right? "It says here...!" We are not big big philosophers. We are just tiny little souls fallen into darkness and we should be thankful that the Lord can even see us to save us.

 

Like you brought out in your thread Hare Krsna. It's all about glorifying the name of the Lord. Thanks for the reality check.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

I heard the best tapes are from May of '77.

 

Oh, wait, that's the Grateful Dead.

 

[cbrahma]

Tapes, lectures, videos, letters books all of which have timestamps and versions.

And there are enough apparent contradictions in these to foster all sorts of confusion and party rivalry - especially on the subject of guru-tattva.

[Guruvani]

 

Tapes, lectures, videos, letters books all of which have timestamps and versions.

And there are enough apparent contradictions in these to foster all sorts of confusion and party rivalry - especially on the subject of guru-tattva.

Srila Prabhupada's teachings have baby formula for the babies and solid food for adolescents.

The babies will nurse on the pablum and the adolescents will eat the solid food.

 

But, baby forumula does not satisfy kids who are cutting their teeth on Gaudiya siddhanta.

They need solid food to chew on.

 

You can find solid food in the books of Srila Prabhupada, but his letters are mostly baby formula.

 

There comes a point when you prefer fried curd to infant formula.

If you want fried curd you can also find that in the books of Srila Prabhupada.

 

He tried to nourish all classes of men, but finding the solid food means passing over the baby formula which requires a little intelligence.

[Beggar]

 

He tried to nourish all classes of men, but finding the solid food means passing over the baby formula which requires a little intelligence.

 

The problem arises as Srila Sridhar Maharaj said some twenty-six years ago, "when the lower section comes to oppose the higher section." About the GBC he said, "they are coming to attack what they are trying to become." Such is life in the greater ISKCON community which includes cyberspace almost three decades later, with no end in sight.

[Guruvani]

 

 

You can find solid food in the books of Srila Prabhupada, but his letters are mostly baby formula.

 

We can find the babies by looking at the food they like.

[cbrahma]

 

Srila Prabhupada's teachings have baby formula for the babies and solid food for adolescents.

The babies will nurse on the pablum and the adolescents will eat the solid food.

 

But, baby forumula does not satisfy kids who are cutting their teeth on Gaudiya siddhanta.

They need solid food to chew on.

 

You can find solid food in the books of Srila Prabhupada, but his letters are mostly baby formula.

 

There comes a point when you prefer fried curd to infant formula.

If you want fried curd you can also find that in the books of Srila Prabhupada.

 

He tried to nourish all classes of men, but finding the solid food means passing over the baby formula which requires a little intelligence.

I see you have decided which of these media are pablum - and which real food. In other words you understand the guru's mind.