Srila Prabhupada's letters

[Beggar]

 

I see you have decided which of these media are pablum - and which real food. In other words you understand the guru's mind.

You can begin to understand the mind of the diksa guru with the help of the siksa guru.

[cbrahma]

 

You can begin to understand the mind of the diksa guru with the help of the siksa guru.

Here comes the big sell. That would be Guruvani?

[Guruvani]

 

I see you have decided which of these media are pablum - and which real food. In other words you understand the guru's mind.

I have never seen a single instruction of Srila Prabhupada where he orders that we gather together all his personal letters to disciples and study them as if they are shastra.

 

Srila Prabhupada said "Everything I have to say I have said in my books".

 

So, it doesn't take much to understand the mind of Srila Prabhupada if you just listen to his instructions.

 

He never told any disciple to follow or study the letters he sent to other individual disciples.

 

This collecting of letters and making a database with which to try and extrapolate the siddhanta is an unauthorized program that Srila Prabhupada NEVER approved!

[sevabhakta]

That would be whomever is preaching and backing what they say by the siddhanta as given by their own chosen acarya.

 

As far as opinions about what is pablum and what is stronger meal, it may be somewhat relative to the perciever, but why attack a guy for what seems to be a reasonable categorization of the broad general realm of the process of instruction?

 

Cbrahma's made this statement, "I see you have decided which of these media are pablum - and which real food."

 

This is a poor conclusion which is unfounded based on anything Guruvani actually said.

[Guruvani]

The program to collect all the letters or Srila Prabhupada into a central database for everyone to read was not authorized by Srila Prabhupada.

 

Srila Prabhupada said "read my books".

That is what he ordered.

 

The letter archive program is an ISKCON concoction that was never approved by Srila Prabhupada.

 

Srila Prabhupada never authorized all of his disciples to nose around into all his personal letters to specific disciples.

To do so is unauthorized.

[Beggar]

 

You can begin to understand the mind of the diksa guru with the help of the siksa guru.

 

Here comes the big sell. That would be Guruvani?

Sell or no sell. The principle of siksa guru is universal.

[cbrahma]

 

Sell or no sell. The principle of siksa guru is universal.

What does that have to do with Guruvani's sweeping pronouncement regarding the importance of Prabhupada's letters

[Beggar]

 

What does that have to do with Guruvani's sweeping pronouncement regarding the importance of Prabhupada's letters

Maybe a realized soul can detect if a letter is by another realized soul or by his unrealized (or partially realized) secretary. Perhaps such a person could detect whether an instruction in a letter by a realized soul is for universal application or time, place and circumstance. Or maybe we intuitively have the right answer but we are receiving opposition from others, so need some clarification.

[suchandra]

 

The program to collect all the letters or Srila Prabhupada into a central database for everyone to read was not authorized by Srila Prabhupada.

 

Srila Prabhupada said "read my books".

That is what he ordered.

 

The letter archive program is an ISKCON concoction that was never approved by Srila Prabhupada.

 

Srila Prabhupada never authorized all of his disciples to nose around into all his personal letters to specific disciples.

To do so is unauthorized.

It is authorized by the present GBC/BBT/SAC and therefore we can't be blamed when quoting Prabhupada's letters. Where did Pranhupada ever say, don't read the letters I sent to my disciples? Prabhupada surely knew that his disciples would show their Prabhupada letters to other devotees and therefore wrote these letters in such a way that everyone can read.

[Beggar]

 

Prabhupada surely knew that his disciples would show their Prabhupada letters to other devotees and therefore wrote these letters in such a way that everyone can read.

What evidence do you have to support your opinion?

[mahak]

No one has ever commented on this proposal. That no letter from prabhupada to a disciple is allowed unless we see the letter the disciple wrote to him. This is not a jerk proposal, it is a wise one, because Bhagavatam does not have Maitreya Rsi spouting off. Maitreya is HEARING Questions from Sri Vidura. Yes, we want answers by citing the Lords Version, but the questions MUST be included.

 

These letters are a profound vehicle for creating false doctrine, and have been used consistantly for just that specific reason. Just as ridiculous if we never heard from King Pariksit, Sri Vidura, even Lord Chaitanya. What good are the answers by ramananda raya without the questioning of Lord Chaitanya.

 

But you all wont answer here either. What I want to see in order to consider the 1975 letter concerning guru tattwa to tusta krsna das without having access to the letter tusta wrote him, prior and subsequent written communication, confidentiality of the relationship between the guru and the disciple communicated with, the whole thing.

 

Otherwise, there is just those damn books he wrote.

 

mahaksadasa.

[cbrahma]

 

No one has ever commented on this proposal. That no letter from prabhupada to a disciple is allowed unless we see the letter the disciple wrote to him. This is not a jerk proposal, it is a wise one, because Bhagavatam does not have Maitreya Rsi spouting off. Maitreya is HEARING Questions from Sri Vidura. Yes, we want answers by citing the Lords Version, but the questions MUST be included.

 

These letters are a profound vehicle for creating false doctrine, and have been used consistantly for just that specific reason. Just as ridiculous if we never heard from King Pariksit, Sri Vidura, even Lord Chaitanya. What good are the answers by ramananda raya without the questioning of Lord Chaitanya.

 

But you all wont answer here either. What I want to see in order to consider the 1975 letter concerning guru tattwa to tusta krsna das without having access to the letter tusta wrote him, prior and subsequent written communication, confidentiality of the relationship between the guru and the disciple communicated with, the whole thing.

 

Otherwise, there is just those damn books he wrote.

 

mahaksadasa.

Religiously, legally, the problem of authority is innately circular. One has to accept that such and such (a letter) is a sign of authority before accepting its contents as authoritative etc...

Then people make pronouncements about the relative authority of certain generic types of communications, letters, books, tapes etc...

On what authority to they base these pronouncements?...and so it goes like a snake devouring itself.

Who needs this spawning confusion?

[theist]

 

No one has ever commented on this proposal. That no letter from prabhupada to a disciple is allowed unless we see the letter the disciple wrote to him. ...

 

I wouldn't make it a rule of some kind but I have often wished the same although the question is usually obvious from his response.

 

 

These letters are a profound vehicle for creating false doctrine, and have been used consistantly for just that specific reason.

 

Scriptures themselves are used to create false doctrine. The material world is inhabitated by the cheaters and the cheated. I have solved the doctrine problem for myself. The only doctrine for life that I try to share with others is the necessity for chanting the Holy Names of the one Supreme Lord coupled with a ahimsa based lifestyle, the Golden Rule.

 

And if approriate to the conversation I will try to work in the basics of aham brahmasmi, reincarnation, the evil of birth death old age and disease. Basics and basics only.

 

 

 

Just as ridiculous if we never heard from King Pariksit, Sri Vidura, even Lord Chaitanya. What good are the answers by ramananda raya without the questioning of Lord Chaitanya.

 

Well often in Coversations we see that Srila Prabhupada will misunderstand a certain question and give an answer that doesn't seem to relate. I just follow the answer. As a matter of fact for me it has always been my experience that when hearing lectures or reading books I get answers to questions I never even knew to ask. Anwsers first.

 

 

But you all wont answer here either. What I want to see in order to consider the 1975 letter concerning guru tattwa to tusta krsna das without having access to the letter tusta wrote him, prior and subsequent written communication, confidentiality of the relationship between the guru and the disciple communicated with, the whole thing.

 

Same thing. Everything can be misused, not just letters.

 

There are tons of gems in those letters and I am thankful for the access.

[mahak]

Im actually referring to letters that are obviously personal to the recipient, concerning specific duties, discrepancies, etc. These are highly personal guru disciple things that we may be interfering in, and pas through our imperfect judgements.

 

If we glean nectar we can use, this is certainly responsible. But I clearly refer to those who have made internet careers demeaning other devotees and disciples based on PERCEIVED undertones of displeasure of the spiritual master. Never do they consider the fortune of the chastized disciple, but they impeach the disciple, showing thay have no qualifications to speak on even the rudimentary aspects of the science of Bhakti Yoga.

 

There are certainly letters addressed to temple presidents that are specifrically meant to be broadcast, and these are truely lectures unto themselves.

 

Each person will have to decide how to interpret the intent of the letter, which must at least be considered, because time and place considerations are always brought up by the revisionists who preach letters over books. Books dont have as much option for one to even consider "what does he mean by that?"

 

haribol

[theist]

OK I gotcha. You are right. And now I understand your specific referrence.

[Guruvani]

Mahak has made some very valid points that I have to admit are a step ahead of my thinking on the issue of the letters.

 

Many times letters address the specific confusion or quandry of a specific disciple.

In offering guidance on certain issues the spiritual master has the option to respond to different disciples differently.

 

In one letter he might say that his disciple should not read the books of the previous acharyas and then in a conversation with another disciple he might say no - I didn't say that.

 

Certain disciples have certain capacities or limitations.

Understanding the mindset and capacity of one disciple, the spiritual master might offer different instructions than he offers to another on the same issue.

 

So, really, it is just not scientific for all the letters of Srila Prabhupada to all of the disciples that got letters to be carved in stone as siddhanta for all disciples for all time.

 

The letters should not be made public domain for anybody and everybody to probe into possibly getting the wrong idea based upon instructions to specific disciples.

 

that is my opinion....

 

Otherwise, the letter reading and preaching campaign was never authorized by Srila Prabhupada and probably for good reason.

[suchandra]

 

What evidence do you have to support your opinion?

Evidence, these Prabhupada letters were never treated like that those devotees who got a letter from Prabhupada were told to hire a safe and lock it up there so that nobody else could read. Prabhupada surely never demanded that the recipients of his letters have to hide that letter from others but it was rather like receiving nectar one wants at one point to share and discuss with others. At the same time letters were mainly written because someone had a question to be answered by Prabhupada for his/her own very specific individual situation. However, Prabhupada always answered in such a way like he answered questions after a lecture. And that's the reason why almost all these letters became public, these devotees felt that the content would also benefit others. Just like when you write a letter to the editor of a magazine, your letter and written reply are published to benefit others. That's how Prabhupada saw it, coz sometimes there were letters also published in Back to Godhead magizines. If you get a letter with a very personal/confidential content you naturally wouldn't show it to others, but it was contrawise, recipients of a letter coming from Prabhupada always felt like they have to share this knowledge with others, nectar of spiritual wisdom inspiring the disciples to advance their service for their spiritual master. If you read a letter and feel that this doesnt give your situation anything, you naturally don't get into reading more distinct. But this was not the case, everybody reading the letter addressed to another devotee felt, that this is also benefits him.

[Guruvani]

Did the Gaudiya Matha disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur collect and centralize all the letters of Srila Saraswati Thakur to be read by anyone and everyone?

In fact, is there any such collection of personal letters in a central depository of any of the previous acharyas?

My guess is not likely.

 

ISKCON does all sorts of things that have never been done before by any previous acharya or even Srila Prabhupada.

 

Srila Prabhupada also told one lady disciple once that Krishna cartoon coloring books and children's books were nonsense.

Nowadays these kinds of things are just done without any precedent or authority.

 

Every Tom, Dick and Hairy that can put together a book is publishing some unauthorized book with questionable value.

 

If something is authorized by the GBC or any ISKCON committee that cannot be considered as authenticated by an acharya.

 

ISKCON is running wild with all sorts or speculation, politics and selfish ambition.

 

I don't put an ounce of credibility in anything the GBC or any ISKCON committee authorizes.

 

The "old boys club" of ISKCON is a cartel of ambitious devotees all hoping to make a career out of ISKCON or being an ISKCON guru.

 

I don't trust that gang of thugs for one nano-second.

[suchandra]

 

I don't trust that gang of thugs for one nano-second.

"You can show this letter to Sriman Sivananda and Sriman Uttama Sloka and my request to you all is not to be childish, but to be serious for propagating Krishna Consciousness."

 

"...doctors are very much fond of surgical operations. When there is no other alternative, of course we have to take shelter of such demonic treatment, but as far as possible try to avoid that, and depend on Krishna."

 

 

 

April 3, 1969 San Francisco, Calif.

http://sangalog3.blogspot.com/2005_04_03_archive.html

 

Dear Krishna das,

 

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated March 27, 1969, and I have carefully noted the contents.

 

In the first portion of the letter you have expressed your desire how to learn surrender. This surrendering process is unconditional. Surrendering does not mean that one should surrenderly only in favorable circumstances. That is not surrender. Surrender means in any condition the surrendering process must continue.

 

In the latter portion of your letter it appears that you have been disturbed on some trivial matters, and you wish to leave the place and go to London. That is not at all good. You must work conjointly. That is my desire, and if you fight amongst yourselves for some individual interests, that is not surrender. Whatever the other two boys may do, that I shall see, but unto you my request is that you must remain in Hamburg until I order you to leave the place.

 

I understand that you have sent passage money to Jaya Govinda. Let him come first. He is a very sensible boy, and I hope on his arrival there will be no dissension. Last night, one German boy was initiated by me, and he will be entrusted for rendering all my books in German language. There will be now no difficulty to publish the German edition of Back To Godhead therefore, in your newly purchased press.

 

You should take the indication given by Lord Krishna: The press is already there, the press worker, Jaya Govinda, is coming, and the German scholar has joined our institution. Don't you see the indication by Krishna that we must make propaganda in the German language in that part of the world? So you have to adjust things by the indication of Lord Krishna.

 

Don't do anything whimsically. The direction comes through the Spiritual Master, and any one who abides by the order of the Spiritual Master to give shape to the wish of the Lord, he is perfectly surrendered soul. So don't be childish, stay there. Let Jaya Govinda come and begin printing the BTG. Go altogether in Sankirtana Party and try to sell BTGs.

 

In other centers they are doing very nicely with this. Sometimes they are selling more than 100 copies of BTG and collecting $130.00 or $150.00. The Los Angeles temple has become unique in this connection. They have decorated the temple room so nicely that in the Love Feast and any other ceremony, hundreds of people are coming. Why don't you follow this example and try to exert your energies to make your temple more important than Los Angeles?

 

In the spiritual world there is also competition, but the center is always Krishna. In the material world there is competition, but the center is sense gratification. That is the difference. So competition, disagreement, or even dissension, if they are there, and the center is Krishna, such disagreement is not material. Even in Krishna Loka, there are rival parties of Srimati Radharani whose name is Candrabali, and there is competition between the two parties how to serve Krishna the best.

 

So you are all good souls, please do not be agitated in trivial things. Do your duty nicely, develop the center as nicely as possible. If you think that your personality has been minimized, you can tolerate it. That is very nice.

 

Lord Caitanya has taught us to be more tolerant than the tree in the matter of chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. You can show this letter to Sriman Sivananda and Sriman Uttama Sloka, and my request to you all is not to be childish, but to be serious for propagating Krishna Consciousness.

 

Regarding your other points, I am pleased that you are trying for legalization of our society. This has been already done both in London and the United States. As for your eye trouble, you need not take to an operation for your sickness. Doctors are not the Ultimate Healer. This is Krishna's position.

 

In your Western countries, the doctors are very much fond of surgical operations. When there is no other alternative, of course we have to take shelter of such demonic treatment, but as far as possible try to avoid that, and depend on Krishna.

 

I hope this will meet you in good health.

 

Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

[Guruvani]

 

"You can show this letter to Sriman Sivananda and Sriman Uttama Sloka and my request to you all is not to be childish, but to be serious for propagating Krishna Consciousness."

 

So, that proves my point.

Srila Prabhupada specifically authorized his disciple to share that letter with two other disciples.

 

This example clearly demonstrates that Srila Prabhupada would authorize a disciple to share a letter with other specific disciples.

 

From this example I can see that the letters of the spiritual master can only be shared if they are directly authorized to be shared by Srila Prabhupada.

[suchandra]

 

So, that proves my point.

Srila Prabhupada specifically authorized his disciple to share that letter with two other disciples.

 

This example clearly demonstrates that Srila Prabhupada would authorize a disciple to share a letter with other specific disciples.

 

From this example I can see that the letters of the spiritual master can only be shared if they are directly authorized to be shared by Srila Prabhupada.

 

Prabhupada knew very well that disciples living together in a temple couldnt hide things from each other and especially a letter coming from Prabhupada, others were so curious to know what Prabhupada had written, how to hide this from others? Basically, the problems which Prabhupada had to address in these letters - all the disciples had more or less these same problems.

[Guruvani]

 

Prabhupada knew very well that disciples living together in a temple couldnt hide things from each other and especially a letter coming from Prabhupada, others were so curious to know what Prabhupada had written, how to hide this from others? Basically, the problems which Prabhupada had to address in these letters - all the disciples had more or less these same problems.

 

Maybe, maybe not.

But, you can't support that with the directs statements of Srila Prabhupada.

 

If you can, then please do.

[suchandra]

 

Maybe, maybe not.

But, you can't support that with the directs statements of Srila Prabhupada.

 

If you can, then please do.

When reading a letter of somebody else it is anyway clear that this letter was written for somebody else who asked Prabhupada a specific question, a question which we mostly even don't know, because we only read Prabhupada's answer. So, I'm sure that people read such a letter with that understanding that it was meant for someone else and not for me but that Prabhupada put nectar into his letters to benefit others also. You read it and say, this corresponds with my situation also and you feel you got some benefit by reading it. Are you saying that each and every Prabhupada letter you read didnt give you anything?

I know many devotees who say that reading Prabhupada's letters makes them feel enriched.

[mahak]

Certainly there is sharing. No one would accept that someone who is temple president would not relay Srila Prabhupadas instructions to those whom he has accepted responsibility for, as direct service to srila prabhupada. But are we to believe that Srila Prabhupadas additional instructions in that letter, such as how to keep the overbearing sanyassi sneakin into a TPs domaine in line, or a personal commentary to help a particular devotee with a particular anartha to overstep, are we to believe that they be shared by everyone at the Sunday Feast? Bad analogy? No way, it is spot on.

 

Im quite advanced at 24, I have independently accepteed vegetarianism at age 15 when no one did that at the time (1965). Ive been chanting since 67, investigating, having unreal association from the likes of a whos who in late sixties hare krsnas. Now Im initiated, in 74. A member in good standuing in ISKCON, some would say a rising star. Do I really think that a letter Srila Prabhupada has written to Goursundar das, TP of Hawaii, personal caretaker of Srila Prabhupada for many years, do I have the arrogance to think that this letter is to be shared word for word? Absolutely not, I will wait for later, when Goursundara gives us the message.

 

It is arrognace, these letter freaks. I mean, I get nectar from them, I admit. After all, it is Prabhupada who is the author, equal to all, seeing us all in our very best light eternally. But is there no confidentiality? If I remember right, "Confidential" is a common word used in Prabhupadas teachings. Dioes not srila prabhupada, as a spiritual master to a particular disciple, have the right to instruct personally his disciple specifically to meet his needs? (Spot on GV, we agree on a few thiongs, eh?) I have even gone so far as to tell these letter freaks that they are guilty of international human rights violations, and federal felonies per US Statute. (Again, I hope folks see the distinction to what Im speaking of and the stuff me and theist were submitting earlier this AM)

 

This is why, when I read a letter specifically published to embarass a particular godbrother of mine, I read the same letter and see that this disciple is getting awesome instruction personally that we do not get because we are not yet qualified to hear. They say he was patronizing him, I read the same letter and I say he was empowering him.

 

Haribol, everyone is correct here, there is no one who is acting like the "letter freaks" I refer to. ys, mahaksadasa

[suchandra]

 

Certainly there is sharing. No one would accept that someone who is temple president would not relay Srila Prabhupadas instructions to those whom he has accepted responsibility for, as direct service to srila prabhupada. But are we to believe that Srila Prabhupadas additional instructions in that letter, such as how to keep the overbearing sanyassi sneakin into a TPs domaine in line, or a personal commentary to help a particular devotee with a particular anartha to overstep, are we to believe that they be shared by everyone at the Sunday Feast? Bad analogy? No way, it is spot on.

 

Im quite advanced at 24, I have independently accepteed vegetarianism at age 15 when no one did that at the time (1965). Ive been chanting since 67, investigating, having unreal association from the likes of a whos who in late sixties hare krsnas. Now Im initiated, in 74. A member in good standuing in ISKCON, some would say a rising star. Do I really think that a letter Srila Prabhupada has written to Goursundar das, TP of Hawaii, personal caretaker of Srila Prabhupada for many years, do I have the arrogance to think that this letter is to be shared word for word? Absolutely not, I will wait for later, when Goursundara gives us the message.

 

It is arrognace, these letter freaks. I mean, I get nectar from them, I admit. After all, it is Prabhupada who is the author, equal to all, seeing us all in our very best light eternally. But is there no confidentiality? If I remember right, "Confidential" is a common word used in Prabhupadas teachings. Dioes not srila prabhupada, as a spiritual master to a particular disciple, have the right to instruct personally his disciple specifically to meet his needs? (Spot on GV, we agree on a few thiongs, eh?) I have even gone so far as to tell these letter freaks that they are guilty of international human rights violations, and federal felonies per US Statute. (Again, I hope folks see the distinction to what Im speaking of and the stuff me and theist were submitting earlier this AM)

 

This is why, when I read a letter specifically published to embarass a particular godbrother of mine, I read the same letter and see that this disciple is getting awesome instruction personally that we do not get because we are not yet qualified to hear. They say he was patronizing him, I read the same letter and I say he was empowering him.

 

Haribol, everyone is correct here, there is no one who is acting like the "letter freaks" I refer to. ys, mahaksadasa

Thanks for this, actually when reading your post, I realized that I only came to read Prabhupada's letters since they are posted on the internet and they have a section where they post the letters with the current date, like all the letters Prabhupada wrote on the 8th of December.

Before I didnt read any letters and also have not the Prabhupada letters anthology.