Prabhupada's Enhanced Presentation

Guruvani · December 6, 2007

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Srimad Bhagavatam 7.10.13

bhogena punyam kusalena papam

kalevaram kala-javena hitva

kirtim visuddham sura-loka-gitam

vitaya mam esyasi mukta-bandhah

SYNONYMS

bhogena -- by feelings of material happiness; punyam -- pious activities or their results; kusalena -- by acting piously (devotional service is the best of all pious activities); papam -- all kinds of reactions to impious activities; kalevaram -- the material body; kala-javena -- by the most powerful time factor; hitva -- giving up; kirtim -- reputation; visuddham -- transcendental or fully purified; sura-loka-gitam -- praised even in the heavenly planets; vitaya -- spreading all through the universe; mam -- unto Me; esyasi -- you will come back; mukta-bandhah -- being liberated from all bondage.

TRANSLATION

My dear Prahlada, while you are in this material world you will exhaust all the reactions of pious activity by feeling happiness, and by acting piously you will neutralize impious activity. Because of the powerful time factor, you will give up your body, but the glories of your activities will be sung in the upper planetary systems, and being fully freed from all bondage, you will return home, back to Godhead.

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

This verse is a good example of the particular brand or bent of translation that Srila Prabhupada BHAKTIVEDANTA is famous for.

The verse says

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> mam -- unto Me; esyasi -- you will come back; </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Yet, Srila Prabhupada adds his familiar flair for translation by translating it as

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> you will return home, back to Godhead. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

There is no Sanskrit word for HOME in the verse.

In the verse, the Lord says "unto me you will come".

Specifically the word esyasi is used.

In this verse Srila Prabhupada says it means "you will come BACK", but in every other incident of the Vedabase search the word means:

Quote:

eṣyasi — you will attain; BG 8.7

eṣyasi — you will come; BG 9.34

eṣyasi — you will come; BG 18.65

eṣyasi — you will come; SB 11.29.41-44

eṣyasi — you will come; CC Madhya 22.57-58 </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

So, most often the word does not mean "come back" but "you will attain" or "you will come".

So, this is a good example of where the "Back to Godhead" theme is used when actually there is NO such terms in the verse to actually mean "return HOME back to Godhead".

This shows the particular twist or bent that Srila Prabhupada employed in his preaching and his translating.

He inserts meanings and terms that are not actually strictly found in the original Sanskrit.

So, really, Srila Prabhupada didn't strictly TRANSLATE the books as much as he retold the verses in his own way according to how he thought was the best way to present this knowledge to the English speaking world.

Some devotees who have learned Sanskrit have "moved on" from the Bhaktivedanta purports for a more literal classical rendering of the texts without the particular flavor and flair of Srila Prabhupada.

I am not saying I have moved on, but I can see how the scholarly section of devotees might feel a need to directly go to the shastra, learn the language and study the texts directly without the particular psychology and preaching style of Srila Prabhupada.

CCC · December 7, 2007

Lectures & Classes 740708AR.LA

Arrival Address

--

Los Angeles, July 8, 1974

Prabhupada: So I thank you very much for your kind reception. It is necessary.

saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair

uktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih

kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya

vande guroh sri-caranaravindam

This is the process, Vedic process, to receive the transcendental knowledge through the parampara system, and the reception or honor given to the spiritual master, it goes to Krsna. Spiritual master is the official collector. Just like in government there is collector. He receives the money, taxes, from the citizens, not for his personal use but for the government. Similarly, this is the Vedic system, to receive knowledge through the transparent medium, guru, and to receive... Guru means the honor goes to Krsna. So this is necessary. This is not an artificial thing, but spiritually it is necessary. Therefore we hold Vyasa-puja day.

So I am very glad to see that you are maintaining the temple standard as good as I saw when I left. That is my satisfaction. And keep this, I mean to say, situation, atmosphere, always, and follow the regulative principles, chant sixteen rounds. You'll remain always happy, because although we are in Los Angeles, we have nothing to do with the material atmosphere of Los Angeles. Therefore a devotee who lives with Krsna or in Krsna consciousness, he does not live in the material world. He always live in the spiritual world. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita. Mam cavyabhicarini-bhakti-yogena yah sevate: "Anyone who is engaged in bhakti-yoga with Krsna," sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate, "such person is always above these material modes of nature." Our difficulty or miserable condition of life is due to being under the material laws of nature. So it is very simple method, and you are all intelligent boys and girls in the Western country, and I am very, happy that you have taken it seriously. And continue this. You'll never be unhappy. And not only here but also, as Krsna said, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru, if you simply practice these four principle--always think of Krsna, man-mana, or become Krsna's devotees and offer Krsna obeisances and worship Krsna--these four... We are teaching these four principle in the temple, how to worship Krsna how to serve Krsna, how to become Krsna's devotee, and how to think of Krsna twenty-four hours. And if we do this, there is guarantee. Krsna says, mam eva esyasi asamsaya: "Without any doubt, you will come to Me. You will go back to home, back to Godhead."

krsna · December 7, 2007

Lectures & Classes 740708AR.LA

Arrival Address

--

Los Angeles, July 8, 1974

Prabhupada: So I thank you very much for your kind reception. It is necessary.

saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair

uktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih

kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya

vande guroh sri-caranaravindam

This is the process, Vedic process, to receive the transcendental knowledge through the parampara system, and the reception or honor given to the spiritual master, it goes to Krsna. Spiritual master is the official collector. Just like in government there is collector. He receives the money, taxes, from the citizens, not for his personal use but for the government. Similarly, this is the Vedic system, to receive knowledge through the transparent medium, guru, and to receive... Guru means the honor goes to Krsna. So this is necessary. This is not an artificial thing, but spiritually it is necessary. Therefore we hold Vyasa-puja day.

So I am very glad to see that you are maintaining the temple standard as good as I saw when I left. That is my satisfaction. And keep this, I mean to say, situation, atmosphere, always, and follow the regulative principles, chant sixteen rounds. You'll remain always happy, because although we are in Los Angeles, we have nothing to do with the material atmosphere of Los Angeles. Therefore a devotee who lives with Krsna or in Krsna consciousness, he does not live in the material world. He always live in the spiritual world. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita. Mam cavyabhicarini-bhakti-yogena yah sevate: "Anyone who is engaged in bhakti-yoga with Krsna," sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate, "such person is always above these material modes of nature." Our difficulty or miserable condition of life is due to being under the material laws of nature. So it is very simple method, and you are all intelligent boys and girls in the Western country, and I am very, happy that you have taken it seriously. And continue this. You'll never be unhappy. And not only here but also, as Krsna said, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru, if you simply practice these four principle--always think of Krsna, man-mana, or become Krsna's devotees and offer Krsna obeisances and worship Krsna--these four... We are teaching these four principle in the temple, how to worship Krsna how to serve Krsna, how to become Krsna's devotee, and how to think of Krsna twenty-four hours. And if we do this, there is guarantee. Krsna says, mam eva esyasi asamsaya: "Without any doubt, you will come to Me. You will go back to home, back to Godhead."

:pray:

Guruvani · December 7, 2007

Krsna says, mam eva esyasi asamsaya: "Without any doubt, you will come to Me. You will go back to home, back to Godhead."

But, the quotation marks should only surround "Without any doubt, you will come to Me." The second part "You will go back to home, back to Godhead." is not a translation of mam eva esyasi asamsaya, rather a commentary on the statement by Srila Prabhupada.

mām — unto Me; eva — surely; eṣyasi — you will attain; asaḿśayaḥ — beyond a doubt.

There is nothing in these Sanskrit words about HOME or Godhead.

Krishna says "unto me surely you will attain beyond a doubt".

Kulapavana · December 7, 2007

I tink it is important to distinguish between a translation and a commentary. Sometimes it is hard to avoid, as we tend to put our understanding of the verse into the translation. Still, adding completely additional text to the translation itself is seen as not very scholarly.

Srila Prabhupada's translations are actually very seldom used in academic circles because he adds a lot of his commentary to the translated verses. However, for a rank and file devotee that is perfectly acceptable.

In the above listed verses the "BACK" to Godhead part is simply Prabhupada's way of presenting Krsna Consciousness. It is more like a preaching campaign slogan then a hard truth. There is no sanskrit term for "back to Godhead" used in shastras. Shastras simply speak of attaining God, or coming to Him.

I think Prabhupada was simply using the well known (from Abrahamic religions) in the western world concept of returning to Paradise Lost to promote Krsna consciousness.

CCC · December 7, 2007

I know from other sources the origin of the jiva if someone wants more info write me a PM

mahak · December 7, 2007

Sri Gurudeva is a personality that speaks directly to disciple. A disciple is someone who has an inherant culture, a means of communication. So guru, who is inspired by Lord Nityananda to go retrieve that sleeper:eek4:, will somewhat adapt to that cultural communication. We have heard the disclaimer about time and place, and this is what is meant. Not changing meaning at all, the messaGE OF vYASADEVA IS INTACT, FULLY.

The referral to home is clearly discussed in the content of his teachiongs, the teachings of Lord Vyasadeva, the person's residence, in a variegated world.

mam esyasi means "You will come to me." Me (Krsna) also means his home, his environment, his devotee, his name. You may not like the word "back", or "return". Maybe you dont like "mam".

But let me ask, is yudhisthiras trek north to go back home the same as Sisupalas trek. Both of them mam esyasied, but one went home, one lost his identity. Its kinda essential to the science, this understanding of home as compared to the other "mam" like kamsa and sisupala and ravana attained.

Or is it just "Back" that you are referring to. This could be a problem, because when the topic The sinister movement came up, my potential commenatry was never even discussed, and I never wrote because I was in fear of the nutso peeing all over everything. Srila Prabhupada objected to the German title, eliminating "Back to Godhead." His displeasure expressed about his disciples capricious decision to make such a change and remove "BACK" from his teachings, well, Im never going there. Back to Godhead is perfect and complete, to me, call me a fanatic who doesnt understand sanskrit language and nuance like jagat prabhu, but frankly, my deah, I dont give a damn.

mam esyasi means that Krsna really wants us to come BACK to Him, come back to Godhead

Guruvani · December 7, 2007

You may not like the word "back", or "return". Maybe you dont like "mam".

Maybe you shouldn't put words in the mouth of others or make denigrating insinuations out of anger or spite?

What I like is the raw siddhanta.

I don't feel like I have to be treated like an idiot who cannot accept the Bhagavad-gita or Srimad Bhagavatam as they are without a whole lot of psychological treatment along with it.

Devotees will become devotees and mayavadis will be mayavadis.

I don't see how the raw siddhanta itself has the potential to give the wrong impression or confuse me with any mayavada.

I never needed to be told that I came from Goloka to cherish the ideal or attaining to Goloka through devotional service.

Being told that I came out of the brahmajyoti to the material world does not hinder my acceptance of the Personality of Godhead, his personal abode and devotional service as the highest spiritual position.

Unlike some others, it is not hard for me to understand that finite jivas can evolve beyond the brahmajyoti to become personal servant of the Personality of Godhead.

It appears that there is a class of devotee that feel greatly unable to accept that the jiva comes out of the brahmajyoti of Krishna with the potential to attain spiritual bodies in the spiritual world.

Myself, it doesn't matter.

If I accept that my soul came out of the brahmajyoti of Krishna, that doesn't mean I cannot accept that beyond the brahmajyoti is a higher spiritual platform of devotional service.

Maybe others need the pablum fairytale of the fall-from-goloka for them to accept devotional service.

I don't.

Maybe that is why Srila Prabhupada preached the fairytale version because he knew that certain souls cannot otherwise easily accept Krishna consciousness?

But, I don't believe that the fairytale is really a solid fact of Gaudiya siddhanta.

It is a preaching device, a fable that helps certain types of conditioned souls to accept what they otherwise would not accept.

Myself, I don't need the fairytale to accept that Goloka is the highest spiritual existence.

In fact, the fall-from-goloka concept to me contradicts everything the shastra says about the nitya-siddhas, the protection of Krishna and the infallible status of the liberated devotees of Krishna.

So, ultimately, I can't accept that Srila Prabhupada really taught that.

I think he sort of encouraged some devotees to think like that because he thought it would be the only way they could accept and that when they mature they will understand the fairytale is just a fairytale and get over it.