Hare Krsna

[mahak]

See, the whole message of Krsna and the Great Acaryas is there in the title of this topic. Need I say more?

 

Well, since this is a forum, I digress. I apologize to the forum members for being such a grouch. Time seems short, though, to jar my memory of what Prahlada said to his classmates. And he was only 5. Yeah, his daddy was making this world and even the heavenly planets virtually unlivable by his exploitation of society and nature, so maybe these times today can be seen in that light. At any time, everything can change, zap, like that. The conspiracy theorists can say the NSA has a particle beam focussed on Mt Rainier, ready to create a Lahar that will give rise to martial law. Or the Bushies can provoke Ahmad-in-the-jihad into nuke war, boom, zap, lie dat, a flash in the pan that neither you, nor I will read about in tomorrows USAToday. No chance for us to log in to even say goodbye to gHari, Murali, Theist and the gang.

 

So, todays posts are very important. They are the only things we got to say, something of value, something to reflect the PROPER education we have adequately received, despite the great odds against such a thing (like education).

 

So, we reflect. And in doing so, we associate, but who do we associate with. If not the Acarya, then no one else is worth it, so we reflect the Acarya. We hear Prabhupada from the lips of his disciples. Is this not Parampara? While passing from this world, did he not promisew guidance forever from within the core of our hearts?

 

When we were taught to hit the deck when we see each other, offering humble obiesancies, is this done to the stoolbag we think we are? No, we hit the deck because there is our spiritual master, there is the person who has heard from the Acarya and is now speaking on His behalf. There is Supersoul who has revealed himself as the devotee of Krsna.

 

Anyway, time is short, and there IS time, to sing Jah Holy Name. Interpreting Psalm 40, I sing: (music to follow, if I find it)

 

Psalm 40

 

 

 

Patiently, I wait for the Lord

He turns to me and He hears me cry

He lifts me out of this slimy pit

Out of the muck and mire

He sets my feet upon the Rock

And gives me firm place to stand

He puts a New Song into my mouth

A song of praise to Sweet Lord

 

 

(Yet) I am poor and needy, may the Lord think of me

You are mny help and my deliverer

Oh, my Lord, please do not delay

 

 

Be pleased, Oh Lord, to save me, my heart fails within me

May Your Love and Your Truth always protect me

Troubles without number always surround me

My sins all defeat me, and I cannot see

 

 

(Yet) I am poor and needy, may the Lord think of me

You are mny help and my deliverer

Oh, my Lord, please do not delay

 

 

Be pleased, Oh Lord, to save me

Oh Lord, come quickly to help me

 

 

May all who seek to take my life be put to shame and confusion

May all who desire my ruin be turned back in disgrace

May all tose who say to me, "Aha Aha!" be appalled at their own plight

 

 

(Yet) I am poor and needy, may the Lord think of me

You are mny help and my deliverer

Oh, my Lord, please do not delay

 

 

May all those who seek You

Those who freely sing Your Names

Let them rejoice and be glad in You

Recognizing always Your Fame

May those who love Your salvation

Always say "The Lord be exalted!"

 

 

(Yet) I am poor and needy, may the Lord think of me

You are mny help and my deliverer

Oh, my Lord, please do not delay

 

 

 

Hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

 

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Beautiful!!

 

Truly, there is little time.

 

In the middle of one recent dark night of the soul, I told my sweetie, "There is no guarantee that the sun will rise tomorrow, so let us *pray*". Of what use are all of our mundane plans, when there is no guarantee that we will even live to see another sunrise?

 

I hear that some of the native peoples of the US used to rise before dawn to pray for the sun to rise. They believed that, without their interdiction, the day would not come.

 

So, the Vaishnavas rise before dawn with a differing understanding and a different purpose (or does it only *appear* different?).

 

In any case, time is short. Let us use our time wisely and give thanks for each sunrise (Om bhur bhuvah...).

[mahak]

another song is brewin, murali. A thousand years ago, when I had an echoplex and Gibson Birdland, I did the ol "Sunrise" song, very electric.

 

"Sunrise, he bring in di morning, sunrise, he leave in di evening, spreadin all the light all around". I think Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce Band wrote that un. Hes a cool god, eh?

 

Then, there is the great sunrise revelation at the great sunsplash, by the great yellowman himself.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko46_aXW_94

[gHari]

I saw the thread name and delighted thought "Ah some Hari Nama, at last!"

[HerServant]

Amen!

 

"Your Name spoken is a spreading perfume; that is why the maidens love You" - Song of Songs 1:3

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Well, I got my birthday present a bit early, and had to test it. More details on the "home grown kirtans" thread.

 

Solo kirtan from last night:

 

Embedded:

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Link:

http://www.esnips.com/doc/d14e40e1-38be-439d-b251-e5ff536c8589/Mahamantra-608

[cbrahma]

I don't chant anymore because of all the complications implicit in that process. Offering food as prasadam especially. I already avoid illicit sex,alcohol and meat-eating.

[Erik]

May my only mistake be a poor fund of intelligence, but what about this song....??

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbeVMSx1dyU

 

It's about a guy missing his girl....but i'm sure he will find her....

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

I don't chant anymore because of all the complications implicit in that process. Offering food as prasadam especially. I already avoid illicit sex,alcohol and meat-eating.

 

My intent is not to criticize, but, does this mean that you like to play poker?

 

I've "bragged" before that the only reg I *don't* have problems with is the gambling one.

[cbrahma]

 

My intent is not to criticize, but, does this mean that you like to play poker?

 

I've "bragged" before that the only reg I *don't* have problems with is the gambling one.

No. And I also am careful NOT to be initiated into these guru camps. That is the most dangerous sort of gambling.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

No. And I also am careful NOT to be initiated into these guru camps. That is the most dangerous sort of gambling.

I'm very sorry you feel that way. After all, it's kinda like a boy having a messy break-up with a girl and then swearing off girls for life. It's perfectly understandable, however, given what you have seen.

 

May you be blessed in all your spiritual endeavors.

[cbrahma]

 

I'm very sorry you feel that way. After all, it's kinda like a boy having a messy break-up with a girl and then swearing off girls for life. It's perfectly understandable, however, given what you have seen.

 

May you be blessed in all your spiritual endeavors.

I've had no such experience. The statistics speak for themselves. Just the amount of rivalry and division on this blog reflects the wider condition.

The guru-thing went really badly during the zonal acarya debacle.

We're talking 99% fall down here.

The GBC aftermath electing ten times the questionable gurus is worthy only of belly laughs and

healthy skepticism.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Most of them only "fell-down" once, twice or a handful of times before they realized the error of their ways. How many times will *you* fall down?

 

 

I've had no such experience. The statistics speak for themselves. Just the amount of rivalry and division on this blog reflects the wider condition.

The guru-thing went really badly during the zonal acarya debacle.

We're talking 99% fall down here.

The GBC aftermath electing ten times the questionable gurus is worthy only of belly laughs and

healthy skepticism.

[cbrahma]

 

Most of them only "fell-down" once, twice or a handful of times before they realized the error of their ways. How many times will *you* fall down?

First off. I'm not claiming to be a guru. In the second place, and I find it a bit hypocritical of you to defend ISKCON at this point, - Most of the fall-downs did not realize the error of their ways. They were exposed and forced to comply in some cases and in other, simply left.

 

The guru game is a crap shoot at best. I am not going to 'surrender' my life under those odds. You have to be really unintelligent to do so. It's investing in the Enron of Hinduism.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Sometimes going away is the best option to avoid making further offenses. It's a real shame you can't see that.

 

I want to be a "fool" just like Sriman Mahaprabhu.

 

http://vedabase.net/tlc/18/en

 

 

"My dear sir, My spiritual master considered Me a great fool," Lord Caitanya replied. "Therefore he has more or less punished Me by saying that because I am such a fool I have no capacity to study Vedānta. So in turn he gave Me the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. My spiritual master told Me, 'Just go on chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra: it will make You all-perfect.' "

 

 

First off. I'm not claiming to be a guru. In the second place, and I find it a bit hypocritical of you to defend ISKCON at this point, - Most of the fall-downs did not realize the error of their ways. They were exposed and forced to comply in some cases and in other, simply left.

 

The guru game is a crap shoot at best. I am not going to 'surrender' my life under those odds. You have to be really unintelligent to do so. It's investing in the Enron of Hinduism.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

The guru game is a crap shoot at best. I am not going to 'surrender' my life under those odds.

 

Relying on the mercy of the Lord is no crap-shoot. He assures us of that.

[mahak]

there is no diploma for guru, no credentials or verifiable job experiance blocks to study. Maybe the problem is with those who do have diplomas and credentials, they seem to be the ones who dont quite fit the bill.

 

Maybe guru comes from unlikely places. Bhaktisiddhanta approached a madman living in a cemetery eating food from a human skull, and this person refused to accept him, so bhaktisiddhanta, after failing three times, decided to commit suicide.

 

But Gaurakisora das babaji decided to let him in, to hook him up.

 

Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada had no sanction nor authority to accept disciples from his parent foundation, the Gaudiya Math. He appeared to be an old imigrant stumbling thru the bowery bums in the NY snow in 1966.

 

I dont go to the guru factory to select such a thing. Finding guru is an internal search, conducted by Guru Himself.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Wow!! Well said, Mahaksa-ji.

 

To add to what you say. "Choosing" a guru is not like chosing a medical school. It doesn't have to be about logic and reason. In fact, it's better if it's not. It's about being *captivated* by someone (so, the boy loves girl analogy is a good one). It's about having no other choice in one's heart but to surrender and serve. It's not about choosing what to eat at the buffet at Govinda's.

 

 

there is no diploma for guru, no credentials or verifiable job experiance blocks to study. Maybe the problem is with those who do have diplomas and credentials, they seem to be the ones who dont quite fit the bill.

 

Maybe guru comes from unlikely places. Bhaktisiddhanta approached a madman living in a cemetery eating food from a human skull, and this person refused to accept him, so bhaktisiddhanta, after failing three times, decided to commit suicide.

 

But Gaurakisora das babaji decided to let him in, to hook him up.

 

Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada had no sanction nor authority to accept disciples from his parent foundation, the Gaudiya Math. He appeared to be an old imigrant stumbling thru the bowery bums in the NY snow in 1966.

 

I dont go to the guru factory to select such a thing. Finding guru is an internal search, conducted by Guru Himself.

[Lokeshav]

Love You Mahak, ... U R Almost Krishna Now...

 

Shri Radhey

[cbrahma]

 

there is no diploma for guru, no credentials or verifiable job experiance blocks to study. Maybe the problem is with those who do have diplomas and credentials, they seem to be the ones who dont quite fit the bill.

 

Maybe guru comes from unlikely places. Bhaktisiddhanta approached a madman living in a cemetery eating food from a human skull, and this person refused to accept him, so bhaktisiddhanta, after failing three times, decided to commit suicide.

 

But Gaurakisora das babaji decided to let him in, to hook him up.

 

Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada had no sanction nor authority to accept disciples from his parent foundation, the Gaudiya Math. He appeared to be an old imigrant stumbling thru the bowery bums in the NY snow in 1966.

 

I dont go to the guru factory to select such a thing. Finding guru is an internal search, conducted by Guru Himself.

I always like what you say mahak. You are completely free from pious pretentiousness. You have the rare quality of sincerity mixed with high intelligence.

[Beggar]

Srila Govinda Maharaj,

Once a rival, a person from another philosophical camp, came to hear from Srila Sridhar Maharaj. That person was respected in the greater community as a great and erudite scholar. When Guru Maharaj saw him, he asked him why he had come to visit him. That man expressed, "That is because in you we see three unique qualities: super intelligence, a disinterested nature and strong common sense."

[Kulapavana]

 

Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada had no sanction nor authority to accept disciples from his parent foundation, the Gaudiya Math.

 

That is hardly the case. Prabhupada started accepting disciples soon after taking sannyasa. He initiated his first disciple in 1953 in Jhansi.

[cbrahma]

 

That is hardly the case. Prabhupada started accepting disciples soon after taking sannyasa. He initiated his first disciple in 1953 in Jhansi.

 

 

Soon after this realisation Abhay Charan Bhaktivedanta prabhu had a striking repetitive dream, one that he had as a householder. In the dream his spiritual master appeared, just as he knew him, a tall, scholarly 'sannyasi', 'Vaikuntha man', the pure representative of the Lord. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur indicated to Abhay Charan that it is time now to take 'sannyasa'. Repeatedly he called and motioned to the cloth. He was definitely asking Abhay Charan to take to the 'sannyasa' order.

When Abhay Charan awoke he pondered carefully the dream. "Abhay Charan dasa reasoned that his spiritual master was saying 'now take sannyasa and you will actually be able to accomplish this mission. Formerly the time was not right'."(Satswarupa dasa Goswami. 1987. "Your Ever Well-Wisher", page xxxiv.)

Humbly Abhay Charan (Bhaktivedanta prabhu) although apprehensive, approached his senior godbrother, Srila Bhakti Prajna Keshava Maharaj in Mathura, who stressed that Abhay Charan take 'sannyasam' immediately. September 17th 1959., he receives formal 'sannyasa' initiation in Mathura from Srila Bhakti Prajna Keshava Maharaj, a dear godbrother and senior disciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada. He was given the suffix Goswami to his name, and so carried the full name A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami.

 

Prabhupada was given the order in a dream by his guru Bhaktisidhanta.

There was no formal GBC approval.

[Kulapavana]

 

Prabhupada was given the order in a dream by his guru Bhaktisidhanta.

There was no formal GBC approval.

 

my point was that in GM there was no system of "guru approval". Prabhupada did not ask for anybody's approval.

 

The general Vedic and Vaishnava rule is that any duly initiated disciple can accept his own disciples after the disappearance of their guru, or with his guru's approval if his guru is still present.

 

Besides, Prabhupada made a point that his guru ordered him to take sannyasa, that much we know. We can assume that Prabhupada took it also as an implicit authorization from his guru to initiate disciples. Yet there never was a formal "guru approval" process in our tradition. At one time Prabhupada indicated that disciples who passed the Bhaktivedanta exam would be allowet to initiate, but that was never put in practice.

[mahak]

This is the point exactly. When we have mass approval of spiritual master, this is not the criteria. Romaraharsana had mass approval, yet Chaita Guru wasnt informed. Lord Balarama is the only one who authorized guru, he is the one who inspires a vaisnava to accept disciples on his behalf. If a GM or ISKCON or any other body assumes the role of deciding who is guru, then there is no guru tattwa as created by Lord Balarama involved. Its a crapshoot at best, meaning that such an appointee may be guru, but he may not be as well, and thus is a very dangerous assertation.

 

This is my only gripe ever with ISKCON. Not the mistakes, not the bad choices for leadership positions, such things happen in a large or even small institution, and can be corrected, reformed, solved, etc. But when they say such and such is the guru of such and such, this is not proper not accepted by the criteria of guru-shastra-sadhu.

 

It is one thing for me to say to someone, "I think BA Paramadvaiti Swami is a qualified guru in his own right, successfully carrying our parampara following in the footsteps of Srila Prabhupada." It is quite different for me to insist that he is someone else's guru. There is good biblical reference to this very point, an absolute truth given by Lord Jesus to his disciple simon, but Ill refrain from posting here out of respect to thoise who may not accept such things. The point made is that God directs guru to disciple and disciple to guru, no one else.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa