tatashta shakti - From my view

[Sarva gattah]

 

The basics of the origins debate

In fact constantly posting threads that we originated from Goloka can only cause many to become confused, frustrated, angry, and offensive because they cannot prove that Prabhupada did not say we all originally came down from Vaikuntha – which they will never prove because the fact is, our eternal home IS Goloka and always has been.

 

It is because their guru maharaj tells them they have originated from the impersonal Brahmajyoti, based on their interpretation of previous Acharyas and their often dubious translations from Sanskrit and Bengali into English, they have convinced themselves and their followers of an Impersonal origin.

 

Srila Prabhupada rejected such impersonal ideas because his teachings clearly tell us, we have all came down from Goloka some millions of years ago.

 

We are all nitya siddha and only manifest our nitya baddha condition when we choose to forget Krishna. All nitya baddha's are covered nitya siddha's.

 

All other understandings of nitya baddha, even preached by ANY Gurus and Swami and are nonsense.

 

Jiva tatastha manifests in the eternal present as nitya siddha which is the full devotional expression 'eternally' of all living entities.

 

The jiva tatastha NEVER starts out as nitya baddha, such a nonsense uneducated understanding, claiming the nitya-baddha jiva is like a child of a king who was born in a foreign land and has never been with his Father after being born, is from the 'impersonal Brahmajyoti-origins camp'.

 

Such an impersonal understanding denies the living entities eternal presents in Goloka. Such ideas mentioned above do not comprehend that our temporary presents in the mahat-tattva as nitya-baddha, is originally generated by the living entities self centered 'thoughts of imagination and the desire to be a god instead of serving God or Krishna'

 

In this way we all only think, imagine or 'dream' we are fallen, when in actual fact, our eternal nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body always remains perpetually established in Goloka or Vaikuntha, bounded by the 'eternal presents of Krishna Lila'

 

 

So the conclusion is, instead of arguing, just get on with the preaching message of Lord Caitanya, go on street Sankirtan every few days. Chant Hare Krishna and give out Prabhupada’s books. Sankirtan ki jai!!

Is the life of Srila Prabhupada

[Beggar]

 

... because there is no answer. He/they will simply mischaracterize what you've written yet again. It's a futile conversation.

 

[Sarva gattah]

 

 

Anyway back to the subject of tatastha s’akti for more clarification

 

The jiva-tatastha, the marginal living entity or jiva-tattva is 'eternally established' in their full potential in the eternal 'present' of Kingdom of God in their full expression as of nitya siddha.

It is there in Krishna's Kingdom as an eternal nitya siddha devotee, the living entity is perpetually engaged in a loving relationship with Krishna in Goloka, or a loving servitor relationship with Vishnu in Vaikuntha.

However, being tatastha s'akti of the Lord means the living entity has a choice and can also enter the material creation or mahat-tattva, not as their nitya siddha body, but as their nitya-baddha non <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> conscious condition of 'thought'.

The jiva tatastha or marginal living entity therefore, can use their free will and choose to either come under the dominion of the Cit Sakti, where the living entity is always aware of their nitya siddha eternal identity and body, or they can choose to forget their eternal nitya siddha body simply by the power of thought, imaginations and dreams.

If the living entity chooses to forget Krishna and their own eternal body that is always serving <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>, the living entity enters the stage-drama-play and dreams of Maha-Vishnu called the mahat-tattva or material worlds.

When entering the mahat-tattva, the living entity or nitya baddha jiva, comes under the influence Maya's s'akti, the wife of Maha Vishnu and provided bodily vessels that belong to and are part of the mahat-tattva.

[Beggar]

Meanwhile back at the Sleeper-vadi ranch...

 

If the living entity chooses to forget Krishna and their own eternal body that is always serving <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>, the living entity enters the stage-drama-play and dreams of Maha-Vishnu called the mahat-tattva or material worlds.

"...the living entity chooses to forget Krishna and their own eternal body that is always serving <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna." What a crock of brain dead bull dung!

You would have to be brain dead in this material body to believe such concocted nonsense. This rascal is alleging that some of the eternal servants of Krsna are like zombies in Krsna Loka. They will respond, "no , no we don't mean that" but look closely at this foolishness. And these are the same persons (person) who charge that Srila Prabhupada's prominent godbrothers are impersonalists without any support from guru, sadhu or sastra.

</st1:place>

[Guruvani]

This Gauragopal das from Australia does not speak for the majority of disciples of Srila Prabhupada, Srila Prabhupada or most of the ISKCON devotees.

 

He is a renegade thinker with some serious misunderstandings that he has cultivated alone without good association or guidance from senior ISKCON devotees.

 

He really isn't worth all the attention that he is getting on this forum, as he is just an ISKCON outsiders who enjoyes agitating and irritating people with his sleepervadi nonsense.

 

The best thing to do at this point is just ignore Gauragopal das and let him have his fall-from-goloka fantasy if that is what floats his little boat.

[Sarva gattah]

 

:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(102,102,102) 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: rgb(102,102,102) 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(102,102,102) 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(102,102,102) 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Srila Prabhupada- "It is the living entity’s constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krsna because he is the marginal energy of Krsna and a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Krsna (like the Sun and the fire [ANOLOGY ONLY]) has three varieties of energy"

 

Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.108-109

 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<?xml:namespace prefix = o />

 

 

Quote:

<TABLE class=MsoNormalTable style="WIDTH: 100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(102,102,102) 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.25in; BORDER-TOP: rgb(102,102,102) 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0.25in; BACKGROUND: rgb(224,224,224) 0% 50%; PADDING-BOTTOM: 4.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(102,102,102) 1pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 4.5pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(102,102,102) 1pt solid; moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial">There are only two types of living beings, Visnu tattva and Jiva Tattva.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

The living entity is the marginal potency of the Lord known as the jiva-tattva, that is 'eternally established' in their full potential as nitya siddha in an eternal loving relationship with Krishna in Goloka, or in a perpetual loving servitor relationship with His Vishnu-tattva expansions in the Vaikunthas.

However, being the individual living entities ,or marginal potencies of the Lord, also means they all have a choice, and can also enter the material creation or mahat-tattva if they choose, as their nitya-baddha secondary conscious condition.

It is there in the material creation, the living entities are covered by the mahat-tattva's material energy however, the living entities are not a product of matter, they only are covered by matter in the form of ethereal and biological bodily containers provided by Maha-Vishnu

The living entities can therefore use their free will to choose and remain under the dominion of the Cit Sakti as the endless nitya siddha servant of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>. This is the living entities eternal constitutional position.

The living entities can also choose to come under the influence of the Maya Sakti, manifesting or creating their own reality based on their imagination and dreams simply by the power of selfish ‘thought’ This temporary non Krishna conscious circumstance is called the nitya baddha jiva fallen condition of consciousness.

The living entity in this nitya-baddha condition can only be covered by Maya's s'akti or material vessels within the mahat-tattva.

The jiva tatastha NEVER starts out as nitya baddha, such a nonsense uneducated understanding, claiming the nitya-baddha jiva is like a child of a king who was born in a foreign land and has never been with his Father after being born, is from the 'impersonal Brahmajyoti-origins camp'.

Such an impersonal understanding denies the living entities eternal presents in Goloka. Such ideas mentioned above do not comprehend that our temporary presents in the mahat-tattva as nitya-baddha, is originally generated by the living entities self centered 'thoughts of imagination and the desire to be a god instead of serving God or <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>'

In this way we all only think, imagine or 'dream' we are fallen, when in actual fact, our eternal nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body always remains perpetually established in Goloka or Vaikuntha, bounded by the 'eternal presents of Krishna Lila'

In fact constantly posting threads that we originated from Goloka can only cause many to become confused, frustrated, angry, and offensive because they cannot prove that Prabhupada did not say we all originally came down from Vaikuntha – which they will never prove because the fact is, our eternal home IS Goloka and always has been.

Others, on the other hand cannot agree with us because it would be going against the teachings of their guru maharaja. Even if they contemplated the fact that all jiva souls, not only originate from Goloka, but are always there in Goloka, even if they are presently visualising (dreaming) a world of their own in the mahat-tattva, then such followers would be contradicting the teachings of their Guru. Such Guru’s like Narayana Maharaj or Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaja are always telling them the fallacy that they have originate from the impersonal Brahmajyoti and that they have NEVER been to Goloka or Vaikuntha.

It is because their guru maharaj tells them they have originated from the impersonal Brahmajyoti, based on their interpretation of previous Acharyas and their often dubious translations from Sanskrit and Bengali into English, they have convinced themselves and their followers of an Impersonal origin. Srila Prabhupada rejected such impersonal ideas because his teachings clearly tell us, we have all came down from Goloka some millions of years ago.

So the conclusion is ALWAYS, instead of arguing, just get on with the preaching message of Lord Caitanya, and go on street Sankirtan every few days. Chant Hare Krishna and give out Prabhupada’s books.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

This Gauragopal das from Australia does not speak for the majority of disciples of Srila Prabhupada, Srila Prabhupada or most of the ISKCON devotees.

 

He is a renegade thinker with some serious misunderstandings that he has cultivated alone without good association or guidance from senior ISKCON devotees.

 

He really isn't worth all the attention that he is getting on this forum, as he is just an ISKCON outsiders who enjoyes agitating and irritating people with his sleepervadi nonsense.

 

The best thing to do at this point is just ignore Gauragopal das and let him have his fall-from-goloka fantasy if that is what floats his little boat.

[Sarva gattah]

To constantly post threads that we originated from Goloka, ONLY causes the less devotional and intelligent to become confused, frustrated, angry, fault finding, by abusing so many devotees like Drutakarma dasa, Ramai Swami and now Gaura Gopala dasa in their search to find out the source of all this. Who next on your hit list? Jayadvaita Swami?

 

Which is ALL really coming from the teachings of Srila Prabhupada

Keep guessing

The impersonal origin believers who foolishly claim we haven’t been to Goloka, Guruvani, Beggar, Shakti fan, etc cannot prove that Prabhupada did not say we all originally came down from Vaikuntha – which they will never prove because the fact is, our eternal home IS Goloka and always has been. This is the basic teachings of ISKCON as found in the book, ‘Our Original position’

It is because their guru maharaj's tells them they have originated from the impersonal Brahmajyoti AND HAVE NEVER BEEN TO VAIKUNTHA, based on their interpretation of previous Acharyas and their often dubious translations from Sanskrit and Bengali into English, they have convinced themselves and their followers of an Impersonal origin.

Srila Prabhupada rejected their nonsense impersonal ideas because his teachings clearly tell us, we have all came down from Goloka some millions of years ago.