A matter of mutal respect and tolerance.

[theist]

Here is an idea. On this board and in the larger Vaisnava world body we have disciples and sudents of several different gurus and sometimes they may not see everything exactly ther same.

 

This is a simple fact that people are going to have to tolerate and live with because it ain't gonna change. That is just how it is.

 

To insist that another is wrong based on the words of your guru is not our position. For one disciple of one guru to forcably try to instruct the disciple of another's guru is rude and out of place. It is tantamount to demanding that that person accept you as their siksa guru and no one has the right to demand that of another.

 

Of course we can express the differences we see and choose to make known which one we ourselves accept but that is not placing any demand on another.

 

This arguing perpetually, which always results in name calling insults, is on the lower rungs of the kanistha-adhikari platform.

 

Time for us to mature and make progress to madhyam level.

 

Our fight is with the atheists and others that are dragging the earth planet into hell.

[Sarva gattah]

Points taken, very nicely explained in a humble Krishna conscious view

[mahak]

very good advice, because gurus are one, it is the disciples who struggle.

[Redsox]

I wonder what God thinks of these disputes.

[Inedible]

As a new person here, I find the disputes make the whole site seem unwelcoming. My plan was to learn more about Hinduism and Yoga by coming here.

[Redsox]

 

As a new person here, I find the disputes make the whole site seem unwelcoming. My plan was to learn more about Hinduism and Yoga by coming here.

 

It makes me question the authenticity of any of these ideas in vaishnavism.

[theist]

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by Inedible

As a new person here, I find the disputes make the whole site seem unwelcoming. My plan was to learn more about Hinduism and Yoga by coming here.

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

 

Red Sox:It makes me question the authenticity of any of these ideas in vaishnavism.

And here is the fruit of all the squabbling. The real tradgedy. We all will be held responsible for our words as well as our deeds.

 

Krsna means the All-Attractive Person to the vaisnava. And it is through this beauty that Krsna draws all living beings to Him. By all the disputes and childish behavior among ourselves we are getting in the way of new people getting a glimpse of that beauty. This means we are not vaisnavas in spite of our beads, shaved heads, dhotis and rituals. Our behavior exposes us as obstructionists to the mission of all real Vaisnavas which is to expose others to the beauty of Krsna.

 

Let's change the tone and make AF a welcoming place for new souls which is in line with the desire JNdas no doubt had we he set this site up.

 

Please forgive me for all my past mistakes and feel free to call me on the future ones I will no doubt commit due to my deep seated bad habits.

 

Hare Krsna

[Guruvani]

 

It makes me question the authenticity of any of these ideas in vaishnavism.

 

sounds to me like someone looking for an excuse to denigrate the Vaishnava theology based upon the conduct of some pseudo-Vaishnavas.

 

If you want an excuse to denigrate Vaishnavism, then there will be plenty of excuses you can find by holding Vaishnavism culpable for the derelict conduct of aspiring devotees who have yet to come up to the standard.

[Beggar]

 

To insist that another is wrong based on the words of your guru is not our position. For one disciple of one guru to forcably try to instruct the disciple of another's guru is rude and out of place. It is tantamount to demanding that that person accept you as their siksa guru and no one has the right to demand that of another.

 

Most of the regular posters on Spiritual Discussions believe that they are followers of Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami even if they are affiliated with a non-ISKCON siska guru. Of course sometimes there are exceptions but at least this is generally true. Now within the camp who only accept Prabhupada there are also many sub-camps such as Rtviks, DVDites, Ramai Swami followers, Prominent linkests and so on. The question is, in a "Tower of Babel" environment how we can "express the differences we see and choose to make known which one we ourselves accept but that is not placing any demand on another?" Theorectically it sounds easy but you have a situation where some believe that their guru is offended just by the very existence of the anti-party. Case in point - The Ramai Swami followers and other Prabhupada-onlyites believe that those who have taken siksa from Srila Sridhar Maharaj have disobeyed Srila Prabhupada's orders and thereby are offenders. But it goes even further, they also believe that those who believe that the jiva originates from the tatastha shakti are impersonalists. They constantly make this allegation without feeling the responsibility of giving any reason or logic for such an idea. How is one supposed to deal with this? In other words if ones guru or siksa guru is not attacked ad hominem but their conceptions are attacked, how do you expect them to react? Now from an objective viewpoint the Sridhar Maharaj and Narayana Maharaj followers do something that also drives the Prabhupada-onlyites crazy. They view Srila Prabhupada's teaches through the prism of their siksa guru's (or diksa gurus) teachings and they (we) claim that this is the proper vision. Here you have a classic religious schism, on top of all the back and forth of "you are an offender to my guru". Since most of us have a western secular education with it's supposed objectivity an liberal open-mindedness you would think that we can get beyond all these things, but perhaps this kind of conflict is built into the system itself. After all the easiest way to avoid conflict is get rid of all the varieties that inherently clash. We could just preach that "it's all one". Maybe that's one of the major impetuses for such impersonalism? But being attracted somewhat to Gaudiya Vaisnavism none of us will accept becoming impersonalists.

[Redsox]

Judge me, will you?

Go right ahead.

[Redsox]

 

Krsna means the All-Attractive Person to the vaisnava. And it is through this beauty that Krsna draws all living beings to Him ... the mission of all real Vaisnavas... is to expose others to the beauty of Krsna.

 

Let's change the tone... welcoming place for new souls which is in line with the desire JNdas no doubt had we he set this site up.

 

Please forgive me for all my past mistakes and feel free to call me on the future ones I will no doubt commit due to my deep seated bad habits.

 

Hare Krsna

 

Thank you for your kind words. Hare krsna.

[Guruvani]

 

Judge me, will you?

Go right ahead.

 

I don't have to judge you.

You have already told how you feel.

You have explained your mentality in your own words.

 

I haven't judged.

I have simply responded to your own statements.

 

I have plenty of gripes with the situation of the KC movement and even some of the things Srila Prabhupada said, but that will never ruin my appreciation of the ideals of Vaishnavism, even if the spiritual master says things that I personally don't appreciate.

[Sarva gattah]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(102,102,102) 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: rgb(102,102,102) 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(102,102,102) 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(102,102,102) 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Inedible

As a new person here, I find the disputes make the whole site seem unwelcoming. My plan was to learn more about Hinduism and Yoga by coming here.

 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

 

Quote:And here is the fruit of all the squabbling. The real tragedy. We all will be held responsible for our words as well as our deeds.

 

 

May Krishna and his gentle humble caring devotees have mercy on all those souls who want a simplistic way back home back to Krishna.

 

In this age of hypocrisy and quarrel the only way of deliverance is the congregational chanting of the Hare Krishna mantra in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<st1:place w:st="on">Temple</st1:place></st1:City>, in the home and on the streets of all Cities and Towns all over the world

[Beggar]

 

May Krishna and his gentle humble caring devotees have mercy on all those souls who want a simplistic way back home back to Krishna.

sim·plis·tic –adjective <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td valign="top">characterized by extreme simplism; oversimplified: a simplistic notion of good and bad. </td></tr></tbody></table>

<hr class="ety">[Origin: 1855–60; simple + -istic]

 

—Related formssim·plis·ti·cal·ly, adverb

 

 

<!-- google_ad_section_end(name=def) --> <cite>Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

 

</cite>Sounds like a Freudian slip. Yes, beginners will need a simple introductory approach to Krsna Consciousness. But Srila Prabhupada's 1966 Caitanya Caritamrta classes in N.Y. were very complex. There is the letter where Prabhupada tell Satsvarupa Prabhu that it is good that you told them to chant Hare Krsna but you must tell them about the process. Part of the process is the proper understanding of devotional conclusions or siddhanta.

[cbrahma]

 

sounds to me like someone looking for an excuse to denigrate the Vaishnava theology based upon the conduct of some pseudo-Vaishnavas.

 

If you want an excuse to denigrate Vaishnavism, then there will be plenty of excuses you can find by holding Vaishnavism culpable for the derelict conduct of aspiring devotees who have yet to come up to the standard.

In-fighting and squabbling accomplishes the opposite of preaching - Prabhupada admonished against it precisely because of what RedSox complained about. It gives Vaisnavism a bad name. Look at the damage ISKCON caused in its name.

[Kulapavana]

 

Let's change the tone and make AF a welcoming place for new souls which is in line with the desire JNdas no doubt had we he set this site up.

 

Please forgive me for all my past mistakes and feel free to call me on the future ones I will no doubt commit due to my deep seated bad habits.

 

Hare Krsna

 

Haribol!

 

I agree, this is very much needed here and now. We need to move away from this antagonistic, negative, and sectarian way of thinking and presenting our beliefs. This approach is unfortunately very deeply ingrained in our movement.